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Posts: 96

lawstyle

Prospect

Joined: Dec, 2007

Posts: 291

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 5:31 PM ET #51

Quote Originally Posted by tsw:

Denver and Utah will play as hard as they can every night,

yea man, its true. sometimes they just don't play well... doesn't mean they aren't trying

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krwood82

Veteran

Joined: Oct, 2007

Posts: 4606

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 5:37 PM ET #52

Quote Originally Posted by tsw:

Denver and Utah will play as hard as they can every night,

Welcome

I agree...these guys dont always come to play. This is a job for these guys and just like us...somedays they want to work and some days they dont...its only natural

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takethedog70

Veteran

Joined: Jun, 2007

Posts: 1151

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 5:44 PM ET #53

[Quote: Originally Posted by lawstyle]

yea man, its true. sometimes they just don't play well... doesn't mean they aren't trying
[/Quote

Law,

I have to disagree, you are right just because a team plays poorly does not mean they are not trying, however it is not possible for teams to play hard every night 82 games a year.

These guys have a job, it may be a dream job to us, but it is still their job, to play in the NBA. Sometimes due to family, business, or a variety of other distractions players are not capable of giving max effort.They also have ALOT more distractions then we do in the real world. Not to mention sometimes they just don't get 100% up for a game just like we don't work our 100% hardest at work everyday. Hell have you ever seen how many people post on covers all day mon-fri @ between 7am-pm PT? Alot of them are at work

Some great handicappers have an uncanny ability to read when teams are going to give less then a max effort. I sadly am not one of those guys

But I have to agree with TSW 100% effort all the time is impossible.

Good luck

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lawstyle

Prospect

Joined: Dec, 2007

Posts: 291

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 5:57 PM ET #54

Quote Originally Posted by takethedog70:

Quote Originally Posted by lawstyle:

yea man, its true. sometimes they just don't play well... doesn't mean they aren't trying
[/Quote

Law,

I have to disagree, you are right just because a team plays poorly does not mean they are not trying, however it is not possible for teams to play hard every night 82 games a year.

These guys have a job, it may be a dream job to us, but it is still their job, to play in the NBA. Sometimes due to family, business, or a variety of other distractions players are not capable of giving max effort.They also have ALOT more distractions then we do in the real world. Not to mention sometimes they just don't get 100% up for a game just like we don't work our 100% hardest at work everyday. Hell have you ever seen how many people post on covers all day mon-fri @ between 7am-pm PT? Alot of them are at work

Some great handicappers have an uncanny ability to read when teams are going to give less then a max effort. I sadly am not one of those guys

But I have to agree with TSW 100% effort all the time is impossible.

Good luck

I've never seen a player miss a shot because they didn't care if it went in or not. I think in the NBA, if a guy takes a shot, it going in does not depend on whether or not they are distracted by their family problems or if they are not in the mood to "work" that day. Maybe they play poor defense, but that's just cause they are bad at defense. Good defensive players never play bad defense, ever, simply because they are bored of basketball that day, or their mind is on something else. I've never seen a team NOT try to make a shot, or NOT try to play good defense. Sometimes the bounces aren't going their way, or the offense simply owns their defense. I played sports very competively and I've never seen a player on my team or an opposing team give up or not try their best, and we weren't even being paid! We want to win, and so do those guys.

0

Quote Originally Posted by takethedog70:

Quote Originally Posted by lawstyle:

yea man, its true. sometimes they just don't play well... doesn't mean they aren't trying
[/Quote

Law,

I have to disagree, you are right just because a team plays poorly does not mean they are not trying, however it is not possible for teams to play hard every night 82 games a year.

These guys have a job, it may be a dream job to us, but it is still their job, to play in the NBA. Sometimes due to family, business, or a variety of other distractions players are not capable of giving max effort.They also have ALOT more distractions then we do in the real world. Not to mention sometimes they just don't get 100% up for a game just like we don't work our 100% hardest at work everyday. Hell have you ever seen how many people post on covers all day mon-fri @ between 7am-pm PT? Alot of them are at work

Some great handicappers have an uncanny ability to read when teams are going to give less then a max effort. I sadly am not one of those guys

But I have to agree with TSW 100% effort all the time is impossible.

Good luck

I've never seen a player miss a shot because they didn't care if it went in or not. I think in the NBA, if a guy takes a shot, it going in does not depend on whether or not they are distracted by their family problems or if they are not in the mood to "work" that day. Maybe they play poor defense, but that's just cause they are bad at defense. Good defensive players never play bad defense, ever, simply because they are bored of basketball that day, or their mind is on something else. I've never seen a team NOT try to make a shot, or NOT try to play good defense. Sometimes the bounces aren't going their way, or the offense simply owns their defense. I played sports very competively and I've never seen a player on my team or an opposing team give up or not try their best, and we weren't even being paid! We want to win, and so do those guys.

tsw

All-Star

Joined: Oct, 2006

Posts: 12676

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 6:04 PM ET #55

thanks dog , that's exactly what i meant by the 3 rolling laughing guys.

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krwood82

Veteran

Joined: Oct, 2007

Posts: 4606

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 6:12 PM ET #56

NY + 3

NY ML +

Dallas -12

Houston -7.5

Denver + 6

Denver ML +?

NCAAB

Texas A&M + 5

Texas A&M ML +

Not the start I was looking for....Lets hope tonight is better............

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takethedog70

Veteran

Joined: Jun, 2007

Posts: 1151

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 6:15 PM ET #57

[Quote: Originally Posted by lawstyle]

I've never seen a player miss a shot because they didn't care if it went in or not. I think in the NBA, if a guy takes a shot, it going in does not depend on whether or not they are distracted by their family problems or if they are not in the mood to "work" that day. Maybe they play poor defense, but that's just cause they are bad at defense. Good defensive players never play bad defense, ever, simply because they are bored of basketball that day, or their mind is on something else. I've never seen a team NOT try to make a shot, or NOT try to play good defense. Sometimes the bounces aren't going their way, or the offense simply owns their defense. I played sports very competively and I've never seen a player on my team or an opposing team give up or not try their best, and we weren't even being paid!"

Quote

Pat riley says all the time "defense is all about effort" "no rebounds no rings " etc etc Guys like dennis rodman who played a decade in the NBA , a guy chuck daly once said "couldn't score ten points if you left him alone in the gym for 24 hours" ONLY played in the NBA because he worked harder then 99% of the other guys ON EVERY REBOUND. The ball did not happen to land in his hands 20 times a game, it did because he went after it 100 times a game with everything he had.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one

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krwood82

Veteran

Joined: Oct, 2007

Posts: 4606

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 6:20 PM ET #58

Quote Originally Posted by takethedog70:

Quote Originally Posted by lawstyle:

I've never seen a player miss a shot because they didn't care if it went in or not. I think in the NBA, if a guy takes a shot, it going in does not depend on whether or not they are distracted by their family problems or if they are not in the mood to "work" that day. Maybe they play poor defense, but that's just cause they are bad at defense. Good defensive players never play bad defense, ever, simply because they are bored of basketball that day, or their mind is on something else. I've never seen a team NOT try to make a shot, or NOT try to play good defense. Sometimes the bounces aren't going their way, or the offense simply owns their defense. I played sports very competively and I've never seen a player on my team or an opposing team give up or not try their best, and we weren't even being paid!"

Quote

Pat riley says all the time "defense is all about effort" "no rebounds no rings " etc etc Guys like dennis rodman who played a decade in the NBA , a guy chuck daly once said "couldn't score ten points if you left him alone in the gym for 24 hours" ONLY played in the NBA because he worked harder then 99% of the other guys ON EVERY REBOUND. The ball did not happen to land in his hands 20 times a game, it did because he went after it 100 times a game with everything he had.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one

I must say I agree with Dog on this one....

By the way nice reference to Rodman....I loved his years in Chicago

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lawstyle

Prospect

Joined: Dec, 2007

Posts: 291

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 6:26 PM ET #59

Quote Originally Posted by takethedog70:

Quote Originally Posted by lawstyle:

I've never seen a player miss a shot because they didn't care if it went in or not. I think in the NBA, if a guy takes a shot, it going in does not depend on whether or not they are distracted by their family problems or if they are not in the mood to "work" that day. Maybe they play poor defense, but that's just cause they are bad at defense. Good defensive players never play bad defense, ever, simply because they are bored of basketball that day, or their mind is on something else. I've never seen a team NOT try to make a shot, or NOT try to play good defense. Sometimes the bounces aren't going their way, or the offense simply owns their defense. I played sports very competively and I've never seen a player on my team or an opposing team give up or not try their best, and we weren't even being paid!"

Quote

Pat riley says all the time "defense is all about effort" "no rebounds no rings " etc etc Guys like dennis rodman who played a decade in the NBA , a guy chuck daly once said "couldn't score ten points if you left him alone in the gym for 24 hours" ONLY played in the NBA because he worked harder then 99% of the other guys ON EVERY REBOUND. The ball did not happen to land in his hands 20 times a game, it did because he went after it 100 times a game with everything he had.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one

Agreed, good defense = effort, but I think this effort stays constant over the course of a season. A good defensive player is good at defense because he plays with effort every game, and a bad defensive player is bad at defense because he doesn't play with effort. Effort is implicit in a players game, and the player never changes. I don't think a guy tries harder in one game then another. TRUE, some guys play with more effort than other guys, but the amount of effort one player gives doesn't change from one game to another in my opinion. At least I have never seen it (except for Ron Artest, he's an exception). I think everything you just said is correct, I'm just trying to clarify my point. Good luck tonight, who you got?

0

Quote Originally Posted by takethedog70:

Quote Originally Posted by lawstyle:

I've never seen a player miss a shot because they didn't care if it went in or not. I think in the NBA, if a guy takes a shot, it going in does not depend on whether or not they are distracted by their family problems or if they are not in the mood to "work" that day. Maybe they play poor defense, but that's just cause they are bad at defense. Good defensive players never play bad defense, ever, simply because they are bored of basketball that day, or their mind is on something else. I've never seen a team NOT try to make a shot, or NOT try to play good defense. Sometimes the bounces aren't going their way, or the offense simply owns their defense. I played sports very competively and I've never seen a player on my team or an opposing team give up or not try their best, and we weren't even being paid!"

Quote

Pat riley says all the time "defense is all about effort" "no rebounds no rings " etc etc Guys like dennis rodman who played a decade in the NBA , a guy chuck daly once said "couldn't score ten points if you left him alone in the gym for 24 hours" ONLY played in the NBA because he worked harder then 99% of the other guys ON EVERY REBOUND. The ball did not happen to land in his hands 20 times a game, it did because he went after it 100 times a game with everything he had.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one

Agreed, good defense = effort, but I think this effort stays constant over the course of a season. A good defensive player is good at defense because he plays with effort every game, and a bad defensive player is bad at defense because he doesn't play with effort. Effort is implicit in a players game, and the player never changes. I don't think a guy tries harder in one game then another. TRUE, some guys play with more effort than other guys, but the amount of effort one player gives doesn't change from one game to another in my opinion. At least I have never seen it (except for Ron Artest, he's an exception). I think everything you just said is correct, I'm just trying to clarify my point. Good luck tonight, who you got?

takethedog70

Veteran

Joined: Jun, 2007

Posts: 1151

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 7:15 PM ET #60

Law,

good luck to you also, I have denver and NYK tonite

my biggest bet is charl/wash over I liked this game and a good friend just bet it also so I hit it hard. hope you are having a profitable week

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WussieMan

Hall of Fame

Joined: May, 2007

Posts: 26467

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 7:19 PM ET #61

So everyone loves denvers huh....

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Rastamayn

Covers Rehab

Joined: Feb, 2008

Posts: 803

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 7:54 PM ET #62

not me Jazz at home

Denver on the road

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MrBator

Legend

Joined: Apr, 2004

Posts: 52428

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 7:56 PM ET #63

Quote Originally Posted by lawstyle:

Bator-
You are correct in saying that it's not a secret that Utah is 'brilliant' at home and Denver is average on the road. Oddsmakers definitely accounted for this and boosted the spread, giving 6 points to a hot team with a lot to play for. I think they want you to take the points. Denver looks better on paper compared to Utah and all signs point to a hard-fought close game that Denver will cover... except that, again, Denver is not great on the road, and Utah is nasty. Betting on Denver is comfortable, which is exactly why I am leaning Utah. How can you fade the hottest home team in the NBA at home against a team 1-3 in its last 4 away games? 6 points is a lot, but I think Vegas wants me to feel safe with Denver. Not gonna fall for it.

The "avenge" factor, in my opinion, is moot. When Melo gets the ball in his hands from beyond the arc tonight, is he going to think "man, they beat us at home a month ago, I better try harder to make this shot!"? Denver and Utah will play as hard as they can every night, and even if they decide that they "really want to win" before the game to avenge a previous loss, that doesn't increase their shooting percentage, or prevent Utah from sinking shots. The avenge factor may matter in games like Football, where willpower translates into physical power which translates into more yards and points and wins, but in basketball, it is a game of skill, not power. It's psychological, and besides dunking the ball harder when they have opportunities and then screaming really loudly after the play, wanting revenge will not help them make their shots any better or worse. Revenge only makes sense in hindsight, when the team won and you can say "yea, they just really wanted revenge on them". How many times has a team lost twice in a row despite trying their best? Sometimes teams are just better than the other team and emotion doesn't play a huge roll.

Good luck man, to you too krwood. I'm only putting a small play on Utah since you guys like the other side so much. Should be a fun game to watch

lawstyle, by all means, do what you have to do. I hope you understand that the players aren't cyborgs.

0

Quote Originally Posted by lawstyle:

Bator-
You are correct in saying that it's not a secret that Utah is 'brilliant' at home and Denver is average on the road. Oddsmakers definitely accounted for this and boosted the spread, giving 6 points to a hot team with a lot to play for. I think they want you to take the points. Denver looks better on paper compared to Utah and all signs point to a hard-fought close game that Denver will cover... except that, again, Denver is not great on the road, and Utah is nasty. Betting on Denver is comfortable, which is exactly why I am leaning Utah. How can you fade the hottest home team in the NBA at home against a team 1-3 in its last 4 away games? 6 points is a lot, but I think Vegas wants me to feel safe with Denver. Not gonna fall for it.

The "avenge" factor, in my opinion, is moot. When Melo gets the ball in his hands from beyond the arc tonight, is he going to think "man, they beat us at home a month ago, I better try harder to make this shot!"? Denver and Utah will play as hard as they can every night, and even if they decide that they "really want to win" before the game to avenge a previous loss, that doesn't increase their shooting percentage, or prevent Utah from sinking shots. The avenge factor may matter in games like Football, where willpower translates into physical power which translates into more yards and points and wins, but in basketball, it is a game of skill, not power. It's psychological, and besides dunking the ball harder when they have opportunities and then screaming really loudly after the play, wanting revenge will not help them make their shots any better or worse. Revenge only makes sense in hindsight, when the team won and you can say "yea, they just really wanted revenge on them". How many times has a team lost twice in a row despite trying their best? Sometimes teams are just better than the other team and emotion doesn't play a huge roll.

Good luck man, to you too krwood. I'm only putting a small play on Utah since you guys like the other side so much. Should be a fun game to watch

lawstyle, by all means, do what you have to do. I hope you understand that the players aren't cyborgs.

lawstyle

Prospect

Joined: Dec, 2007

Posts: 291

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 8:05 PM ET #64

Quote Originally Posted by MrBator:

lawstyle, by all means, do what you have to do. I hope you understand that the players aren't cyborgs.

haha, this is true

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krwood82

Veteran

Joined: Oct, 2007

Posts: 4606

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 9:20 PM ET #65

Quote Originally Posted by MrBator:

lawstyle, by all means, do what you have to do. I hope you understand that the players aren't cyborgs.

Im not so sure about this statement....have you seen the Lakers lately....

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tuan357

Prospect

Joined: Jan, 2006

Posts: 245

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 9:43 PM ET #66

ORL suckz....... good luck bro

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MrBator

Legend

Joined: Apr, 2004

Posts: 52428

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 10:03 PM ET #67

I need to change my username or something.....this is insanity, Utah shooting 65% and a perfect 7-7 on threes...? Does God just like them more? Do they have 80 points yet?

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MrBator

Legend

Joined: Apr, 2004

Posts: 52428

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 10:05 PM ET #68

I'm sorry, make that 8-8 on threes.

WHAT

THE

FUCK????

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krwood82

Veteran

Joined: Oct, 2007

Posts: 4606

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 10:07 PM ET #69

Quote Originally Posted by MrBator:

I need to change my username or something.....this is insanity, Utah shooting 65% and a perfect 7-7 on threes...? Does God just like them more? Do they have 80 points yet?

I really dont have any clue what the fuck is going on anymore...

I didnt see a blow out coming...thats for sure...

It is going to take one hell of a second half to have any chance to cover this one......

This and the miami play last night are not two of our best....lol

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MrBator

Legend

Joined: Apr, 2004

Posts: 52428

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 10:08 PM ET #70

Why did Deron Williams miss that last 3-point shot? They could have been 9-9 and actually reached 80 points. I think we know who the #9 team will be in the West and I think we know that my big plays combust every time.........

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MrBator

Legend

Joined: Apr, 2004

Posts: 52428

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 10:22 PM ET #71

No excuses here. Utah backers took Utah because they play great at home and Utah is playing GREAT at home. Nuggets' hearts aren't big as a mustard seed.

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krwood82

Veteran

Joined: Oct, 2007

Posts: 4606

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 10:26 PM ET #72

I am struggling to pick winners lately.....

Denver

NY

Texas AM

Not sure what to think anymore......I really dont.....

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krwood82

Veteran

Joined: Oct, 2007

Posts: 4606

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 10:27 PM ET #73

7-0 start to the 3rd.......OMG............

Its over

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Mr_SUREBOL

Veteran

Joined: Nov, 2007

Posts: 1872

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 10:28 PM ET #74

we've still got houston.. hold on.

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lawstyle

Prospect

Joined: Dec, 2007

Posts: 291

Posted: Mar. 8, 2008 - 10:32 PM ET #75

damn Knicks... Portland is a lawstyle killer. Don't worry about it krwood, there's always tomorrow to win it back

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