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    All Forums | Systems & Strategies

    Sharky's System (Revised)

    kck05a
    STEVEPERRY
    Sharkysden
    jarhead60
    ChuckWoolery
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    kck05a
    kck05a
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2008 - 4:24 PM ET #1

    I had a comment or two on Sharky's system which many of you seem to be interested in if not follow on here. I know I don't have much validity to anything I say here but I had a comment or two to make.
     
    A Quote from SharkysDen.com:
     
    "The passing game is football, I don't care what anyone say's, the running game for an NFL team means squadoosh.  It's all about passing, think of it this way, Team A only passes the ball and the average pass is 7 yeards.  Team B only runs the ball and the average run is 4 yards.  Who will get to the end zone more?  If you said Team B then you need to take 1st grade over, because the law of physics is clearly on the passing teams side.   Teams that pass gain 2 more yards per play than teams that run, so my money is on the passing game. 
     
    So for your next step you want to look at the pass per play stat, sometimes listed as YPP (yards per pass).  Take the yards per pass offense and subtract it from the yards per pass defense to get your number.
     for example:  Team A's YPP offense is 7.2 and defense is 4.8 you want to subtract 7.2-4.8= 2.4.  Do this for both teams and the bigger margin will be the winner.    If the bigger margin is the team that your ratings favor against the spread then you have a pick."
     
    I had a variation or two to make to this theory. First off, the passing game is what football is all about, however, not the only thing it is about. The formula sharky is proposing here looks like..
     
    (Team A YPP Offense - Team A YPP Defense) vs. (Team B YPP Offense - Team B YPP Defense)
     
    In which the higher number should be the winner. However, a running game does exist in the game of football, which no matter what anybody says plays a role in games, every factor does.
     
    Improving on sharky's system i have come up with this formula:
     
    (Team A YPP Offense- Team A YPP Defense)*.75+(Team A YPR Offense-Team A YPR Defense)*.25 vs. (Team B  YPP Offense- Team B YPP Defense)*.75+(Team B YPR Offense-Team B YPR Defense) *.25
     
    In this equation you see I have weighted the Yards per play stat to compensate for the impact of passing and rushing in a football game. I chose .75 and .25 as my magnitudes, however feel free to manipulate your number accordingly, depending on how you see fit. Please give me your feedback on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    I had a comment or two on Sharky's system which many of you seem to be interested in if not follow on here. I know I don't have much validity to anything I say here but I had a comment or two to make.
     
    A Quote from SharkysDen.com:
     
    "The passing game is football, I don't care what anyone say's, the running game for an NFL team means squadoosh.  It's all about passing, think of it this way, Team A only passes the ball and the average pass is 7 yeards.  Team B only runs the ball and the average run is 4 yards.  Who will get to the end zone more?  If you said Team B then you need to take 1st grade over, because the law of physics is clearly on the passing teams side.   Teams that pass gain 2 more yards per play than teams that run, so my money is on the passing game. 
     
    So for your next step you want to look at the pass per play stat, sometimes listed as YPP (yards per pass).  Take the yards per pass offense and subtract it from the yards per pass defense to get your number.
     for example:  Team A's YPP offense is 7.2 and defense is 4.8 you want to subtract 7.2-4.8= 2.4.  Do this for both teams and the bigger margin will be the winner.    If the bigger margin is the team that your ratings favor against the spread then you have a pick."
     
    I had a variation or two to make to this theory. First off, the passing game is what football is all about, however, not the only thing it is about. The formula sharky is proposing here looks like..
     
    (Team A YPP Offense - Team A YPP Defense) vs. (Team B YPP Offense - Team B YPP Defense)
     
    In which the higher number should be the winner. However, a running game does exist in the game of football, which no matter what anybody says plays a role in games, every factor does.
     
    Improving on sharky's system i have come up with this formula:
     
    (Team A YPP Offense- Team A YPP Defense)*.75+(Team A YPR Offense-Team A YPR Defense)*.25 vs. (Team B  YPP Offense- Team B YPP Defense)*.75+(Team B YPR Offense-Team B YPR Defense) *.25
     
    In this equation you see I have weighted the Yards per play stat to compensate for the impact of passing and rushing in a football game. I chose .75 and .25 as my magnitudes, however feel free to manipulate your number accordingly, depending on how you see fit. Please give me your feedback on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
     
    STEVEPERRY
    STEVEPERRY
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2008 - 5:11 PM ET #2

    Shouldn't you take Team A's offence and then subtract Team B's defence?  Then take Team B's offence and subtract Team A's defence.  Makes more sense to me...
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    Shouldn't you take Team A's offence and then subtract Team B's defence?  Then take Team B's offence and subtract Team A's defence.  Makes more sense to me...
     
    Sharkysden
    Sharkysden
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2008 - 6:20 PM ET #3

    I'm honored to have a thread in here.  To further my strategy I do look at the running game briefly when I think it may be an important factor.  but I'm a passing handicapper so I put more faith in the passing game. 

    A good example of this strategy is Oakland on Monday night, they're running game was almost perfect in the beginning.  Not being able to move the ball with their passing game killed them.

    anyway you don't have to do the work, it's done for you in my matchups section.   All the way to the bottom of the page of each matchup  there is a section called "power stats"
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    I'm honored to have a thread in here.  To further my strategy I do look at the running game briefly when I think it may be an important factor.  but I'm a passing handicapper so I put more faith in the passing game. 

    A good example of this strategy is Oakland on Monday night, they're running game was almost perfect in the beginning.  Not being able to move the ball with their passing game killed them.

    anyway you don't have to do the work, it's done for you in my matchups section.   All the way to the bottom of the page of each matchup  there is a section called "power stats"
     
    kck05a
    kck05a
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2008 - 6:54 PM ET #4

    I understand putting more faith in the running game, and I'm not sure whether or not your theory applies to strictly NFL, but I also handicap NCAA and I have to take into account teams such as Navy, where passing would not make a difference...
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    I understand putting more faith in the running game, and I'm not sure whether or not your theory applies to strictly NFL, but I also handicap NCAA and I have to take into account teams such as Navy, where passing would not make a difference...
     
    kck05a
    kck05a
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2008 - 6:57 PM ET #5

    Also, steveperry, I am not comparing Team A's offense to Team B's defense. I am comparing Team A on a passing and rushing unit as a whole, based on past opponents. If you crunch the numbers, your final value will represent a weight that should give you an idea about how the matchup to be will match up.
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    Also, steveperry, I am not comparing Team A's offense to Team B's defense. I am comparing Team A on a passing and rushing unit as a whole, based on past opponents. If you crunch the numbers, your final value will represent a weight that should give you an idea about how the matchup to be will match up.
     
    Sharkysden
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    Posted: Sep. 11, 2008 - 9:09 AM ET #6

    My method does mostly apply NFL but it does also work with college.  I agree that some college teams need to be looked at differently, there are more factors involved in each game with college and that's why I don't normally cap those games. 

    I thinks it's great that you revised my method, that's why I have it on my website, to add a little extra to everyones handicapping.  There is no right or wrong way to cap a game as long as you have a winning percentage and use proper bankroll management.  

    When you read my strategies you'll notice I like to keep it simple.  That's because I'd rather use a few important stats to see who has a better chance of winning and spend the rest of my time finding value.

    I do have a question though, how did you come up with *.75 and *.25?
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    My method does mostly apply NFL but it does also work with college.  I agree that some college teams need to be looked at differently, there are more factors involved in each game with college and that's why I don't normally cap those games. 

    I thinks it's great that you revised my method, that's why I have it on my website, to add a little extra to everyones handicapping.  There is no right or wrong way to cap a game as long as you have a winning percentage and use proper bankroll management.  

    When you read my strategies you'll notice I like to keep it simple.  That's because I'd rather use a few important stats to see who has a better chance of winning and spend the rest of my time finding value.

    I do have a question though, how did you come up with *.75 and *.25?
     
    STEVEPERRY
    STEVEPERRY
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    Posted: Sep. 11, 2008 - 3:57 PM ET #7

    Very interesting kck05a.  So by looking at the obvious then, New Orleans +1 should be the play for the weekend.  You have the ultimate passing game, against a non-existent passing game...
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    Very interesting kck05a.  So by looking at the obvious then, New Orleans +1 should be the play for the weekend.  You have the ultimate passing game, against a non-existent passing game...
     
    jarhead60
    jarhead60
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    Posted: Sep. 12, 2008 - 12:34 AM ET #8

    Let’s look at an example to see if this is what you mean:

    Week 7, year 2000 Tampa Bay vs: Buffalo

    TB   OY/P 5.16
    TB   DY/P 4.53
    Net     0.63

    Buff   OY/P 5.39
    Buff   DY/P  5.00
    Net  +0.39

    TB has a net advantage of  0.24  

    Another way is TB expected value (5.16+5.00)/2 = 5.08
                       Buff expected value (5.39+4.53)/2 = 4.96
    Advantage TB of   5.08- 4.96 = 0.12

    The second method will always be half of the first method.

    In this game, TB won by 14 points

    I have looked at 3 years (NFL) so far and there appears to a low correlation to actual  MOV. And it appears to be useless in picking winners against the spread.

    Years 2000,2001 and 2002, weeks 5 thur 17, the team with the better net yards/pass won (ATS) 260 anfd lost 298, for a win rate of  47%.

    I think it doesn’t work.

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    Let’s look at an example to see if this is what you mean:

    Week 7, year 2000 Tampa Bay vs: Buffalo

    TB   OY/P 5.16
    TB   DY/P 4.53
    Net     0.63

    Buff   OY/P 5.39
    Buff   DY/P  5.00
    Net  +0.39

    TB has a net advantage of  0.24  

    Another way is TB expected value (5.16+5.00)/2 = 5.08
                       Buff expected value (5.39+4.53)/2 = 4.96
    Advantage TB of   5.08- 4.96 = 0.12

    The second method will always be half of the first method.

    In this game, TB won by 14 points

    I have looked at 3 years (NFL) so far and there appears to a low correlation to actual  MOV. And it appears to be useless in picking winners against the spread.

    Years 2000,2001 and 2002, weeks 5 thur 17, the team with the better net yards/pass won (ATS) 260 anfd lost 298, for a win rate of  47%.

    I think it doesn’t work.

     
    ChuckWoolery
    ChuckWoolery
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    Posts: 150
    Posted: Oct. 21, 2008 - 4:37 PM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by kck05a:

    I had a comment or two on Sharky's system which many of you seem to be interested in if not follow on here. I know I don't have much validity to anything I say here but I had a comment or two to make.
     
    A Quote from SharkysDen.com:
     
    "The passing game is football, I don't care what anyone say's, the running game for an NFL team means squadoosh.  It's all about passing, think of it this way, Team A only passes the ball and the average pass is 7 yeards.  Team B only runs the ball and the average run is 4 yards.  Who will get to the end zone more?  If you said Team B then you need to take 1st grade over, because the law of physics is clearly on the passing teams side.   Teams that pass gain 2 more yards per play than teams that run, so my money is on the passing game. 
     
    So for your next step you want to look at the pass per play stat, sometimes listed as YPP (yards per pass).  Take the yards per pass offense and subtract it from the yards per pass defense to get your number.
     for example:  Team A's YPP offense is 7.2 and defense is 4.8 you want to subtract 7.2-4.8= 2.4.  Do this for both teams and the bigger margin will be the winner.    If the bigger margin is the team that your ratings favor against the spread then you have a pick."
     
    I had a variation or two to make to this theory. First off, the passing game is what football is all about, however, not the only thing it is about. The formula sharky is proposing here looks like..
     
    (Team A YPP Offense - Team A YPP Defense) vs. (Team B YPP Offense - Team B YPP Defense)
     
    In which the higher number should be the winner. However, a running game does exist in the game of football, which no matter what anybody says plays a role in games, every factor does.
     
    Improving on sharky's system i have come up with this formula:
     
    (Team A YPP Offense- Team A YPP Defense)*.75+(Team A YPR Offense-Team A YPR Defense)*.25 vs. (Team B  YPP Offense- Team B YPP Defense)*.75+(Team B YPR Offense-Team B YPR Defense) *.25
     
    In this equation you see I have weighted the Yards per play stat to compensate for the impact of passing and rushing in a football game. I chose .75 and .25 as my magnitudes, however feel free to manipulate your number accordingly, depending on how you see fit. Please give me your feedback on this, it would be greatly appreciated.


    BUMP.  A good example of where the .75 and .25 comes from may be this: Say Team A scores an average total of 400 yards per game, where it averages 100 yards RUSHING and 300 yards PASSING. The .25 from rushing would result from rushing yards/total yards i.e. 100/400 = 2.5.  Similarily, the passing would result from 300/400.  Just an idea.  Teams that score more total yards overall still tend to score more through passing so the passing is still emphasized. You'd have to find 4 decimal points for this though, taking up a lot of time. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kck05a:

    I had a comment or two on Sharky's system which many of you seem to be interested in if not follow on here. I know I don't have much validity to anything I say here but I had a comment or two to make.
     
    A Quote from SharkysDen.com:
     
    "The passing game is football, I don't care what anyone say's, the running game for an NFL team means squadoosh.  It's all about passing, think of it this way, Team A only passes the ball and the average pass is 7 yeards.  Team B only runs the ball and the average run is 4 yards.  Who will get to the end zone more?  If you said Team B then you need to take 1st grade over, because the law of physics is clearly on the passing teams side.   Teams that pass gain 2 more yards per play than teams that run, so my money is on the passing game. 
     
    So for your next step you want to look at the pass per play stat, sometimes listed as YPP (yards per pass).  Take the yards per pass offense and subtract it from the yards per pass defense to get your number.
     for example:  Team A's YPP offense is 7.2 and defense is 4.8 you want to subtract 7.2-4.8= 2.4.  Do this for both teams and the bigger margin will be the winner.    If the bigger margin is the team that your ratings favor against the spread then you have a pick."
     
    I had a variation or two to make to this theory. First off, the passing game is what football is all about, however, not the only thing it is about. The formula sharky is proposing here looks like..
     
    (Team A YPP Offense - Team A YPP Defense) vs. (Team B YPP Offense - Team B YPP Defense)
     
    In which the higher number should be the winner. However, a running game does exist in the game of football, which no matter what anybody says plays a role in games, every factor does.
     
    Improving on sharky's system i have come up with this formula:
     
    (Team A YPP Offense- Team A YPP Defense)*.75+(Team A YPR Offense-Team A YPR Defense)*.25 vs. (Team B  YPP Offense- Team B YPP Defense)*.75+(Team B YPR Offense-Team B YPR Defense) *.25
     
    In this equation you see I have weighted the Yards per play stat to compensate for the impact of passing and rushing in a football game. I chose .75 and .25 as my magnitudes, however feel free to manipulate your number accordingly, depending on how you see fit. Please give me your feedback on this, it would be greatly appreciated.


    BUMP.  A good example of where the .75 and .25 comes from may be this: Say Team A scores an average total of 400 yards per game, where it averages 100 yards RUSHING and 300 yards PASSING. The .25 from rushing would result from rushing yards/total yards i.e. 100/400 = 2.5.  Similarily, the passing would result from 300/400.  Just an idea.  Teams that score more total yards overall still tend to score more through passing so the passing is still emphasized. You'd have to find 4 decimal points for this though, taking up a lot of time. 
     
     
    STEVEPERRY
    STEVEPERRY
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    Posted: Oct. 21, 2008 - 11:20 PM ET #10

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