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    All Forums | Rugby

    Vegas books: $300M+ changed hands with NFL call

    norseman67
    blackcrow
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    rod_steel
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    norseman67
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    Posted: Sep. 25, 2012 - 5:27 PM ET #1

    After my Sunday shellacking, good thing I managed to avoid this fiasco.



    LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Las Vegas oddsmakers say $300 million or more changed hands worldwide on a controversial referee call that decided the Monday Night Football game between the Green Bay Packers and the Seattle Seahawks.

    Sports book chief Jay Kornegay said Tuesday that bettors at The LVH casino registered shock, some celebration, then anger when the outcome swung the game in favor of Seahawks bettors.

    ''We've seen regular refs blow calls. That's always been part of the sport,'' Kornegay said. ''But this one was just a blatant bad call at the end of the game that decided the outcome of the game.''

    The Seahawks won 14-12 after referees ruled that Seattle receiver Golden Tate came down with the ball in a pile of bodies in the end zone after a Hail Mary pass on the play's last game.

    The Glantz-Culver line for the game opened favoring the Packers by 4 1/2. Had the final play been ruled an interception - as many players, analysts and fans believed was the right call - Green Bay would have won by 5 points.

    The officials ruled on the field that Tate had simultaneous possession with Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings, which counts as a reception. The NFL upheld the call on Tuesday.

    ''I'm not complaining, but it did feel a little dirty,'' said Wesley Wong, 25, of Toronto, who said he had a combined $1,000 on the game on wagers on Seattle and a low scoring total.

    Gambling expert RJ Bell of Las Vegas-based Pregame.com said an estimated two-thirds of bets worldwide were on the Packers, with about $150 million more bet on Green Bay than Seattle.

    ''Due to one call by the replacement refs, the bettors lost $150 million, and the bookie won $150 million for a total swing of $300 million on one debatably bad call,'' Bell said.

    Mike Colbert, head oddsmaker for Cantor Gaming, which runs seven sports books in Las Vegas and provides betting lines to 90 percent of Nevada's casinos, said Cantor's books took in about 20 percent more money in bets than usual for a Monday night game after a wild weekend.

    Wong said he made a last-minute parlay bet on Seattle and the under to try to make up for losses on Sunday.

    Colbert said that as an NFL fan, he felt for bettors who lost because of the play even though his sports books won money.

    ''When everything went down, I gotta tell you, I was absolutely sick to my stomach,'' Colbert said.

    Casinos had already begun to react to replacement officials before Week 3 began, predicting the most scoring ever across the league.

    Now, adjustments for replacement referees that were only talked about previously are being factored into betting lines, Colbert said.

    ''We've seen it now,'' Colbert said. ''If we do see trends and we see bets, we'll move more aggressively than we did in the past.''

    Teams normally get a 3-point edge factored into the line when they play at home. That home edge could be worth a half-point more with games refereed by replacement officials, depending on the game, Colbert said. Colbert said he believed the Monday night referees got caught up in the excitement of Seattle's home crowd.

    ''I'd be willing to make a big bet that if that game is in Green Bay, that play is overturned and they win it,'' he said.

    Bettors are also reacting. Wong said he's wagering 20 percent less on NFL games than usual because of the unpredictability of the referees and other factors. He said his friends are cutting their bets in half or talking about avoiding NFL wagers for a few weeks if the replacement officials stay in.

    ''I'm willing to put less at risk at this point,'' Wong said. ''I'm not motivated to put that much on the table.''

    Johnny Avello, race and sports director at the Wynn Las Vegas hotel-casino, said plays - and mistakes - happen each week throughout the year that decide the outcomes of bets. But this moment was magnified, he said, because it happened at the end of the game and the call single-handedly decided the outcome.

    ''If you're a bettor, it's going to be hard to get over,'' he said. ''Some may back off, and that's yet to be seen.''


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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    After my Sunday shellacking, good thing I managed to avoid this fiasco.



    LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Las Vegas oddsmakers say $300 million or more changed hands worldwide on a controversial referee call that decided the Monday Night Football game between the Green Bay Packers and the Seattle Seahawks.

    Sports book chief Jay Kornegay said Tuesday that bettors at The LVH casino registered shock, some celebration, then anger when the outcome swung the game in favor of Seahawks bettors.

    ''We've seen regular refs blow calls. That's always been part of the sport,'' Kornegay said. ''But this one was just a blatant bad call at the end of the game that decided the outcome of the game.''

    The Seahawks won 14-12 after referees ruled that Seattle receiver Golden Tate came down with the ball in a pile of bodies in the end zone after a Hail Mary pass on the play's last game.

    The Glantz-Culver line for the game opened favoring the Packers by 4 1/2. Had the final play been ruled an interception - as many players, analysts and fans believed was the right call - Green Bay would have won by 5 points.

    The officials ruled on the field that Tate had simultaneous possession with Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings, which counts as a reception. The NFL upheld the call on Tuesday.

    ''I'm not complaining, but it did feel a little dirty,'' said Wesley Wong, 25, of Toronto, who said he had a combined $1,000 on the game on wagers on Seattle and a low scoring total.

    Gambling expert RJ Bell of Las Vegas-based Pregame.com said an estimated two-thirds of bets worldwide were on the Packers, with about $150 million more bet on Green Bay than Seattle.

    ''Due to one call by the replacement refs, the bettors lost $150 million, and the bookie won $150 million for a total swing of $300 million on one debatably bad call,'' Bell said.

    Mike Colbert, head oddsmaker for Cantor Gaming, which runs seven sports books in Las Vegas and provides betting lines to 90 percent of Nevada's casinos, said Cantor's books took in about 20 percent more money in bets than usual for a Monday night game after a wild weekend.

    Wong said he made a last-minute parlay bet on Seattle and the under to try to make up for losses on Sunday.

    Colbert said that as an NFL fan, he felt for bettors who lost because of the play even though his sports books won money.

    ''When everything went down, I gotta tell you, I was absolutely sick to my stomach,'' Colbert said.

    Casinos had already begun to react to replacement officials before Week 3 began, predicting the most scoring ever across the league.

    Now, adjustments for replacement referees that were only talked about previously are being factored into betting lines, Colbert said.

    ''We've seen it now,'' Colbert said. ''If we do see trends and we see bets, we'll move more aggressively than we did in the past.''

    Teams normally get a 3-point edge factored into the line when they play at home. That home edge could be worth a half-point more with games refereed by replacement officials, depending on the game, Colbert said. Colbert said he believed the Monday night referees got caught up in the excitement of Seattle's home crowd.

    ''I'd be willing to make a big bet that if that game is in Green Bay, that play is overturned and they win it,'' he said.

    Bettors are also reacting. Wong said he's wagering 20 percent less on NFL games than usual because of the unpredictability of the referees and other factors. He said his friends are cutting their bets in half or talking about avoiding NFL wagers for a few weeks if the replacement officials stay in.

    ''I'm willing to put less at risk at this point,'' Wong said. ''I'm not motivated to put that much on the table.''

    Johnny Avello, race and sports director at the Wynn Las Vegas hotel-casino, said plays - and mistakes - happen each week throughout the year that decide the outcomes of bets. But this moment was magnified, he said, because it happened at the end of the game and the call single-handedly decided the outcome.

    ''If you're a bettor, it's going to be hard to get over,'' he said. ''Some may back off, and that's yet to be seen.''


     
    blackcrow
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    Posted: Sep. 25, 2012 - 5:36 PM ET #2

    As if the old ref #26 does not get a good retirement fund after this
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    As if the old ref #26 does not get a good retirement fund after this
     
    Luckylunchbox
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    Posted: Sep. 25, 2012 - 5:48 PM ET #3

    It's a problem world wide and it's only going to get worse, I love betting tennis but i had to give up other than grand slams because it's so corrupted

    That last series on monday night was by far the worst i have seen in sports
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    It's a problem world wide and it's only going to get worse, I love betting tennis but i had to give up other than grand slams because it's so corrupted

    That last series on monday night was by far the worst i have seen in sports
     
    rod_steel
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    Posted: Sep. 25, 2012 - 5:50 PM ET #4

    I imagine Seahawks winning was a good result for Vegas though
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    I imagine Seahawks winning was a good result for Vegas though
     
    Luckylunchbox
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    Posted: Sep. 25, 2012 - 5:58 PM ET #5

    70-80% of Money held on Packers -3/-3.5
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    70-80% of Money held on Packers -3/-3.5
     
    norseman67
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    Posted: Sep. 25, 2012 - 7:56 PM ET #6

    If the game had been in GB, I probably would have taken them.
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    If the game had been in GB, I probably would have taken them.
     
    Luckylunchbox
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    Posted: Sep. 25, 2012 - 8:07 PM ET #7

    If the game was in greenbay the line would have been over 7
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    If the game was in greenbay the line would have been over 7
     
    MVPease
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    Posted: Sep. 25, 2012 - 9:17 PM ET #8

    had packers 1-6 so unfortunately i contributed to that figure
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    had packers 1-6 so unfortunately i contributed to that figure
     
    norseman67
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    Posted: Sep. 25, 2012 - 9:45 PM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by Luckylunchbox:

    If the game was in greenbay the line would have been over 7



    it would have been in that area. Most of what I bet in the NFL has to do with the ML, anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckylunchbox:

    If the game was in greenbay the line would have been over 7



    it would have been in that area. Most of what I bet in the NFL has to do with the ML, anyway.
     
    norseman67
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    Posted: Sep. 26, 2012 - 4:29 PM ET #10

    Casino offers refunds on Seattle-Green Bay game


    A Las Vegas casino took an unusual step Wednesday and offered refunds to gamblers who lost money when the Seattle Seahawks beat the Green Bay Packers on a controversial touchdown at the end of Monday night's game.

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    Casino offers refunds on Seattle-Green Bay game


    A Las Vegas casino took an unusual step Wednesday and offered refunds to gamblers who lost money when the Seattle Seahawks beat the Green Bay Packers on a controversial touchdown at the end of Monday night's game.

     
    Hirschfelder
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    Posted: Sep. 27, 2012 - 1:15 AM ET #11

    $300 million

    getting a tout to quote turnover figures
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    $300 million

    getting a tout to quote turnover figures
     
    norseman67
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    Posted: Sep. 27, 2012 - 1:53 AM ET #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirschfelder:

    $300 million

    getting a tout to quote turnover figures



    I don't think you know the IQ of Vegas in such matters, or how much $$$ is bet on football worldwide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirschfelder:

    $300 million

    getting a tout to quote turnover figures



    I don't think you know the IQ of Vegas in such matters, or how much $$$ is bet on football worldwide.
     
    Ace77
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    Posted: Sep. 27, 2012 - 1:59 AM ET #13

    Vegas and TAB are the Avengers 
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    Vegas and TAB are the Avengers 
     
    Hirschfelder
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    Posted: Sep. 27, 2012 - 2:13 AM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by norseman67:




    I don't think you know the IQ of Vegas in such matters, or how much $$$ is bet on football worldwide.


    RJ Bell is a tout, he knows 3/5ths of fuck all about how much is bet

    Vegas turnover 3b per year on all sports, >1% of worldwide turnover. Their relevance is practically zero.

    and I know the approx $ of turnover workdwide for every sport, and what is quoted above is sensationalist bullshit
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    Quote Originally Posted by norseman67:




    I don't think you know the IQ of Vegas in such matters, or how much $$$ is bet on football worldwide.


    RJ Bell is a tout, he knows 3/5ths of fuck all about how much is bet

    Vegas turnover 3b per year on all sports, >1% of worldwide turnover. Their relevance is practically zero.

    and I know the approx $ of turnover workdwide for every sport, and what is quoted above is sensationalist bullshit
     
    norseman67
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    Posted: Sep. 27, 2012 - 5:48 PM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirschfelder:



    RJ Bell is a tout, he knows 3/5ths of fuck all about how much is bet

    Vegas turnover 3b per year on all sports, >1% of worldwide turnover. Their relevance is practically zero.

    and I know the approx $ of turnover workdwide for every sport, and what is quoted above is sensationalist bullshit



    What he said wasn't any different than what was being said from all over, including Jay Kornegay. And 300 million for a good Monday Night Football match up is NOR out of the ordinary. These guys have this down to a science, even the subconscious smells in the casinos.



    Jeff Sherman, assistant director of the race and sportsbook at the Las Vegas Hotel, says he estimates that the game shifted $15 million in Nevada alone and also concurs with Avello that the worldwide number, including offshore sportsbooks and in Europe, is worth about 10 times more.

    Those who take bets online estimated the shift in money was even greater.

    Mike Perry, spokesman for betting site Sportsbook.ag, told ESPN.com his estimate in the money swing on the call at the end of the game is closer to between $200 million and $250 million.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirschfelder:



    RJ Bell is a tout, he knows 3/5ths of fuck all about how much is bet

    Vegas turnover 3b per year on all sports, >1% of worldwide turnover. Their relevance is practically zero.

    and I know the approx $ of turnover workdwide for every sport, and what is quoted above is sensationalist bullshit



    What he said wasn't any different than what was being said from all over, including Jay Kornegay. And 300 million for a good Monday Night Football match up is NOR out of the ordinary. These guys have this down to a science, even the subconscious smells in the casinos.



    Jeff Sherman, assistant director of the race and sportsbook at the Las Vegas Hotel, says he estimates that the game shifted $15 million in Nevada alone and also concurs with Avello that the worldwide number, including offshore sportsbooks and in Europe, is worth about 10 times more.

    Those who take bets online estimated the shift in money was even greater.

    Mike Perry, spokesman for betting site Sportsbook.ag, told ESPN.com his estimate in the money swing on the call at the end of the game is closer to between $200 million and $250 million.


     
    Hirschfelder
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    Posted: Sep. 27, 2012 - 7:16 PM ET #16

    NFL gets practically zero turnover outside the US. The caribean books hold, but numbers are greatly over estimated. Pinnacle holds, cris too. The others, including the greek and sportsbook, hold very little.

    The average hold in Nevada for a NFL game is 2.5 million. Double it for MNF and you are still a long, long way from the numbers being bandied about. The NGC publishes numbers, so these aren't made up to sound good to muppets in the media who know nothing better. Vegas is irrelevant in the gambling world.

    Once again this is sensationalised bullshit. Makes me laugh when they say a MNF game involoving Seattle held 2/3rd of a Superbowl and 3 times as much as the Melb Cup.

    Books make up shit all the time to sound big - paddy power, ladbrokes, sportsbet, sportingbet, centrebet, neil evans are all prime examples.
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    NFL gets practically zero turnover outside the US. The caribean books hold, but numbers are greatly over estimated. Pinnacle holds, cris too. The others, including the greek and sportsbook, hold very little.

    The average hold in Nevada for a NFL game is 2.5 million. Double it for MNF and you are still a long, long way from the numbers being bandied about. The NGC publishes numbers, so these aren't made up to sound good to muppets in the media who know nothing better. Vegas is irrelevant in the gambling world.

    Once again this is sensationalised bullshit. Makes me laugh when they say a MNF game involoving Seattle held 2/3rd of a Superbowl and 3 times as much as the Melb Cup.

    Books make up shit all the time to sound big - paddy power, ladbrokes, sportsbet, sportingbet, centrebet, neil evans are all prime examples.
     
     
    Luckylunchbox
    Luckylunchbox
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    Posted: Sep. 27, 2012 - 7:26 PM ET #17

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirschfelder:



    RJ Bell is a tout, he knows 3/5ths of fuck all about how much is bet

    Vegas turnover 3b per year on all sports, >1% of worldwide turnover. Their relevance is practically zero.

    and I know the approx $ of turnover workdwide for every sport, and what is quoted above is sensationalist bullshit

    If you know this and don't mind answering i would love to know how much sports betting has grown over the past few years, and do you think it will have match racing in turnover? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirschfelder:



    RJ Bell is a tout, he knows 3/5ths of fuck all about how much is bet

    Vegas turnover 3b per year on all sports, >1% of worldwide turnover. Their relevance is practically zero.

    and I know the approx $ of turnover workdwide for every sport, and what is quoted above is sensationalist bullshit

    If you know this and don't mind answering i would love to know how much sports betting has grown over the past few years, and do you think it will have match racing in turnover? 
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