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    All Forums | Investments

    September credit meltdown thread

    «First Previous 1234
    KOAJ
    Lippsman
    Vermeer
    depeche2
    claycourtlesson
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 1428
    Posts: 84
    «First Previous 1234
     
    KOAJ
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2007 - 9:04 AM ET #76

    awful awful awful....

    GW speaks today at 11 est

    President Bush
    is unveiling a package of initiatives and proposals designed to help credit-challenged homeowners avoid defaulting on their mortgages. The plan includes policies allowing delinquent and low-income borrowers -- especially those with adjustable rate mortgages -- to refinance and avoid foreclosure. (AP in Yahoo! Finance) Some of the proposals need approval from Congress. Allen Fishbein of the Consumer Federation of America said that while most suggested fixes have focused on investors and lenders, "this is the first major step forward to address the problems of homeowners." (The Washington Post)
    Reply
    awful awful awful....

    GW speaks today at 11 est

    President Bush
    is unveiling a package of initiatives and proposals designed to help credit-challenged homeowners avoid defaulting on their mortgages. The plan includes policies allowing delinquent and low-income borrowers -- especially those with adjustable rate mortgages -- to refinance and avoid foreclosure. (AP in Yahoo! Finance) Some of the proposals need approval from Congress. Allen Fishbein of the Consumer Federation of America said that while most suggested fixes have focused on investors and lenders, "this is the first major step forward to address the problems of homeowners." (The Washington Post)
     
    Lippsman
    Lippsman
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2007 - 10:25 AM ET #77

    Wow, I should go out today and buy a ton of stuff I can't afford so the tax payers can bail me out. 
     
    What a crock of shit.......
     
    Reply
    Wow, I should go out today and buy a ton of stuff I can't afford so the tax payers can bail me out. 
     
    What a crock of shit.......
     
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2007 - 10:26 AM ET #78

    I wonder what percentage of these loans went to people who were simply flipping houses?
    Reply
    I wonder what percentage of these loans went to people who were simply flipping houses?
     
    depeche2
    depeche2
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2007 - 11:08 AM ET #79

    This Bush thing is ridiculous.  People need to take responsibility for their decisions.  If there was illegal predatory lending or unfair terms, but if people made poor decisions, then tough nookie, suck it up, shit happens.  Has Bush ever made a good decision?  When he should help, he doesn't, and when he shouldn't help, he wants to.  If Bush made sports picks, he'd be an auto fade.
    Reply
    This Bush thing is ridiculous.  People need to take responsibility for their decisions.  If there was illegal predatory lending or unfair terms, but if people made poor decisions, then tough nookie, suck it up, shit happens.  Has Bush ever made a good decision?  When he should help, he doesn't, and when he shouldn't help, he wants to.  If Bush made sports picks, he'd be an auto fade.
     
    claycourtlesson
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2007 - 1:07 PM ET #80

    Horrible, but let's face it.........
     
    ALL OF US knew a bail-out package was coming.
     
    Wall Street knew it was coming, and that is why shit companies like CFC weren't hacked totally down.
     
    Every time there is potential financial calamity (which in the housing case it was totally deserved) which will totally fuck the big houses like Goldman, Merril, Morgan, etc......there'll be a bail-out package.
     
    Always has been, always will.
     
    If I knew no bail-out were coming, I'd have begged, stolen, borrowed, done whatever to amass as much capital as possible and thrown every red cent of it at shorting CFC......and then covered when it got below 1.......and then lost all the profits on football season coming up......gotta make some humor out of it.
    Reply
    Horrible, but let's face it.........
     
    ALL OF US knew a bail-out package was coming.
     
    Wall Street knew it was coming, and that is why shit companies like CFC weren't hacked totally down.
     
    Every time there is potential financial calamity (which in the housing case it was totally deserved) which will totally fuck the big houses like Goldman, Merril, Morgan, etc......there'll be a bail-out package.
     
    Always has been, always will.
     
    If I knew no bail-out were coming, I'd have begged, stolen, borrowed, done whatever to amass as much capital as possible and thrown every red cent of it at shorting CFC......and then covered when it got below 1.......and then lost all the profits on football season coming up......gotta make some humor out of it.
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Sep. 21, 2007 - 10:52 AM ET #81

    According to an analysis conducted by Moody's Economy.com, declines will exceed 10 percent in 86 of the 379 largest housing markets. And 290 of the cities will experience price drops of 1 percent or more.

    The survey attempted to identify the high and low points of housing prices in each of the markets, some of which started declining from their peak in the third quarter of 2005. All are median prices for single-family houses.

    Nationally, Moody's is projecting an average price decline of 7.7 percent. That's a jump from the 6.6 percent total price drop that the company was forecasting in June and more than twice that of last October's forecast of a 3.6 percent price decrease.

    Many of the worst hit cities are in Sun Belt areas that experienced outsized home-price growth during the real estate bubble, according to Arnold Slesers, an associate economist at Moody's. The home price correction in many of these cities will be severe as unsold new homes and leaps in foreclosures add to already big inventories.

    The Stockton, Calif., metro area, where Moody's predicts a 25 percent price drop, will be the hardest hit among the 100 most populated cities surveyed.

    Prices in Stockton - in California's Central Valley - rose quickly through 2005 as many would-be Bay Area buyers, frozen out of the expensive San Francisco area housing market, moved in. That influx drove up the median, single-family home price to about $375,000. Stockton prices peaked during the first quarter of 2006 and have gone downhill since. Prices likely won't turn around until the end of next year.

    Just a tick or two behind Stockton in the Moody's survey were two Florida metro areas, Palm Bay/Melbourne (down 24.9 percent) and Sarasota/Bradenton (down 24.8 percent). All three markets are on almost the same peak-to-trough schedule, with Moody's forecasting that Sarasota will bottom out in the third quarter of 2008, a quarter sooner than the other two.

    Outside of the Sun Belt, the worst hit areas are in the Midwest, where auto industry layoffs and plant closings have devastated local economies.

    Detroit prices are experiencing the steepest fall of any large Rust Belt city. Moody's forecasts a 21.3 percent drop in Motown, which was hit earlier - in the third quarter of 2005 - and will suffer longer than most places. A turnaround in Detroit isn't expected until early 2009.

    Six of the nation's 10 biggest cities face price declines of 1 percent or more with Phoenix, at a 17.8 percent loss, undergoing the worst reversal. The San Diego area will suffer through a 10.9 percent fall, Los Angeles (down 10.6 percent), New York, (down 5.3 percent), San Jose, (down 4.4 percent) and Philadelphia (down 3.1 percent) will also fall.

    Among smaller cities, the biggest price declines will be in Saginaw, Mich., where the drop is forecasted at a numbing 31.8 percent. Other devastated markets will be in Punta Gorda, Fla. (down 28.8 percent), Merced, Calif (down 26.5 percent) and Santa Barbara, Calif. (down 25.9 percent).

    The markets where Moody's is forecasting growth generally have one thing in common: Home prices in these cities are quite low. The top appreciating market will be the Brownsville/ Harlingen area in Texas, forecast to rise by 7.9 percent between July 2007 and the end of 2009. The median single-family home price there is less than $120,000.

    In Killeen, Texas, the No. 2 appreciating market, prices are forecast to rise 4.6 percent and the median home price is about $129,000. Other inexpensive housing markets showing predicted price growth include Buffalo/Niagara Falls, N.Y.; Pittsburgh and Huntsville, Ala.

    Reply
    According to an analysis conducted by Moody's Economy.com, declines will exceed 10 percent in 86 of the 379 largest housing markets. And 290 of the cities will experience price drops of 1 percent or more.

    The survey attempted to identify the high and low points of housing prices in each of the markets, some of which started declining from their peak in the third quarter of 2005. All are median prices for single-family houses.

    Nationally, Moody's is projecting an average price decline of 7.7 percent. That's a jump from the 6.6 percent total price drop that the company was forecasting in June and more than twice that of last October's forecast of a 3.6 percent price decrease.

    Many of the worst hit cities are in Sun Belt areas that experienced outsized home-price growth during the real estate bubble, according to Arnold Slesers, an associate economist at Moody's. The home price correction in many of these cities will be severe as unsold new homes and leaps in foreclosures add to already big inventories.

    The Stockton, Calif., metro area, where Moody's predicts a 25 percent price drop, will be the hardest hit among the 100 most populated cities surveyed.

    Prices in Stockton - in California's Central Valley - rose quickly through 2005 as many would-be Bay Area buyers, frozen out of the expensive San Francisco area housing market, moved in. That influx drove up the median, single-family home price to about $375,000. Stockton prices peaked during the first quarter of 2006 and have gone downhill since. Prices likely won't turn around until the end of next year.

    Just a tick or two behind Stockton in the Moody's survey were two Florida metro areas, Palm Bay/Melbourne (down 24.9 percent) and Sarasota/Bradenton (down 24.8 percent). All three markets are on almost the same peak-to-trough schedule, with Moody's forecasting that Sarasota will bottom out in the third quarter of 2008, a quarter sooner than the other two.

    Outside of the Sun Belt, the worst hit areas are in the Midwest, where auto industry layoffs and plant closings have devastated local economies.

    Detroit prices are experiencing the steepest fall of any large Rust Belt city. Moody's forecasts a 21.3 percent drop in Motown, which was hit earlier - in the third quarter of 2005 - and will suffer longer than most places. A turnaround in Detroit isn't expected until early 2009.

    Six of the nation's 10 biggest cities face price declines of 1 percent or more with Phoenix, at a 17.8 percent loss, undergoing the worst reversal. The San Diego area will suffer through a 10.9 percent fall, Los Angeles (down 10.6 percent), New York, (down 5.3 percent), San Jose, (down 4.4 percent) and Philadelphia (down 3.1 percent) will also fall.

    Among smaller cities, the biggest price declines will be in Saginaw, Mich., where the drop is forecasted at a numbing 31.8 percent. Other devastated markets will be in Punta Gorda, Fla. (down 28.8 percent), Merced, Calif (down 26.5 percent) and Santa Barbara, Calif. (down 25.9 percent).

    The markets where Moody's is forecasting growth generally have one thing in common: Home prices in these cities are quite low. The top appreciating market will be the Brownsville/ Harlingen area in Texas, forecast to rise by 7.9 percent between July 2007 and the end of 2009. The median single-family home price there is less than $120,000.

    In Killeen, Texas, the No. 2 appreciating market, prices are forecast to rise 4.6 percent and the median home price is about $129,000. Other inexpensive housing markets showing predicted price growth include Buffalo/Niagara Falls, N.Y.; Pittsburgh and Huntsville, Ala.

     
    KOAJ
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Sep. 21, 2007 - 12:59 PM ET #82

    the crash is coming vermeer...be patient

    rate cut is good for equities but....mortgage rates are higher
    Reply
    the crash is coming vermeer...be patient

    rate cut is good for equities but....mortgage rates are higher
     
    Vermeer
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    Posts: 2910
    Posted: Sep. 21, 2007 - 5:33 PM ET #83

    Even the boom was not all that ...

    According to the National Association of Home Builders, the average price for a new home in 1980 was $76,400. By 2005, it had climbed to $295,100.

    That's incredible! $218,700 in caaash ...
    Before you get too excited thinking about investing in real estate and flipping houses, ponder this: Over a 25-year period, that $218,700 gain comes out to a 5.6% annualized return.

    Think about that. If your stock investments had grown at just 5.6% annually over the past 25 years, you'd be kicking yourself. And with good reason -- during that time, the S&P 500 earned 10.3% annually -- almost double the average gains in housing. Hershey (NYSE: HSY) would have doubled the average house's return (13%). Johnson & Johnson (NYSE: JNJ) (18%) and General Electric (NYSE: GE) (19%) would have more than tripled it. Even Eastman Kodak (NYSE: EK), the very picture of long-haul underperformance, churned out a nearly 7% annualized gain from 1980 to 2005.


    Reply
    Even the boom was not all that ...

    According to the National Association of Home Builders, the average price for a new home in 1980 was $76,400. By 2005, it had climbed to $295,100.

    That's incredible! $218,700 in caaash ...
    Before you get too excited thinking about investing in real estate and flipping houses, ponder this: Over a 25-year period, that $218,700 gain comes out to a 5.6% annualized return.

    Think about that. If your stock investments had grown at just 5.6% annually over the past 25 years, you'd be kicking yourself. And with good reason -- during that time, the S&P 500 earned 10.3% annually -- almost double the average gains in housing. Hershey (NYSE: HSY) would have doubled the average house's return (13%). Johnson & Johnson (NYSE: JNJ) (18%) and General Electric (NYSE: GE) (19%) would have more than tripled it. Even Eastman Kodak (NYSE: EK), the very picture of long-haul underperformance, churned out a nearly 7% annualized gain from 1980 to 2005.


     
     
    depeche2
    depeche2
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    Posted: Sep. 21, 2007 - 6:22 PM ET #84

    Vermeer, but then again you can't live inside your J&J stock certificates.  Clearly, a personal residence is more than just an investment.  Ya gotta live somewhere.  Between the long-term appreciation, tax benefits and enjoyment of more property for the money, ya can't beat home ownership over the long haul in most situations.

    I bought 6 years ago and even with the property down now a bit from where it was I'm at about 8% annualized return.  At a 5.75% tax-deductible 30-year fixed rate.  No way I'd have the equity if I was renting.
    Reply
    Vermeer, but then again you can't live inside your J&J stock certificates.  Clearly, a personal residence is more than just an investment.  Ya gotta live somewhere.  Between the long-term appreciation, tax benefits and enjoyment of more property for the money, ya can't beat home ownership over the long haul in most situations.

    I bought 6 years ago and even with the property down now a bit from where it was I'm at about 8% annualized return.  At a 5.75% tax-deductible 30-year fixed rate.  No way I'd have the equity if I was renting.
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