Clearly the NCAA is making a statement and using Penn State as an example here. In order to show all other schools that covering-up and cheating on such a grand scale is not worth it, the risk of punishment and the punishment itself has to be greater than the incentive for covering-up or cheating in the first place.
The NCAA appears to have directly penalized the areas that served as the incentives for Penn State to continue the cover-up in the first place:
Financially - $60 million fine
Health of the program - Bowl ban and loss of scholarships
Paterno's win total - Vacated wins
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Clearly the NCAA is making a statement and using Penn State as an example here. In order to show all other schools that covering-up and cheating on such a grand scale is not worth it, the risk of punishment and the punishment itself has to be greater than the incentive for covering-up or cheating in the first place.
The NCAA appears to have directly penalized the areas that served as the incentives for Penn State to continue the cover-up in the first place:
Financially - $60 million fine
Health of the program - Bowl ban and loss of scholarships
i dont see how destroying a program for years to come helps anyone ... It does however stop a whole alot of football players from getting a great education at a school with great academics. There had to be a better way of punishing the school but what it is I have no idea
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i dont see how destroying a program for years to come helps anyone ... It does however stop a whole alot of football players from getting a great education at a school with great academics. There had to be a better way of punishing the school but what it is I have no idea
If the NCAA was looking to positively affect the future decisions of school administrators and coaches around the country if they are ever faced with a similar decision to cover-up anything close to as heinous as this, then this punishment likely served that purpose.
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If the NCAA was looking to positively affect the future decisions of school administrators and coaches around the country if they are ever faced with a similar decision to cover-up anything close to as heinous as this, then this punishment likely served that purpose.
Clearly the NCAA is making a statement and using Penn State as an example here. In order to show all other schools that covering-up and cheating on such a grand scale is not worth it, the risk of punishment and the punishment itself has to be greater than the incentive for covering-up or cheating in the first place.
The NCAA appears to have directly penalized the areas that served as the incentives for Penn State to continue the cover-up in the first place:
Financially - $60 million fine
Health of the program - Bowl ban and loss of scholarships
Paterno's win total - Vacated wins
BINGO
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Quote Originally Posted by totalguy:
Clearly the NCAA is making a statement and using Penn State as an example here. In order to show all other schools that covering-up and cheating on such a grand scale is not worth it, the risk of punishment and the punishment itself has to be greater than the incentive for covering-up or cheating in the first place.
The NCAA appears to have directly penalized the areas that served as the incentives for Penn State to continue the cover-up in the first place:
Financially - $60 million fine
Health of the program - Bowl ban and loss of scholarships
If the NCAA was looking to positively affect the future decisions of school administrators and coaches around the country if they are ever faced with a similar decision to cover-up anything close to as heinous as this, then this punishment likely served that purpose.
BINGO AGAIN
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Quote Originally Posted by totalguy:
If the NCAA was looking to positively affect the future decisions of school administrators and coaches around the country if they are ever faced with a similar decision to cover-up anything close to as heinous as this, then this punishment likely served that purpose.
other than stopping child abuse and criminals going to jail, the only thing that matters is what future handicapping angles this produces and there could be some good ones...no one cares about any university, players or that they're be .500 for years..well I guess they do because everyone is talking about it.....hell Indiana has been .500 or worse for years (and many other programs) and you don't hear them complaining, it's a school like any other....who says Penn St has the right to be pretty good most years...every school USC, Bama, ND, MiaFL has bad stretches....USC 37-35 from 96-01, Bama 51-46 from 97-04....PSU will still outrecruit Indiana, Minny, etc...some might under react or more likely overreact to the changes and team outlook resulting in ATS opportunities....of course most will be FADE FADE FADE without even looking at the spread or team...which is where the opportunities come in
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other than stopping child abuse and criminals going to jail, the only thing that matters is what future handicapping angles this produces and there could be some good ones...no one cares about any university, players or that they're be .500 for years..well I guess they do because everyone is talking about it.....hell Indiana has been .500 or worse for years (and many other programs) and you don't hear them complaining, it's a school like any other....who says Penn St has the right to be pretty good most years...every school USC, Bama, ND, MiaFL has bad stretches....USC 37-35 from 96-01, Bama 51-46 from 97-04....PSU will still outrecruit Indiana, Minny, etc...some might under react or more likely overreact to the changes and team outlook resulting in ATS opportunities....of course most will be FADE FADE FADE without even looking at the spread or team...which is where the opportunities come in
nos, indiana is a basketball school, psu a football school sports wise.
my guess is that why indiana fans arent complaining.
and i dont get what penn state fans are so upset about anyway, we have suffered through some horrible years, around the time joe should have stepped down.
alabama had some rough years, michigan, usc, miami the list goes on.
the powerhouses or semi-powerhouses always come back. its because they have tradition of being good (no matter how they became good), play in big conferences, play in a region where there are a ton of athletes, play in front of a rabid fan base, play for 108,000 people, have top notch facilities, etc etc
i could argue that with the current coaching staff and their infusion of new things being taught (like simply using free weights to train!!), they will be better off with lesser talent.
what people dont realize is penn state had some of the worst offensive coaching by far in the big 10. now they may have the best.
things are never that bad and are never that good, usually fall somewhere in between.
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nos, indiana is a basketball school, psu a football school sports wise.
my guess is that why indiana fans arent complaining.
and i dont get what penn state fans are so upset about anyway, we have suffered through some horrible years, around the time joe should have stepped down.
alabama had some rough years, michigan, usc, miami the list goes on.
the powerhouses or semi-powerhouses always come back. its because they have tradition of being good (no matter how they became good), play in big conferences, play in a region where there are a ton of athletes, play in front of a rabid fan base, play for 108,000 people, have top notch facilities, etc etc
i could argue that with the current coaching staff and their infusion of new things being taught (like simply using free weights to train!!), they will be better off with lesser talent.
what people dont realize is penn state had some of the worst offensive coaching by far in the big 10. now they may have the best.
things are never that bad and are never that good, usually fall somewhere in between.
"vacating" the wins for those years is ridiculous. the fact is those teams won the games and paterno was the head coach.
having a child molester, or serial killer, or drug kingpin on the staff doesn't have a damn thing to do with winning--the wins were not earned thru cheating or steroids or anything else that might have gained them an edge.
paterno is still the all-time winningest coach.
essentially agree with the stuff in red!
disagree strongly with the statement in green!
the players won those games, and guys like Evan Royster can still say they won those games, and won those bowl games... for example, you will not see Florida St players throwing a party because they now WON the Outback Bowl a few years ago...
however, Bobby Bowden IS the all-time winningest coach, and in no way, shape or form does that record have an asterisk by it... Paterno violated a moral code, and his punishment is a real one, not just something symbolic...
if you don't understand the difference, i'm sure there is little i can do to illuminate it for you... but that is the reality of the situation...
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Quote Originally Posted by redbook1:
"vacating" the wins for those years is ridiculous. the fact is those teams won the games and paterno was the head coach.
having a child molester, or serial killer, or drug kingpin on the staff doesn't have a damn thing to do with winning--the wins were not earned thru cheating or steroids or anything else that might have gained them an edge.
paterno is still the all-time winningest coach.
essentially agree with the stuff in red!
disagree strongly with the statement in green!
the players won those games, and guys like Evan Royster can still say they won those games, and won those bowl games... for example, you will not see Florida St players throwing a party because they now WON the Outback Bowl a few years ago...
however, Bobby Bowden IS the all-time winningest coach, and in no way, shape or form does that record have an asterisk by it... Paterno violated a moral code, and his punishment is a real one, not just something symbolic...
if you don't understand the difference, i'm sure there is little i can do to illuminate it for you... but that is the reality of the situation...
have to agree with Nostradamus... the only thing that matters in this whole Penn St fiasco is how it affects pointspreads, and ATS wins / losses, going forward...
those are the only discussions we need to be having at this point... i say it frequently... this is not a "fan forum"... it is a "handicappers forum"...
the fans need to pipe down, so that meaningful handicapping discussions can take center stage...
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have to agree with Nostradamus... the only thing that matters in this whole Penn St fiasco is how it affects pointspreads, and ATS wins / losses, going forward...
those are the only discussions we need to be having at this point... i say it frequently... this is not a "fan forum"... it is a "handicappers forum"...
the fans need to pipe down, so that meaningful handicapping discussions can take center stage...
the fans? how about the anti penn state fans, they are the ones all over this board with the same old stuff relentlessly, starting new threads, etc etc etc
i think outside of a couple of guys, myself is the only one really talking about penn state and agreed with most of punishment.
and providing info for current roster which makes it capping relevant.
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the fans? how about the anti penn state fans, they are the ones all over this board with the same old stuff relentlessly, starting new threads, etc etc etc
i think outside of a couple of guys, myself is the only one really talking about penn state and agreed with most of punishment.
and providing info for current roster which makes it capping relevant.
the fans? how about the anti penn state fans, they are the ones all over this board with the same old stuff relentlessly, starting new threads, etc etc etc
all of the fans! Penn St fans, anti-PSU fans... people who are here because they are fans of a team rather than because they are purely football handicappers...
i am not a fan of any team, because it only serves to cloud judgment with respect to capping the games... anybody who is in this for the money, should not be a fan of any team either... you can't be truly objective if you are...
anyway, i never said the "Penn St fans" need to pipe down... just saying all of this chatter is nonsense, unless it applies to capping the games...
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Quote Originally Posted by thisguyiswise:
the fans? how about the anti penn state fans, they are the ones all over this board with the same old stuff relentlessly, starting new threads, etc etc etc
all of the fans! Penn St fans, anti-PSU fans... people who are here because they are fans of a team rather than because they are purely football handicappers...
i am not a fan of any team, because it only serves to cloud judgment with respect to capping the games... anybody who is in this for the money, should not be a fan of any team either... you can't be truly objective if you are...
anyway, i never said the "Penn St fans" need to pipe down... just saying all of this chatter is nonsense, unless it applies to capping the games...
all of the fans! Penn St fans, anti-PSU fans... people who are here because they are fans of a team rather than because they are purely football handicappers...
i am not a fan of any team, because it only serves to cloud judgment with respect to capping the games... anybody who is in this for the money, should not be a fan of any team either... you can't be truly objective if you are...
anyway, i never said the "Penn St fans" need to pipe down... just saying all of this chatter is nonsense, unless it applies to capping the games...
You can definitely be objective, most people just aren't when regarding their own team.
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Quote Originally Posted by ApocalypseLater:
all of the fans! Penn St fans, anti-PSU fans... people who are here because they are fans of a team rather than because they are purely football handicappers...
i am not a fan of any team, because it only serves to cloud judgment with respect to capping the games... anybody who is in this for the money, should not be a fan of any team either... you can't be truly objective if you are...
anyway, i never said the "Penn St fans" need to pipe down... just saying all of this chatter is nonsense, unless it applies to capping the games...
You can definitely be objective, most people just aren't when regarding their own team.
all of the fans! Penn St fans, anti-PSU fans... people who are here because they are fans of a team rather than because they are purely football handicappers...
i am not a fan of any team, because it only serves to cloud judgment with respect to capping the games... anybody who is in this for the money, should not be a fan of any team either... you can't be truly objective if you are...
anyway, i never said the "Penn St fans" need to pipe down... just saying all of this chatter is nonsense, unless it applies to capping the games...
This
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Quote Originally Posted by ApocalypseLater:
all of the fans! Penn St fans, anti-PSU fans... people who are here because they are fans of a team rather than because they are purely football handicappers...
i am not a fan of any team, because it only serves to cloud judgment with respect to capping the games... anybody who is in this for the money, should not be a fan of any team either... you can't be truly objective if you are...
anyway, i never said the "Penn St fans" need to pipe down... just saying all of this chatter is nonsense, unless it applies to capping the games...
if they can retain most of their players PSU and I believe they will (remember everyone was going to leave USC too a couple years ago and most stayed, although yes longer bowl ban) could be tougher than expected this year..if they can keep Bolden off the field, my god that kid is awful...besides poor throwing he stares down WRs...I think Mauti said last night he is staying and expects most of the core players to stay...hell what's another trip to the capital one bowl when you've been there 2-3 times already
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if they can retain most of their players PSU and I believe they will (remember everyone was going to leave USC too a couple years ago and most stayed, although yes longer bowl ban) could be tougher than expected this year..if they can keep Bolden off the field, my god that kid is awful...besides poor throwing he stares down WRs...I think Mauti said last night he is staying and expects most of the core players to stay...hell what's another trip to the capital one bowl when you've been there 2-3 times already
Glad Paterno lost his wins . He did help cover this up , and his name should be no where near the record book
60 Mill. seem about right . Guessing the victims are going to get 300M+ when this goes to a civil trial
4 Years of post season Ban makes perfectly good sense .. and know I don't think this is unfair to the current players .. It's a life lesson and that is what you are in college for /
BEST OF HEALTH, HAPPINESS,WEALTH, BLESSINGS and LUCK TO ALL !!
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Glad Paterno lost his wins . He did help cover this up , and his name should be no where near the record book
60 Mill. seem about right . Guessing the victims are going to get 300M+ when this goes to a civil trial
4 Years of post season Ban makes perfectly good sense .. and know I don't think this is unfair to the current players .. It's a life lesson and that is what you are in college for /
The NCAA made this a football issue with their stupid involvement. It was a crime committed by some on the football coaching staff, and others in the administration. It could have been their law school that was involved and they still would have kept it quiet. The NCAA made it look like it was a football problem.
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The NCAA made this a football issue with their stupid involvement. It was a crime committed by some on the football coaching staff, and others in the administration. It could have been their law school that was involved and they still would have kept it quiet. The NCAA made it look like it was a football problem.
I have been reading the many opinions on this subject in this thread and other places. I have yet to see anyone logically explain how this qualifies as a football matter. Somebody pointed out that 2 wrongs don't make a right. No truer words have ever been spoken. How is punishing innocent people (players;past, present and future, coaches;past,present and future, etc) who had absolutely nothing to do with this 'Criminal' act, in any way fair? Again, in no way, shape or form did this have anything to do with football. I am certainly not any kind of rabid 'Penn Stater', but I am a fan of justice and this isn't anywhere close. Punish the people responsible for this 'Criminal' act. Not those who had nothing to do with it.
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I have been reading the many opinions on this subject in this thread and other places. I have yet to see anyone logically explain how this qualifies as a football matter. Somebody pointed out that 2 wrongs don't make a right. No truer words have ever been spoken. How is punishing innocent people (players;past, present and future, coaches;past,present and future, etc) who had absolutely nothing to do with this 'Criminal' act, in any way fair? Again, in no way, shape or form did this have anything to do with football. I am certainly not any kind of rabid 'Penn Stater', but I am a fan of justice and this isn't anywhere close. Punish the people responsible for this 'Criminal' act. Not those who had nothing to do with it.
I have been reading the many opinions on this subject in this thread and other places. I have yet to see anyone logically explain how this qualifies as a football matter. Somebody pointed out that 2 wrongs don't make a right. No truer words have ever been spoken. How is punishing innocent people (players;past, present and future, coaches;past,present and future, etc) who had absolutely nothing to do with this 'Criminal' act, in any way fair? Again, in no way, shape or form did this have anything to do with football. I am certainly not any kind of rabid 'Penn Stater', but I am a fan of justice and this isn't anywhere close. Punish the people responsible for this 'Criminal' act. Not those who had nothing to do with it.
The university, from the coaching staff all the way to the top, covered this up to save themselves from embarrasment and negative publicity. Now they all had a choice, to do the only right and humane thing, which was report this piece of shit, the very first time they suspected something, They had the opportunity to put and end to this, and help those poor little kids from having their lives ruined, but they did not. So several years later, and no telling how many dozens of victims later, people actually have the gall to bitch and moan about how the NCAA is treating the University unfair? unfucking believable! Poor poor players, just isn't fair.... BS.. it wasn't fair for the university to turn a blind eye away from those kids that that POS was molesting.
Innocent people will always be effected by others mistakes, Thats like people arguing that we should not imprison bankrobbers, murders etc. if they have a wife and kids at home, the wife and kids did nothing wrong, yet they will be saddened and effected by daddy being locked up.
I am a business owner, and I am responsible for every one of my employees actions, so when they screw up, I am the one to blame... the University, which is a much larger scale, of course will effect more people in more ways.. but so be it, The NCAA got it right!
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Quote Originally Posted by djuengoe:
I have been reading the many opinions on this subject in this thread and other places. I have yet to see anyone logically explain how this qualifies as a football matter. Somebody pointed out that 2 wrongs don't make a right. No truer words have ever been spoken. How is punishing innocent people (players;past, present and future, coaches;past,present and future, etc) who had absolutely nothing to do with this 'Criminal' act, in any way fair? Again, in no way, shape or form did this have anything to do with football. I am certainly not any kind of rabid 'Penn Stater', but I am a fan of justice and this isn't anywhere close. Punish the people responsible for this 'Criminal' act. Not those who had nothing to do with it.
The university, from the coaching staff all the way to the top, covered this up to save themselves from embarrasment and negative publicity. Now they all had a choice, to do the only right and humane thing, which was report this piece of shit, the very first time they suspected something, They had the opportunity to put and end to this, and help those poor little kids from having their lives ruined, but they did not. So several years later, and no telling how many dozens of victims later, people actually have the gall to bitch and moan about how the NCAA is treating the University unfair? unfucking believable! Poor poor players, just isn't fair.... BS.. it wasn't fair for the university to turn a blind eye away from those kids that that POS was molesting.
Innocent people will always be effected by others mistakes, Thats like people arguing that we should not imprison bankrobbers, murders etc. if they have a wife and kids at home, the wife and kids did nothing wrong, yet they will be saddened and effected by daddy being locked up.
I am a business owner, and I am responsible for every one of my employees actions, so when they screw up, I am the one to blame... the University, which is a much larger scale, of course will effect more people in more ways.. but so be it, The NCAA got it right!
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