666.....It's "Corporate" now.....the sportsbooks, by and large, exist as a convenience and not as an asset. The "beancounters" (accountants) and consultants could care less about sports betting....The "hold" in a book is minimal.
This is why Cantor Gaming is getting so much negative bad-mouthing from those that have been here...because they are different and because the NGC is allowing Cantor to grow its business. However, unless you have a group with you, it is next to impossible to make the kind of bets, consistently, that the books will let you do. Cantor is run by ex-bond traders who understand risk and know that you must run your business expecting short-term losses to gain long-term profits...and, even more importantly, you can profit greatly in sports betting; contrary to the corporate minds that run most of this town.
Down the road, you might see a return to the gambler vs the books scenario where it could return to the 70's....however, that is going to take the kind of business approach that does not exist out here now (with the exception of Cantor).
parlay....Siegel Suites on Tropicana....
666.....It's "Corporate" now.....the sportsbooks, by and large, exist as a convenience and not as an asset. The "beancounters" (accountants) and consultants could care less about sports betting....The "hold" in a book is minimal.
This is why Cantor Gaming is getting so much negative bad-mouthing from those that have been here...because they are different and because the NGC is allowing Cantor to grow its business. However, unless you have a group with you, it is next to impossible to make the kind of bets, consistently, that the books will let you do. Cantor is run by ex-bond traders who understand risk and know that you must run your business expecting short-term losses to gain long-term profits...and, even more importantly, you can profit greatly in sports betting; contrary to the corporate minds that run most of this town.
Down the road, you might see a return to the gambler vs the books scenario where it could return to the 70's....however, that is going to take the kind of business approach that does not exist out here now (with the exception of Cantor).
im going to try this out for a month, in november of this year. I just took a month off from work and go to vegas . i just need to find a spot to rent for a month...
hey vegas gourmet do you know a spot that i can rent for month thats near the strip or walking distance to a casino..my budget is like 2000 to 2300... thanks in advance
Like VG said, the Siegel Suites is probably your best bet. You get a studio type setup, with a bathroom, kitchen, and a small living room.
They installed the internet a couple years ago, which is free, and they even provide you with free meal tickets for another location in the downtown area. Coin laundry is on site. Just ask for a room that is closer to the front of the building.
They have a location that is closer to the strip across from the Stratosphere, but it's probably not as nice, not that you should be expecting 5 star anyway.
Quote Originally Posted by parlay_time:
im going to try this out for a month, in november of this year. I just took a month off from work and go to vegas . i just need to find a spot to rent for a month...
hey vegas gourmet do you know a spot that i can rent for month thats near the strip or walking distance to a casino..my budget is like 2000 to 2300... thanks in advance
Like VG said, the Siegel Suites is probably your best bet. You get a studio type setup, with a bathroom, kitchen, and a small living room.
They installed the internet a couple years ago, which is free, and they even provide you with free meal tickets for another location in the downtown area. Coin laundry is on site. Just ask for a room that is closer to the front of the building.
They have a location that is closer to the strip across from the Stratosphere, but it's probably not as nice, not that you should be expecting 5 star anyway.
Unless you have enough capital NOT to need a job, you do not have enough to become a professional sports gambler...period.
If you are not capable of making the sportsbooks respond to what you are doing...or what your employees are doing...you cannot make a living a sports gambling.
If you think that you can make a living gambling on sports, you cannot.
Those three assertions are honest and are based upon years of experience in the industry....knowing some who have succeeded and knowing many more who are no longer in this town....and I have been associated with LV since the 70's.
Quote Originally Posted by VegasGourmet:
Dear God...
I do not know why this thread stays alive
Please trust me, I am not "talking down" to anyone...I am only talking to those who think about this subject.
Unless you have enough capital NOT to need a job, you do not have enough to become a professional sports gambler...period.
If you are not capable of making the sportsbooks respond to what you are doing...or what your employees are doing...you cannot make a living a sports gambling.
If you think that you can make a living gambling on sports, you cannot.
Those three assertions are honest and are based upon years of experience in the industry....knowing some who have succeeded and knowing many more who are no longer in this town....and I have been associated with LV since the 70's.
Attempting to make a living at it can be done. But you need to be honest with yourself ahead of time. You will have bad days, weeks & months. Money management is the key to the game...and setting a daily, weekly or monthly goal on what you want to profit has to happen to be successful. Also, knowing which type of wager or sport is your best will always help. I myself, bet smaller during baseball season...and generally on dogs (Not because I don't follow or know enough about it...it's just a harder sport to wager on 1-meatball pitch and a 3-run bomb can change the complexion on any wager) But you will always find my larger wagers on halftime lines of games. (NCAAB, NCAAF, NBA, NFL which I find to be my better sports) If you have a local/book that doesn't offer halftime, you need to find one. IMO it's the easiest way to forge ahead professionally. (Example - Kansas @ Kansas St last week. A blind man could have seen Kansas wasn't up for the game and it made a large wager on Kansas St 2nd half much easier)
Not every gambler in this world sets out to be a millionaire or even make 6 figures. I love gambling, and know I'd rather blow $500 on sports than I would at my local casino playing cards. I may get fucked on a last second buzzer beater, or a team may completely fail to show up. But, I get to handicap the game...I click the "Submit" button on a wager or place the cash down at the window. I don't have to rely on how many people are at the table, the shuffle machine etc...
My only advice, don't chase in a winning/losing streak. If you set your goal for $250 a week stop betting for the week when you hit that number. I don't care if you hit $250 profit on Tuesday and have to wait till the following Monday. Eventually chasing will cost you. Keep in mind, I do HAVE a job...but it's weather related...so when weather is shitty I don't work as often. For me, a good week is $500-750 in profit...and it's what I aim for. That's anywhere from $26-39k in extra income. That's an average income for a typical 9-5 job. (Example, and you can find it in my past thread. I saw SERIOUS value in South Alabama the other day at +475 on the moneyline...I provided my info on why and I hammered it. That was $500+ profit on one game...I then took the next 2days off)
Vegas brings up some valid points, but I humbly disagree. The points are valid if you're trying to make a large income and become wealthy. But lets be honest, most on this site aren't. I tried the moving to Vegas and wager for a living, and had great success in doing so. Rented a room from a couple for $500/month...would nail a bet and pay my rent and bills right away. It wasn't a bad run or failure that made me move back to Washington...it was the fucking HEAT. And I was sick almost the entire time due to going from heat to AC...to heat to AC. Wore me down.
Attempting to make a living at it can be done. But you need to be honest with yourself ahead of time. You will have bad days, weeks & months. Money management is the key to the game...and setting a daily, weekly or monthly goal on what you want to profit has to happen to be successful. Also, knowing which type of wager or sport is your best will always help. I myself, bet smaller during baseball season...and generally on dogs (Not because I don't follow or know enough about it...it's just a harder sport to wager on 1-meatball pitch and a 3-run bomb can change the complexion on any wager) But you will always find my larger wagers on halftime lines of games. (NCAAB, NCAAF, NBA, NFL which I find to be my better sports) If you have a local/book that doesn't offer halftime, you need to find one. IMO it's the easiest way to forge ahead professionally. (Example - Kansas @ Kansas St last week. A blind man could have seen Kansas wasn't up for the game and it made a large wager on Kansas St 2nd half much easier)
Not every gambler in this world sets out to be a millionaire or even make 6 figures. I love gambling, and know I'd rather blow $500 on sports than I would at my local casino playing cards. I may get fucked on a last second buzzer beater, or a team may completely fail to show up. But, I get to handicap the game...I click the "Submit" button on a wager or place the cash down at the window. I don't have to rely on how many people are at the table, the shuffle machine etc...
My only advice, don't chase in a winning/losing streak. If you set your goal for $250 a week stop betting for the week when you hit that number. I don't care if you hit $250 profit on Tuesday and have to wait till the following Monday. Eventually chasing will cost you. Keep in mind, I do HAVE a job...but it's weather related...so when weather is shitty I don't work as often. For me, a good week is $500-750 in profit...and it's what I aim for. That's anywhere from $26-39k in extra income. That's an average income for a typical 9-5 job. (Example, and you can find it in my past thread. I saw SERIOUS value in South Alabama the other day at +475 on the moneyline...I provided my info on why and I hammered it. That was $500+ profit on one game...I then took the next 2days off)
Vegas brings up some valid points, but I humbly disagree. The points are valid if you're trying to make a large income and become wealthy. But lets be honest, most on this site aren't. I tried the moving to Vegas and wager for a living, and had great success in doing so. Rented a room from a couple for $500/month...would nail a bet and pay my rent and bills right away. It wasn't a bad run or failure that made me move back to Washington...it was the fucking HEAT. And I was sick almost the entire time due to going from heat to AC...to heat to AC. Wore me down.
"Making a living" does not...to me....equate to what you would make working at a fast-food joint.
Nor does it need to equate to having a million dollar estate on a golf course....
But, seriously, if you cannot make...at the very, very least...$100K a year (cash) on gambling, then you are not capable of making a living on sports betting as a gambler. "Nailing a bet" and paying your rent and bills ($500) puts you into the "value-menu meal" catagory at MacDonalds as a night out on the town....and, please forgive the analogy...but that does not make it.
Every SHARP in this town that I know is also known to almost every book...they are competitors in the marketplace and exist for each other. If you think that you can make a living gambling and not be at that level, then you cannot make a living gambling.
Everyone who says that they "made a living" did NOT make a living. They, recreationally, got caught up in sports gambling, maybe even made a few bucks, and went back to their former lives.
kbrick....
"Making a living" does not...to me....equate to what you would make working at a fast-food joint.
Nor does it need to equate to having a million dollar estate on a golf course....
But, seriously, if you cannot make...at the very, very least...$100K a year (cash) on gambling, then you are not capable of making a living on sports betting as a gambler. "Nailing a bet" and paying your rent and bills ($500) puts you into the "value-menu meal" catagory at MacDonalds as a night out on the town....and, please forgive the analogy...but that does not make it.
Every SHARP in this town that I know is also known to almost every book...they are competitors in the marketplace and exist for each other. If you think that you can make a living gambling and not be at that level, then you cannot make a living gambling.
Everyone who says that they "made a living" did NOT make a living. They, recreationally, got caught up in sports gambling, maybe even made a few bucks, and went back to their former lives.
VG I have been reading a lot of your posts and it really makes a lot of sense. Since you can't buy more than a half point (if that) you need to move the number, if you have hundreds of thousands of dollars it is possible and is a much smarter way with obviously better odds to get yourself the spread you want than teasing that game needing an additional outcome to come through to get paid.
Basically any serious bet for a pros involve them "teasing" the spread for lack of a better word 1-2 points by betting one way then hammering late. THe logistics require multiple people and anyone making that money can't put that kind of action on in person because the casinos are corporations not gamblers looking for action like your local. Is that a close enough summary?
Do you know of any people who were pros crushing it taking 50-100k a week and then went bust? There is a lot more reasons for losing money or winning bettors tanking than games being "fixed" which is certainly overplayed and doesn't happen anywhere near as much as conspiracy people on here make out as many factors come into favorites not playing with neccessary determination to beat a motivated and capable team by a large margin as spread betting on favorites neccessitates obviously with many losing outright.
If you think a bet is a good bet and therefore a "predictable" game then in turn that game is far more likely to turn out close to how the experts predict and right around the number. Many times the favorite smoking the dog is less likely than the dog winning outright.
Have you seen people get limited immediately and have to drive to 10 casinos? Do casinos always know which runner is which? Would tipping big avoid the problems?
Great last two posts.
VG I have been reading a lot of your posts and it really makes a lot of sense. Since you can't buy more than a half point (if that) you need to move the number, if you have hundreds of thousands of dollars it is possible and is a much smarter way with obviously better odds to get yourself the spread you want than teasing that game needing an additional outcome to come through to get paid.
Basically any serious bet for a pros involve them "teasing" the spread for lack of a better word 1-2 points by betting one way then hammering late. THe logistics require multiple people and anyone making that money can't put that kind of action on in person because the casinos are corporations not gamblers looking for action like your local. Is that a close enough summary?
Do you know of any people who were pros crushing it taking 50-100k a week and then went bust? There is a lot more reasons for losing money or winning bettors tanking than games being "fixed" which is certainly overplayed and doesn't happen anywhere near as much as conspiracy people on here make out as many factors come into favorites not playing with neccessary determination to beat a motivated and capable team by a large margin as spread betting on favorites neccessitates obviously with many losing outright.
If you think a bet is a good bet and therefore a "predictable" game then in turn that game is far more likely to turn out close to how the experts predict and right around the number. Many times the favorite smoking the dog is less likely than the dog winning outright.
Have you seen people get limited immediately and have to drive to 10 casinos? Do casinos always know which runner is which? Would tipping big avoid the problems?
Also what kind of baccarat/craps play gets you the respect to lump down up to 20k on as many college football or basketball games as you want? Obviously it would include having to pay taxes but if you wanted to stand in line on a Saturday and put 20 dimes on your 10 favorite games how much action do they expect on those tables.
I am not surprised those are the games that you mention draw the casino's. I love those two they are the only games I will play and am ever willing to risk the money I would on sports on. I dont like to pick numbers in roulette and the greens come up often if you play it a lot, the dominos and carribean stud poker games pai gaw etc have bad payouts and are like playing slots to me nor do I like poker or 21 where you need to do the mathematically correct thing to not be a charity.
I love to play Baccarat and Craps (as well as horse racing but thats recreational and small stakes) and enjoy nothing more than spending a few hours going on runs in each. Much more fun than capping games. How much do I want to start putting down at each to get enough cred to waltz into the sports book and lump down? If you played 30 hrs a week over a hundred a hand of baccarrat or craps would that be enough?
Also what kind of baccarat/craps play gets you the respect to lump down up to 20k on as many college football or basketball games as you want? Obviously it would include having to pay taxes but if you wanted to stand in line on a Saturday and put 20 dimes on your 10 favorite games how much action do they expect on those tables.
I am not surprised those are the games that you mention draw the casino's. I love those two they are the only games I will play and am ever willing to risk the money I would on sports on. I dont like to pick numbers in roulette and the greens come up often if you play it a lot, the dominos and carribean stud poker games pai gaw etc have bad payouts and are like playing slots to me nor do I like poker or 21 where you need to do the mathematically correct thing to not be a charity.
I love to play Baccarat and Craps (as well as horse racing but thats recreational and small stakes) and enjoy nothing more than spending a few hours going on runs in each. Much more fun than capping games. How much do I want to start putting down at each to get enough cred to waltz into the sports book and lump down? If you played 30 hrs a week over a hundred a hand of baccarrat or craps would that be enough?
"Making a living" does not...to me....equate to what you would make working at a fast-food joint.
Nor does it need to equate to having a million dollar estate on a golf course....
But, seriously, if you cannot make...at the very, very least...$100K a year (cash) on gambling, then you are not capable of making a living on sports betting as a gambler. "Nailing a bet" and paying your rent and bills ($500) puts you into the "value-menu meal" catagory at MacDonalds as a night out on the town....and, please forgive the analogy...but that does not make it.
Every SHARP in this town that I know is also known to almost every book...they are competitors in the marketplace and exist for each other. If you think that you can make a living gambling and not be at that level, then you cannot make a living gambling.
Everyone who says that they "made a living" did NOT make a living. They, recreationally, got caught up in sports gambling, maybe even made a few bucks, and went back to their former lives.
I respect your opinion, but it's all relative to what you consider making a living. If living in Vegas, I would agree $100k would be a great living. My parents live very comfortably here in Washington and make that combined (Neither works fast food)...and cost of living here far surpasses that of Vegas. Your examples are coming from those YOU KNOW...being in the position you are, I would expect you to know many sharps and high rollers where $100k is chump change. But you simply CANNOT state that it can't be done unless you're making $100k cause it's just not true. It's all relative to what you or I consider making a living.
Also, I only used $500 as an example...as that was all I was paying for bills at the time. I never stated $500 was what I was bringing in income wise.
Quote Originally Posted by VegasGourmet:
kbrick....
"Making a living" does not...to me....equate to what you would make working at a fast-food joint.
Nor does it need to equate to having a million dollar estate on a golf course....
But, seriously, if you cannot make...at the very, very least...$100K a year (cash) on gambling, then you are not capable of making a living on sports betting as a gambler. "Nailing a bet" and paying your rent and bills ($500) puts you into the "value-menu meal" catagory at MacDonalds as a night out on the town....and, please forgive the analogy...but that does not make it.
Every SHARP in this town that I know is also known to almost every book...they are competitors in the marketplace and exist for each other. If you think that you can make a living gambling and not be at that level, then you cannot make a living gambling.
Everyone who says that they "made a living" did NOT make a living. They, recreationally, got caught up in sports gambling, maybe even made a few bucks, and went back to their former lives.
I respect your opinion, but it's all relative to what you consider making a living. If living in Vegas, I would agree $100k would be a great living. My parents live very comfortably here in Washington and make that combined (Neither works fast food)...and cost of living here far surpasses that of Vegas. Your examples are coming from those YOU KNOW...being in the position you are, I would expect you to know many sharps and high rollers where $100k is chump change. But you simply CANNOT state that it can't be done unless you're making $100k cause it's just not true. It's all relative to what you or I consider making a living.
Also, I only used $500 as an example...as that was all I was paying for bills at the time. I never stated $500 was what I was bringing in income wise.
I respect your opinion, but it's all relative to what you consider making a living. If living in Vegas, I would agree $100k would be a great living. My parents live very comfortably here in Washington and make that combined (Neither works fast food)...and cost of living here far surpasses that of Vegas. Your examples are coming from those YOU KNOW...being in the position you are, I would expect you to know many sharps and high rollers where $100k is chump change. But you simply CANNOT state that it can't be done unless you're making $100k cause it's just not true. It's all relative to what you or I consider making a living.
Also, I only used $500 as an example...as that was all I was paying for bills at the time. I never stated $500 was what I was bringing in income wise.
Forgive me for jumping in here but, I think we can shift away from personal opinion and relativity with some math.
Can we "make a living" betting sports? That all depends on what our definition of "making a living" is...
Is it worth trying to make a living betting on sports? We can get close to quantitative answer...
If we can't make 15k per year betting sports then we are better off working a minimum wage job. Assuming we bet 400 games per year (averaging around one per day) we would need to bet $550 per game and hit 56%.
Assuming a fairly standard bankroll of 50 bets, we'd need a bank of $27,500. Plus, a years worth of living expenses in savings (15k)... we'd need $42,500 to get started...
SO, if we had $43k, bet a little more than one game per day, and hit 56% THEN we'd still be better off working a full time minimum wage job (benefits).
I think we can shift those numbers (with in reason) and still reach a pretty good conclusion that...
Betting on sports for a living can be done BUT, for a vast majority of people, it isn't worth it.
Quote Originally Posted by KBrick84:
I respect your opinion, but it's all relative to what you consider making a living. If living in Vegas, I would agree $100k would be a great living. My parents live very comfortably here in Washington and make that combined (Neither works fast food)...and cost of living here far surpasses that of Vegas. Your examples are coming from those YOU KNOW...being in the position you are, I would expect you to know many sharps and high rollers where $100k is chump change. But you simply CANNOT state that it can't be done unless you're making $100k cause it's just not true. It's all relative to what you or I consider making a living.
Also, I only used $500 as an example...as that was all I was paying for bills at the time. I never stated $500 was what I was bringing in income wise.
Forgive me for jumping in here but, I think we can shift away from personal opinion and relativity with some math.
Can we "make a living" betting sports? That all depends on what our definition of "making a living" is...
Is it worth trying to make a living betting on sports? We can get close to quantitative answer...
If we can't make 15k per year betting sports then we are better off working a minimum wage job. Assuming we bet 400 games per year (averaging around one per day) we would need to bet $550 per game and hit 56%.
Assuming a fairly standard bankroll of 50 bets, we'd need a bank of $27,500. Plus, a years worth of living expenses in savings (15k)... we'd need $42,500 to get started...
SO, if we had $43k, bet a little more than one game per day, and hit 56% THEN we'd still be better off working a full time minimum wage job (benefits).
I think we can shift those numbers (with in reason) and still reach a pretty good conclusion that...
Betting on sports for a living can be done BUT, for a vast majority of people, it isn't worth it.
Forgive me for jumping in here but, I think we can shift away from personal opinion and relativity with some math.
Can we "make a living" betting sports? That all depends on what our definition of "making a living" is...
Is it worth trying to make a living betting on sports? We can get close to quantitative answer...
If we can't make 15k per year betting sports then we are better off working a minimum wage job. Assuming we bet 400 games per year (averaging around one per day) we would need to bet $550 per game and hit 56%.
Assuming a fairly standard bankroll of 50 bets, we'd need a bank of $27,500. Plus, a years worth of living expenses in savings (15k)... we'd need $42,500 to get started...
SO, if we had $43k, bet a little more than one game per day, and hit 56% THEN we'd still be better off working a full time minimum wage job (benefits).
I think we can shift those numbers (with in reason) and still reach a pretty good conclusion that...
Betting on sports for a living can be done BUT, for a vast majority of people, it isn't worth it.
Exactly The question isn't can it be done, of course it can. Is it worth it for the vast majority...that's the question. Like I said, it depends what you or I classify as "Making A Living" If you can't make $40k or above doing it...it's likely not worth it IMO. I see many people who make $40-50k a year living very comfortably and enjoying life.
Quote Originally Posted by MrGlue:
Forgive me for jumping in here but, I think we can shift away from personal opinion and relativity with some math.
Can we "make a living" betting sports? That all depends on what our definition of "making a living" is...
Is it worth trying to make a living betting on sports? We can get close to quantitative answer...
If we can't make 15k per year betting sports then we are better off working a minimum wage job. Assuming we bet 400 games per year (averaging around one per day) we would need to bet $550 per game and hit 56%.
Assuming a fairly standard bankroll of 50 bets, we'd need a bank of $27,500. Plus, a years worth of living expenses in savings (15k)... we'd need $42,500 to get started...
SO, if we had $43k, bet a little more than one game per day, and hit 56% THEN we'd still be better off working a full time minimum wage job (benefits).
I think we can shift those numbers (with in reason) and still reach a pretty good conclusion that...
Betting on sports for a living can be done BUT, for a vast majority of people, it isn't worth it.
Exactly The question isn't can it be done, of course it can. Is it worth it for the vast majority...that's the question. Like I said, it depends what you or I classify as "Making A Living" If you can't make $40k or above doing it...it's likely not worth it IMO. I see many people who make $40-50k a year living very comfortably and enjoying life.
Brick.....It is more about how much money you are using to achieve that living than it is anything else. WestHam is closer to the truth about "professional gambling"....
It is more about estimation of a correct line, movement of the line, and controlling the spread. None of this can be done, really, at a level that brings in $40-50K per year.
Take the winner of the Pro Football contest at The M this year. He did it with a group of bettors, wagers upwards of $250K on one game, and, as I mentioned earlier, is part of the marketplace...the "buy/sell marketplace"...that is professional sports gambling. He is the more unique pro; he is known to the sportsbook (and has been banned or limited at many others) and does not need runners to hide his wagers. Many pros direct operations from other cities and have runners here for them; some pros prefer to be part of the community....such as Billy Walters....and have a vast network of analysts, consultants and runners moving the line to give him as big an edge as possible.
The Professional ("I make a living at it") sports gambler is a business...plain and simple. The bettor who makes money gambling (at least for the time being) is not...and cannot be. He reacts to the marketplace rather than pro-acts the marketplace; he is subject to the movement created by the two influences....the bookie and the sharp....and, for the most part, he is guessing on value rather than establishing that value for himself.
Glue....Nice input.
Brick.....It is more about how much money you are using to achieve that living than it is anything else. WestHam is closer to the truth about "professional gambling"....
It is more about estimation of a correct line, movement of the line, and controlling the spread. None of this can be done, really, at a level that brings in $40-50K per year.
Take the winner of the Pro Football contest at The M this year. He did it with a group of bettors, wagers upwards of $250K on one game, and, as I mentioned earlier, is part of the marketplace...the "buy/sell marketplace"...that is professional sports gambling. He is the more unique pro; he is known to the sportsbook (and has been banned or limited at many others) and does not need runners to hide his wagers. Many pros direct operations from other cities and have runners here for them; some pros prefer to be part of the community....such as Billy Walters....and have a vast network of analysts, consultants and runners moving the line to give him as big an edge as possible.
The Professional ("I make a living at it") sports gambler is a business...plain and simple. The bettor who makes money gambling (at least for the time being) is not...and cannot be. He reacts to the marketplace rather than pro-acts the marketplace; he is subject to the movement created by the two influences....the bookie and the sharp....and, for the most part, he is guessing on value rather than establishing that value for himself.
Brick.....It is more about how much money you are using to achieve that living than it is anything else. WestHam is closer to the truth about "professional gambling"....
It is more about estimation of a correct line, movement of the line, and controlling the spread. None of this can be done, really, at a level that brings in $40-50K per year.
Take the winner of the Pro Football contest at The M this year. He did it with a group of bettors, wagers upwards of $250K on one game, and, as I mentioned earlier, is part of the marketplace...the "buy/sell marketplace"...that is professional sports gambling. He is the more unique pro; he is known to the sportsbook (and has been banned or limited at many others) and does not need runners to hide his wagers. Many pros direct operations from other cities and have runners here for them; some pros prefer to be part of the community....such as Billy Walters....and have a vast network of analysts, consultants and runners moving the line to give him as big an edge as possible.
The Professional ("I make a living at it") sports gambler is a business...plain and simple. The bettor who makes money gambling (at least for the time being) is not...and cannot be. He reacts to the marketplace rather than pro-acts the marketplace; he is subject to the movement created by the two influences....the bookie and the sharp....and, for the most part, he is guessing on value rather than establishing that value for himself.
100% agree. Being on the correct side of the steam or creating the steam to gain the best line would create a HUGE advantage to doing it as a living. My only argument was that it can be done. What we classify as "Making a living" at it can vary from each gambler to the next. I assume the person that created this thread, isn't someone with the bankroll to aim for 6 or 7 figures or someone who will be wagering enough to "Control the line" as you say. Therefor if the creator is aiming to replace his current income, whatever that may be...it can be done.
Quote Originally Posted by VegasGourmet:
Glue....Nice input.
Brick.....It is more about how much money you are using to achieve that living than it is anything else. WestHam is closer to the truth about "professional gambling"....
It is more about estimation of a correct line, movement of the line, and controlling the spread. None of this can be done, really, at a level that brings in $40-50K per year.
Take the winner of the Pro Football contest at The M this year. He did it with a group of bettors, wagers upwards of $250K on one game, and, as I mentioned earlier, is part of the marketplace...the "buy/sell marketplace"...that is professional sports gambling. He is the more unique pro; he is known to the sportsbook (and has been banned or limited at many others) and does not need runners to hide his wagers. Many pros direct operations from other cities and have runners here for them; some pros prefer to be part of the community....such as Billy Walters....and have a vast network of analysts, consultants and runners moving the line to give him as big an edge as possible.
The Professional ("I make a living at it") sports gambler is a business...plain and simple. The bettor who makes money gambling (at least for the time being) is not...and cannot be. He reacts to the marketplace rather than pro-acts the marketplace; he is subject to the movement created by the two influences....the bookie and the sharp....and, for the most part, he is guessing on value rather than establishing that value for himself.
100% agree. Being on the correct side of the steam or creating the steam to gain the best line would create a HUGE advantage to doing it as a living. My only argument was that it can be done. What we classify as "Making a living" at it can vary from each gambler to the next. I assume the person that created this thread, isn't someone with the bankroll to aim for 6 or 7 figures or someone who will be wagering enough to "Control the line" as you say. Therefor if the creator is aiming to replace his current income, whatever that may be...it can be done.
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