Mike Trout DL, AGAIN?!?!

@TxRangers

 You know I saw him a few weeks ago strike out with the bases loaded and he never took the bat off his shoulder.I’m like wtf

I find this hilarious!! And my point is proven even stronger. ESPN just had a 5-minute segment on home runs. It showed players hitting home runs that mattered. And the playoffs, World Series, record home runs, you know, Marquee home runs. Funny thing was, I didn't see Mike Trout???? Yet everyone believes Trout is the goat of baseball??? He wasn't on this highlight reel, and he's not going to be. He doesn't have any marquee home runs, all he has is marquee K's. So once again, Mike Trout is the most overrated athlete in any sport, at any level. I can't wait for him to come back, so he can add to his k career list

@TxRangers

 Go to church my man!!!

I am sorry, but no real baseball expert has ever said he is the 'most overrated' at all.

To be on a playoff HR highlight reel, your team has to make the playoffs first.

There are many, many breakdowns on how he is considered great by far more than simply looking at strikeouts.  No one ever claimed he was a Tony Gwynn-type hitter.

I understand what you are saying, in a way.  I know their fans are frustrated.  But many great players had a great career but rarely made the playoffs.

Baseball is a 25 man roster /team..the angels have never had any real pitching or help other than Ohtani and maybe Fletcher during Trout's time with the team.

@Raiders22

 Like I've always said about Trout. You can't be the goat of your sport if you can't win a championship. All other goats in their respected sports have won championships. Brady, Mahomes, mike, LeBron, Gretzky, woods, Nicholas, Messi, Sampras, Federer. Mike Trout isn't the goat of baseball, actually not close to being the goat of baseball? Has anyone thought of this? The Angels don't make the playoffs, major reason, Mike Trout. Over his career, do you people realize how many times this guy has struck out to lose the game for the Angels. It has happened plenty of times. Who struck out for the USA team last year to end the game??? I'll give you one guess?  Trout could very well be the reason the Angels don't win. I know it's a team game. But every sport is a team game. All he does is either hit a meaningless home run against the A's in the middle of June, or he strikes out. I'll say it again. Mike Trout is the most overrated athlete in any sport, at any level. He's not the goat of baseball, I have no idea why people think he is.

And one more little tidbit. You can't be the goat of your sport if you can't stay healthy. If you're not available for your team, how can you be the goat of your sport. He gets hurt every year, and will continue to get hurt every year. And when is career ends, he will have more k's than hits. And that's truly laughable. How can you be the goat of baseball? Yet have more K's than hits in your career. Willie Mays didn't not understand that? Either did Mickey Mantle, Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr, Tony Gwynn, Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens Barry bonds, just to name a few. Actually Trout is a joke. He's not a winner, he doesn't care about winning, he could have left the angels at any time, he's comfortable being in last place. It's going to be hilarious in a few years when he has more k's than hits. It's coming. Just hilarious. 

@TxRangers

 I understand.  That was the knock on Messi until he finally got the WC win.  The knock on LeBron for having to join other greats to get his first cahmpionship.

There are many people that think Marino was, at least at one point, in the discussion.  There are still very many in their sports that did not make the playoffs that often.  

Playing on the WC and on a team that never got the right players to get to the top have hurt his legacy somewhat, for sure.

Yes, the last few years as he has gotten older he has been hurt more.  But if he had quit even before then -- he would still be an all-time great.  

You really have to look at more than just his strikeouts.  The game is somewhat different before.  Even with the pitchers being pulled earlier because they go all out and do not pitch to contact, etc.  With hitters, more emphasis is on generating 'potential' runs at all costs -- no more contact hitting or small ball, etc.

For example:

For his career, Mike Trout's strikeout rate is 22%. Less than a quarter of his at-bats end with a strikeout. Generally speaking, that is right at the "below average" mark per Fangraphs.

However, it is far from the poor or awful metrics that Fangraphs defined (25% and 27.5%, respectively). Strikeout rates are always high in the modern game. For comparison, Ohtani has a 26.9% strikeout rate.

Last year, Patrick Wisdom led baseball with a 34.3% strikeout rate - far worse than Trout's 2022 metric of 27.9%. In fact, he ranked 105th out of players with at least 100 plate appearances.

Additionally, Trout was fifth in baseball with a stunning 176 wRC+, which is a metric that defines how many runs he creates alone. Clearly, he does a lot more than strike out and the battle against Ohtani was more than legendary.

@TxRangers

 But I get where you are coming from.  Because he is truly a generational talent, I would have liked to have seen him play for NYY, BOS, or even LAD.

But, in a way, the Ernie Banks-like situation, or even Trout's 'loyalty' to the Angels I can respect.

Injuries are just the way they are.  Few people doubt Mantle was an all-time great -- they just give him leeway because he 'mistreated' his body.  But a lot of players party and drink -- that, in itself, does not cause injuries. Or, even Griffey, etc.  But with Trout, a lot do not give him leeway on that.

Everyone has their preferences in what they like, prefer, or think a player's attributes and talents should be.

But if the eye-test is not good enough for you alone -- I think if you look at his numbers in detail, you might change your mind.

Very, very few experts will put him outside the all-time elite players.

But I respect your opinion on valuing strikeouts and championships and health more than anything else.

@Raiders22

 I understand what you are saying too. And thank you for keeping this on a mature level. They're a bunch of kids on this site, you're not one of them, it's much appreciated. My final thought. People think Trout is the goat of baseball. He is nowhere near the goat of baseball. That's my problem with him. Great players, have great plays, marquee plays, that is, EXACTLY , what makes them great. Define moments in their career. Willie Mays, the catch, in the World Series something that Trout won't come close to doing for a very small example. Trout doesn't, and will not have marquee, signature plays that defines him. All he does is hit a meaningless home run in July against Seattle. He doesn't care about winning, he could have left the Angels a long time ago. He is content being in last place. Anyways, thanks again for keeping this on a mature level.

And one last tidbit because this is hilarious. When trout's career ends, he will come closer to having 3000 K's,  than hits. And that's hilarious. Look at his numbers. He will be the all-time strikeout King with around 2800. Thanks again for keeping on a mature level

The goat of baseball just died. 3283 hits, 1526 k's 660 hr's. Mike Trout won't sniff these numbers, well, besides the strikeouts. He'll have 1526 strikeouts by next season. Lol. And something else we didn't mention. Mike Trout has only faced two Hall of Fame pictures in his career. And his numbers are terrible against Verlander and Scherzer. His numbers are horrific against Verlander and Max. Trout has faced mediocre pictures his entire career, yet he's still strikes out at a high rate. Frank Thomas faced Hall of Fame pictures on a weekly basis. And look at his numbers. If trout faced Randy johnson, clemons, ryan, seaver, Kevin brown, David cone, Petra Martinez, Billy Wagner, Trevor hoffman, Mario Rivera trout would strike out 400 times a season. And that's hilarious

@TxRangers

 I think he has some signature plays.  It is just that he has none in the playoffs.

I do not know anyone that says he is the GOAT.  But, if there are -- I cannot say that they do not have an argument.  When you consider how advanced the game is now -- especially the pitching -- do you really think Mays and Mantle would be that much better than him if they played today.

I am a numbers guy.  I like to reinforce what my eyes see with the numbers.

I did a very detailed writeup on Brady with the numbers to demonstrate my point.

But someone else has done a fantastic job of writing it up on Trout with the numbers.

If you like I can post it here and you can look over what he wrote.  If not, no problem.  

He has had a very frustrating career because of where he played and what little they did to get him help.  

Think about how many championships Bonds should have had.  Everyone will argue he was one of the best hitters ever -- this point can even be made before steroids.

Every 'great' player cannot be fortunate enough to play on a great team.  There are so many examples of this.

@TxRangers

 Oh.  I disagree with that about the pitchers.  I think there are more 'potential' HoF that he has faced than you think.  But pitching has changed a lot lately.  Fewer innings and fewer wins, etc.  But is that really something that is fairly compared?  I do not know--maybe.

@Raiders22

 If you are a numbers guy? How come trout has almost as many K's as hits facing mediocre pictures. His number suck against the only two Hof pictures he is faced in his career, Verlander and Max. His numbers are hideous against those two guys. How many Hof pictures did Frank Thomas face during his career??? He did a weekly basis. Imagine this, if trout had a two-way span facing these guys. Randy Johnson, Curt schilling, then Pedro Martinez and Clemens, then Maddox and smotlz. Trout would struck out 20 times in that two week period. He strikes out almost that much mediocre pitchers.

@TxRangers

 Let me phrase it this way.  I do not know if you are into 'lists' or not.  But how would you rank him on all-time centerfielders.

I get that you have Mays first -- most people do.  I do as well -- he simply did it at a higher level for a long time.

But who do you seriously list ahead of Trout that you have seen play?

@Raiders22

 Hitting a home run against Seattle in the middle of July is not a signature moment. That doesn't make a player great. Great players, have great moments. No one cares if Marino has 50 touchdown passes in a season, they care about how many super bowls he won. I'm a dolphins fan, I love Marino, but he's not the goat. Tom Brady is

@Raiders22

 I really don't go by Center field, just outfielders in general. But center field, Ken Griffey Jr. I'll take him over trout. Roberto Clemente is another, Barry bonds, Mickey Mantle. I don't have much more time, I have to take care of some business. Thanks again for keeping it on a mature level.

I don't think I can remember a year when he didn't miss significant time. It's just like Kershaw........ as sure as the sun and the moon by July they're back on the DL for this or that injury.  Then you see a guy like Ripkin.  Probably a few nights he wasn't feeling it.  Big difference between injured and hurt.

@Raiders22

 If you like numbers, that's fine. Explain why trout has more strikeouts than hits in the past 4 seasons? And it's only going to get worse. For the rest of his career, he will have more strikeouts than hits for the season. Just like the past 4 seasons. Do you know how many players has struck out seven times in a row, that's amazingly hard to do. It's hard to strike out seven times in a row, it's been done twice, Mike Trout did it. Do you know how hard it is for someone to strike out seven times in a row. That's why it's never done. Anyways, like I said, people think he is the goat, and that's hilarious

@TxRangers

 Certainly, as I said, part of it is how the emphasis in hitting -- and pitching has changed.

But I look at more than just strikeouts.  You have to consider the runs he generates overall, etc.

No one argues that he is not a true 5-tool talent.

But as I mentioned -- this is the trend in baseball due to the emphasis.

For example: 1980 4.8 strikeouts to 9 hits.  Then it trends down to 2018 when it was barely more hits 8.47 hits to 8.44 strikeouts.

Every year the percentage of hits that HRs make up has gone up.  From 10% in 2014 to around 15% now, etc.

This makes it hard to use this one statistic as an isolator statistic for determining greatness to me.  

The game has morphed into emphasizing power pitching versus power hitting.

I do not like it --but it is what it is at this point.