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    All Forums | The Archives

    So, what have we learned - Week 3 (nfl)

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    Joe Public
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    Joe Public
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 10:21 PM ET #26

    In some ways Kordell was better than Byron, but not in one very important way, one that is essential in the NFL, and that is handling critics.  He just couldn't do it.  Like Jake Plummer at times, Kordell just couldn't handle bad games and the shots that came with it.  At least Byron can do that. 

    Byron is tough.  That's really what he is, he's a tough guy, he doesn't quit, and he will make a play.  Not always when you need it, and he's not a great offensive talent, but he's not on a great offensive team either.  His mechanics are bad and they've never been worked on.  He was drafted because he has that something, that thing where people saw him, like Penny, win games at Marshall that they maybe shouldn't have and they thought, 'we want that, that's a leader.' 

    Where is Culpepper on my list, about middle of the pack, mostly because of talent.  He's like a bigger, stronger version of Jake Plummer.  His decisions still suck and sometimes he makes plays just based on talent.  Which is fine, but it's rarely going to get you much more than one playoff win a year if that.
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    In some ways Kordell was better than Byron, but not in one very important way, one that is essential in the NFL, and that is handling critics.  He just couldn't do it.  Like Jake Plummer at times, Kordell just couldn't handle bad games and the shots that came with it.  At least Byron can do that. 

    Byron is tough.  That's really what he is, he's a tough guy, he doesn't quit, and he will make a play.  Not always when you need it, and he's not a great offensive talent, but he's not on a great offensive team either.  His mechanics are bad and they've never been worked on.  He was drafted because he has that something, that thing where people saw him, like Penny, win games at Marshall that they maybe shouldn't have and they thought, 'we want that, that's a leader.' 

    Where is Culpepper on my list, about middle of the pack, mostly because of talent.  He's like a bigger, stronger version of Jake Plummer.  His decisions still suck and sometimes he makes plays just based on talent.  Which is fine, but it's rarely going to get you much more than one playoff win a year if that.
     
    doc32
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 10:34 PM ET #27

    Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:



    doc, if philly doesnt return that fumble its 24-17 and not 31-10. that changed everything
     
    1) If SF doesn't fumble, then Philly would not have been so laid back on defense
     
    2) 24-17 is still a cover at -6 and Philly went on to score 38 total points. I will accept the small portion of your argument and if you give SF 7 more points, it would have been 1 pt away from the cover.
     
    Even though getting only 6 pts, I still never heard 1 argument as to why SF was the play other than some public fade mumbo jumbo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:



    doc, if philly doesnt return that fumble its 24-17 and not 31-10. that changed everything
     
    1) If SF doesn't fumble, then Philly would not have been so laid back on defense
     
    2) 24-17 is still a cover at -6 and Philly went on to score 38 total points. I will accept the small portion of your argument and if you give SF 7 more points, it would have been 1 pt away from the cover.
     
    Even though getting only 6 pts, I still never heard 1 argument as to why SF was the play other than some public fade mumbo jumbo.
     
    C-Gold
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 10:45 PM ET #28

    If Byron won't ever win a superbowl, then why let him play quarterback for your team
     
    Kordell went to WR, but still had better mechanics and even decison making MOST of the time than Byron. 
     
    Jack del rio treated him like a baby this game, and didn't even really let Byron play QB, he was throwing these 3 yard passes all game, and still almost throwing picks
     
    106 yards and 2 INTS against the colts defense is pittiful
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    If Byron won't ever win a superbowl, then why let him play quarterback for your team
     
    Kordell went to WR, but still had better mechanics and even decison making MOST of the time than Byron. 
     
    Jack del rio treated him like a baby this game, and didn't even really let Byron play QB, he was throwing these 3 yard passes all game, and still almost throwing picks
     
    106 yards and 2 INTS against the colts defense is pittiful
     
    dcarpe02
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 10:58 PM ET #29

    OK, I'm going to sound like a Byron apologist here, but...
     
    He played a hell of a game against Dallas in week one, IMO.  He was decent last week against a tough Steeler D, and he struggled today - albeit against a decent Indy defense, not a top 10 D, but respectable. 
     
    Byron has some plusses.  He's got a gun and he is one tough S.O.B. He is fairly accurate.  He is a sitting duck in the pocket, however, and has a tough time dealing with constant pressure (as most QB's do). 
     
    Kordell was a WR playing QB.  He had NO arm strength, NO accuracy, and poor decision making skills.  He was repeatedly a baby in his career as a Steeler, even going so far as to cry on the sideline.  That is no leader.  Comparing Byron to Kordell is being awfully tough on him... 
     
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    OK, I'm going to sound like a Byron apologist here, but...
     
    He played a hell of a game against Dallas in week one, IMO.  He was decent last week against a tough Steeler D, and he struggled today - albeit against a decent Indy defense, not a top 10 D, but respectable. 
     
    Byron has some plusses.  He's got a gun and he is one tough S.O.B. He is fairly accurate.  He is a sitting duck in the pocket, however, and has a tough time dealing with constant pressure (as most QB's do). 
     
    Kordell was a WR playing QB.  He had NO arm strength, NO accuracy, and poor decision making skills.  He was repeatedly a baby in his career as a Steeler, even going so far as to cry on the sideline.  That is no leader.  Comparing Byron to Kordell is being awfully tough on him... 
     
     
    C-Gold
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:07 PM ET #30

    Hell of a game against dallas???
    He was throwing jump balls to his receivers
     
    Hell of a game against the steelers?
    Did his team even score a touchdown?
     
    Look at todays game against the colts... the colts pass defense
    106 yards and 2 INT
     
    How did kordell have no arm strength, the guy threw the most famous 75 yard hail mary in college football history. 
     
    Kordell didn't have good decision making in the big playoff games ( like Byron last year), but he was managing games in the regular season. 
     
    Kordell also didn't have dogshit mechanics, wind up, slow release, and bad footwork like Byron.
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    Hell of a game against dallas???
    He was throwing jump balls to his receivers
     
    Hell of a game against the steelers?
    Did his team even score a touchdown?
     
    Look at todays game against the colts... the colts pass defense
    106 yards and 2 INT
     
    How did kordell have no arm strength, the guy threw the most famous 75 yard hail mary in college football history. 
     
    Kordell didn't have good decision making in the big playoff games ( like Byron last year), but he was managing games in the regular season. 
     
    Kordell also didn't have dogshit mechanics, wind up, slow release, and bad footwork like Byron.
     
    NJDevils
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:15 PM ET #31

    giants on D are awful. they go get arrington and then they have him sit in the middle of the field in pass coverage while they get no pressure on the QB and guys run through their shit secondary all goddamn day
     
    the patriots organization may have gotten too smug for their own good, you cant just dump players and think that because your coach is good that you will keep winning
     
    maybe mike martz wasnt the reason the rams red zone offense sucked. they still suck
     
    i learned that i am aggravated that i have not bet against culpepper any of these 3 weeks because he has faced shitty QBs that i am scared to back (batch,losman,collins) i know he sucks and havent made a dime off it
     
    i learned that i got lucky to win that bengals bet, they were dead until that muffed punt
     
    if i was a Texans fan i would disown the team,how do you not draft reggie bush ,those fans must wanna kill themselves watching Gado and Dayne back there . but hey that Mario Williams has solidified that D
     
     
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    giants on D are awful. they go get arrington and then they have him sit in the middle of the field in pass coverage while they get no pressure on the QB and guys run through their shit secondary all goddamn day
     
    the patriots organization may have gotten too smug for their own good, you cant just dump players and think that because your coach is good that you will keep winning
     
    maybe mike martz wasnt the reason the rams red zone offense sucked. they still suck
     
    i learned that i am aggravated that i have not bet against culpepper any of these 3 weeks because he has faced shitty QBs that i am scared to back (batch,losman,collins) i know he sucks and havent made a dime off it
     
    i learned that i got lucky to win that bengals bet, they were dead until that muffed punt
     
    if i was a Texans fan i would disown the team,how do you not draft reggie bush ,those fans must wanna kill themselves watching Gado and Dayne back there . but hey that Mario Williams has solidified that D
     
     
     
    NJDevils
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:17 PM ET #32

    Don't look now, and it may mean nothing, but Washington showed up for the first time this season today.  Just hear it in the background.  When they're 100% and once they get on the same page, they do have talent.  No reason to lump them in with the bottom of the barrel.

     

    they played the Texans

    the Jaguars D will kill them next week
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    Don't look now, and it may mean nothing, but Washington showed up for the first time this season today.  Just hear it in the background.  When they're 100% and once they get on the same page, they do have talent.  No reason to lump them in with the bottom of the barrel.

     

    they played the Texans

    the Jaguars D will kill them next week
     
    boogreenz
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:20 PM ET #33

    I've learned pats are a shadow of what they used to be.  or was that last year...
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    I've learned pats are a shadow of what they used to be.  or was that last year...
     
    smalltimer
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:21 PM ET #34

    Joe awesome info as usual....
     
    good read thanks
     
    smalltimer
     
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    Joe awesome info as usual....
     
    good read thanks
     
    smalltimer
     
     
    mokiban21
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:23 PM ET #35

    i learn that the NY FOOTBALL GIANTS MIGHT BE THE BEST 4 QUARTER TEAM IN HISTORY
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    i learn that the NY FOOTBALL GIANTS MIGHT BE THE BEST 4 QUARTER TEAM IN HISTORY
     
    Joe Public
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:26 PM ET #36

    This game is over.

    I want to believe it's not, but it is.
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    This game is over.

    I want to believe it's not, but it is.
     
    dcarpe02
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:28 PM ET #37

    Leftwich vs. Dallas 23-34, 237 yards, 1 TD.  Yeah, that is a pretty damn good game IMO. 
     
    Vs. Pittsburgh 26-39, 260 yards.  Yes that's a pretty good game, too.  I didn't say that one was a "hell of a game."  Not great, but good.  He came out with a win on national TV against the Super Bowl champs.
     
    Clearly today, he played a poor game.
     
    His career QB rating is 80.7 - very respectable.  Much better than Kordell's 70.7 - a pretty poor rating.
     
    Yes, I shouldn't have said KS has NO arm strength.  He did throw that one 73 yards in the fly and clearly that is fantastic...   But we really didn't see that too much in Pittsburgh.  Maybe I am being too hard on Kordell. LOL
     
    Good points about Byron's windup and slow release - I agree with you there...  He would crumble under a bad o-line.   
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    Leftwich vs. Dallas 23-34, 237 yards, 1 TD.  Yeah, that is a pretty damn good game IMO. 
     
    Vs. Pittsburgh 26-39, 260 yards.  Yes that's a pretty good game, too.  I didn't say that one was a "hell of a game."  Not great, but good.  He came out with a win on national TV against the Super Bowl champs.
     
    Clearly today, he played a poor game.
     
    His career QB rating is 80.7 - very respectable.  Much better than Kordell's 70.7 - a pretty poor rating.
     
    Yes, I shouldn't have said KS has NO arm strength.  He did throw that one 73 yards in the fly and clearly that is fantastic...   But we really didn't see that too much in Pittsburgh.  Maybe I am being too hard on Kordell. LOL
     
    Good points about Byron's windup and slow release - I agree with you there...  He would crumble under a bad o-line.   
     
    Joe Public
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:30 PM ET #38

    Whoops, wrong thread.  But I can make a point here.

    Tom Brady hasn't looked very good to me at all this year.  They looked lost in week one until they came back against what I consider not a very good team, and they did it at home.

    Then they let the Jets come back on them and after the game Brady sounded like they'd lost the game.  He was flustered by the loss of Branch.   And tonight he's had his head down all night save for their one TD. 

    I don't know what's going on with the Pats, but it's not pretty.

    Oh, and I don't really know what this Denver defense is doing, but they appear--appear to be--pretty good.
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    Whoops, wrong thread.  But I can make a point here.

    Tom Brady hasn't looked very good to me at all this year.  They looked lost in week one until they came back against what I consider not a very good team, and they did it at home.

    Then they let the Jets come back on them and after the game Brady sounded like they'd lost the game.  He was flustered by the loss of Branch.   And tonight he's had his head down all night save for their one TD. 

    I don't know what's going on with the Pats, but it's not pretty.

    Oh, and I don't really know what this Denver defense is doing, but they appear--appear to be--pretty good.
     
    kerryb
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:31 PM ET #39

    holmgren's quote right there about being 'too conservative' is all you need to know about seattle 2nd half plays.
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    holmgren's quote right there about being 'too conservative' is all you need to know about seattle 2nd half plays.
     
    mokiban21
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:33 PM ET #40

    joe they only didnt allow NO TD FOR 2 GAMES bro....... 11 quarters..... untill the 4th, very good defense
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    joe they only didnt allow NO TD FOR 2 GAMES bro....... 11 quarters..... untill the 4th, very good defense
     
    HockeyGuy
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:34 PM ET #41

    Packer OVERs should be on your list as well Joe
     
    -Steelers have the best O-Line in football.Berger had 10 seconds on every snap
     
    -Houston is still an expansion team
     
    -Don't ever bet against Seattle at home
     
    -Zona is still Zona
     
    -Pats need some receivers (Maroney looks like a player)
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    Packer OVERs should be on your list as well Joe
     
    -Steelers have the best O-Line in football.Berger had 10 seconds on every snap
     
    -Houston is still an expansion team
     
    -Don't ever bet against Seattle at home
     
    -Zona is still Zona
     
    -Pats need some receivers (Maroney looks like a player)
     
    mokiban21
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:34 PM ET #42

    Leftwich is a horrible QB on a good defensive team that carrys him most of the time IMO
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    Leftwich is a horrible QB on a good defensive team that carrys him most of the time IMO
     
    mokiban21
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:35 PM ET #43

    HOCKEY STEELERS O-LINE SURE SHOW ON MONDAY NIGHT VS THE JAGZ
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    HOCKEY STEELERS O-LINE SURE SHOW ON MONDAY NIGHT VS THE JAGZ
     
    NJDevils
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:36 PM ET #44

    Leftwich didnt play a great game but that asshole kicker turned that game by missing a 20yd Fg in a f'n dome when the game was 7-7
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    Leftwich didnt play a great game but that asshole kicker turned that game by missing a 20yd Fg in a f'n dome when the game was 7-7
     
    mokiban21
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:37 PM ET #45

     RRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUF RRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUF RRRRRRRUFFFFFFFFFFF THATS THE SOUNDS OF DAWGZ BARKING IN WEEK 3 FELLAS
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     RRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUF RRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUF RRRRRRRUFFFFFFFFFFF THATS THE SOUNDS OF DAWGZ BARKING IN WEEK 3 FELLAS
     
    kaseys$picks
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:37 PM ET #46

    Ive learned that the patriots are not the team of the past....not even close...this may be a team to bet against with linesmakers giving them lines and the stupid public jumping all over it thinking they can cover.  N.E. is just an average team IMO..middle of the pack
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    Ive learned that the patriots are not the team of the past....not even close...this may be a team to bet against with linesmakers giving them lines and the stupid public jumping all over it thinking they can cover.  N.E. is just an average team IMO..middle of the pack
     
    Joe Public
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:39 PM ET #47

    I want to believe that Mok, but I watched them last week and though they never allowed the TD, they let KC run all over the field for a while with a backup QB. 

    We know now that St. Louis is a mess in the redzone, so even though the Broncos held tight, now that comes into question a bit as well. 

    I do want to believe this defense is good, and maybe they are, but I'd really like to see them go up against Cincy or Indy to prove it.

    However, Denver sets up well for the next few weeks.  Look at this:

    Week 4 - bye
    Week 5 - Baltimore
    Week 6 - Oakland
    Week 7 - @ Cleveland

    Only in Week 8 do they really get a test and that's from Indy, and they play that game in Denver.  Of course, immediately after that they go to Pittsburgh, but by then they should be 5-2 at worst.
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    I want to believe that Mok, but I watched them last week and though they never allowed the TD, they let KC run all over the field for a while with a backup QB. 

    We know now that St. Louis is a mess in the redzone, so even though the Broncos held tight, now that comes into question a bit as well. 

    I do want to believe this defense is good, and maybe they are, but I'd really like to see them go up against Cincy or Indy to prove it.

    However, Denver sets up well for the next few weeks.  Look at this:

    Week 4 - bye
    Week 5 - Baltimore
    Week 6 - Oakland
    Week 7 - @ Cleveland

    Only in Week 8 do they really get a test and that's from Indy, and they play that game in Denver.  Of course, immediately after that they go to Pittsburgh, but by then they should be 5-2 at worst.
     
    dcarpe02
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:41 PM ET #48

    Come on Mokiban, Leftwich had the 9th highest QB rating in the entire NFL last year.  He threw 10 more TD's than he did INT's.  How in the hell can you say he is HORRIBLE?  Byron is clearly not an elite QB, but he is NOT horrible.
     
     
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    Come on Mokiban, Leftwich had the 9th highest QB rating in the entire NFL last year.  He threw 10 more TD's than he did INT's.  How in the hell can you say he is HORRIBLE?  Byron is clearly not an elite QB, but he is NOT horrible.
     
     
     
    mokiban21
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:42 PM ET #49

    Joe im seeing money SIGN............ POUND ON THE UNDER?
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    Joe im seeing money SIGN............ POUND ON THE UNDER?
     
     
    mokiban21
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    Posted: Sep. 24, 2006 - 11:44 PM ET #50

    BALT/OAK/BROWNS/ VS DENVER? I BET vegas odds maker  wont  dare TOP the total out over 33 for any of those matchup
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    BALT/OAK/BROWNS/ VS DENVER? I BET vegas odds maker  wont  dare TOP the total out over 33 for any of those matchup
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