Posted:
#901
System,
I know that God is a perfect Judge and I am confident that he judged Hitler according, so to answer your question yes.
If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity
talk about blind faith
Posted:
#903
KittyKat,
I didn't read everything that SJD said, so I can't address everything he said.
But to answer your statement about "if there is a distinction between your 2 positions, then what kind of religion is that where two people can follow the same beliefs and have different interpretations?"
This is why there is such division within the church. Such as methodists, baptists, Pentacostals etc. Because many people interpret certain passages of the Bible differently, so they separated themselves and started another Church or religious organization.
And the 2 people can follow the same beliefs and have different interpretations, as well as entire church organizations because they still hold to the main fundamental core beliefs about Christ and the Church.
In other words, they believe and adhere to the main fundamental's about Christ and the church, but can still have differences about other passages in the Bible and differences about the Church.
But they still hold onto the main foundations about Christ, such as...
The Apostle's Creed
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting.
Posted:
#904
KittyKat,
I understand what you are saying now, in your first point in post #901, but how does God's lack of perfection effect what happens here on the earth?
About the murder subject.
All sins God states can be forgiven (including murder), except what Christ calls blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. (matthew 12:31-32) in the New Testament.
The Apostle Paul murdered Christians before he became a follower of Christ, Moses killed a man, King David was a murder etc. And they were forgiven and became great men of God.
Posted:
#907
System,
God is so merciful, loving, compassionate and perfect in all his ways and even in his judgments.
His patience, love and mercy toward us and all of mankind is beyond my understanding. I can only comprehend it on such a minute level, and on the level that i do get it (which is very small).
I believe that their are many in heaven, that others think are in Hell and there are many who are in Hell, that others think are in heaven.
I think it will be a shocking and overwhelming day when we see who is in heaven on judgment day!!!
Posted:
#910
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
System,
It's beyond your understanding yet you are willing to let it guide the only life that you know for sure that you haveSystem,
God is so merciful, loving, compassionate and perfect in all his ways and even in his judgments.
His patience, love and mercy toward us and all of mankind is beyond my understanding. I can only comprehend it on such a minute level, and on the level that i do get it (which is very small).
I believe that their are many in heaven, that others think are in Hell and there are many who are in Hell, that others think are in heaven.
I think it will be a shocking and overwhelming day when we see who is in heaven on judgment day!!!
Posted:
#911
Kittykat,
What is so hard about it?
There isn't even a close 2nd that can come close to explaining...
How the earth, moon, sun, planets, galaxies just appeared?
How a human beings were created with all of it's complexities?
How all the animals, insects, mammals etc. came about?
I could go on and on with questions, but it is not needed.
I think what i can't believe.
Is how so many people can look at so many created things and have no problem accepting that someone made it.
Such as a building, a tv, a computer etc. People can just look at these things and without any reservations know in their heart that someone had to build it, create it, invent it etc.(that these things didn't just appear, but that they were skillfully crafted, thought through, planned and built.
Yet when people have sooooo much evidence all around them (just in the creation alone) that scream out to them everyday that a creator created these things.
Yet they deny it, argue against it and do so out of ignorance, or because of the way they were raised, or taught in school etc.
But anyone who truly takes the time to seek, study and pursue with all of their heart and mind the existence and evidence of God, they will find that the verdict is an overwhelming 100% fact that HE EXISTS!
Posted:
#912
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
Kittykat,
Kittykat,
What is so hard about it?
There isn't even a close 2nd that can come close to explaining...
How the earth, moon, sun, planets, galaxies just appeared?
How a human beings were created with all of it's complexities?
How all the animals, insects, mammals etc. came about?
I could go on and on with questions, but it is not needed.
So, because you can not explain things or understand things, lets just say a god did it
I think what i can't believe.
Is how so many people can look at so many created things and have no problem accepting that someone made it.
Such as a building, a tv, a computer etc. People can just look at these things and without any reservations know in their heart that someone had to build it, create it, invent it etc.(that these things didn't just appear, but that they were skillfully crafted, thought through, planned and built.
Yet when people have sooooo much evidenceall around them (just in the creation alone) that scream out to them everyday that a creator created these things.
all around them (just in the creation alone) that scream out to them everyday that a creator created these things. Yet they deny it, argue against it and do so out of ignorance, or because of the way they were raised, or taught in school etc.
I could say the same thing about you...
But anyone who truly takes the time to seek, study and pursue with all of their heart and mind
the existence and evidence of God, they will find that the verdict is an overwhelming 100% fact that HE EXISTS!
the existence and evidence of God, they will find that the verdict is an overwhelming 100% fact that HE EXISTS!
Posted:
#913
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
Kittykat,
Kittykat,
What is so hard about it?
There isn't even a close 2nd that can come close to explaining...
How the earth, moon, sun, planets, galaxies just appeared?
How a human beings were created with all of it's complexities?
How all the animals, insects, mammals etc. came about?
I could go on and on with questions, but it is not needed.
I think what i can't believe.
Is how so many people can look at so many created things and have no problem accepting that someone made it.
Such as a building, a tv, a computer etc. People can just look at these things and without any reservations know in their heart that someone had to build it, create it, invent it etc.(that these things didn't just appear, but that they were skillfully crafted, thought through, planned and built.
Yet when people have sooooo much evidence all around them (just in the creation alone) that scream out to them everyday that a creator created these things.
Yet they deny it, argue against it and do so out of ignorance, or because of the way they were raised, or taught in school etc.
But anyone who truly takes the time to seek, study and pursue with all of their heart and mind the existence and evidence of God, they will find that the verdict is an overwhelming 100% fact that HE EXISTS!
KK has ADMITTED that he believes something can come from nothing, uncaused.
I suppose we are seeing this quote in action
Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools.... They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator.... And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong
Posted:
#915
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
KK has ADMITTED that he believes something can come from nothing, uncaused.
I suppose we are seeing this quote in action
Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools.... They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator.... And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong
Posted:
#916
Here is some of my story.
When I was in my teens and began to question everything such as God, religion, school, government etc.I also started to question things like:
Where did I come from?
Why am I here?
What is my purpose in life?
Is life a continual cycle of going to school, to get a good job, to get married, to have kids... so that my kids can go to school, get a good job, get married, have kids...so that their kids can go to school..(U get the idea)
I started asking myself, THERE MUST BE MORE TO LIFE THAN JUST THIS!!!
Anyhow after yrs. of doing drugs, in and out juvenile jail, then after doing some time in county jail all the while questioning life, but getting no answers.
Once I changed my life graduated college and had a good job, I sill never found answers to life's hard questions and still didn't find satisfaction in making good money with a decent education.
So, I found no fulfillment in money and materialistic things. I found no satisfaction in all the different drugs that I did.
I also didn't find it in all the women that I slept with.
So in all the searching and trying out all the so-called pleasures in life, none of them gave me the answers that I was looking for and never truly brought fulfillment within me.
Long story short. Everything that I tried, tasted, smoked, snorted, slept with or spent never gave me the answers that I searched for or gave me the happiness that I longed for.
After years of searching, crying, ups and downs and Once I stopped denying the existence of God, I finally began to seek Him to see for myself if He was real.
After months and months of research, studying history/other religions etc. There was too much evidence that convinced me that he was real.
Then once I began seeking him on my own, he revealed himself to me and my eyes were opened spiritually.
I then found the answers to my questions and life's hard questions that I looked for all of my life. I also found the the love, peace of mind and fulfillment that I couldn't find in anyone or in anything.
It was amazing and life transforming for me...then to find out that what happened to me, has happened to millions of others throughout the world and throughout history!!!!
Anyway, there is some of my story. I thought I should share some of it, so that you guys have a better idea who you are talking to.
Matt
Posted:
#919
System,
World population almost = 6 billion
You said So, because you can not explain things or understand things, lets just say a god did it
I am not the only one saying a god did it.
Statistics say there is 1.5 billion christians, 1 billion Muslims, 0.8 billion Hindus, 0.5 billion Budahsim so
1.5+1+0.8+0.5 = 4.1 billionWorld population almost = 6 billion
So, about 4.1 billion agree with me!
Posted:
#920
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:
My assumption is spot on according to the bible,,,
What is this bs, "christianity is reality. life is life" and then you say life is not a test, but you will be judged, but not on life but on yourself? your life is you...
where do you get this crap????
and no babies do not believe in god. people are not born with a belief, it is learned.
No, your assumptions was erroneous.
And no, life is not a test. You will be judged for what you do, but that doesn't mean life is a test. Do you think crimes are tests, even though you get judged for them in a court of law? You're religion is an interesting one...
So you don't mean "baby" but you mean "people who have no knowledge". Then say that next time. Unless you are arguing that a baby cannot ever hold a belief, which is plain wrong in and of itself.
Posted:
#922
System,
I am shocked that you highlighted the word evidence each time I uesd it, in the above post. The reason being is because you come across as a very logical thinker.
The evidence for God and for Christ is astounding and frankly I can't think of any major professor or school in America that would deny this.
I could be wrong, but I know that even Christ is accepted by every religion. Even if they accept him as a prophet, yet they don't even make an erroneous claim that he was a fictional character, like many do.
Posted:
#923
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
1. What I'm saying is if god was perfect, a lot of things in the world would be different. A lot of terrible things wouldn't happen. I was using babies dying as an example, that's all.
1. What I'm saying is if god was perfect, a lot of things in the world would be different. A lot of terrible things wouldn't happen. I was using babies dying as an example, that's all.
2. Please clarify the distinction between your position and SJD's position. SJD has told me that murder is forgivable, but blasphemy is not. You are telling me what exactly? And furthermore, if there is a distinction between your 2 positions, then what kind of religion is that where two people can follow the same beliefs and have different interpretations?
(1) is the problem of Evil, and it's a faulty argument that been argued to death within theology (even notable atheists reject the argument). As you may have already noticed, I don't deal with simple premises thrown around like we're in some high school classroom. What you say needs to be stated within a logical argument, in a rational and coherent manner. You must provide your argument and prove it.
(2) I said that people are forgivable. Actions are just actions. They happen, they come and go. God neither forgives nor not-forgives actions. Forgiveness is regarding the people themselves. And how can one forgive an action? It doesn't make sense. Can you forgive 'flying'? Can you forgive 'eating'? What does that even mean?
But people can be forgiven. For example, Murder will always be sin, and it will always remain that way. But the murderer, while he may have committed an action that is sin, can be forgiven. For each and every individual there is always hope.
However there is that one individual who will not be forgiven -- that is the one who makes the Christian God (who is defined as Goodness, Justice, Mercy, Life, Kindness, Power, Knowledge, etc.) as the Enemy. That individual, who sees something of God, like say, Goodness, and knowingly calls it something that should be attacked or destroyed, is one that will not be forgiven.
You, KittyKatz, have not done that. What you have shown was that you don't understand Christianity very well (which is the fault of many frail-faith, 'stupid', and hide-bound Christians, not your fault at all, bro). You haven't committed that sin, so you don't have to worry about never being forgiven. For one such as you, there is always hope, and always love. Christ died for you so that you may not perish into oblivion. Of course, the enemy will tell you otherwise. Either way, God makes room for your volition, you choose what you want. You are the master of your fate.
Posted:
#924
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
System,
World population almost = 6 billion
System,
You said So, because you can not explain things or understand things, lets just say a god did it
I am not the only one saying a god did it.
Statistics say there is 1.5 billion christians, 1 billion Muslims, 0.8 billion Hindus, 0.5 billion Budahsim so
1.5+1+0.8+0.5 = 4.1 billionWorld population almost = 6 billion
So, about 4.1 billion agree with me!
the majority used to think the earth was flat too
Posted:
#925
If anything, KittyKatz, please forgive any sense of hostility that you feel from my fellow posters -- It's not so much that they are so intent on calling you "fools", rather, it's that they are very much impassioned into defending their worldview.
I'm sure you can understand their frustration. I mean, you can even look at your own posts and see that you do quite the same thing (explicitly attacking the character of your fellow man in argument).
I hope that my posts provide a much more civilized and rational way of discussing things. I am not in this discussion to scream what I 'think' is right at you and curse your view in some pointless argument. I am in this discussion as a serious, and logical man trying to reason with you to a common, and valid solution. I hope that you will continue to reason with me as we reach that conclusion, and not to ignore me, or to devolve in a spat of cursing and ad hominem fallacy, like some of the other posters here have done.
I'm sure you can understand their frustration. I mean, you can even look at your own posts and see that you do quite the same thing (explicitly attacking the character of your fellow man in argument).
I hope that my posts provide a much more civilized and rational way of discussing things. I am not in this discussion to scream what I 'think' is right at you and curse your view in some pointless argument. I am in this discussion as a serious, and logical man trying to reason with you to a common, and valid solution. I hope that you will continue to reason with me as we reach that conclusion, and not to ignore me, or to devolve in a spat of cursing and ad hominem fallacy, like some of the other posters here have done.
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