Posted:
#526
Quote Originally Posted by Killer_B:
Maybe He was working on designing humans and smaller animals we now have while the dinosaurs he created roamed the earth.
If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity
Posted:
#529
Quote Originally Posted by Killer_B:
All the luck going around, it's a wonder we ever pick a loser.
All the luck going around, it's a wonder we ever pick a loser.
Perhaps we should all be shaped like rabbits feet:)
I am surprised System just doesnt sit in his backyard and wait for $1 mill to fall from the sky.
After all, it is all about luck. Things do pop into existence from nothing. So why not a million dollars?
Why is is such a mystery
Posted:
#534
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
2 things
1. You are OPEN to the idea that something can pop into existence from nothing? because hawking said? You are appealing to the fallacy of authority here. NOTHING can pop into existence from nothing, NOT even virtual particles. Hawking is playing a simple "accounting" trick here. he is effectively saying, if i travel from A to point B and then return the same way i came back to my original point - i never went anywhere cause it balances each other out. He should stick to science.
2. You say you dont know, but it wasnt God. A bit of contradiction there huh? To be consistent, you should say, "It could be God"
1. Stephen Hawking is one of the most brilliant minds to ever live. I think I can justifiably appeal to his authority.
2. No you're right, it COULD be god...but it could also be countless other things. I don't KNOW.
Posted:
#535
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
1. Stephen Hawking is one of the most brilliant minds to ever live. I think I can justifiably appeal to his authority.
Yes, In science. He should stick to science and leave philosophy to others.
2. No you're right, it COULD be god...but it could also be countless other things. I don't KNOW.
Aha
Posted:
#536
Why would a loving God send his beloved son down to get nailed on a cross by some crazy m'effers???????????????? Why would a loving God require that his perfect son pay for the sins of the world??????????? Doesn't make sense to me.
So that he is a bridge from the sinners to God? Well that is a bridge to nowhere IMO.
To show them that they shouldn't mess around with the son of the creator of the universe?
Perhaps the message should be that evil people shouldn't mess around with anyone even the least of these. Wouldn't that be a better message??????????????
I sure think so.
So that he is a bridge from the sinners to God? Well that is a bridge to nowhere IMO.
To show them that they shouldn't mess around with the son of the creator of the universe?
Perhaps the message should be that evil people shouldn't mess around with anyone even the least of these. Wouldn't that be a better message??????????????
I sure think so.
Posted:
#538
Hawking never considered spiritual theory in his equations. Using only the known components of physics, something cannot come from nothing. The Big Bang mathematical equation requires a factor from the spirit to be proven. Anyone that does not accept that there is a spirit world will only consider that which can be proven using the table of elements and the known matter of the universe. I suppose that as we are able to see deeper into the universe that we will discover new matter and new elements to consider, which will change even Hawking's theories and those of other physicists. Even he would admit that. So we may never find certainty in physics, since the addition of new information will continue to change the results. However, spiritual laws cannot be changed and are constant. Consider this logic treatment (If - then logic)... If when your bodies dies, then you live on as spirit, where does your spirit dwell? We are here for what, maybe 80 years if we are fortunate. Eternity is how long, oh yes, infinity. I think it is logical, and in my best interest, to solve the equation where I will spend eternity, than where I live today or tomorrow.
Posted:
#539
Quote Originally Posted by lancer89074:
1. Why would a loving God send his beloved son down to get nailed on a cross by some crazy m'effers???????????????? 2. Why would a loving God require that his perfect son pay for the sins of the world??????????? Doesn't make sense to me.
3. So that he is a bridge from the sinners to God? 4. Well that is a bridge to nowhere IMO.
To show them that they shouldn't mess around with the son of the creator of the universe?
5. Perhaps the message should be that evil people shouldn't mess around with anyone even the least of these. Wouldn't that be a better message??????????????
I sure think so.
1. Why would a loving God send his beloved son down to get nailed on a cross by some crazy m'effers???????????????? 2. Why would a loving God require that his perfect son pay for the sins of the world??????????? Doesn't make sense to me.
3. So that he is a bridge from the sinners to God? 4. Well that is a bridge to nowhere IMO.
To show them that they shouldn't mess around with the son of the creator of the universe?
5. Perhaps the message should be that evil people shouldn't mess around with anyone even the least of these. Wouldn't that be a better message??????????????
I sure think so.
1. Because God's plan is for you to live with him in heaven. "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16). Before Adam and Eve sinned (Genesis 3), they had a good relationship with God. Therefore, they were not ashamed to come into God's presence. But after they sinned, their relationship with God changed, and they were ashamed to come into God's physical presence. Sin had separated them and the entire human race-including you-from God. But God did not want sin to keep people from having a relationship with him. So he provided a way in which people could be cleansed of their sins and live with him in heaven forever. He gave his only Son, Jesus, as the perfect payment for everyone's sins.
So this should answer your first question thoroughly and adequately for your complete understanding hopefully.
2. Only Jesus could pay for the sins of mankind because He was the only one without sin, He was the perfect sacrifice, there was no other way, how could a sinner pay for everyone's sins when that sinner was a sinner himself? God is so just that He never demands two payments for one debt. Jesus paid your sin debt on the Cross---all of it. Therefore, when you accept Christ, you do not have that sin debt to pay and this is how you are made righteous again in the eyes of the Lord.
3. Yes, that is the bridge from sinners to God, to accept that Jesus Christ is your Lord Savior who paid for your sins.
4. No, you are wrong when you say that it is a bridge to nowhere, quite the contrary, it is the bridge to paradise...paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven for all eternity! That is the greatest gift anyone can ever receive. Nothing in this materialistic world could even come close to the gift of eternal life in paradise...nothing...nothing at all!!!
5. The main message God was converying over to us is that because we are all sinners the only way we could enter His Kingdom of Heaven was to accept that His Son Jesus Christ died for our sins and then to obey all His laws. So someday when you die, you will resurrect from the dead just like how our Savior Jesus Christ did and ascend to paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven!...amen! 
Posted:
#542
For what it's worth...
The believers state their case. The deniers have to lob the insults. Why is that? I don't remember 1 instance of Rostos, myself or SJD not being civil for what we believe in. I've been called a moron and a retard, because I believe in a higher power. Why's it got to get ugly? Can't we all just state our cases (believers) and doubters (deniers) and get along? Funny how even in a discussion it gets into a form of Good vs. Evil.
Some believe the guy in a wheelchair. Although a smart guy, he's a scientist. Science requires proof and there isn't any.
Question: Do the non believers believe that when you die it's over? No afterlife whatsoever? I'd like to know that.
Posted:
#543
KillerB - you are not a moron or retard because you believe in a higher power. You are a moron and a retard for making an unsubstantiated claim that shows your ignorance about probability; there is a difference. No one is dumb just for believing in a higher power (although I do admit, once I find out a person believes in god, I immediately think they are much less intelligent than I previously thought). And to answer your question: Yes. When you die, that's it. Game over.
Yesterday - Hawking should not consider spiritual theory because he is a scientist and that would be stupid. "Something cannot come from nothing." So now you're smarter than Hawking? He proved it is theoretically possible for something to come from nothing in the quantum world. So you can't just say "something can't come from nothing" when it can (doesn't mean it did, just that it can).
And your allusion to Pascal's wager is flawed. Pascal's wager is bullshit because if you only believe in god because the consequences of there being a god are you not believing in him are worse, we both know that the god you believe in would see right through that: so either you believe in god for the right reasons or you don't believe at all.
SJD - Yes, I admit it is a possibility, but I believe the odds of a god existing are less than .00001%. At least for me, there is way too much shit in the world that is completely incompatible with the concept of a god, or at least the concept of god as you envision.
atheist
Posted:
#545
KK your all wrong on several points. First of all I'm not a moron or a retard. Secondly, I don't believe in God because I fear him. Furthermore, I believe because of the miracles of life. Every breath you take is a miracle. Intelligent life, spiritual life, the ability to build the world that we live in is a miracle to me in itself. Is the world a bad place? On some fronts yes, but for the most part no.
If we descended from animals (evolution), where did the spiritual part of us come from. Keep your shirt on, I'm not talking about beliefs, I'm talking about being moved by music, art, living or dying with a team, etc. We're spiritual beings for a reason (I believe).
So if I believed what you believe, what's the point of living? It's going to end one day anyway. Who cares what you do, who you screw over, etc. It all doesn't matter. In an ironic twist, it does scares me that if you die, that's it. Because I believe otherwise, although I don't want to die, I don't fear death. I've never believed that when you die, that's it, and I'm happy about it. I've talked to people that were in physical peril and they knew it, their organs were shutting down, they told me about a peaceful feeling before being brought back by medical people. That's what I'm hoping for - the term Rest in Peace comes to mind.
I would like to hear your theory on how intelligent human life developed.
Posted:
#546
Well I don't believe life has a purpose. Why does there have to be one? My life, your life, SJD's life, Rostos' life, they're all completely and utterly meaningless. The reason I get so aggravated is because you make claims that are fundamentally flawed like you just did again.
Where did our love for music, art, etc. come from? Did you know personality is a part of the brain? You can actually remove part of your brain and change your personality, characteristics, etc. It's all scientific. Animals have emotions, too. The ability to like and enjoy things is natural, it's not something that needs a magic creator to explain.
If you believe life is a miracle, that's fine, but it is a fact that it is not. By definition, a miracle is a rare event, and life is quite common on this planet. To think about how society has evolved is astonishing. To think that once there was nothing and now there are cities and computers is amazing, but I would hardly call it a miracle; after all, it did take 14.7 billion years.
For me it comes down to this. Whenever I think about the universe and the concept of a being that defies every bit of logic we know that governs the world we live in, it just makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't care about what happens when I die because I'll be dead. Bottom line: the existence of a god contributes nothing to the enhancement of my life, so I have no reason to believe.
Posted:
#547
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
KillerB - you are not a moron or retard because you believe in a higher power. You are a moron and a retard for making an unsubstantiated claim that shows your ignorance about probability; there is a difference. No one is dumb just for believing in a higher power (although I do admit, once I find out a person believes in god, I immediately think they are much less intelligent than I previously thought). And to answer your question: Yes. When you die, that's it. Game over.
KillerB - you are not a moron or retard because you believe in a higher power. You are a moron and a retard for making an unsubstantiated claim that shows your ignorance about probability; there is a difference. No one is dumb just for believing in a higher power (although I do admit, once I find out a person believes in god, I immediately think they are much less intelligent than I previously thought). And to answer your question: Yes. When you die, that's it. Game over.
Yesterday - Hawking should not consider spiritual theory because he is a scientist and that would be stupid. "Something cannot come from nothing." So now you're smarter than Hawking? He proved it is theoretically possible for something to come from nothing in the quantum world. So you can't just say "something can't come from nothing" when it can (doesn't mean it did, just that it can).
And your allusion to Pascal's wager is flawed. Pascal's wager is bullshit because if you only believe in god because the consequences of there being a god are you not believing in him are worse, we both know that the god you believe in would see right through that: so either you believe in god for the right reasons or you don't believe at all.
SJD - Yes, I admit it is a possibility, but I believe the odds of a god existing are less than .00001%. At least for me, there is way too much shit in the world that is completely incompatible with the concept of a god, or at least the concept of god as you envision.
So you state the possibility of God being less than 0.00001%.
What do you think the odds are that
1. Something popped into existence from nothing, THEN,,
2. The rate of expansion was so specific that a slight variation means NO UNIVERSE, THEN,
3. The distances from the earth to the moon to the sun is so specific, that even a small variation means no life, THEN,
4. Lightning struck a pond which somehow resulted in a living cell, THEN,
5. This single cell organism split, and we went from becoming ocean creatures to humans.
You do realise the probability of all that happening is about 20 pages of zeroes?
Funny how you tend to stick to those probabilities than an intelligent mind behind everything than everything happening by luck. Well, in the case of the origins of the universe, for you its not even luck, its magic without the magician.
Seriously, cmon
Posted:
#548
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Well I don't believe life has a purpose. Why does there have to be one? My life, your life, SJD's life, Rostos' life, they're all completely and utterly meaningless. The reason I get so aggravated is because you make claims that are fundamentally flawed like you just did again.
Well I don't believe life has a purpose. Why does there have to be one? My life, your life, SJD's life, Rostos' life, they're all completely and utterly meaningless. The reason I get so aggravated is because you make claims that are fundamentally flawed like you just did again.
Where did our love for music, art, etc. come from? Did you know personality is a part of the brain? You can actually remove part of your brain and change your personality, characteristics, etc. It's all scientific. Animals have emotions, too. The ability to like and enjoy things is natural, it's not something that needs a magic creator to explain.
If you believe life is a miracle, that's fine, but it is a fact that it is not. By definition, a miracle is a rare event, and life is quite common on this planet. To think about how society has evolved is astonishing. To think that once there was nothing and now there are cities and computers is amazing, but I would hardly call it a miracle; after all, it did take 14.7 billion years.
For me it comes down to this. Whenever I think about the universe and the concept of a being that defies every bit of logic we know that governs the world we live in, it just makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't care about what happens when I die because I'll be dead. Bottom line: the existence of a god contributes nothing to the enhancement of my life, so I have no reason to believe.
Your last paragraph typifies your stance.
You BELIEVE that when you die, thats it, nothing. You know what? That is exactly what you will get. You will never see the face of God if you reject his existence and love. Its not about fires etc etc, you simply wont see his face (which is what the soul ultimately longs for), but pride stops it from succeding.
You BELIEVE thats it, and i tell you, that is what you will get.
Thankfully for you, you have till your last breath to believe and accept God because Gods grace is so great and hos forgiveness, we see from the bible that even until the last breath you take, you can accept God and Christ as your saviour and it wont be too late.
Posted:
#549
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Well I don't believe life has a purpose. Why does there have to be one? My life, your life, SJD's life, Rostos' life, they're all completely and utterly meaningless. The reason I get so aggravated is because you make claims that are fundamentally flawed like you just did again.
Well I don't believe life has a purpose. Why does there have to be one? My life, your life, SJD's life, Rostos' life, they're all completely and utterly meaningless. The reason I get so aggravated is because you make claims that are fundamentally flawed like you just did again.
Where did our love for music, art, etc. come from? Did you know personality is a part of the brain? You can actually remove part of your brain and change your personality, characteristics, etc. It's all scientific. Animals have emotions, too. The ability to like and enjoy things is natural, it's not something that needs a magic creator to explain.
If you believe life is a miracle, that's fine, but it is a fact that it is not. By definition, a miracle is a rare event, and life is quite common on this planet. To think about how society has evolved is astonishing. To think that once there was nothing and now there are cities and computers is amazing, but I would hardly call it a miracle; after all, it did take 14.7 billion years.
For me it comes down to this. Whenever I think about the universe and the concept of a being that defies every bit of logic we know that governs the world we live in, it just makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't care about what happens when I die because I'll be dead. Bottom line: the existence of a god contributes nothing to the enhancement of my life, so I have no reason to believe.
You have every right to chose to believe as you do, with empirical evidence as your base. Let me ask you a question. What is fear? What is love? Do you experience these at all? You have to admit that you do, but how can you prove they exist, using physical evidence? Are they spiritual or do you explain them as just an extension of the human experience? The paradox that can't be proven in your theory is this. You represent that in order for there to be a God, one God, a creator, you must understand him first, before you believe. But your very existence as compared to Him is so inferior that you could never begin to understand such a being as great as He is to have been able to create the universe and life itself. So for you, for him to exist, he would have to be on the same level of your abilities. Can you create anything, much less a universe? That is impossible. So at least in your mind, regardless of the evidence or lack thereof, god will never exist to you. Therefore you will always win your argument. Congratulations. Do you really think, having read all I've written, that you can convince me that there is NOT a God? So it makes me wonder why you are even asking questions or challenging our suggestions. The bottom line is you want to be god, your own god. You are not seeking truth in earnest, because if you were, you would at least examine the evidence of those who have experienced the spirit world, God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, angels, etc. I can assure you there is a lot of it. Consider this. You experience a lot of the spirit world everyday, you just don't acknowledge it, because you want to be right, by simply denying that it exists. I am not saying that just because I believe something, that you have to believe it, based on my experience. I wouldn't expect that. That premise doesn't work anyway. I do hope that one day you will experience it in a way that you cannot deny it, and then you can answer the questions for yourself.
Posted:
#550
There is no such thing as luck. The premise of luck is a subconscious need to believe in something greater than ourselves controlling the outcome of an event because we feel we do not have the ability to control that outcome. Logically, if we believe in God, and that there is an order to everything and a purpose. Even though we make choices beyond our intellectual abilities, we control our outcomes, and that which cannot be controlled by us is controlled by God, therefore there is no such thing as luck. We are either more or less fortunate in the outcome of our decisions, and we live with them. If we are looking or asking for help beyond our abilities, and ( now KK don't go ballistic) those would be blessings from God.
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