i doubt they will have jobs in the next few weeks although id rather have jimmy cayne continue to lead them
jpm providing financing for them now...but with a 5b mkt cap intraday they can probably buy them out for 8b tomorrow and become the biggest clearing house in the country
i doubt they will have jobs in the next few weeks although id rather have jimmy cayne continue to lead them
jpm providing financing for them now...but with a 5b mkt cap intraday they can probably buy them out for 8b tomorrow and become the biggest clearing house in the country
bsc is much more important to the inner workings of the financial system than cfc which is a turd shop of scavengers
if BSC is on the brink (and they are from what i read) i have no idea what their leveraged positions are...no one does or we would have seen this sooner than last june when the first bsc hedge fund collapsed
200B in derivitives means a firesale into markets repricing a ton of assets on everyone elses books...which in turn screws up everyone else's margin requirements...very very very very bad
agreed on mozillo
bsc is much more important to the inner workings of the financial system than cfc which is a turd shop of scavengers
if BSC is on the brink (and they are from what i read) i have no idea what their leveraged positions are...no one does or we would have seen this sooner than last june when the first bsc hedge fund collapsed
200B in derivitives means a firesale into markets repricing a ton of assets on everyone elses books...which in turn screws up everyone else's margin requirements...very very very very bad
the only side of bear that is making money is through bear energy... the financial side is a complete disaster, but they will stay afloat because they are having a lot of success in the gas and power industry right now
the only side of bear that is making money is through bear energy... the financial side is a complete disaster, but they will stay afloat because they are having a lot of success in the gas and power industry right now
I think the scariest part of all of this remains what it has been since the start:absolutely no one in the entire system can place a value on the paper out there.
We are going to be hit with bad news similar to this for months, not days or weeks. This is a massive massive problem that has been pooh poohed since it started, and those who have tried to say it's over have lost their shirts.
I think the scariest part of all of this remains what it has been since the start:absolutely no one in the entire system can place a value on the paper out there.
We are going to be hit with bad news similar to this for months, not days or weeks. This is a massive massive problem that has been pooh poohed since it started, and those who have tried to say it's over have lost their shirts.
i think its a strong buy after the drop today.. they have several strong pieces in tact to keep the company afloat, until they get the assholes out of there, and get the financial side back in order. Potentially long process, but I see it coming back up.
i think its a strong buy after the drop today.. they have several strong pieces in tact to keep the company afloat, until they get the assholes out of there, and get the financial side back in order. Potentially long process, but I see it coming back up.
rumor has it, if there's anyone who's next, its them
from financialarmegeddon.com on S&P comments yesterday
As far as I know, S&P (and its peers) never saw any of the bad news
coming, so how is it that they are now able to see the light at the end
of the tunnel? That's aside from the fact, of course, that the various
rating agencies have already confirmed their grotesque incompetence
(or, perhaps, their blatant disregard for the law) by maintaining AAA
ratings on companies and securities that clearly don't deserve them
vermeer - was it you who had the LEH puts?
rumor has it, if there's anyone who's next, its them
from financialarmegeddon.com on S&P comments yesterday
As far as I know, S&P (and its peers) never saw any of the bad news
coming, so how is it that they are now able to see the light at the end
of the tunnel? That's aside from the fact, of course, that the various
rating agencies have already confirmed their grotesque incompetence
(or, perhaps, their blatant disregard for the law) by maintaining AAA
ratings on companies and securities that clearly don't deserve them
the old Texas oil patch saying from back in the early 80's when oil prices tanked probably applies here.......
"IF you owe the bank a MILLION dollars, YOU have a problem. IF you owe the bank a BILLION dollars, the BANK has a problem"
the B-S creditors probably can't afford to let them fail. it's kinda like Bunker "Bungle" Hunt and the Texas Commerce Bank during the 1980 "silver scare"
the old Texas oil patch saying from back in the early 80's when oil prices tanked probably applies here.......
"IF you owe the bank a MILLION dollars, YOU have a problem. IF you owe the bank a BILLION dollars, the BANK has a problem"
the B-S creditors probably can't afford to let them fail. it's kinda like Bunker "Bungle" Hunt and the Texas Commerce Bank during the 1980 "silver scare"
It wa not me with the puts on LEH, but...hey I am looking at em now that is for sure..
I recall CC advising to wait to buy C when it got to 13 or so....at the time, I thought it improbable to get it that low, but he may be right on the money.
Basically Bear has been taken over by the Fed for now has it not??
Koaj,
It wa not me with the puts on LEH, but...hey I am looking at em now that is for sure..
I recall CC advising to wait to buy C when it got to 13 or so....at the time, I thought it improbable to get it that low, but he may be right on the money.
Basically Bear has been taken over by the Fed for now has it not??
vermeer - fed and jpm are providing short term financing. im sure short term is a loose definition as bsc going down would be very bad and send us to dow 9000
vermeer - fed and jpm are providing short term financing. im sure short term is a loose definition as bsc going down would be very bad and send us to dow 9000
Some great comments here. I didn't know there were so many knowledgable people on this message board. We should talk stocks and finance more often. I'll offer this: I don't think you can trust any of them. 2 days ago the CEO of BS was on and said there is no liquidity problem at all. One more odd claim is that the CPI was unchanged when crude oil and gasoline are at a all time high and the dollar is at an all time low. Are they all full of shit or what? Or did Bush just tell them to pad the figures so he can keep saying we're not in a recession. I did get a chuckle when the S&P futures were up 17 and a hour later the market was down 250.
Some great comments here. I didn't know there were so many knowledgable people on this message board. We should talk stocks and finance more often. I'll offer this: I don't think you can trust any of them. 2 days ago the CEO of BS was on and said there is no liquidity problem at all. One more odd claim is that the CPI was unchanged when crude oil and gasoline are at a all time high and the dollar is at an all time low. Are they all full of shit or what? Or did Bush just tell them to pad the figures so he can keep saying we're not in a recession. I did get a chuckle when the S&P futures were up 17 and a hour later the market was down 250.
First post. I work for Bear Stearns. I own 15,000 shares of its stock that i'm not allowed to sell. 18 months ago, it was worth $2.6 million. This morning, its worth $400k. Excuse me while I go jump out a window.
Worst bet I ever made.
First post. I work for Bear Stearns. I own 15,000 shares of its stock that i'm not allowed to sell. 18 months ago, it was worth $2.6 million. This morning, its worth $400k. Excuse me while I go jump out a window.
From the little reading I did this morning, this issue is all about the frozen short term paper market, not about the Bear business in general. Bear lacks in NEAR term liquidity and if they are fully invested longer term meaning they could be invested in a variety of stocks, bonds, CDO's etc. What the illiquidity in the short term paper does ripples down the financial stream as Bear probably has been selling equities which are more liquid, trying to sell longer term bonds, notes into an already skiddish market making it even MORE illiquid.
If Bear gets bought out for under 7B then you BUY the buyer that day, they are getting a great deal no doubt about it.
I wonder about anti-trust laws though and if another bank could buy a bank that size?
From the little reading I did this morning, this issue is all about the frozen short term paper market, not about the Bear business in general. Bear lacks in NEAR term liquidity and if they are fully invested longer term meaning they could be invested in a variety of stocks, bonds, CDO's etc. What the illiquidity in the short term paper does ripples down the financial stream as Bear probably has been selling equities which are more liquid, trying to sell longer term bonds, notes into an already skiddish market making it even MORE illiquid.
If Bear gets bought out for under 7B then you BUY the buyer that day, they are getting a great deal no doubt about it.
I wonder about anti-trust laws though and if another bank could buy a bank that size?
moving earnings to monday instead of thursday of next week
hopefully thats a good thing... -------- afjack - if the CPI goes up, the fed govt has to increase SS payments in real dollars...therefore i believe its manipulated down...or as we know, revised in the coming months
BSC conf call at 1230
moving earnings to monday instead of thursday of next week
hopefully thats a good thing... -------- afjack - if the CPI goes up, the fed govt has to increase SS payments in real dollars...therefore i believe its manipulated down...or as we know, revised in the coming months
First post. I work for Bear Stearns. I own 15,000 shares of its stock that i'm not allowed to sell. 18 months ago, it was worth $2.6 million. This morning, its worth $400k. Excuse me while I go jump out a window.
First post. I work for Bear Stearns. I own 15,000 shares of its stock that i'm not allowed to sell. 18 months ago, it was worth $2.6 million. This morning, its worth $400k. Excuse me while I go jump out a window.
From the little reading I did this morning, this issue is all about the frozen short term paper market, not about the Bear business in general. Bear lacks in NEAR term liquidity and if they are fully invested longer term meaning they could be invested in a variety of stocks, bonds, CDO's etc. What the illiquidity in the short term paper does ripples down the financial stream as Bear probably has been selling equities which are more liquid, trying to sell longer term bonds, notes into an already skiddish market making it even MORE illiquid.
If Bear gets bought out for under 7B then you BUY the buyer that day, they are getting a great deal no doubt about it.
I wonder about anti-trust laws though and if another bank could buy a bank that size?
wall - i believe anti trust limit a bank from managing more than 10% of the nations assets...not sure if a jpm/bsc combo would go over that limit
do you remember the other day a large hedge fund i was talking to had a neat shorting strategy of finding a beaten up fund and shorting their holdings?
guess what fund they were referring to?
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
From the little reading I did this morning, this issue is all about the frozen short term paper market, not about the Bear business in general. Bear lacks in NEAR term liquidity and if they are fully invested longer term meaning they could be invested in a variety of stocks, bonds, CDO's etc. What the illiquidity in the short term paper does ripples down the financial stream as Bear probably has been selling equities which are more liquid, trying to sell longer term bonds, notes into an already skiddish market making it even MORE illiquid.
If Bear gets bought out for under 7B then you BUY the buyer that day, they are getting a great deal no doubt about it.
I wonder about anti-trust laws though and if another bank could buy a bank that size?
wall - i believe anti trust limit a bank from managing more than 10% of the nations assets...not sure if a jpm/bsc combo would go over that limit
do you remember the other day a large hedge fund i was talking to had a neat shorting strategy of finding a beaten up fund and shorting their holdings?
I thought you mentioned that they were targeting high debt to assets or was that someone else who was talking here?
Anyone catch the Bear below 30? I think this problem is short term, and short term can turn into long term if there are 5 times more sellers than buyers in the instruments in question of course (short term paper).
If I had 30k free and nothing to use for it (not in 401k assets which I cannot buy stocks) I would throw some in on Bear...
Koaj,
I thought you mentioned that they were targeting high debt to assets or was that someone else who was talking here?
Anyone catch the Bear below 30? I think this problem is short term, and short term can turn into long term if there are 5 times more sellers than buyers in the instruments in question of course (short term paper).
If I had 30k free and nothing to use for it (not in 401k assets which I cannot buy stocks) I would throw some in on Bear...
right-now!My....no-end-in-sight-for-this-shitty-economy!
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