Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes'

you people are suck.. you make me physically ill. all of you fucking pussies sitting behind your computers, working your pathetic,  white collar essentially meaningless jobs, w/AC/ w your sissy lunch breaks, living essentially a meaningless existence... along with being COWARDS down deep, who leave the "dirty work" up to someone else, calling them names, justifying to themselves that they are "too smart" or politically savvy...lol, to enlist to enter the military..."people who join the military can't get jobs"..well, all that is BS.

People join the military for a million reasons, not even necessarily for a  job, but because it's something that they they want to do, are proud to do and think it's a great opportunity in their lives. Who the fuck do you people think you are anyway???

Soldiers are comrades-in-arms for each other far more than for any external cause. They are brave, willing to run into gunfire and head into combat. Yet, they generally do it for their buddies, not for the politician who had sent them there.

That makes them heroes in their own personal experiences and in the eyes of their colleagues for whom they will risk their lives. But it does not make the causes in which they fight and die heroic.

that is the distinction between the soldier fighting and the cause they are fighting for. Many posters are just focusing on the cause, and debating if the cause is just or unjust.

As a recent example

These people were heroes and were awarded medals.

They threw those medals back at NATO leaders as they did not believe the cause was heroic.

And to cause more confusion, their act of throwing the medals back was described as heroic.

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US war veterans tossing medals back at Nato was a heroic act

Nato summit leaders should have been forced to watch the moving protest of the former troops chucking their medals away


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"The world needs heroes and it's better they be harmless men like me than villains like Hitler"

Einstein

Lol you obviously have major anger issues.  Hutch makes a decent point and voices his opinion and for that you call him a "Cocksucker with a box white collar job" etc

You are obviously in the military or ex-military and let me tell you, your not doing your compatriots any favors by coming off like a petulant, indignant blowhard who talks down to anyone who disagrees with you.

And yes, people join the military for MANY different reasons.  Some do it because they want to serve their country and give something back, and those that enlist for those reasons are obviously doing it for noble causes.

However some people join the military JUST for money, for school or whatever.  Doesn't mean they aren't good people, but they CERTAINLY aren't doing it for love of Country, or because they feel the need to Serve.  They see it as a means to an end, that they can't get anywhere else.  Not really too different than taking out loans to go through college, so you can get one of those "box white collar jobs" that you seem so against (of which I'm sure you'll never have one, you seem so anti-white collar, it must have something to do with personal experience or lack thereof).

And then you have people who join the military ONLY b/c they have no other options.  It's basically military or end up doing bad shit and going to jail or working menial minimum wage jobs, so what the fuck....might as well enlist.  You're out of your mind if you don't think people enlist for these reasons, and I certainly would not think that this class of enlistees are doing so because of love for country, or the need to give something back or anything like that.  The military is their best and usually only chance at a straight and normal life, whether due to lack of education or opportunities.  Doens't make them bad people, but certainly not heroic imo. 


Point being is that while lots of military people enlist for noble and possibly "heroic" reasons, certainly not everyone in the military is a "hero" or even for that matter a good person.  And you sowhat83 make yourself look like a fool by positing that EVERY US solider is some sort of super-hero/ saving babies from burning buildings/ ending apartheid type "hero" when obviously that is FAR from the case.  A lot of soliders are just normal dudes, who aren't necessarily the bravest or most noble cats.  Again doesn't make them bad people, just not all of them are heroes. 
 

Curious about the bold type....

You do realize that the vast majority of free industrialized nations.....Germany, Italy, Japan, Denmark, Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, Norway, France, Australia, etc, etc, etc , etc, etc I could go on all day..........they have NO current conflicts that they are involved with...

Meaning these countries DO NOT have unwanted military presences anywhere. 

I'm curious as to how your "Freedom is not Free" applies to these countries.....I mean they all are very free and their people enjoy ALL the liberties and freedoms we as Americans do.  Yet they are not stationing troops in countries where they are not wanted.  These countries are not trying to be the world's policeman.

So how is it that these countries operate freely yet they are not involved in any current conflicts?  Looks like they don't really need a military presence to enjoy freedom like you are suggesting the United States does? 

Also in another post you mentioned 'Go over to Soviet Russia and see how you like it...."   Any you know what?  Maybe one day when they invent time travel I'll go back to the Soviet Union in the 80's and check it out.  Unfortunately due to a lack of technological progress on that front it might not happen anytime soon, so "Go to Soviet Russia" isn't really an option, good argument though 


Anyway, you're obviously a good-old boy who's very proud of his country, and that's all good.  Just know that if you were born in Germany circa 1925 or so there is a FANTASTIC chance that your nationalistic ass would have been a proud Heil Hitler saluting Nazi.  If you're this fanatic about American pride and military respect etc, I REALLY find it hard to believe someone with your personality in Germany at that time would not have embraced the Nazi culture.  Something to chew on next time you're going off on one of your ridiculous rants. 

^ oh my fault that wasn't you who made the point about "going to Communist Russia sometime"


That was some other dumbass.  My bad

good discussion.

The day he stepped foot in Vietnam he was a hero.

Most of the mentioned countries are members of NATO and they are actually pretty active in Afghanistan.
Even my country, Sweden, who isn't a member of NATO has troops there (500).

About the hero thing. Well, guess it's in the eye of the beholder.
Most Afghan women and girls see the soldiers as heros as now they can go to school, get a job, get a life. Guess most people are happy that the daily beheadings for wearing non-islamic clothes have come to an end.

Maybe part of the reason why we haven't had any major terror attack in the West for a long time has to do with the effort in Afghanistan. Al Quaeda has been busy at home.
Now we're fighting domestic terrorists who frequently get caught as they're not so "professional" as the real deal from the Middle East/Afghanistan, Pakistan.

Well, the people we fight in every war we get ourselves into think their fighters are hero's too. The whole deal needs to end and then there's nothing for us to disagree about. 

I have to wonder if our perceptions of heroism in troops are somewhat shaped by the difference in wars between WWII and those after and volunterism vs. a draft.

When I watch the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan, all I can think of is how every single one of those people were heroes. The once who died so that others could commit heroic acts are no less heroes in my opinion.

We tend not to have the same perception of troops in general in Vietnam, Persian Gulf War, Afghan, Iraq, etc. Maybe it is because of so many stories of terrible atrocities. Maybe it is because of public sentiment about the wars. Maybe it is because those wars did not involve saving democracy. Maybe it is a mix.

I guess my bottom line is that heroes come in many forms and many levels. Certainly certain people are deserving of the highest praise; those we read about daily who save lives or gave their life so others could have theirs are general at the tops of our lists.

But IMO, the word 'hero' is a good descriptor for any person who gave their life in service of their country.

The Military, past, present, and future, are all my hero's
All the haters will be sucking our hero's off to save them if the shit hits the fan. 
The Minister's of death, praying for war.  

They would all be speaking German or Japanese, if we did not shed blood for them in WWII
They can't fight now, they are all broke from socialism, and they don't have the balls to fight.

QUOTE Originally Posted by EddieGor.

You do realize that the vast majority of free industrialized nations.....Germany, Italy, Japan, Denmark, Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, Norway, France, Australia, etc, etc, etc , etc, etc I could go on all day..........they have NO current conflicts that they are involved with...

Meaning these countries DO NOT have unwanted military presences anywhere.

My definition of a hero is rather simple and to the point. And that is anyone who signs over their life to Uncle Sam warrants such praise, esp. all the veterans who's been put in harm's way.

There has been some great discussion here.  Something badly needed in the fourm.

The thread was started to strike an emotional nerve.  For those that know me here for all these years, I am sure they picked up on that. There are way too many 20 some year old threads started about f'ing, drinking and such.  Wanted a little emotion in a thread and what better way than to question someones patriotism. Too bad some have to resort to personal jabs and name calling.

Also since you mentioned EOG.  I was over there some until that Russ Culiver stuff happened.  Not sure if you were over there then.

At the time Russ Culver joined EOG as a handicapper, I and my legendary brother Dr. Brunhuber were on a mission to make the world aware that Calvin Ayre was a fraud and a thief. We had been banned from every forum, except this one and OGD. I don't think we came here.

"we fight them there so we dont have to fight them here" makes me wann puke just typing it.