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    All Forums | Investments

    September Stock Discussion

    «First Previous 234 ... 567 Next Last»
    LeRinkRat
    Vermeer
    SteelHop
    whereismyhat
    claycourtlesson
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 4311
    Posts: 151
    «First Previous 234 ... 567 Next Last»
     
    LeRinkRat
    LeRinkRat
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    Posted: Sep. 3, 2009 - 12:54 PM ET #26

    Not a trader by nature...Rat, any quick trades before Labor Day weekend, or just sitting tight?
     
    picked up 10k ESLR again early thursday @ 1.59 looking for a day trade. current 1.66 so will see what happens.
     
    following both ETFC and CIT for trades here BUT not cheap enough
     
    and I STILL think LVS is over priced here over $14 BUT everytime the bears short it they get clipped.
    Reply
    Not a trader by nature...Rat, any quick trades before Labor Day weekend, or just sitting tight?
     
    picked up 10k ESLR again early thursday @ 1.59 looking for a day trade. current 1.66 so will see what happens.
     
    following both ETFC and CIT for trades here BUT not cheap enough
     
    and I STILL think LVS is over priced here over $14 BUT everytime the bears short it they get clipped.
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Sep. 3, 2009 - 1:03 PM ET #27

    .
    Reply
    .
     
    SteelHop
    SteelHop
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    Posted: Sep. 3, 2009 - 1:53 PM ET #28

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermeer:

    Food for thought..makes me feel warm and fuzzy

    As a result historic inequality in pay is still prevalent and the neo-Gilded Age tycoons are raking it in. According to the report, a generation ago top execs rarely earned more than thirty to forty times the pay of the average American worker. But now top execs make an average of 319 times more than the typical worker. For the top twenty financial industry execs the divide is even greater -- 436 times more than the average worker in 2008. In the past three years, the top five execs at the twenty US financial firms receiving the most Bailout Bucks took home pay packages worth a staggering $3.2 billion -- an average of $32 million each. In 2008 those cats averaged nearly $14 million each--even though their twenty firms laid off more than 160,000 people since January of that year.


    Vermeer,

    This started in the early 1990's when Congress in their infinite wisedom passed several tax code provisions that made paying executives over a million dollars more onerous.  So companies worked around the system and paid top executives with stock options. Now that that isn't the complete reason but the unintended consequences of that action didn't help.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Vermeer:

    Food for thought..makes me feel warm and fuzzy

    As a result historic inequality in pay is still prevalent and the neo-Gilded Age tycoons are raking it in. According to the report, a generation ago top execs rarely earned more than thirty to forty times the pay of the average American worker. But now top execs make an average of 319 times more than the typical worker. For the top twenty financial industry execs the divide is even greater -- 436 times more than the average worker in 2008. In the past three years, the top five execs at the twenty US financial firms receiving the most Bailout Bucks took home pay packages worth a staggering $3.2 billion -- an average of $32 million each. In 2008 those cats averaged nearly $14 million each--even though their twenty firms laid off more than 160,000 people since January of that year.


    Vermeer,

    This started in the early 1990's when Congress in their infinite wisedom passed several tax code provisions that made paying executives over a million dollars more onerous.  So companies worked around the system and paid top executives with stock options. Now that that isn't the complete reason but the unintended consequences of that action didn't help.
     
    LeRinkRat
    LeRinkRat
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    Posted: Sep. 3, 2009 - 3:54 PM ET #29

    small news item abought ESLR showing off their system at the Deutsche Bank Championship golf tourney near Boston seems to have brought some buying. stock @ 1.69 daily high with half an hour to go. think I will hold overnight and see IF I can get some more run here. stock was WAY oversold after this last months slide.
    Reply
    small news item abought ESLR showing off their system at the Deutsche Bank Championship golf tourney near Boston seems to have brought some buying. stock @ 1.69 daily high with half an hour to go. think I will hold overnight and see IF I can get some more run here. stock was WAY oversold after this last months slide.
     
    whereismyhat
    whereismyhat
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    Posted: Sep. 3, 2009 - 5:48 PM ET #30

    Was up everyone!

    I am still on DRYS as I'm sure WSC is, let's hope it keeps climbing.  As far as solar plays, I just bought some SOLR...what are yall's thoughts?
     


    Reply
    Was up everyone!

    I am still on DRYS as I'm sure WSC is, let's hope it keeps climbing.  As far as solar plays, I just bought some SOLR...what are yall's thoughts?
     


     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Sep. 3, 2009 - 8:58 PM ET #31

    Why would DRYS be up? Isn't the Baltic Dry Index in the toilet and circling downward?

    Good luck with ESLR Rat.I assume (I know I know, assuming is stupid) you will be bailing out on Friday come what may.

     Paul Krugman's summary of what our modern day astrologers/alchemists known as economists missed the Big One is interesting:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html?pagewanted=all



    Reply
    Why would DRYS be up? Isn't the Baltic Dry Index in the toilet and circling downward?

    Good luck with ESLR Rat.I assume (I know I know, assuming is stupid) you will be bailing out on Friday come what may.

     Paul Krugman's summary of what our modern day astrologers/alchemists known as economists missed the Big One is interesting:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html?pagewanted=all



     
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 9:21 AM ET #32

    Hey--hope all is good with everyone.
     
    As far as "the markets"-----  A TON of big money boys missed this latest bear market rally (Mar-Aug), so that being typed, I'd look for some scary sell-offs these next few months as the manipulators will look to get back in on the cheap.
     
    And oh by the way, long term (5-6 years from now), we couldn't be more screwed unless you like mega taxes, hyperinflation, and 24'7 government surveillance.  Nothing good has happened----and it won't.
    Reply
    Hey--hope all is good with everyone.
     
    As far as "the markets"-----  A TON of big money boys missed this latest bear market rally (Mar-Aug), so that being typed, I'd look for some scary sell-offs these next few months as the manipulators will look to get back in on the cheap.
     
    And oh by the way, long term (5-6 years from now), we couldn't be more screwed unless you like mega taxes, hyperinflation, and 24'7 government surveillance.  Nothing good has happened----and it won't.
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 10:30 AM ET #33

    Interesting read here:

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/19350839/Wegelin-Document-on-American-Taxes-and-Assets
    Reply
    Interesting read here:

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/19350839/Wegelin-Document-on-American-Taxes-and-Assets
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 11:29 AM ET #34

    Just looked at CDE, which I had at 4 and dumped at 6

    Reply
    Just looked at CDE, which I had at 4 and dumped at 6

     
    LeRinkRat
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 12:31 PM ET #35

    And oh by the way, long term (5-6 years from now), we couldn't be more screwed unless you like mega taxes, hyperinflation, and 24'7 government surveillance.  Nothing good has happened----and it won't.
     
    need to invest in some Alcoa. should be profitable with all the tin foil hats being made.
    Reply
    And oh by the way, long term (5-6 years from now), we couldn't be more screwed unless you like mega taxes, hyperinflation, and 24'7 government surveillance.  Nothing good has happened----and it won't.
     
    need to invest in some Alcoa. should be profitable with all the tin foil hats being made.
     
    LeRinkRat
    LeRinkRat
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 12:41 PM ET #36

    retail bears back shorting LVS just under 15. put in a ss for 1k @ 14.90 and came back "no stock avaliable" @ TD Ameritrade.
    Reply
    retail bears back shorting LVS just under 15. put in a ss for 1k @ 14.90 and came back "no stock avaliable" @ TD Ameritrade.
     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 1:22 PM ET #37

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermeer:

    Interesting read here:

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/19350839/Wegelin-Document-on-American-Taxes-and-Assets


    Goes into a topic that's not much discussed.  This bit about the IRS finally going after people not paying ALL of their taxes.  Will be interesting to see how this effects UBS and other Swiss Firms, who have always regarded themselves, and assured their clients of total  "Bank Secrecy"  

    All in all, people should expect this more aggressive type of behavior of the IRS in the coming years (audits anyone ??).  The Treasury is going to need to increase its intake into the piggy bank after all this spending... and this is one way to do it.


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Vermeer:

    Interesting read here:

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/19350839/Wegelin-Document-on-American-Taxes-and-Assets


    Goes into a topic that's not much discussed.  This bit about the IRS finally going after people not paying ALL of their taxes.  Will be interesting to see how this effects UBS and other Swiss Firms, who have always regarded themselves, and assured their clients of total  "Bank Secrecy"  

    All in all, people should expect this more aggressive type of behavior of the IRS in the coming years (audits anyone ??).  The Treasury is going to need to increase its intake into the piggy bank after all this spending... and this is one way to do it.


     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 1:38 PM ET #38

    They sure want this market higher.

    We have a 26 yr high unemployment and the markets keep moving higher, I guess the market thinks we will move out of this mess next year.
    Reply
    They sure want this market higher.

    We have a 26 yr high unemployment and the markets keep moving higher, I guess the market thinks we will move out of this mess next year.
     
    LeRinkRat
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 1:55 PM ET #39

    We have a 26 yr high unemployment and the markets keep moving higher, I guess the market thinks we will move out of this mess next year.
     
    as I have said before, 10% unemployment just might be the "new normal". think Britain in the 1970's and 80's
    Reply
    We have a 26 yr high unemployment and the markets keep moving higher, I guess the market thinks we will move out of this mess next year.
     
    as I have said before, 10% unemployment just might be the "new normal". think Britain in the 1970's and 80's
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 2:16 PM ET #40

    Well if we settle into those sort of numbers, the market is probably 50% overvalued. Multiples will come down with 10% unemployment.


    Reply
    Well if we settle into those sort of numbers, the market is probably 50% overvalued. Multiples will come down with 10% unemployment.


     
    LeRinkRat
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 3:33 PM ET #41

    I disagree. the wall street weasels will just say "fuck america" and go to foreign stocks or those "american" companies with foreign operations. LVS and WINN are classic in the gaming group. obviously no one gives a FUCK that Las Vegas is in the tank. they are looking at their asian ops. mother fucking LVS looks like it will see 15.50 or more before the close today. in fact, it just hit that with 30 mins to go.
     
    FUCKING NUTS!!!
    Reply
    I disagree. the wall street weasels will just say "fuck america" and go to foreign stocks or those "american" companies with foreign operations. LVS and WINN are classic in the gaming group. obviously no one gives a FUCK that Las Vegas is in the tank. they are looking at their asian ops. mother fucking LVS looks like it will see 15.50 or more before the close today. in fact, it just hit that with 30 mins to go.
     
    FUCKING NUTS!!!
     
    grapevinekid
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    Posted: Sep. 4, 2009 - 10:53 PM ET #42

    Sold my FAZ at 25.70 this am to lock in a profit on the shares I picked up last wk.
     
    I tend to have the same feeling as wallstreet above about the market going higher. Also found the prospectus rec'd from Direxion earlier this wk interesting in that it clearly states on the cover their leveraged ETFs are "short term trading vehicles".
    Reply
    Sold my FAZ at 25.70 this am to lock in a profit on the shares I picked up last wk.
     
    I tend to have the same feeling as wallstreet above about the market going higher. Also found the prospectus rec'd from Direxion earlier this wk interesting in that it clearly states on the cover their leveraged ETFs are "short term trading vehicles".
     
    claycourtlesson
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Sep. 5, 2009 - 1:52 PM ET #43

    With the current economic state, and the completely dismal prospects to come in 2010, "fair value" on the DOW would be about 4500.
     
    Only way out (for the long term) is a mega population purge----which would take about 50-100 years to sort through anyway.
     
    Warlords and fiefdoms = the future.
    Reply
    With the current economic state, and the completely dismal prospects to come in 2010, "fair value" on the DOW would be about 4500.
     
    Only way out (for the long term) is a mega population purge----which would take about 50-100 years to sort through anyway.
     
    Warlords and fiefdoms = the future.
     
    theclaw
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    Posted: Sep. 6, 2009 - 11:34 AM ET #44

    For the most part, earnings drives the stock market, if companys are making money and earnings are rising as they are and continue to do today then people want to buy their stock
     
    One of the best ways to gauge this is to use the PE (price to earnings ratio) of the S&P 500. In other words it tells one how expensive or how cheap stocks are relative to the earnings of the company.
     
    Because injvestors are always looking forward, anticipating what earnings will be next month, next quarter, let's look at the PE of the S&P 500 looking forward over the next 12 months earnings estimates.
     
    It's 16.69, to put this number in perspective, the PE of the S&P 500 when the markets peaked in 2007, before all  this mess started, and  with the economy doing well was around 30.
     
    Around 17 is the average over history, however, considering that tech trades at a much higher PE than the rest of the market, and since the tech boom of the 90's the PE of the S&P 500 has been consistently higher than average, which means the PE today is below the average.
     
    Stocks are cheaper today than they were back when the markets peaked in 2007, as long as earnings continue to rise, which they are, we're going up from here.
     
    And this is the very same reason the gamers took off again this week, earnings estimates for gaming was for very strong earnings coming ahead. Don't ask me how they arrived at this but that's what the estimates are.
     
    The other thing not to rule out is all the money on the sidelines, many mutual fund managers missed out on this rally as did a good number of individual investors, they're waiting for a good correction which hasn't happened, now they're scared of being left-out so any pull-back even a small one and they're jumping in.
     
     
    Reply
    For the most part, earnings drives the stock market, if companys are making money and earnings are rising as they are and continue to do today then people want to buy their stock
     
    One of the best ways to gauge this is to use the PE (price to earnings ratio) of the S&P 500. In other words it tells one how expensive or how cheap stocks are relative to the earnings of the company.
     
    Because injvestors are always looking forward, anticipating what earnings will be next month, next quarter, let's look at the PE of the S&P 500 looking forward over the next 12 months earnings estimates.
     
    It's 16.69, to put this number in perspective, the PE of the S&P 500 when the markets peaked in 2007, before all  this mess started, and  with the economy doing well was around 30.
     
    Around 17 is the average over history, however, considering that tech trades at a much higher PE than the rest of the market, and since the tech boom of the 90's the PE of the S&P 500 has been consistently higher than average, which means the PE today is below the average.
     
    Stocks are cheaper today than they were back when the markets peaked in 2007, as long as earnings continue to rise, which they are, we're going up from here.
     
    And this is the very same reason the gamers took off again this week, earnings estimates for gaming was for very strong earnings coming ahead. Don't ask me how they arrived at this but that's what the estimates are.
     
    The other thing not to rule out is all the money on the sidelines, many mutual fund managers missed out on this rally as did a good number of individual investors, they're waiting for a good correction which hasn't happened, now they're scared of being left-out so any pull-back even a small one and they're jumping in.
     
     
     
    claycourtlesson
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Sep. 6, 2009 - 6:42 PM ET #45

    We've been in a long term bear market since the Nasdaq crash of 2000.  What we're in now is simply a bear market rally, which is always the most vicious of rallies.
     
    With the inflation prospects looming ahead, you could see Dow 20,000 by EOY of 2015-2016, but in that time, in terms of today's dollar, which will be less and less valuable as time goes on, Dow 20,000 in 2016 will be like Dow 8,000 today, from which we're about one sell-off away.
     
    As Al Pacino in Devil's Advocate stated........... "Buy futures, sell futures, there is no future!!!!!!!!!!!"
     
    Correctly stated, Al.
    Reply
    We've been in a long term bear market since the Nasdaq crash of 2000.  What we're in now is simply a bear market rally, which is always the most vicious of rallies.
     
    With the inflation prospects looming ahead, you could see Dow 20,000 by EOY of 2015-2016, but in that time, in terms of today's dollar, which will be less and less valuable as time goes on, Dow 20,000 in 2016 will be like Dow 8,000 today, from which we're about one sell-off away.
     
    As Al Pacino in Devil's Advocate stated........... "Buy futures, sell futures, there is no future!!!!!!!!!!!"
     
    Correctly stated, Al.
     
    theclaw
    theclaw
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    Posted: Sep. 7, 2009 - 6:06 PM ET #46

    In 2000 when the Nasdaq rolled over 5000 the PE of the S&P 500 was at a all time high for the end of a bull run at about 45.
     
    And then would go to about 48  sometime I think it was 2002, this is why the performance of stocks has not done well the past 10 years, the PE was way to high.
     
    Thanks to the big drop in the stock market the PE has now dropped to it's lowest level in years, and when this has happened over history the market has performed very well over the next 10 years.
     
    Here's a chart from a Yale professor who developed his own PE OF THE S&P 500, based on the past 10 years earnings, which according to him levels out the effects of bussiness cycles.
     
    And he includes the "true returns" adjusted for inflation and what ever else he does.
     
    10 year period----PE at beginning of period ----ave yearly returns
     
    1929-1938 ----- 26.7  ----- 3.55%
    1939-1948 ----- 16.2 ------ 7.7%
    1949-1958 ------ 9.9 ------- 21.56%
    1959-1968 ------ 18 -------- 10.63%
    1969-1978 ------ 20.8 ------ 4.48%
    1979-1988 ------ 9.2  ------- 16.65%
    1989-1998 ------ 15.1 ------ 19.86%
    1999-2008 ------- 40.4 ----- 00.65% 
    2009 -2018 ------ 15.3 ----- ?????
     
    As you can see the market produced positive returns in every ten year period since 1929 anyway........
     
    The largest returns over any 10 year period followed the smallest PE , in other words when stocks are cheap.
     
    By far the smallest return was 1999 till 2008, which was also by far the single highest PE of the 10 year periods because of the tech bubble, pure speculation.
     
    The PE at the beginning of 2009 was one of the smallest in the 10 year period, in 1989 with a similar PE of 15.1 the markets soared to a 19.86% return per year for 10 year.
     
    With so many nervous people out there, there's plenty of money on the sidelines, we're going up folks !!!!!!
     
    Reply
    In 2000 when the Nasdaq rolled over 5000 the PE of the S&P 500 was at a all time high for the end of a bull run at about 45.
     
    And then would go to about 48  sometime I think it was 2002, this is why the performance of stocks has not done well the past 10 years, the PE was way to high.
     
    Thanks to the big drop in the stock market the PE has now dropped to it's lowest level in years, and when this has happened over history the market has performed very well over the next 10 years.
     
    Here's a chart from a Yale professor who developed his own PE OF THE S&P 500, based on the past 10 years earnings, which according to him levels out the effects of bussiness cycles.
     
    And he includes the "true returns" adjusted for inflation and what ever else he does.
     
    10 year period----PE at beginning of period ----ave yearly returns
     
    1929-1938 ----- 26.7  ----- 3.55%
    1939-1948 ----- 16.2 ------ 7.7%
    1949-1958 ------ 9.9 ------- 21.56%
    1959-1968 ------ 18 -------- 10.63%
    1969-1978 ------ 20.8 ------ 4.48%
    1979-1988 ------ 9.2  ------- 16.65%
    1989-1998 ------ 15.1 ------ 19.86%
    1999-2008 ------- 40.4 ----- 00.65% 
    2009 -2018 ------ 15.3 ----- ?????
     
    As you can see the market produced positive returns in every ten year period since 1929 anyway........
     
    The largest returns over any 10 year period followed the smallest PE , in other words when stocks are cheap.
     
    By far the smallest return was 1999 till 2008, which was also by far the single highest PE of the 10 year periods because of the tech bubble, pure speculation.
     
    The PE at the beginning of 2009 was one of the smallest in the 10 year period, in 1989 with a similar PE of 15.1 the markets soared to a 19.86% return per year for 10 year.
     
    With so many nervous people out there, there's plenty of money on the sidelines, we're going up folks !!!!!!
     
     
    Rush51
    Rush51
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    Posted: Sep. 8, 2009 - 12:07 AM ET #47

    Quote Originally Posted by claycourtlesson:

    With the current economic state, and the completely dismal prospects to come in 2010, "fair value" on the DOW would be about 4500.
     


    To have anything close to DOW 4500, much less a revisit of March Lows, would seem to require another catastrophic event,  such as one of the big banks at risk of being (completely) nationalized.
    It's important to remember that during the March Lows,  there was a real concern big banks in trouble would be entirely nationalized.   We had both an economic problem AND a financial sector problem at that moment.
    The banking sector is the life-blood of any economy.   We would need to have another significant breakdown in the finanicals , to revisit such DOW numbers.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by claycourtlesson:

    With the current economic state, and the completely dismal prospects to come in 2010, "fair value" on the DOW would be about 4500.
     


    To have anything close to DOW 4500, much less a revisit of March Lows, would seem to require another catastrophic event,  such as one of the big banks at risk of being (completely) nationalized.
    It's important to remember that during the March Lows,  there was a real concern big banks in trouble would be entirely nationalized.   We had both an economic problem AND a financial sector problem at that moment.
    The banking sector is the life-blood of any economy.   We would need to have another significant breakdown in the finanicals , to revisit such DOW numbers.
     
    hustle_man
    hustle_man
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    Posted: Sep. 8, 2009 - 2:03 PM ET #48

    Anyone have thoughts on POWN?

    Think it'll be able to piggyback off of Marvel's deal with Disney?
    Reply
    Anyone have thoughts on POWN?

    Think it'll be able to piggyback off of Marvel's deal with Disney?
     
    LeRinkRat
    LeRinkRat
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    Joined: Dec, 2001
    Posts: 85256
    Posted: Sep. 8, 2009 - 2:24 PM ET #49

    Anyone have thoughts on POWN?
     
    Ya, an "other OTC" pink sheet stock that has NO profile on marketwatch.com? GOOD LUCK!!!
     
    https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/pown/profile
    Reply
    Anyone have thoughts on POWN?
     
    Ya, an "other OTC" pink sheet stock that has NO profile on marketwatch.com? GOOD LUCK!!!
     
    https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/pown/profile
     
     
    Vermeer
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    Joined: Dec, 2006
    Posts: 2910
    Posted: Sep. 8, 2009 - 5:33 PM ET #50


     I have compared economics to astrology and alchemy.That being said, just to be fair, here is an article pointing out and naming the ones who saw it coming.A pity Al and Ben are not among the ones mentioned...

    https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/452dc484-9bdc-11de-b214-00144feabdc0.html



    Reply

     I have compared economics to astrology and alchemy.That being said, just to be fair, here is an article pointing out and naming the ones who saw it coming.A pity Al and Ben are not among the ones mentioned...

    https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/452dc484-9bdc-11de-b214-00144feabdc0.html



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