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    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

    «First Previous 202122 ... 213214215 Next Last»
    Crashdavis565
    SirJohnDrake
    Arbitrage5
    jagerfury
    Rostos
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    Crashdavis565
    Crashdavis565
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    Posted: Oct. 8, 2011 - 12:43 AM ET #476

    I will be an ambassador for the love shown by Jesus.


    Reply
    I will be an ambassador for the love shown by Jesus.


     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Oct. 10, 2011 - 1:07 PM ET #477

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:

    I will be an ambassador for the love shown by Jesus.


    Good man Crash! God bless you & your family! And may we continue to have many more new ambassadors of Jesus Christ Our Lord Savior!

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:

    I will be an ambassador for the love shown by Jesus.


    Good man Crash! God bless you & your family! And may we continue to have many more new ambassadors of Jesus Christ Our Lord Savior!

     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 1:45 PM ET #478

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:

    Ok so I think I got it.
    Jesus did not take the time to tell his followers directly that homosexuals were sinning. It must not have been that important to him. Cool.

    Don't get the wrong idea that Jesus thought that it was not a big deal being a homosexual and it was cool with Him at the time He was living among us some 2000 years ago.

    His main purpose was to be the savior of mankind, the perfect sacrifice to pay for all the sins of the world. He told us that He didn't come to abolish the laws of Moses or the prophets of the past.

    So sins are still sins and we are all guilty of being sinners but we can redeem ourselves by doing 3 things, the first is to recognize that you are a sinner, secondly ask Jesus for forgiveness and lastly turn away from your sins. If you do the first 2 steps which are easiest to do, then do the 3rd step which is the hardest of all until the day you die, well then paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits your arrival.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:

    Ok so I think I got it.
    Jesus did not take the time to tell his followers directly that homosexuals were sinning. It must not have been that important to him. Cool.

    Don't get the wrong idea that Jesus thought that it was not a big deal being a homosexual and it was cool with Him at the time He was living among us some 2000 years ago.

    His main purpose was to be the savior of mankind, the perfect sacrifice to pay for all the sins of the world. He told us that He didn't come to abolish the laws of Moses or the prophets of the past.

    So sins are still sins and we are all guilty of being sinners but we can redeem ourselves by doing 3 things, the first is to recognize that you are a sinner, secondly ask Jesus for forgiveness and lastly turn away from your sins. If you do the first 2 steps which are easiest to do, then do the 3rd step which is the hardest of all until the day you die, well then paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits your arrival.

     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 1:55 PM ET #479

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:

    WE HAVE MULTIPLE BRANCHES OF CHRISTIANITY THAT NOW LOVE THE GAY AND LESBIAN POPULATION AS I AM SURE JESUS WOULD, BUT HERE IN THIS THREAD WE CHOOSE TO IGNORE THEM WHY?

    Jesus loves everyone but He doesn't want us to continue living a sinful life. You cannot continue to live a sinful life and call yourself a Christian and expect that someday paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits your arrival. So gays and lesbians cannot continue with their chosen perverted sinful lifestyles and expect to be saved.

    Homosexuality has never been a part of God’s design for people – and He has never created a person as a homosexual. When He created the very first family, He gave Adam a woman to meet the need for companionship and sexual fulfillment (see Genesis 2:18-25). This has always been God’s design – and it is obvious in the natural and complimentary function of the male and female sex organs and the male and female temperaments.

    Before sin entered the world through man’s disobedience, heterosexual marriage was the only sexual relationship that existed on earth. It was after man’s fall that such things as polygamy (Genesis 4:19), adultery (Genesis 12:17), prostitution (Genesis 38:15), and rape (Genesis 34:2) entered the world. Homosexuality was also an obvious development – as seen by the way it gripped the society of ancient Sodom (Genesis 19:4-5).

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:

    WE HAVE MULTIPLE BRANCHES OF CHRISTIANITY THAT NOW LOVE THE GAY AND LESBIAN POPULATION AS I AM SURE JESUS WOULD, BUT HERE IN THIS THREAD WE CHOOSE TO IGNORE THEM WHY?

    Jesus loves everyone but He doesn't want us to continue living a sinful life. You cannot continue to live a sinful life and call yourself a Christian and expect that someday paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits your arrival. So gays and lesbians cannot continue with their chosen perverted sinful lifestyles and expect to be saved.

    Homosexuality has never been a part of God’s design for people – and He has never created a person as a homosexual. When He created the very first family, He gave Adam a woman to meet the need for companionship and sexual fulfillment (see Genesis 2:18-25). This has always been God’s design – and it is obvious in the natural and complimentary function of the male and female sex organs and the male and female temperaments.

    Before sin entered the world through man’s disobedience, heterosexual marriage was the only sexual relationship that existed on earth. It was after man’s fall that such things as polygamy (Genesis 4:19), adultery (Genesis 12:17), prostitution (Genesis 38:15), and rape (Genesis 34:2) entered the world. Homosexuality was also an obvious development – as seen by the way it gripped the society of ancient Sodom (Genesis 19:4-5).

     
    Arbitrage5
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 3:31 PM ET #480

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:

    what is the big deal?

    I mean he is the son of God, why does it matter that he gave his human life on the cross. What is a human life worth in the Kingdom of God?

    Is this really that big of a sacrifice? Think about it. If he dies at 27 or at 77 what is the difference? If he dies in his sleep or on the cross, what is the big deal? He is the son of God for crying out loud, what would the worldly issues matter for his life when he will spend the next 10,000 years at the right hand of God?

    Puzzling.

    I think the " big deal " is that from God's standpoint He did it becuse He loves us and He knows we cant save ourselves and He wants us to be with Him eternally. But He is still a righteous God who has standards that must be met. People can't meet that standard by their own efforts, so we needed some one who could stand in our place as worthy rpresentive. Human life is worth everything to God. He created us in His image and likeness.And He gave us free will to choose or reject Him by giving us dominion over this planet. I mean really He's GOD, He didnt have to create us or He could've made us like some robot slave worshippers. Jesus paid the price for the wages of sin. Simply...that means He made peace between God and man. God is not mad at us or counting all our actions ( sins ) against us,Jesus made that possible. Think of it as a gift, you can accept it or reject it. What makes hell hell is total seperation from the presence of God...forever. You can choose...choose life. I aint preachin', but your was post was quite provacative, interesting. Have a great day!
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:

    what is the big deal?

    I mean he is the son of God, why does it matter that he gave his human life on the cross. What is a human life worth in the Kingdom of God?

    Is this really that big of a sacrifice? Think about it. If he dies at 27 or at 77 what is the difference? If he dies in his sleep or on the cross, what is the big deal? He is the son of God for crying out loud, what would the worldly issues matter for his life when he will spend the next 10,000 years at the right hand of God?

    Puzzling.

    I think the " big deal " is that from God's standpoint He did it becuse He loves us and He knows we cant save ourselves and He wants us to be with Him eternally. But He is still a righteous God who has standards that must be met. People can't meet that standard by their own efforts, so we needed some one who could stand in our place as worthy rpresentive. Human life is worth everything to God. He created us in His image and likeness.And He gave us free will to choose or reject Him by giving us dominion over this planet. I mean really He's GOD, He didnt have to create us or He could've made us like some robot slave worshippers. Jesus paid the price for the wages of sin. Simply...that means He made peace between God and man. God is not mad at us or counting all our actions ( sins ) against us,Jesus made that possible. Think of it as a gift, you can accept it or reject it. What makes hell hell is total seperation from the presence of God...forever. You can choose...choose life. I aint preachin', but your was post was quite provacative, interesting. Have a great day!
     
    jagerfury
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 7:06 PM ET #481

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Sin is what seperates us from God, Sin is what distorts our vision from us seeing God.This stems from man determing what is right and wrong, man doesnt want to be told how to act, man determining what is right or wrong, man wanting to fulfill there sinful desires.

    Absolute supasitions. There is nothing stated above which passes the minimal standards of logical discourse, or empiracle process.

    What you have stated is an argument from "incongridulity". Idea A is a fact. Therefore no other conclusion than X can be drawn from Idea A. And since I cannot see it any other way, therefore X is correct. Any other conclusion is therefore completly incrediulis. You sir, are an idiot. 

    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Sin is what seperates us from God, Sin is what distorts our vision from us seeing God.This stems from man determing what is right and wrong, man doesnt want to be told how to act, man determining what is right or wrong, man wanting to fulfill there sinful desires.

    Absolute supasitions. There is nothing stated above which passes the minimal standards of logical discourse, or empiracle process.

    What you have stated is an argument from "incongridulity". Idea A is a fact. Therefore no other conclusion than X can be drawn from Idea A. And since I cannot see it any other way, therefore X is correct. Any other conclusion is therefore completly incrediulis. You sir, are an idiot. 

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 7:58 PM ET #482

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Absolute supasitions. There is nothing stated above which passes the minimal standards of logical discourse, or empiracle process.

    Says who? What is that minimum standard? 

    What you have stated is an argument from "incongridulity". Idea A is a fact. Therefore no other conclusion than X can be drawn from Idea A. And since I cannot see it any other way, therefore X is correct. Any other conclusion is therefore completly incrediulis. You sir, are an idiot. 

    It is the central belief of Chirstianity. Do some research before you splat out emotional backwash.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Absolute supasitions. There is nothing stated above which passes the minimal standards of logical discourse, or empiracle process.

    Says who? What is that minimum standard? 

    What you have stated is an argument from "incongridulity". Idea A is a fact. Therefore no other conclusion than X can be drawn from Idea A. And since I cannot see it any other way, therefore X is correct. Any other conclusion is therefore completly incrediulis. You sir, are an idiot. 

    It is the central belief of Chirstianity. Do some research before you splat out emotional backwash.

     
    yesterday
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 8:19 PM ET #483

    I spent a life time trying to understand this world and God, and get answers to all the questions I had, many of the same questions, comments, you are saying here.  I read every post on this thread, not really sure why.  Don't want to argue with any of you.  At some point, you make a decision to go all in with a truth. So I tried many, but they all failed me at some point.  Then I tried Jesus, and not only did he live for sure, man did he die for me, and you, but you will only truly know this if you go all in.  I have peace, forgiveness, love, and I could go on and on, but it is REAL.  I have a Relationship that I will let nothing come between, not this site, not a little wagering, not a little wine, not a little anything if it becomes a big thing that I could never leave, walk away from or that separates me from His love... basically sin.  Nothing comes between me and my Lord.  Straight up, that's the deal, that's the truth.  Demons know it, all the spiritual world knows it.  I've experienced spiritual things that would scare the hell right out of you.  Black angels, orbs, healings, miracles, etc., etc. yeh, it's all real.  That isn't the point.  THE POINT IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE...  where do you stand with it?  If you have the guts to ask yourself the toughest question, like I finally did, being honest to the core, and you believe, trust, have faith, then you will KNOW IT.  But not until then.  Until then you will argue it, and walk away from or put down people that do. You will want proof before you believe, etc., etc.   I was there once.  But faith has it's own logic.  Faith requires you to believe first, without understanding it or finding the logic or proof in it.  Yeh, there's the hitch, there's the bite of it.   There is a God, and you ain't him.  Pretty much all the stuff you read in the bible is true.  Those guys that hung with Jesus were just guys like you and me.  And the same thing that happened to them, can happen to you.  Argue if you will, because you have free will.  there it is.  Where do you stand?  If you don't want this gift, fine, I don't expect any of you to believe if you don't want to. But you will remember these words.  And don't say no one ever told you the gig.  One day, I hope you get to the point where you put your total trust in him. Maybe on your death bed, but better late than never.  But what if you put if off so long, you forget, or you don't have time because you die ubruptly?  I'm not saying, I'm just saying.  Don't be a fool.  At least check it out, but don't check it out like a book, check it out big time, and keep checking it out until you find it, cause you will, eventually.  Seek and you will find. The only real lock in this life is what I am telling you.  Everything else is a loser.  Check this site out, if you want real, here is REAL. Stuff like this happens everyday, you just don't hear about it, because you are not looking for it. 

    https://tutonius.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:my-testimony&catid=31:about-tutonius&Itemid=46
    Reply
    I spent a life time trying to understand this world and God, and get answers to all the questions I had, many of the same questions, comments, you are saying here.  I read every post on this thread, not really sure why.  Don't want to argue with any of you.  At some point, you make a decision to go all in with a truth. So I tried many, but they all failed me at some point.  Then I tried Jesus, and not only did he live for sure, man did he die for me, and you, but you will only truly know this if you go all in.  I have peace, forgiveness, love, and I could go on and on, but it is REAL.  I have a Relationship that I will let nothing come between, not this site, not a little wagering, not a little wine, not a little anything if it becomes a big thing that I could never leave, walk away from or that separates me from His love... basically sin.  Nothing comes between me and my Lord.  Straight up, that's the deal, that's the truth.  Demons know it, all the spiritual world knows it.  I've experienced spiritual things that would scare the hell right out of you.  Black angels, orbs, healings, miracles, etc., etc. yeh, it's all real.  That isn't the point.  THE POINT IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE...  where do you stand with it?  If you have the guts to ask yourself the toughest question, like I finally did, being honest to the core, and you believe, trust, have faith, then you will KNOW IT.  But not until then.  Until then you will argue it, and walk away from or put down people that do. You will want proof before you believe, etc., etc.   I was there once.  But faith has it's own logic.  Faith requires you to believe first, without understanding it or finding the logic or proof in it.  Yeh, there's the hitch, there's the bite of it.   There is a God, and you ain't him.  Pretty much all the stuff you read in the bible is true.  Those guys that hung with Jesus were just guys like you and me.  And the same thing that happened to them, can happen to you.  Argue if you will, because you have free will.  there it is.  Where do you stand?  If you don't want this gift, fine, I don't expect any of you to believe if you don't want to. But you will remember these words.  And don't say no one ever told you the gig.  One day, I hope you get to the point where you put your total trust in him. Maybe on your death bed, but better late than never.  But what if you put if off so long, you forget, or you don't have time because you die ubruptly?  I'm not saying, I'm just saying.  Don't be a fool.  At least check it out, but don't check it out like a book, check it out big time, and keep checking it out until you find it, cause you will, eventually.  Seek and you will find. The only real lock in this life is what I am telling you.  Everything else is a loser.  Check this site out, if you want real, here is REAL. Stuff like this happens everyday, you just don't hear about it, because you are not looking for it. 

    https://tutonius.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:my-testimony&catid=31:about-tutonius&Itemid=46
     
    Spitfire15
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 8:37 PM ET #484

    Quote Originally Posted by yesterday:

    I spent a life time trying to understand this world and God, and get answers to all the questions I had, many of the same questions, comments, you are saying here.  I read every post on this thread, not really sure why.  Don't want to argue with any of you.  At some point, you make a decision to go all in with a truth. So I tried many, but they all failed me at some point.  Then I tried Jesus, and not only did he live for sure, man did he die for me, and you, but you will only truly know this if you go all in.  I have peace, forgiveness, love, and I could go on and on, but it is REAL.  I have a Relationship that I will let nothing come between, not this site, not a little wagering, not a little wine, not a little anything if it becomes a big thing that I could never leave, walk away from or that separates me from His love... basically sin.  Nothing comes between me and my Lord.  Straight up, that's the deal, that's the truth.  Demons know it, all the spiritual world knows it.  I've experienced spiritual things that would scare the hell right out of you.  Black angels, orbs, healings, miracles, etc., etc. yeh, it's all real.  That isn't the point.  THE POINT IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE...  where do you stand with it?  If you have the guts to ask yourself the toughest question, like I finally did, being honest to the core, and you believe, trust, have faith, then you will KNOW IT.  But not until then.  Until then you will argue it, and walk away from or put down people that do. You will want proof before you believe, etc., etc.   I was there once.  But faith has it's own logic.  Faith requires you to believe first, without understanding it or finding the logic or proof in it.  Yeh, there's the hitch, there's the bite of it.   There is a God, and you ain't him.  Pretty much all the stuff you read in the bible is true.  Those guys that hung with Jesus were just guys like you and me.  And the same thing that happened to them, can happen to you.  Argue if you will, because you have free will.  there it is.  Where do you stand?  If you don't want this gift, fine, I don't expect any of you to believe if you don't want to. But you will remember these words.  And don't say no one ever told you the gig.  One day, I hope you get to the point where you put your total trust in him. Maybe on your death bed, but better late than never.  But what if you put if off so long, you forget, or you don't have time because you die ubruptly?  I'm not saying, I'm just saying.  Don't be a fool.  At least check it out, but don't check it out like a book, check it out big time, and keep checking it out until you find it, cause you will, eventually.  Seek and you will find. The only real lock in this life is what I am telling you.  Everything else is a loser.  Check this site out, if you want real, here is REAL. Stuff like this happens everyday, you just don't hear about it, because you are not looking for it. 

    https://tutonius.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:my-testimony&catid=31:about-tutonius&Itemid=46


      Crazy alert
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by yesterday:

    I spent a life time trying to understand this world and God, and get answers to all the questions I had, many of the same questions, comments, you are saying here.  I read every post on this thread, not really sure why.  Don't want to argue with any of you.  At some point, you make a decision to go all in with a truth. So I tried many, but they all failed me at some point.  Then I tried Jesus, and not only did he live for sure, man did he die for me, and you, but you will only truly know this if you go all in.  I have peace, forgiveness, love, and I could go on and on, but it is REAL.  I have a Relationship that I will let nothing come between, not this site, not a little wagering, not a little wine, not a little anything if it becomes a big thing that I could never leave, walk away from or that separates me from His love... basically sin.  Nothing comes between me and my Lord.  Straight up, that's the deal, that's the truth.  Demons know it, all the spiritual world knows it.  I've experienced spiritual things that would scare the hell right out of you.  Black angels, orbs, healings, miracles, etc., etc. yeh, it's all real.  That isn't the point.  THE POINT IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE...  where do you stand with it?  If you have the guts to ask yourself the toughest question, like I finally did, being honest to the core, and you believe, trust, have faith, then you will KNOW IT.  But not until then.  Until then you will argue it, and walk away from or put down people that do. You will want proof before you believe, etc., etc.   I was there once.  But faith has it's own logic.  Faith requires you to believe first, without understanding it or finding the logic or proof in it.  Yeh, there's the hitch, there's the bite of it.   There is a God, and you ain't him.  Pretty much all the stuff you read in the bible is true.  Those guys that hung with Jesus were just guys like you and me.  And the same thing that happened to them, can happen to you.  Argue if you will, because you have free will.  there it is.  Where do you stand?  If you don't want this gift, fine, I don't expect any of you to believe if you don't want to. But you will remember these words.  And don't say no one ever told you the gig.  One day, I hope you get to the point where you put your total trust in him. Maybe on your death bed, but better late than never.  But what if you put if off so long, you forget, or you don't have time because you die ubruptly?  I'm not saying, I'm just saying.  Don't be a fool.  At least check it out, but don't check it out like a book, check it out big time, and keep checking it out until you find it, cause you will, eventually.  Seek and you will find. The only real lock in this life is what I am telling you.  Everything else is a loser.  Check this site out, if you want real, here is REAL. Stuff like this happens everyday, you just don't hear about it, because you are not looking for it. 

    https://tutonius.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:my-testimony&catid=31:about-tutonius&Itemid=46


      Crazy alert
     
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 9:28 PM ET #485

    Just because something is the central fact of a theory doesn't make it "fact". It needs to be tested for validity before it can be taken as fact.

    Just because many people believe the world is flat, and the sun revolves around the sun doesn't make it actually real.

    Just because something is the central belief of something doesn't make any of it true. It has be proven. Tool humans use to establish the truth or falseness of something use the scientific method.

    You sir, are an idiot.
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Just because something is the central fact of a theory doesn't make it "fact". It needs to be tested for validity before it can be taken as fact.

    Just because many people believe the world is flat, and the sun revolves around the sun doesn't make it actually real.

    Just because something is the central belief of something doesn't make any of it true. It has be proven. Tool humans use to establish the truth or falseness of something use the scientific method.

    You sir, are an idiot.
     
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 9:31 PM ET #486

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Don't get the wrong idea that Jesus thought that it was not a big deal being a homosexual and it was cool with Him at the time He was living among us some 2000 years ago.

    His main purpose was to be the savior of mankind, the perfect sacrifice to pay for all the sins of the world. He told us that He didn't come to abolish the laws of Moses or the prophets of the past.

    So sins are still sins and we are all guilty of being sinners but we can redeem ourselves by doing 3 things, the first is to recognize that you are a sinner, secondly ask Jesus for forgiveness and lastly turn away from your sins. If you do the first 2 steps which are easiest to do, then do the 3rd step which is the hardest of all until the day you die, well then paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits your arrival.

    This is complete opinion based on nothing but a single text which has experienced numerous revisions.
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Don't get the wrong idea that Jesus thought that it was not a big deal being a homosexual and it was cool with Him at the time He was living among us some 2000 years ago.

    His main purpose was to be the savior of mankind, the perfect sacrifice to pay for all the sins of the world. He told us that He didn't come to abolish the laws of Moses or the prophets of the past.

    So sins are still sins and we are all guilty of being sinners but we can redeem ourselves by doing 3 things, the first is to recognize that you are a sinner, secondly ask Jesus for forgiveness and lastly turn away from your sins. If you do the first 2 steps which are easiest to do, then do the 3rd step which is the hardest of all until the day you die, well then paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits your arrival.

    This is complete opinion based on nothing but a single text which has experienced numerous revisions.
     
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Oct. 11, 2011 - 9:37 PM ET #487

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Wether you are born with it or NOT, it doesnt mean if you commit the act it is right, murdering is a sin and so is homosexuality.

    End of story. Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing.

    It is no excuse.

    Please support your claim "Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing." And not just ancedotal, or heresay non information.
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Wether you are born with it or NOT, it doesnt mean if you commit the act it is right, murdering is a sin and so is homosexuality.

    End of story. Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing.

    It is no excuse.

    Please support your claim "Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing." And not just ancedotal, or heresay non information.
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Oct. 12, 2011 - 12:24 AM ET #488

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    This is complete opinion based on nothing but a single text which has experienced numerous revisions.

    It is a religious belief based on the Holy Bible which is really not a single text as you put it but it is actually sixty-six texts or books rolled into one. Thirty-nine books make up what we call the Old Testament, and twenty-seven make up the New Testament. God uses many authors-as many as forty-over a time-period of many centuries to write the sixty-six books of the Bible. This makes each book unique. But even though each book has its own style and character, each one contributes to God's life changing message.

    In regard to the numerous revisions of the Holy Bible, the message is still the same. What is that message? Through the Bible, God makes it clear that he loves us and has a plan to save us from the destructive power of sin.


    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    This is complete opinion based on nothing but a single text which has experienced numerous revisions.

    It is a religious belief based on the Holy Bible which is really not a single text as you put it but it is actually sixty-six texts or books rolled into one. Thirty-nine books make up what we call the Old Testament, and twenty-seven make up the New Testament. God uses many authors-as many as forty-over a time-period of many centuries to write the sixty-six books of the Bible. This makes each book unique. But even though each book has its own style and character, each one contributes to God's life changing message.

    In regard to the numerous revisions of the Holy Bible, the message is still the same. What is that message? Through the Bible, God makes it clear that he loves us and has a plan to save us from the destructive power of sin.


     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Oct. 12, 2011 - 1:52 AM ET #489

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Please support your claim "Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing." And not just ancedotal, or heresay non information.

    So if i have a real urge and real desire to kill someone, because i have that urge and desire, does that mean i have to do it?

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Please support your claim "Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing." And not just ancedotal, or heresay non information.

    So if i have a real urge and real desire to kill someone, because i have that urge and desire, does that mean i have to do it?

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Oct. 12, 2011 - 1:56 AM ET #490

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Just because something is the central fact of a theory doesn't make it "fact". It needs to be tested for validity before it can be taken as fact.

    Just because many people believe the world is flat, and the sun revolves around the sun doesn't make it actually real.

    Just because something is the central belief of something doesn't make any of it true. It has be proven. Tool humans use to establish the truth or falseness of something use the scientific method.

    You sir, are an idiot.

    So are you saying that if something is true or exists, it has to be proven?

    If it cant be proven then its not true or real? Is that what you are saying?

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Just because something is the central fact of a theory doesn't make it "fact". It needs to be tested for validity before it can be taken as fact.

    Just because many people believe the world is flat, and the sun revolves around the sun doesn't make it actually real.

    Just because something is the central belief of something doesn't make any of it true. It has be proven. Tool humans use to establish the truth or falseness of something use the scientific method.

    You sir, are an idiot.

    So are you saying that if something is true or exists, it has to be proven?

    If it cant be proven then its not true or real? Is that what you are saying?

     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Oct. 12, 2011 - 3:47 PM ET #491

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Please support your claim "Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing."

    I know you posed this question to Rostos but if I may I would like to answer this. The statement that, "Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing." Is a very true statement unless someone has a gun at your head and are forcing their will upon you to do as he or she wants.

    Everyone has freedom of choice and we all have will power. A person may be addicted to something but could stop this addiction of theirs simply by using their will power, it is not impossible to will yourself to change or stop your bad habits or addiction on whatever it is. We are certainly not programmed robots that have no freedom of choice or will power, we do have the ability to overcome our shortcomings.

    But lets go a step further, in the case of homosexuals, why so many of them insist that they were born homosexuals? Many times in our lives, events happen to us that are out of our control. It is how we deal with these events that will decide our future and how we react to other situations. Young boys sometimes encounter homosexual feelings because their fathers ignored them, thus driving them to side with their mothers and eventually emulate their mothers’ sexual desires. Some people deal with homosexual feelings because they were molested as children.

    The point here is that many people "feel" they are homosexuals – because their desires lean in that direction. These feelings may be reinforced by a childhood experience, an unkind comment from a schoolmate, or by parental rejection. But it does not mean that the person was born a homosexual – any more than people are born murderers, thieves, adulterers, or chronic liars.

    Although a person may "feel" that his or her homosexuality is natural and normal, we must realize that feelings can mislead us. In the book of Jeremiah, we are told:

    "The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9).

    What we may "feel" is right is not necessarily morally right. We cannot trust our feelings to tell us how to live. The bottom line here is that we must live according to the principles of God’s Word, and not according to our feelings and so everyone can refrain from what they are doing which is morally wrong.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Please support your claim "Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing."

    I know you posed this question to Rostos but if I may I would like to answer this. The statement that, "Everyone has a choice to do an act and everyone can refrain from what they are doing." Is a very true statement unless someone has a gun at your head and are forcing their will upon you to do as he or she wants.

    Everyone has freedom of choice and we all have will power. A person may be addicted to something but could stop this addiction of theirs simply by using their will power, it is not impossible to will yourself to change or stop your bad habits or addiction on whatever it is. We are certainly not programmed robots that have no freedom of choice or will power, we do have the ability to overcome our shortcomings.

    But lets go a step further, in the case of homosexuals, why so many of them insist that they were born homosexuals? Many times in our lives, events happen to us that are out of our control. It is how we deal with these events that will decide our future and how we react to other situations. Young boys sometimes encounter homosexual feelings because their fathers ignored them, thus driving them to side with their mothers and eventually emulate their mothers’ sexual desires. Some people deal with homosexual feelings because they were molested as children.

    The point here is that many people "feel" they are homosexuals – because their desires lean in that direction. These feelings may be reinforced by a childhood experience, an unkind comment from a schoolmate, or by parental rejection. But it does not mean that the person was born a homosexual – any more than people are born murderers, thieves, adulterers, or chronic liars.

    Although a person may "feel" that his or her homosexuality is natural and normal, we must realize that feelings can mislead us. In the book of Jeremiah, we are told:

    "The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9).

    What we may "feel" is right is not necessarily morally right. We cannot trust our feelings to tell us how to live. The bottom line here is that we must live according to the principles of God’s Word, and not according to our feelings and so everyone can refrain from what they are doing which is morally wrong.

     
    yesterday
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    Posted: Oct. 12, 2011 - 4:43 PM ET #492

    Spitfire15, jagerfury...  This forum allows for identities to be hidden.  If you knew who I was, you would have to admit I am not an idiot, and I am not crazy.  I don't need to defend myself, and it would take quit a while for me to explain.  However, I will tell you one thing.  I was summoned to pray for a man who was dying.  This man was famous, a billionaire.  Although he attended church his entire life, suddenly he came to face death, and was not ready.  When all he had was eternity staring him in the face, all his logic, education, power, position, standing, wealth, etc. was not enough, in fact it was suddenly worthless.  He wanted , as you say, my "crazy", "idiot" faith.  He would have given everything he had for it, which was what I gave to have it long ago.  But it just doesn't work that way.  You can;t buy eternal life with God.  I was like you once, so sure of myself, my intellect.  I studied philosophy, religions, etc.  So go ahead, insult me, hurl remarks, and even call me crazy.  That is exactly what they called and thought of Jesus. The truth is a lonely place to be sometimes.  But let me ask you this.  If I am right, and Jesus is the only way to spend eternity in heaven, and you are wrong, what will He think of you when you stand in judgement on THAT day?  So, you have the "guts" to call me crazy, and hurl insults like you are someone to be reckoned with, at me, when my only reason for even writing this is to help you, cause I am good to go with my belief.  Just read the new testament one time, all the way through.  I'll bet you won't.  Because if you do, you might just see that I am NOT crazy, and Faith is logical.  But whatever you do, I hope the best for you. 
    Reply
    Spitfire15, jagerfury...  This forum allows for identities to be hidden.  If you knew who I was, you would have to admit I am not an idiot, and I am not crazy.  I don't need to defend myself, and it would take quit a while for me to explain.  However, I will tell you one thing.  I was summoned to pray for a man who was dying.  This man was famous, a billionaire.  Although he attended church his entire life, suddenly he came to face death, and was not ready.  When all he had was eternity staring him in the face, all his logic, education, power, position, standing, wealth, etc. was not enough, in fact it was suddenly worthless.  He wanted , as you say, my "crazy", "idiot" faith.  He would have given everything he had for it, which was what I gave to have it long ago.  But it just doesn't work that way.  You can;t buy eternal life with God.  I was like you once, so sure of myself, my intellect.  I studied philosophy, religions, etc.  So go ahead, insult me, hurl remarks, and even call me crazy.  That is exactly what they called and thought of Jesus. The truth is a lonely place to be sometimes.  But let me ask you this.  If I am right, and Jesus is the only way to spend eternity in heaven, and you are wrong, what will He think of you when you stand in judgement on THAT day?  So, you have the "guts" to call me crazy, and hurl insults like you are someone to be reckoned with, at me, when my only reason for even writing this is to help you, cause I am good to go with my belief.  Just read the new testament one time, all the way through.  I'll bet you won't.  Because if you do, you might just see that I am NOT crazy, and Faith is logical.  But whatever you do, I hope the best for you. 
     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: Oct. 13, 2011 - 1:35 AM ET #493

    Faith is inherently illogical...not to say you can't have it, but don't try and say it's logical.
    Reply
    Faith is inherently illogical...not to say you can't have it, but don't try and say it's logical.
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Oct. 13, 2011 - 2:19 AM ET #494

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    Faith is inherently illogical...not to say you can't have it, but don't try and say it's logical.

    Every human being has FAITH in one way shape or form.

    It is the make up of every human being.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    Faith is inherently illogical...not to say you can't have it, but don't try and say it's logical.

    Every human being has FAITH in one way shape or form.

    It is the make up of every human being.

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Oct. 13, 2011 - 2:21 AM ET #495

    When you go to bed at night, is there any empirical evidence that you are going to wake up the next morning?

    Your response is going to be, "well, based on deductive reasoning, i have woken up every day folliwng the night i have slept, so there is no good to reason to think i wont wake up the next day, no faith is needed here."

    Sure, tell that to the millions of people that have died in there sleep.

    Reply

    When you go to bed at night, is there any empirical evidence that you are going to wake up the next morning?

    Your response is going to be, "well, based on deductive reasoning, i have woken up every day folliwng the night i have slept, so there is no good to reason to think i wont wake up the next day, no faith is needed here."

    Sure, tell that to the millions of people that have died in there sleep.

     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Oct. 13, 2011 - 3:10 PM ET #496

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    Faith is inherently illogical...not to say you can't have it, but don't try and say it's logical.

    If you're referring to the unquestioning belief in God then naturally the atheist will say faith is inherently illogical but to the believer it will be just the opposite.

    To us Christians, our faith is logical because we have 3 sources of material that points to a God, a Creator. First, there is the Bible. Second , there is nature. Third, there is man. These point to the Creator. None are possible by happenstance. None could have been produced by accident.

    Not having faith is senseless because if you don't believe in a Creator, then you must believe everything that exists happened by accident. How can that be? Things just don't exist accidently, that is not logical.

     If you can't come up with an explanation on how existence came to be then who are you to claim that we who do have faith and have an explanation are illogical in our reasonings. Our faith tells us everything came to be by the creation of Almighty God.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    Faith is inherently illogical...not to say you can't have it, but don't try and say it's logical.

    If you're referring to the unquestioning belief in God then naturally the atheist will say faith is inherently illogical but to the believer it will be just the opposite.

    To us Christians, our faith is logical because we have 3 sources of material that points to a God, a Creator. First, there is the Bible. Second , there is nature. Third, there is man. These point to the Creator. None are possible by happenstance. None could have been produced by accident.

    Not having faith is senseless because if you don't believe in a Creator, then you must believe everything that exists happened by accident. How can that be? Things just don't exist accidently, that is not logical.

     If you can't come up with an explanation on how existence came to be then who are you to claim that we who do have faith and have an explanation are illogical in our reasonings. Our faith tells us everything came to be by the creation of Almighty God.

     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posts: 1988
    Posted: Oct. 13, 2011 - 4:54 PM ET #497

    Actually, things do exist accidental. SJD, youre a moron, we get it. I don't get why I even bother. I don't make ANY unsubstantiated claims, but you and Rostos think its ok to just say things as fact like "none are possible by happenstance." Once again, I will not say they are 100% accidents. I think they are, but truth is, I don't know for sure. But it is IMPOSSIBLE to say for certain that this is impossible.

    Not having faith makes perfect sense because the concept of a creator defies all logic we know as humans. If you can't accept the fact that everything occurred by accident, then that's fine. Go believe in your magic man in the sky. I can accept that because my brain can't comprehend that which defies nature.

    As for Rostos, you hit the nail right on the head my man. Deductive reasoning, logic. I'm not having "faith" that I will wake up. I'm logically concluding it is a very, very likely outcome. The same way I logically conclude the existence of a creator is a very, very unlikely outcome (I could be wrong, but I'm merely playing the odds here, don't we all lol). Do not conflate logic/reasoning with faith. When I say, "I reason and conclude that I will wake up in the morning," the next morning, I wake up and say, "I was right." If I didn't wake up, whoever found me dead would be able to say, "He was wrong." And that is the fundamental difference between reason and faith, the possibility of proof. "I believe there is a god." No one can possibly know this for certain until they die (and then what good is that). Faith is not testable, logic and reason are.

    SJD has concluded based on his inability to comprehend probability and the series of bullshit stories a few old guys wrote down thousands of years ago that a creator exists. His logic is valid (although it may not be sound, we can't know this until we die). The fact that we cannot know this, means there is faith. He is allowed to have faith, we all are, but concluding I will wake up in the morning, or make it to school alive, or that the Trojans will win tonight is not faith, it is logic and reason (even if it turns out to be wrong).
    Reply
    Actually, things do exist accidental. SJD, youre a moron, we get it. I don't get why I even bother. I don't make ANY unsubstantiated claims, but you and Rostos think its ok to just say things as fact like "none are possible by happenstance." Once again, I will not say they are 100% accidents. I think they are, but truth is, I don't know for sure. But it is IMPOSSIBLE to say for certain that this is impossible.

    Not having faith makes perfect sense because the concept of a creator defies all logic we know as humans. If you can't accept the fact that everything occurred by accident, then that's fine. Go believe in your magic man in the sky. I can accept that because my brain can't comprehend that which defies nature.

    As for Rostos, you hit the nail right on the head my man. Deductive reasoning, logic. I'm not having "faith" that I will wake up. I'm logically concluding it is a very, very likely outcome. The same way I logically conclude the existence of a creator is a very, very unlikely outcome (I could be wrong, but I'm merely playing the odds here, don't we all lol). Do not conflate logic/reasoning with faith. When I say, "I reason and conclude that I will wake up in the morning," the next morning, I wake up and say, "I was right." If I didn't wake up, whoever found me dead would be able to say, "He was wrong." And that is the fundamental difference between reason and faith, the possibility of proof. "I believe there is a god." No one can possibly know this for certain until they die (and then what good is that). Faith is not testable, logic and reason are.

    SJD has concluded based on his inability to comprehend probability and the series of bullshit stories a few old guys wrote down thousands of years ago that a creator exists. His logic is valid (although it may not be sound, we can't know this until we die). The fact that we cannot know this, means there is faith. He is allowed to have faith, we all are, but concluding I will wake up in the morning, or make it to school alive, or that the Trojans will win tonight is not faith, it is logic and reason (even if it turns out to be wrong).
     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Oct. 13, 2011 - 5:37 PM ET #498

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    Actually, things do exist accidental. SJD, youre a moron, we get it. I don't get why I even bother. I don't make ANY unsubstantiated claims, but you and Rostos think its ok to just say things as fact like "none are possible by happenstance." Once again, I will not say they are 100% accidents. I think they are, but truth is, I don't know for sure. But it is IMPOSSIBLE to say for certain that this is impossible.

    Not having faith makes perfect sense because the concept of a creator defies all logic we know as humans. If you can't accept the fact that everything occurred by accident, then that's fine. Go believe in your magic man in the sky. I can accept that because my brain can't comprehend that which defies nature.

    As for Rostos, you hit the nail right on the head my man. Deductive reasoning, logic. I'm not having "faith" that I will wake up. I'm logically concluding it is a very, very likely outcome. The same way I logically conclude the existence of a creator is a very, very unlikely outcome (I could be wrong, but I'm merely playing the odds here, don't we all lol). Do not conflate logic/reasoning with faith. When I say, "I reason and conclude that I will wake up in the morning," the next morning, I wake up and say, "I was right." If I didn't wake up, whoever found me dead would be able to say, "He was wrong." And that is the fundamental difference between reason and faith, the possibility of proof. "I believe there is a god." No one can possibly know this for certain until they die (and then what good is that). Faith is not testable, logic and reason are.

    SJD has concluded based on his inability to comprehend probability and the series of bullshit stories a few old guys wrote down thousands of years ago that a creator exists. His logic is valid (although it may not be sound, we can't know this until we die). The fact that we cannot know this, means there is faith. He is allowed to have faith, we all are, but concluding I will wake up in the morning, or make it to school alive, or that the Trojans will win tonight is not faith, it is logic and reason (even if it turns out to be wrong).

    But is it guaranteed? do you have empirical evidence that it will happen?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    Actually, things do exist accidental. SJD, youre a moron, we get it. I don't get why I even bother. I don't make ANY unsubstantiated claims, but you and Rostos think its ok to just say things as fact like "none are possible by happenstance." Once again, I will not say they are 100% accidents. I think they are, but truth is, I don't know for sure. But it is IMPOSSIBLE to say for certain that this is impossible.

    Not having faith makes perfect sense because the concept of a creator defies all logic we know as humans. If you can't accept the fact that everything occurred by accident, then that's fine. Go believe in your magic man in the sky. I can accept that because my brain can't comprehend that which defies nature.

    As for Rostos, you hit the nail right on the head my man. Deductive reasoning, logic. I'm not having "faith" that I will wake up. I'm logically concluding it is a very, very likely outcome. The same way I logically conclude the existence of a creator is a very, very unlikely outcome (I could be wrong, but I'm merely playing the odds here, don't we all lol). Do not conflate logic/reasoning with faith. When I say, "I reason and conclude that I will wake up in the morning," the next morning, I wake up and say, "I was right." If I didn't wake up, whoever found me dead would be able to say, "He was wrong." And that is the fundamental difference between reason and faith, the possibility of proof. "I believe there is a god." No one can possibly know this for certain until they die (and then what good is that). Faith is not testable, logic and reason are.

    SJD has concluded based on his inability to comprehend probability and the series of bullshit stories a few old guys wrote down thousands of years ago that a creator exists. His logic is valid (although it may not be sound, we can't know this until we die). The fact that we cannot know this, means there is faith. He is allowed to have faith, we all are, but concluding I will wake up in the morning, or make it to school alive, or that the Trojans will win tonight is not faith, it is logic and reason (even if it turns out to be wrong).

    But is it guaranteed? do you have empirical evidence that it will happen?

     
    KittyKatz286
    KittyKatz286
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 1988
    Posted: Oct. 13, 2011 - 6:29 PM ET #499

    It's not guaranteed, but it doesn't have to be because I will know with 100% certainty whether it happens or not.

    None of us will EVER know with 100% certainty whether god exists.
    Reply
    It's not guaranteed, but it doesn't have to be because I will know with 100% certainty whether it happens or not.

    None of us will EVER know with 100% certainty whether god exists.
     
     
    boberts427
    boberts427
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    Joined: Mar, 2008
    Posts: 4934
    Posted: Oct. 13, 2011 - 6:42 PM ET #500

    those who have had an encounter can have 100% certainty that God is real

    i understand that those who haven't and are also without faith, does not have 100% certainty

    those with faith but w/o an encounter can be 99% sure of God, he says as long as you have a mustard seed of faith.

     

     

    Reply

    those who have had an encounter can have 100% certainty that God is real

    i understand that those who haven't and are also without faith, does not have 100% certainty

    those with faith but w/o an encounter can be 99% sure of God, he says as long as you have a mustard seed of faith.

     

     

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