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    All Forums | Investments

    Toll Brothers

    KOAJ
    snakebit1
    PayDaJuice
    tonktime
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    KOAJ
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 9:18 AM ET #1

    Toll Brothers (NYSE:TOL) , the largest US builder of luxury homes and apartments, on Tuesday called for greater government action to help boost demand for homes as it reported its third consecutive quarterly loss.

    The plea for help came as the builder of high-end homes said that buyers were still scarce in most of its markets in the second quarter.

    "We believe Congress should jump-start demand for new homes with an initiative that will bring buyers off the sidelines and into the market, and thereby stop the downward spiral of home prices," said Robert Toll, the company's founder, chairman and chief executive.

    and they are supposed to be the top of the line homebuilder

    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    Toll Brothers (NYSE:TOL) , the largest US builder of luxury homes and apartments, on Tuesday called for greater government action to help boost demand for homes as it reported its third consecutive quarterly loss.

    The plea for help came as the builder of high-end homes said that buyers were still scarce in most of its markets in the second quarter.

    "We believe Congress should jump-start demand for new homes with an initiative that will bring buyers off the sidelines and into the market, and thereby stop the downward spiral of home prices," said Robert Toll, the company's founder, chairman and chief executive.

    and they are supposed to be the top of the line homebuilder

     
    snakebit1
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 9:32 AM ET #2

    This guy is way off.

    I'm a home builder, but build starter homes, low price range.  This product is still moving, though slower than before.  Any changes by congress are not going to produce "high-end" home buyers.  These guys that build high end homes have been killin it for years, and they overbuilt.  No reason for the gov't to bail them out.  I'd rather see the gov't concentrate on gas prices, to help the masses, than concentrate on one struggling sector.  This guy is building the wrong product for today's market, and is asking the gov't to bail him out.  You don't see GM asking the gov't to help them sell SUVs and Trucks.  They see that the demand is not there, and will quit making so many.

    My 2 cents, from a home builder, in a market so slow I have time to surf the net!!

    Reply

    This guy is way off.

    I'm a home builder, but build starter homes, low price range.  This product is still moving, though slower than before.  Any changes by congress are not going to produce "high-end" home buyers.  These guys that build high end homes have been killin it for years, and they overbuilt.  No reason for the gov't to bail them out.  I'd rather see the gov't concentrate on gas prices, to help the masses, than concentrate on one struggling sector.  This guy is building the wrong product for today's market, and is asking the gov't to bail him out.  You don't see GM asking the gov't to help them sell SUVs and Trucks.  They see that the demand is not there, and will quit making so many.

    My 2 cents, from a home builder, in a market so slow I have time to surf the net!!

     
    PayDaJuice
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 9:34 AM ET #3

    Toll Brothers Reports $93.7 Million Loss
    By REUTERS

    Filed at 8:46 a.m. ET

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - Toll Brothers Inc <TOL.N>, the largest U.S. luxury home builder, posted a quarterly net loss on Tuesday, hurt by weakened demand in most markets amid the nation's housing slump, but the results were not as bad as Wall Street had expected.

    The net loss totaled $93.7 million, or 59 cents per share, in the second quarter ended on April 30, compared with a year-earlier profit of $36.7 million, or 22 cents per share.

    Excluding pretax write-downs of $288.1 million, Toll said quarterly profit was 49 cents per share.

    Analysts on average had forecast a loss of 96 cents per share, according to Reuters Estimates.

    Revenue fell 30 percent to $818.8 million, exceeding analysts' estimates of $807.2 million.

    The U.S. housing market has been in a tailspin as demand falls, prospective purchasers find it tougher to obtain financing, foreclosures increase, and builders cut prices.

    "Demand continues to be weak in most markets as our clients worry about selling their existing homes or entering the market before prices stabilize," Chief Executive Robert Toll said in a statement.

    To navigate the downturn, most builders have focused on accumulating cash and reducing debt rather while waiting for opportunities to buy land at a bargain.

    Toll ended the quarter with a record-low net-debt-to-capital ratio of 22.7 percent and more than $2.5 billion of available capital, including $1.23 billion in cash.

    "This liquidity will allow the company to take advantage of opportunities that arise from less financially flexible peers as we move through the downturn," said UBS analyst David Goldberg, who rates Toll a "buy" and calls it his top pick.

    Toll said its backlog at the end of the second quarter fell 50 percent to $2.08 billion.

    The company also said net contracts signed during the quarter, after cancellations, fell 44 percent to 929 homes. In dollar terms, they were down 58 percent at $496.5 million.

    In December, Toll had posted its first quarterly loss in 21 years as a public company.

    Toll shares closed Monday at $20.96 on the New York Stock Exchange. The stock is up about 8 percent so far this year.

    Reply
    Toll Brothers Reports $93.7 Million Loss
    By REUTERS

    Filed at 8:46 a.m. ET

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - Toll Brothers Inc <TOL.N>, the largest U.S. luxury home builder, posted a quarterly net loss on Tuesday, hurt by weakened demand in most markets amid the nation's housing slump, but the results were not as bad as Wall Street had expected.

    The net loss totaled $93.7 million, or 59 cents per share, in the second quarter ended on April 30, compared with a year-earlier profit of $36.7 million, or 22 cents per share.

    Excluding pretax write-downs of $288.1 million, Toll said quarterly profit was 49 cents per share.

    Analysts on average had forecast a loss of 96 cents per share, according to Reuters Estimates.

    Revenue fell 30 percent to $818.8 million, exceeding analysts' estimates of $807.2 million.

    The U.S. housing market has been in a tailspin as demand falls, prospective purchasers find it tougher to obtain financing, foreclosures increase, and builders cut prices.

    "Demand continues to be weak in most markets as our clients worry about selling their existing homes or entering the market before prices stabilize," Chief Executive Robert Toll said in a statement.

    To navigate the downturn, most builders have focused on accumulating cash and reducing debt rather while waiting for opportunities to buy land at a bargain.

    Toll ended the quarter with a record-low net-debt-to-capital ratio of 22.7 percent and more than $2.5 billion of available capital, including $1.23 billion in cash.

    "This liquidity will allow the company to take advantage of opportunities that arise from less financially flexible peers as we move through the downturn," said UBS analyst David Goldberg, who rates Toll a "buy" and calls it his top pick.

    Toll said its backlog at the end of the second quarter fell 50 percent to $2.08 billion.

    The company also said net contracts signed during the quarter, after cancellations, fell 44 percent to 929 homes. In dollar terms, they were down 58 percent at $496.5 million.

    In December, Toll had posted its first quarterly loss in 21 years as a public company.

    Toll shares closed Monday at $20.96 on the New York Stock Exchange. The stock is up about 8 percent so far this year.

     
    tonktime
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 9:35 AM ET #4

    Reply
     
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 9:50 AM ET #5

    "We believe Congress should jump-start demand for new homes with an initiative that will bring buyers off the sidelines and into the market, and thereby stop the downward spiral of home prices,"
    ------------
    my favorite...so when they couldnt build homes fast enough, the market was a good arbiter of prices...now that times are slow, they want an artificial floor

    jerk


    Reply
    "We believe Congress should jump-start demand for new homes with an initiative that will bring buyers off the sidelines and into the market, and thereby stop the downward spiral of home prices,"
    ------------
    my favorite...so when they couldnt build homes fast enough, the market was a good arbiter of prices...now that times are slow, they want an artificial floor

    jerk


     
    snakebit1
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 11:22 AM ET #6

    Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:

    "We believe Congress should jump-start demand for new homes with an initiative that will bring buyers off the sidelines and into the market, and thereby stop the downward spiral of home prices,"
    ------------
    my favorite...so when they couldnt build homes fast enough, the market was a good arbiter of prices...now that times are slow, they want an artificial floor

    jerk


    On a side note, the prices of "high-end" homes have plummeted, while starter homes, which were never inflated to begin with, are near stable.  In some cases, the prices have actually gone up, as these homes tend to follow cost to build trends, rather than blue sky appreciation trends.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:

    "We believe Congress should jump-start demand for new homes with an initiative that will bring buyers off the sidelines and into the market, and thereby stop the downward spiral of home prices,"
    ------------
    my favorite...so when they couldnt build homes fast enough, the market was a good arbiter of prices...now that times are slow, they want an artificial floor

    jerk


    On a side note, the prices of "high-end" homes have plummeted, while starter homes, which were never inflated to begin with, are near stable.  In some cases, the prices have actually gone up, as these homes tend to follow cost to build trends, rather than blue sky appreciation trends.

     
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 12:36 PM ET #7

    snakebit - the mkt is different in missouri, but in NJ you cant get a "starter" home for less than 350k...at least one thats livable

    home prices need to become affordable again

    all you need to do find the bottom is compile a ratio of median income to avg home price...at some point it grew exponentially, leading to arms and interest onlies, etc etc. it neds to get back to a steady rise instead of a rocket ship

    we know how that ended up
    Reply
    snakebit - the mkt is different in missouri, but in NJ you cant get a "starter" home for less than 350k...at least one thats livable

    home prices need to become affordable again

    all you need to do find the bottom is compile a ratio of median income to avg home price...at some point it grew exponentially, leading to arms and interest onlies, etc etc. it neds to get back to a steady rise instead of a rocket ship

    we know how that ended up
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 12:43 PM ET #8


    Amazing how fast capitalists, arrogant and always bitching about the need for government to stay out of their way, become dedicated state socialists whenever their industry contracts.These guys should be laughed out of DC, but of course there are fools who actually believe this tripe.

    Reply

    Amazing how fast capitalists, arrogant and always bitching about the need for government to stay out of their way, become dedicated state socialists whenever their industry contracts.These guys should be laughed out of DC, but of course there are fools who actually believe this tripe.

     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 12:44 PM ET #9

    Meant to say "arrogant" in boom times...

    Reply
    Meant to say "arrogant" in boom times...

     
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 2:46 PM ET #10

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermeer:


    Amazing how fast capitalists, arrogant and always bitching about the need for government to stay out of their way, become dedicated state socialists whenever their industry contracts.These guys should be laughed out of DC, but of course there are fools who actually believe this tripe.



    well it is an election year and since it looks like the socialists errr democrats will be expanding their congressional majority may as well ask for a handout
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Vermeer:


    Amazing how fast capitalists, arrogant and always bitching about the need for government to stay out of their way, become dedicated state socialists whenever their industry contracts.These guys should be laughed out of DC, but of course there are fools who actually believe this tripe.



    well it is an election year and since it looks like the socialists errr democrats will be expanding their congressional majority may as well ask for a handout
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 3:23 PM ET #11

     
      When it comes down to it, there are so many hands out, it is simply a matter of whose ox gets gored.Same trough, different pigs lining up.

     I think this version should be called no fault capitalism. The only loser:the usual suspects, the taxpayer.

    Reply
     
      When it comes down to it, there are so many hands out, it is simply a matter of whose ox gets gored.Same trough, different pigs lining up.

     I think this version should be called no fault capitalism. The only loser:the usual suspects, the taxpayer.

     
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 4:02 PM ET #12

    hopefully not vermeer

    in the end, the banks will lend less, homebuilders will build less...prices will come in another 15% nationwide

    demand doesnt come anywhere close to supply
    Reply
    hopefully not vermeer

    in the end, the banks will lend less, homebuilders will build less...prices will come in another 15% nationwide

    demand doesnt come anywhere close to supply
     
    male escort
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    Posted: Jun. 3, 2008 - 9:01 PM ET #13

    hopefully not vermeer

    in the end, the banks will lend less, homebuilders will build less...prices will come in another 15% nationwide

    demand doesnt come anywhere close to supply

     

    Couldn't agree more.  Hope all is well my friend. 

    I am looking to buy my first house in the winter of 09' ... Somewhere in Chicago or a surrounding suburb...

    Side note 2 blocks east of my $1000 a month appartment a home is for sale for 995,000... 2 stories 4b 3bath, I am not going to list all the specs... People in this forum get the point.  What are these people smoking? 

    Reply

    hopefully not vermeer

    in the end, the banks will lend less, homebuilders will build less...prices will come in another 15% nationwide

    demand doesnt come anywhere close to supply

     

    Couldn't agree more.  Hope all is well my friend. 

    I am looking to buy my first house in the winter of 09' ... Somewhere in Chicago or a surrounding suburb...

    Side note 2 blocks east of my $1000 a month appartment a home is for sale for 995,000... 2 stories 4b 3bath, I am not going to list all the specs... People in this forum get the point.  What are these people smoking? 

     
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Jun. 5, 2008 - 11:16 PM ET #14

    Bail out packages......................
     
    No good.
     
    Short term euphoria for long term horror.
     
    We as a country (USA) are in deep, deep doo-doo.
    Reply
    Bail out packages......................
     
    No good.
     
    Short term euphoria for long term horror.
     
    We as a country (USA) are in deep, deep doo-doo.
     
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Jun. 6, 2008 - 11:36 AM ET #15

    never before has 50% of the demand for a product disappeared overnight...literally

    speculators and people with less than stellar credit are out...until demand meets supply, the demand curve will continue to shift and bring prices in
    Reply
    never before has 50% of the demand for a product disappeared overnight...literally

    speculators and people with less than stellar credit are out...until demand meets supply, the demand curve will continue to shift and bring prices in
     
     
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Jun. 6, 2008 - 11:42 AM ET #16

    Absolute greedy fools were paying 700K for cardboard "McMansions" in Sterling, Va about 3 years ago.
     
    I am shocked that the buuble didn't burst "until" 2007.
     
    This was sheer lunacy, and greed was just running amok.  I have no sympathy for those people who paid prices like that--------they deserve foreclosure and hideous credit.
    Reply
    Absolute greedy fools were paying 700K for cardboard "McMansions" in Sterling, Va about 3 years ago.
     
    I am shocked that the buuble didn't burst "until" 2007.
     
    This was sheer lunacy, and greed was just running amok.  I have no sympathy for those people who paid prices like that--------they deserve foreclosure and hideous credit.
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