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    All Forums | Nascar

    NASCAR made this mess, now live with it.

    12 Next Last»
    Raisethis2
    TREE88
    art-frost
    MillerLiteBoy
    Goggles-Pisano
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    12 Next Last»
     
    Raisethis2
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 3:31 PM ET #1


    The results caused by Clint Boyer's deliberate loss of control should be a huge wake up call for NASCAR and it's fans. With just 7 laps to go the evidence suggests that Boyer knew the 39 was going to win (eliminating any chance Truex would get into the chase) and so he deliberately lost control. Dale Earnhart Jr. during his post race interview even said (with an obvious smirk) "he was on the brakes and then the throttle, I don't know what he was doing". 

    Radio transmissions between Boyer and his Spotter indicated the Spotter was informing him of the 39's advantage and the chatter that followed was very suspicious. 

    Huge money runs NASCAR. Huge money changed hands where at least 2 racers destined for the chase failed to get in because of Boyer's curious spin.  Two Drivers not deserving will race for the championship because "the fix was in". 

    The fact that Carl Edwards jumped the start and wasn't penalized was lost in the shjt storm that followed the races completion. 

    I think NASCAR has to fine Boyer and the Spotter. There is telemetry in the cars now that records information like this, if it can be determined that Boyer was "playing with the throttle and brakes" at points on the racetrack where he'd previously not done so they HAVE to come down on him hard. 

    The stands are half empty for a reason. Costs to attend races are way too high in a poor economy. If the integrity of the sport is a casualty of the "chase" set up the chase should be scrapped. 

    I'm betting they sit on their hands. 

      
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    The results caused by Clint Boyer's deliberate loss of control should be a huge wake up call for NASCAR and it's fans. With just 7 laps to go the evidence suggests that Boyer knew the 39 was going to win (eliminating any chance Truex would get into the chase) and so he deliberately lost control. Dale Earnhart Jr. during his post race interview even said (with an obvious smirk) "he was on the brakes and then the throttle, I don't know what he was doing". 

    Radio transmissions between Boyer and his Spotter indicated the Spotter was informing him of the 39's advantage and the chatter that followed was very suspicious. 

    Huge money runs NASCAR. Huge money changed hands where at least 2 racers destined for the chase failed to get in because of Boyer's curious spin.  Two Drivers not deserving will race for the championship because "the fix was in". 

    The fact that Carl Edwards jumped the start and wasn't penalized was lost in the shjt storm that followed the races completion. 

    I think NASCAR has to fine Boyer and the Spotter. There is telemetry in the cars now that records information like this, if it can be determined that Boyer was "playing with the throttle and brakes" at points on the racetrack where he'd previously not done so they HAVE to come down on him hard. 

    The stands are half empty for a reason. Costs to attend races are way too high in a poor economy. If the integrity of the sport is a casualty of the "chase" set up the chase should be scrapped. 

    I'm betting they sit on their hands. 

      
     
    TREE88
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 4:50 PM ET #2

    It's been a hot topic all day on NASCAR Radio. There's more than just the fans upset about it. Sponsors are also voicing there opinions. As far as a Hard penalty goes, I'm not sure how the rule reads about intentionally spinning out. I recall Jr doing it a few years ago and was penalized points after openly admitting to causing a caution. I don't see Bowyer admitting to it though. Either way there will be no changes to who's in and who's out.
    Reply
    It's been a hot topic all day on NASCAR Radio. There's more than just the fans upset about it. Sponsors are also voicing there opinions. As far as a Hard penalty goes, I'm not sure how the rule reads about intentionally spinning out. I recall Jr doing it a few years ago and was penalized points after openly admitting to causing a caution. I don't see Bowyer admitting to it though. Either way there will be no changes to who's in and who's out.
     
    art-frost
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 6:06 PM ET #3

    Great planning by MWR poor execution. I find it funny that these guys know about the in car cams and spotter audio and the best they can come up with is "your arms tired" "is it hot in their itch it."
    Bowyer spun out but sounded like he wanted no part of it. What was he to do not spin out then he's not a team player?
    Vickers is being told to pit under green with four laps to go and says "are you talking to me?" "I don't understand pit right now?"
    It seems like they just didn't care if anybody find out or if they think its normal and goes on all the time.
    After they talk to Truex about making the chase before they cut away Micheal Waltrip comes in and says "you got some great teammates you know that" 
    Reply
    Great planning by MWR poor execution. I find it funny that these guys know about the in car cams and spotter audio and the best they can come up with is "your arms tired" "is it hot in their itch it."
    Bowyer spun out but sounded like he wanted no part of it. What was he to do not spin out then he's not a team player?
    Vickers is being told to pit under green with four laps to go and says "are you talking to me?" "I don't understand pit right now?"
    It seems like they just didn't care if anybody find out or if they think its normal and goes on all the time.
    After they talk to Truex about making the chase before they cut away Micheal Waltrip comes in and says "you got some great teammates you know that" 
     
    MillerLiteBoy
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 7:19 PM ET #4

    Nascar will come down hard on MWR? do I think chase drivers change? Nope. Can they make it where Bowyer finishes 12th? Can they take away practice time from MWR teams? Monumentous fines? Suspensions? Something will be done for sure
    Reply
    Nascar will come down hard on MWR? do I think chase drivers change? Nope. Can they make it where Bowyer finishes 12th? Can they take away practice time from MWR teams? Monumentous fines? Suspensions? Something will be done for sure
     
    MillerLiteBoy
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:03 PM ET #5

    AP reporting Truex is out and Newman in as part of penalties to MWR
    Reply
    AP reporting Truex is out and Newman in as part of penalties to MWR
     
    TREE88
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:11 PM ET #6

    Reply
     
    TREE88
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:19 PM ET #7

    $300,000

     

    Reply

    $300,000

     

     
    Goggles-Pisano
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:24 PM ET #8

    Let the circus begin. Bowyer spun but now they opened up themselves to police everything. nothing good becomes of this :-(
    Reply
    Let the circus begin. Bowyer spun but now they opened up themselves to police everything. nothing good becomes of this :-(
     
    stats1
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:26 PM ET #9

    Great move by NASCAR 
    Reply
    Great move by NASCAR 
     
    MillerLiteBoy
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:38 PM ET #10

    They got it right, congrats Nascar
    Reply
    They got it right, congrats Nascar
     
    MillerLiteBoy
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:40 PM ET #11

    Points mean nothing except for truex and bowyer isnt winning this regardless. Norris gone as well indefinitely
    Reply
    Points mean nothing except for truex and bowyer isnt winning this regardless. Norris gone as well indefinitely
     
    clepto
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:40 PM ET #12

    Gordon should be in as well then. What a f ucking joke. I'm done with Nascar for a while. Total F'N joke and moose all around.
    Reply
    Gordon should be in as well then. What a f ucking joke. I'm done with Nascar for a while. Total F'N joke and moose all around.
     
    TREE88
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 8:48 PM ET #13

    I am not suprised at the points penalty to Bowyer which pretty well ruins his chances. I am shocked they penalized Vickers and Truex!

    Reply

    I am not suprised at the points penalty to Bowyer which pretty well ruins his chances. I am shocked they penalized Vickers and Truex!

     
    kouz
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 9:38 PM ET #14

    I agree tree, figured there would be a huge fine & dock some points Never dreamed nascar would change the chasers. Reckon they'll go back to Richmond & redo all those pictures from after the race? Also had to work all weekend-decided to take a break. Congrats to all Edwards backers. Looking forward to Chicagoland discussion.
    Reply
    I agree tree, figured there would be a huge fine & dock some points Never dreamed nascar would change the chasers. Reckon they'll go back to Richmond & redo all those pictures from after the race? Also had to work all weekend-decided to take a break. Congrats to all Edwards backers. Looking forward to Chicagoland discussion.
     
    art-frost
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 9:48 PM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by TREE88:

    I am not suprised at the points penalty to Bowyer which pretty well ruins his chances. I am shocked they penalized Vickers and Truex!

    These points are taken before the chase starts so won't hurt Bowyer that much.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by TREE88:

    I am not suprised at the points penalty to Bowyer which pretty well ruins his chances. I am shocked they penalized Vickers and Truex!

    These points are taken before the chase starts so won't hurt Bowyer that much.
     
    art-frost
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 10:03 PM ET #16

    CORNELIUS, N.C. – Michael Waltrip Racing accepts the penalties issued by NASCAR this evening and plans to move forward in the 2013 season.

    Michael Waltrip, founder and co-owner of MWR:

    “What occurred on the No. 55 radio at the end of Saturday night’s race in Richmond was a split-second decision made by team spotter Ty Norris to bring the No. 55 to pit lane and help a teammate earn a place in the Chase. We regret the decision and its impact. We apologize to NASCAR, our fellow competitors, partners and fans who were disappointed in our actions. We will learn from this and move on. As general manager, Ty Norris has been an integral part of Michael Waltrip Racing since its founding and has my and (co-owner) Rob Kauffman’s full support.”

    No mention of Bowyer spinning out???????????

    Reply

    CORNELIUS, N.C. – Michael Waltrip Racing accepts the penalties issued by NASCAR this evening and plans to move forward in the 2013 season.

    Michael Waltrip, founder and co-owner of MWR:

    “What occurred on the No. 55 radio at the end of Saturday night’s race in Richmond was a split-second decision made by team spotter Ty Norris to bring the No. 55 to pit lane and help a teammate earn a place in the Chase. We regret the decision and its impact. We apologize to NASCAR, our fellow competitors, partners and fans who were disappointed in our actions. We will learn from this and move on. As general manager, Ty Norris has been an integral part of Michael Waltrip Racing since its founding and has my and (co-owner) Rob Kauffman’s full support.”

    No mention of Bowyer spinning out???????????

     
    TREE88
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 10:08 PM ET #17

    Art...

    I think hes tied for last with some other guys.to start the chase which is 15 points behind the leader. 8th on back have the same amount of points I think.

    In reality I guess they all have a shot. Just gonna be tough for them to overcome imo.

    Reply

    Art...

    I think hes tied for last with some other guys.to start the chase which is 15 points behind the leader. 8th on back have the same amount of points I think.

    In reality I guess they all have a shot. Just gonna be tough for them to overcome imo.

     
    TREE88
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 10:11 PM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by art-frost:

    CORNELIUS, N.C. – Michael Waltrip Racing accepts the penalties issued by NASCAR this evening and plans to move forward in the 2013 season.

    Michael Waltrip, founder and co-owner of MWR:

    “What occurred on the No. 55 radio at the end of Saturday night’s race in Richmond was a split-second decision made by team spotter Ty Norris to bring the No. 55 to pit lane and help a teammate earn a place in the Chase. We regret the decision and its impact. We apologize to NASCAR, our fellow competitors, partners and fans who were disappointed in our actions. We will learn from this and move on. As general manager, Ty Norris has been an integral part of Michael Waltrip Racing since its founding and has my and (co-owner) Rob Kauffman’s full support.”

    No mention of Bowyer spinning out???????????

    Lol....Hes dodging them bullets. Press is gonna hammer him with that one.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by art-frost:

    CORNELIUS, N.C. – Michael Waltrip Racing accepts the penalties issued by NASCAR this evening and plans to move forward in the 2013 season.

    Michael Waltrip, founder and co-owner of MWR:

    “What occurred on the No. 55 radio at the end of Saturday night’s race in Richmond was a split-second decision made by team spotter Ty Norris to bring the No. 55 to pit lane and help a teammate earn a place in the Chase. We regret the decision and its impact. We apologize to NASCAR, our fellow competitors, partners and fans who were disappointed in our actions. We will learn from this and move on. As general manager, Ty Norris has been an integral part of Michael Waltrip Racing since its founding and has my and (co-owner) Rob Kauffman’s full support.”

    No mention of Bowyer spinning out???????????

    Lol....Hes dodging them bullets. Press is gonna hammer him with that one.

     
    Raisethis2
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    Posted: Sep. 9, 2013 - 11:08 PM ET #19

    • From Jayski.com

      NASCAR Penalizes MWR following Richmond, Truex out of Chase, Newman in: NASCAR has issued penalties to Michael Waltrip Racing following the sanctioning bodys review of Saturdays race at Richmond International Raceway. MWR was found to have violated Section 12-4 (Actions detrimental to stock car racing). As a result, MWRs three teams in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series (#15, #55, #56) have been penalized with the loss of 50 championship driver and 50 championship owner points, respectively.

      These point penalties are assessed following the seasons 26th regular season race and not after the seeding for the Chase for the NASCAR Sprint Cup. Therefore, the point total for the #56 car driven by Martin Truex Jr. is reduced to 691, putting him in 17th position and eliminating him from the second Wild Card berth for the Chase field. Ryan Newman, driver of the #39 car, now moves up into the Chase as the second Wild Card participant.
      NASCAR has also fined the MWR organization $300,000 and indefinitely suspended Ty Norris, MWR Executive Vice President/General Manager and spotter for the #55 car, for violating Section 12-4. The three crew chiefs  Brian Pattie (#15), Scott Miller (#55) and Chad Johnston (#56)  have all been placed on NASCAR probation until Dec. 31.
      Based upon our review of Saturday nights race at Richmond, it is our determination that the MWR organization attempted to manipulate the outcome of the race, said Robin Pemberton, NASCAR vice president of competition. As the sports sanctioning body, it is our responsibility to ensure there is a fair and level playing field for all of our competitors and this action today reflects our commitment to that.(NASCAR)(9-9-2013)

    • 2013 Sprint Cup Driver Championship Points Standings [REVISED]:
      [after Richmond, race 26 of 36]
      1) #99-Carl Edwards [2 wins], 842
      2) #48-Jimmie Johnson [4 wins], 841, -1
      3) #29-Kevin Harvick [2 wins], 828, -14
      4) #18-Kyle Busch [4 wins], 811, -31
      5) #20-Matt Kenseth [5 wins], 807, -35
      6) #88-Dale Earnhardt Jr., 781, -61
      7) #15-Clint Bowyer, 779 [was 829], -63
      8)#78-Kurt Busch, 762, -80
      9) #16-Greg Biffle [1 win], 759, -83
      10) #22-Joey Logano [1 win], 751, -91
      WC1) #5-Kasey Kahne [2 wins], 14th in pts
      WC2) #39-Ryan Newman [1 win], 12th in pts (moved into 12th and Chase after penaty to #56)
      was WC2) #56-Martin Truex Jr. [1 win], now 17th in pts and drops out of Chase
      (Truex was tied in pts with #39-Newman, tiebreaker was Truex having a 2nd place finish until the penalty)
      2012 Chase drivers who missed the 2013 Chase
      #24-Jeff Gordon, 11th in points (1 pt out of 10th)
      #2-Brad Keselowski, 16th in points (31 pts out of 10th)
      #56-Martin Truex Jr, from 12th to 17th in pts with penalty and out of the Chase.
      #14-Tony Stewart [1 win], 23rd [will miss rest of season](-157)
      #11-Denny Hamlin, 26th [missed 4 races with injury](-266)
      Drivers who were not in the 2012 Chase: #99-Edwards, #18-Busch, #78-Busch, #22-Logano.
      See drivers championship points standings [NOT: revised yet] on the Unofficial Drivers Points Standings (pdf).(9-7/9-2013)

    Reply
    • From Jayski.com

      NASCAR Penalizes MWR following Richmond, Truex out of Chase, Newman in: NASCAR has issued penalties to Michael Waltrip Racing following the sanctioning bodys review of Saturdays race at Richmond International Raceway. MWR was found to have violated Section 12-4 (Actions detrimental to stock car racing). As a result, MWRs three teams in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series (#15, #55, #56) have been penalized with the loss of 50 championship driver and 50 championship owner points, respectively.

      These point penalties are assessed following the seasons 26th regular season race and not after the seeding for the Chase for the NASCAR Sprint Cup. Therefore, the point total for the #56 car driven by Martin Truex Jr. is reduced to 691, putting him in 17th position and eliminating him from the second Wild Card berth for the Chase field. Ryan Newman, driver of the #39 car, now moves up into the Chase as the second Wild Card participant.
      NASCAR has also fined the MWR organization $300,000 and indefinitely suspended Ty Norris, MWR Executive Vice President/General Manager and spotter for the #55 car, for violating Section 12-4. The three crew chiefs  Brian Pattie (#15), Scott Miller (#55) and Chad Johnston (#56)  have all been placed on NASCAR probation until Dec. 31.
      Based upon our review of Saturday nights race at Richmond, it is our determination that the MWR organization attempted to manipulate the outcome of the race, said Robin Pemberton, NASCAR vice president of competition. As the sports sanctioning body, it is our responsibility to ensure there is a fair and level playing field for all of our competitors and this action today reflects our commitment to that.(NASCAR)(9-9-2013)

    • 2013 Sprint Cup Driver Championship Points Standings [REVISED]:
      [after Richmond, race 26 of 36]
      1) #99-Carl Edwards [2 wins], 842
      2) #48-Jimmie Johnson [4 wins], 841, -1
      3) #29-Kevin Harvick [2 wins], 828, -14
      4) #18-Kyle Busch [4 wins], 811, -31
      5) #20-Matt Kenseth [5 wins], 807, -35
      6) #88-Dale Earnhardt Jr., 781, -61
      7) #15-Clint Bowyer, 779 [was 829], -63
      8)#78-Kurt Busch, 762, -80
      9) #16-Greg Biffle [1 win], 759, -83
      10) #22-Joey Logano [1 win], 751, -91
      WC1) #5-Kasey Kahne [2 wins], 14th in pts
      WC2) #39-Ryan Newman [1 win], 12th in pts (moved into 12th and Chase after penaty to #56)
      was WC2) #56-Martin Truex Jr. [1 win], now 17th in pts and drops out of Chase
      (Truex was tied in pts with #39-Newman, tiebreaker was Truex having a 2nd place finish until the penalty)
      2012 Chase drivers who missed the 2013 Chase
      #24-Jeff Gordon, 11th in points (1 pt out of 10th)
      #2-Brad Keselowski, 16th in points (31 pts out of 10th)
      #56-Martin Truex Jr, from 12th to 17th in pts with penalty and out of the Chase.
      #14-Tony Stewart [1 win], 23rd [will miss rest of season](-157)
      #11-Denny Hamlin, 26th [missed 4 races with injury](-266)
      Drivers who were not in the 2012 Chase: #99-Edwards, #18-Busch, #78-Busch, #22-Logano.
      See drivers championship points standings [NOT: revised yet] on the Unofficial Drivers Points Standings (pdf).(9-7/9-2013)

     
    TREE88
    TREE88
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    Posts: 20749
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 8:24 AM ET #20

    https://sports.yahoo.com/news/newman-replaces-truex-nascar-chase-071356100--nascar.html

     

    Pretty good article.

    I've been on Joeys case for being let in but in reality he is just a victim of circumstance. The intent was to make sure Gordon was knocked outside the top 10  which in turn helped Truex according to the article.

    How these teams can know the exact positions and what needed to be done at the end of the race to manipulate the outcome is unreal to me. Talk about being on top of their game.

     

    .

    Reply

    https://sports.yahoo.com/news/newman-replaces-truex-nascar-chase-071356100--nascar.html

     

    Pretty good article.

    I've been on Joeys case for being let in but in reality he is just a victim of circumstance. The intent was to make sure Gordon was knocked outside the top 10  which in turn helped Truex according to the article.

    How these teams can know the exact positions and what needed to be done at the end of the race to manipulate the outcome is unreal to me. Talk about being on top of their game.

     

    .

     
    alangrrbs
    alangrrbs
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    Joined: Aug, 2011
    Posts: 4739
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 3:51 PM ET #21

    Maybe this is just the Formula One fan in me...but why is everyone outraged by this?

    This happens all the time...and honestly, why shouldn't it?  Isn't that what teammates do for each other?  If not, why have teammates.  It's amazing that everyone is on MWR when every major team......and I mean EVERY team has done something like this.  Remember when Paul Menard "spun" last year at Richmond to give Harvick the win?  Teams and drivers do this all the time...the outrage about this one is laughable to me.
    Reply
    Maybe this is just the Formula One fan in me...but why is everyone outraged by this?

    This happens all the time...and honestly, why shouldn't it?  Isn't that what teammates do for each other?  If not, why have teammates.  It's amazing that everyone is on MWR when every major team......and I mean EVERY team has done something like this.  Remember when Paul Menard "spun" last year at Richmond to give Harvick the win?  Teams and drivers do this all the time...the outrage about this one is laughable to me.
     
    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2004
    Posts: 38704
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 5:55 PM ET #22

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerLiteBoy:

    They got it right, congrats Nascar

    Got it right?  Bowyer gets docked 30 points which doesn't mean ANYTHING for him once the chase starts....and he's the one who is at fault (in conjunction with the rest of his team).

    They got it right that Newman gets in and Truex does not.  But Bowyer walks away with pretty much no penalty at all.  Not even close to right.  
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by MillerLiteBoy:

    They got it right, congrats Nascar

    Got it right?  Bowyer gets docked 30 points which doesn't mean ANYTHING for him once the chase starts....and he's the one who is at fault (in conjunction with the rest of his team).

    They got it right that Newman gets in and Truex does not.  But Bowyer walks away with pretty much no penalty at all.  Not even close to right.  
     
    MillerLiteBoy
    MillerLiteBoy
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    Joined: Feb, 2006
    Posts: 1836
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 6:33 PM ET #23

    Well Hutch, I disagree with you. Nascar did what they could without manipulating the sport. Thats why they got it right. How do you fix it without losing all credibility from a race itself? I would love to hear it?
    Reply
    Well Hutch, I disagree with you. Nascar did what they could without manipulating the sport. Thats why they got it right. How do you fix it without losing all credibility from a race itself? I would love to hear it?
     
    MillerLiteBoy
    MillerLiteBoy
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    Posts: 1836
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2013 - 6:34 PM ET #24

    Like your new perspective on Joey Tree!
    Reply
    Like your new perspective on Joey Tree!
     
     
    Goggles-Pisano
    Goggles-Pisano
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    Posts: 2693
    Posted: Sep. 11, 2013 - 5:30 PM ET #25

    NAPA hinting at dropping MWR
    Reply
    NAPA hinting at dropping MWR
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