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    All Forums | Pro Football

    Tennessee at Green Bay (12/23/2012)

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    13BLACK
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    Posted: Dec. 18, 2012 - 1:05 AM ET #1

    Away:  Tennessee [5-9 ATS]
    Home:  Green Bay [8-6 ATS]

    Game Time: 1:00 PM
    Stadium: Lambeau Field

    Recent Meetings:
    N/A

    Team Leaders:

    Tennessee:
    Passing: Jake Locker (1884)
    Rushing: Chris Johnson (1159)
    Receiving: Nate Washington (710)

    Green Bay:
    Passing: Aaron Rodgers (3588)
    Rushing: Alex Green (464)
    Receiving: Randall Cobb (892)

    More:
    Live Odds
    In-Depth Matchup Information
    Consensus Betting Information

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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    Away:  Tennessee [5-9 ATS]
    Home:  Green Bay [8-6 ATS]

    Game Time: 1:00 PM
    Stadium: Lambeau Field

    Recent Meetings:
    N/A

    Team Leaders:

    Tennessee:
    Passing: Jake Locker (1884)
    Rushing: Chris Johnson (1159)
    Receiving: Nate Washington (710)

    Green Bay:
    Passing: Aaron Rodgers (3588)
    Rushing: Alex Green (464)
    Receiving: Randall Cobb (892)

    More:
    Live Odds
    In-Depth Matchup Information
    Consensus Betting Information

     
    13BLACK
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    Posted: Dec. 18, 2012 - 1:51 AM ET #2

    Greenbay BABY!
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    Greenbay BABY!
     
    imaxfli
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    Posted: Dec. 18, 2012 - 9:19 AM ET #3

    Dear Titan Head(and assistants) Coach: Chris Johnson is not a good enough runner to be your everydown back, if there is no gaping hole, he does little to get any yards atall, get someone who can. When defenses blitz your QB and the 3 remaining Dbacks play a zone, your receivers don't need to run the pattern given to them for the play, all they need to do is run to an open spot 10-15 yards down field and STOP, even Jake Locker can get them the ball then, and tell him to throw it on the low side, so your receivers don't all get killed...........Blizzard coming to Titletowne this Sunday...........(and maybe  another Championship if Pack can beat the Falcons in January-have to admit Falcon defense(who the Pack OWN, is much improved)). Titans might not score a point....GB 23-0.
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    Dear Titan Head(and assistants) Coach: Chris Johnson is not a good enough runner to be your everydown back, if there is no gaping hole, he does little to get any yards atall, get someone who can. When defenses blitz your QB and the 3 remaining Dbacks play a zone, your receivers don't need to run the pattern given to them for the play, all they need to do is run to an open spot 10-15 yards down field and STOP, even Jake Locker can get them the ball then, and tell him to throw it on the low side, so your receivers don't all get killed...........Blizzard coming to Titletowne this Sunday...........(and maybe  another Championship if Pack can beat the Falcons in January-have to admit Falcon defense(who the Pack OWN, is much improved)). Titans might not score a point....GB 23-0.
     
    TheQuadYeah
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    Posted: Dec. 18, 2012 - 10:32 AM ET #4

    Quote Originally Posted by imaxfli:

    Dear Titan Head(and assistants) Coach: Chris Johnson is not a good enough runner to be your everydown back, if there is no gaping hole, he does little to get any yards atall, get someone who can. When defenses blitz your QB and the 3 remaining Dbacks play a zone, your receivers don't need to run the pattern given to them for the play, all they need to do is run to an open spot 10-15 yards down field and STOP, even Jake Locker can get them the ball then, and tell him to throw it on the low side, so your receivers don't all get killed...........Blizzard coming to Titletowne this Sunday...........(and maybe  another Championship if Pack can beat the Falcons in January-have to admit Falcon defense(who the Pack OWN, is much improved)). Titans might not score a point....GB 23-0.

    So, you weren't impressed by the Monday Night win over the Jets, thus ending their playoff "run"?

    Yeah, me neither.........

    short week, on the road, south team travelling to the North Pole, Nelson & Driver should be back catching bombs, Woodson and all of the defense should be active, Packers playing "lights out" while the Titans playing "lights off"...........

    11.5 sounds reasonable, but much like you, I don't see the Titans scoring much more than a long FG - MAYBE

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    Quote Originally Posted by imaxfli:

    Dear Titan Head(and assistants) Coach: Chris Johnson is not a good enough runner to be your everydown back, if there is no gaping hole, he does little to get any yards atall, get someone who can. When defenses blitz your QB and the 3 remaining Dbacks play a zone, your receivers don't need to run the pattern given to them for the play, all they need to do is run to an open spot 10-15 yards down field and STOP, even Jake Locker can get them the ball then, and tell him to throw it on the low side, so your receivers don't all get killed...........Blizzard coming to Titletowne this Sunday...........(and maybe  another Championship if Pack can beat the Falcons in January-have to admit Falcon defense(who the Pack OWN, is much improved)). Titans might not score a point....GB 23-0.

    So, you weren't impressed by the Monday Night win over the Jets, thus ending their playoff "run"?

    Yeah, me neither.........

    short week, on the road, south team travelling to the North Pole, Nelson & Driver should be back catching bombs, Woodson and all of the defense should be active, Packers playing "lights out" while the Titans playing "lights off"...........

    11.5 sounds reasonable, but much like you, I don't see the Titans scoring much more than a long FG - MAYBE

     
    Sammy_Ace
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    Posted: Dec. 18, 2012 - 9:23 PM ET #5

    So the Titans won their last nationally televised game of the year, aka their super bowl, on Monday night. Despite Sanchez donating 5 turnovers to their cause, they were only able to score 14 points at home against a subpar Jets defense. It's no secret, the Titans are not really impressive and the Jets are an NFL version of the Bad News Bears (they really find the funniest ways to turn the ball over). The Titans are a team that is still trying to find their identity. Jake Locker has shown he has potential, but has been plagued by injuries all season, and has been unable to get enough repetitions to learn the system. Meanwhile Chris Johnson, their best player, is only running hard because he knows this is an audition for possible suitors next year. I really don't see how Bud Adams is going to pick up his option next year after his really slow start, and some of those embarrassing home losses. I don't think he will be sinking $9m into any player on this team.

    The Packers are a horse of a different color. After getting embarrassed by the Giants last month, when they were clearly not at full strength, they have quietly taken care of business and won & covered 3 straight against their division rivals. The Packers are firing on all cylinders and are starting to get healthy. With Clay Matthews back, this defense is an entirely different unit. Now with the possible return of Charles Woodson, they are a very dangerous team, and I could easily see them making a run to the NFC Championship game. 

    I'm sure some people might expect the Packers to take their foot off the gas now that they have clinched the North. But I don't see that happening. The Packers will want to be playing their best football going into the playoffs, and I think they would prefer to go in with strong momentum as they learned a very important lesson last year.     
    Last year, the 13-0 Packers lost in week 15 to the Chiefs, and took their foot off the gas at the end of the year. They didn't even start Aaron Rodgers in week 17 because it was a pointless game, and therefore Rodgers went 2 full weeks without taking a snap until their playoff game against the Giants. And we all know how that ended up. If the Giants and Patriots have taught us anything, its that momentum can be a powerful thing at the end of the year, and resting your players and going through the motions in the final weeks of the season can be a fatal flaw. 

    What I'm trying to say, is that the Packers will still be motivated for this game, and the Titans just wont have the answer. I think Jake Locker's first game at Lambeau Field is going to be a fun experience, up until his first drive when Clay Matthews introduces him to the frozen tundra (temperatures will range from 25-18). We all know that CJ could break off a big run here and there, but when you're down by 3 scores in the 3rd quarter, its going to be tough to stick to the running game.

    I know 13 points is a lot of chalk, but its not enough to scare me from taking the Pack once again this week.
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    So the Titans won their last nationally televised game of the year, aka their super bowl, on Monday night. Despite Sanchez donating 5 turnovers to their cause, they were only able to score 14 points at home against a subpar Jets defense. It's no secret, the Titans are not really impressive and the Jets are an NFL version of the Bad News Bears (they really find the funniest ways to turn the ball over). The Titans are a team that is still trying to find their identity. Jake Locker has shown he has potential, but has been plagued by injuries all season, and has been unable to get enough repetitions to learn the system. Meanwhile Chris Johnson, their best player, is only running hard because he knows this is an audition for possible suitors next year. I really don't see how Bud Adams is going to pick up his option next year after his really slow start, and some of those embarrassing home losses. I don't think he will be sinking $9m into any player on this team.

    The Packers are a horse of a different color. After getting embarrassed by the Giants last month, when they were clearly not at full strength, they have quietly taken care of business and won & covered 3 straight against their division rivals. The Packers are firing on all cylinders and are starting to get healthy. With Clay Matthews back, this defense is an entirely different unit. Now with the possible return of Charles Woodson, they are a very dangerous team, and I could easily see them making a run to the NFC Championship game. 

    I'm sure some people might expect the Packers to take their foot off the gas now that they have clinched the North. But I don't see that happening. The Packers will want to be playing their best football going into the playoffs, and I think they would prefer to go in with strong momentum as they learned a very important lesson last year.     
    Last year, the 13-0 Packers lost in week 15 to the Chiefs, and took their foot off the gas at the end of the year. They didn't even start Aaron Rodgers in week 17 because it was a pointless game, and therefore Rodgers went 2 full weeks without taking a snap until their playoff game against the Giants. And we all know how that ended up. If the Giants and Patriots have taught us anything, its that momentum can be a powerful thing at the end of the year, and resting your players and going through the motions in the final weeks of the season can be a fatal flaw. 

    What I'm trying to say, is that the Packers will still be motivated for this game, and the Titans just wont have the answer. I think Jake Locker's first game at Lambeau Field is going to be a fun experience, up until his first drive when Clay Matthews introduces him to the frozen tundra (temperatures will range from 25-18). We all know that CJ could break off a big run here and there, but when you're down by 3 scores in the 3rd quarter, its going to be tough to stick to the running game.

    I know 13 points is a lot of chalk, but its not enough to scare me from taking the Pack once again this week.
     
    IFadeMyselfSome
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 12:06 AM ET #6

    Great write up Sammy and I agree.
    Only thing I would add is Clay is out for the year as far as I know.
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    Great write up Sammy and I agree.
    Only thing I would add is Clay is out for the year as far as I know.
     
    Sammy_Ace
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 9:09 AM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by IFadeMyselfSome:

    Great write up Sammy and I agree.
    Only thing I would add is Clay is out for the year as far as I know.

    Clay played last week against Chicago and looked like his old self. He was in Cutler's face all game. To be honest, I think they could have played him against Detroit 2 weeks ago, but they wanted him 100% for the key game at Soldier Field. 

    Trust me, he looked a 100%.   
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    Quote Originally Posted by IFadeMyselfSome:

    Great write up Sammy and I agree.
    Only thing I would add is Clay is out for the year as far as I know.

    Clay played last week against Chicago and looked like his old self. He was in Cutler's face all game. To be honest, I think they could have played him against Detroit 2 weeks ago, but they wanted him 100% for the key game at Soldier Field. 

    Trust me, he looked a 100%.   
     
    city
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 9:30 AM ET #8

    dam sure did GB
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    dam sure did GB
     
    heatformer
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 10:44 AM ET #9

    gb
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    gb
     
    Tarynfor12
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 11:28 AM ET #10

    Momentum and the quite strong possibility of the Niners losing to Sea,which will then leave the #2 seed in the hands of the Packers to get a win in Minn next week.

    I cannot envision this team coming close to laying an egg at home against the Titans and helping in that will be doing all they can to keep Crosby off the field by scoring TDs. 

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    Momentum and the quite strong possibility of the Niners losing to Sea,which will then leave the #2 seed in the hands of the Packers to get a win in Minn next week.

    I cannot envision this team coming close to laying an egg at home against the Titans and helping in that will be doing all they can to keep Crosby off the field by scoring TDs. 

     
    dustyvaultz
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 12:39 PM ET #11

    Chad Johnson's breakout area bowl time
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    Chad Johnson's breakout area bowl time
     
    dustyvaultz
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 12:40 PM ET #12

    Lol at "Chad" I meant Chris of course
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    Lol at "Chad" I meant Chris of course
     
    idle_havoc
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 5:11 PM ET #13

    second seed still up for grabs, GB still have something to play for in regular season, they wont let up now. -13 is a lot but it's against the titans and even though they beat the Jets last Monday they still looked like crap 
    GB -13
    Gotta go pee!
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    second seed still up for grabs, GB still have something to play for in regular season, they wont let up now. -13 is a lot but it's against the titans and even though they beat the Jets last Monday they still looked like crap 
    GB -13
     
    vue21849
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 10:01 PM ET #14

    GREEN BAY  - 12.5

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    GREEN BAY  - 12.5

     
    NoFrigginWay
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    Posted: Dec. 19, 2012 - 10:11 PM ET #15

            ?
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            ?
     
    gfoss59
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 1:05 AM ET #16

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy_Ace:


    Clay played last week against Chicago and looked like his old self. He was in Cutler's face all game. To be honest, I think they could have played him against Detroit 2 weeks ago, but they wanted him 100% for the key game at Soldier Field. 

    Trust me, he looked a 100%.   


    Clay looked great, which shocked me.  (Reports they had him on a snap count, &tc.)  Good to have him back.

    That said, I'd take Tenn. and the +13.5.  I see a Packer win, but picture us trying to develop the run game (not a bad idea) if we do get up.

    Packers haven't been wiping anybody out, just getting by.  Yes, hoping for #2, but there's a little bit of a letdown after beating the Bears and clinching the division.

    24-13 Packers.  And let's hope we find a kicker soon. There are guys selling used cars out there if Mason just doesn't have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy_Ace:


    Clay played last week against Chicago and looked like his old self. He was in Cutler's face all game. To be honest, I think they could have played him against Detroit 2 weeks ago, but they wanted him 100% for the key game at Soldier Field. 

    Trust me, he looked a 100%.   


    Clay looked great, which shocked me.  (Reports they had him on a snap count, &tc.)  Good to have him back.

    That said, I'd take Tenn. and the +13.5.  I see a Packer win, but picture us trying to develop the run game (not a bad idea) if we do get up.

    Packers haven't been wiping anybody out, just getting by.  Yes, hoping for #2, but there's a little bit of a letdown after beating the Bears and clinching the division.

    24-13 Packers.  And let's hope we find a kicker soon. There are guys selling used cars out there if Mason just doesn't have it.

     
    IFadeMyselfSome
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 7:21 AM ET #17

    Thanks for the insight Sammy on Mathews.
    I think the trap game of the week, is The Texas and Vikings.
    The odds makers clearly believe setting that line, the public will be all over The Vikings and they are.
    However this game, I'll side with the public and take GB for some easy money because it seems they are setting the line to scare people off The Packers.
    Score should be around 31 to 13 or so.
    Vue says The Vikings are his prime play, which proves my point.
    Two team Packers and Texans, 20+ units.
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    Thanks for the insight Sammy on Mathews.
    I think the trap game of the week, is The Texas and Vikings.
    The odds makers clearly believe setting that line, the public will be all over The Vikings and they are.
    However this game, I'll side with the public and take GB for some easy money because it seems they are setting the line to scare people off The Packers.
    Score should be around 31 to 13 or so.
    Vue says The Vikings are his prime play, which proves my point.
    Two team Packers and Texans, 20+ units.
     
    alecboyh
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    Posted: Dec. 20, 2012 - 2:29 PM ET #18

    A NO BRAINER ... GREEN BAY IS ON A MISSION ...

    PACKERS -13 ...
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    A NO BRAINER ... GREEN BAY IS ON A MISSION ...

    PACKERS -13 ...
     
    ebpadjen
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2012 - 1:57 PM ET #19

    I expect Rodgers to be under pressure most of the game and who knows what the deal with his ankle is.  Titans +14.
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    I expect Rodgers to be under pressure most of the game and who knows what the deal with his ankle is.  Titans +14.
     
    imaxfli
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2012 - 2:18 PM ET #20

    Weather to be 25 degrees F with little wind on Sunday.....this Tennessee offense ain't gonna do squat...take the PACK and the UNDER!!!
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    Weather to be 25 degrees F with little wind on Sunday.....this Tennessee offense ain't gonna do squat...take the PACK and the UNDER!!!
     
    joedaddy76
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2012 - 6:27 PM ET #21

    i watched that entirely dreadful game last week with Titans and Jets and after much analysis i had concluded that Titans suck but they sucked a bit less than Jets cuzz at least they have a QB whereas Jets were stuck with a clown named Cantchez and a fat loser coach. 

    Packers are back on track and loaded with considerably more talent than this Titans team.  They should easily win this game by 2 scores or more since they have learned by their mistaken approach to the end of their season last year. 

    Pack minus wutevs

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    i watched that entirely dreadful game last week with Titans and Jets and after much analysis i had concluded that Titans suck but they sucked a bit less than Jets cuzz at least they have a QB whereas Jets were stuck with a clown named Cantchez and a fat loser coach. 

    Packers are back on track and loaded with considerably more talent than this Titans team.  They should easily win this game by 2 scores or more since they have learned by their mistaken approach to the end of their season last year. 

    Pack minus wutevs

     
    picks_free
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2012 - 8:05 PM ET #22

    PROJ: TENNESSEE 21 - 24 GREEN BAY
    PLAY: TENNESSEE +12.5 / 44.5 OVER
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    PROJ: TENNESSEE 21 - 24 GREEN BAY
    PLAY: TENNESSEE +12.5 / 44.5 OVER
     
    gfoss59
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    Posted: Dec. 22, 2012 - 6:23 AM ET #23

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy_Ace:


    The Packers are firing on all cylinders and are starting to get healthy. With Clay Matthews back, this defense is an entirely different unit. Now with the possible return of Charles Woodson, they are a very dangerous team, and I could easily see them making a run to the NFC Championship game. 


    Packers are steadily getting healthy, and shaking up a battered offensive line -- but they're not firing on all cylinders.

    They're also keen to avoid another of last year's mistakes, i.e., heading into the playoffs with no run game.

    So while I agree they may be on a run to the NFC title game, or farther, this week, I see another win typical of the Green Bay pattern in recent weeks...  improving defense with Clay back, little bit too much pressure for ARoj to be fully comfy, and a nice, solid, 10-11 point win.

    And there's going to be a little letdown after taking care of the Vikings, Lions, and Bears.

    Not enough to cover.  Take Tennessee and the points, and probably the under.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy_Ace:


    The Packers are firing on all cylinders and are starting to get healthy. With Clay Matthews back, this defense is an entirely different unit. Now with the possible return of Charles Woodson, they are a very dangerous team, and I could easily see them making a run to the NFC Championship game. 


    Packers are steadily getting healthy, and shaking up a battered offensive line -- but they're not firing on all cylinders.

    They're also keen to avoid another of last year's mistakes, i.e., heading into the playoffs with no run game.

    So while I agree they may be on a run to the NFC title game, or farther, this week, I see another win typical of the Green Bay pattern in recent weeks...  improving defense with Clay back, little bit too much pressure for ARoj to be fully comfy, and a nice, solid, 10-11 point win.

    And there's going to be a little letdown after taking care of the Vikings, Lions, and Bears.

    Not enough to cover.  Take Tennessee and the points, and probably the under.

     
    ebpadjen
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    Posted: Dec. 22, 2012 - 8:57 AM ET #24

    Don't forget the packers don't get field goals anymore
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    Don't forget the packers don't get field goals anymore
     
     
    mbseahawks82
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    Posted: Dec. 23, 2012 - 12:29 AM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy_Ace:

    So the Titans won their last nationally televised game of the year, aka their super bowl, on Monday night. Despite Sanchez donating 5 turnovers to their cause, they were only able to score 14 points at home against a subpar Jets defense. It's no secret, the Titans are not really impressive and the Jets are an NFL version of the Bad News Bears (they really find the funniest ways to turn the ball over). The Titans are a team that is still trying to find their identity. Jake Locker has shown he has potential, but has been plagued by injuries all season, and has been unable to get enough repetitions to learn the system. Meanwhile Chris Johnson, their best player, is only running hard because he knows this is an audition for possible suitors next year. I really don't see how Bud Adams is going to pick up his option next year after his really slow start, and some of those embarrassing home losses. I don't think he will be sinking $9m into any player on this team.

    The Packers are a horse of a different color. After getting embarrassed by the Giants last month, when they were clearly not at full strength, they have quietly taken care of business and won & covered 3 straight against their division rivals. The Packers are firing on all cylinders and are starting to get healthy. With Clay Matthews back, this defense is an entirely different unit. Now with the possible return of Charles Woodson, they are a very dangerous team, and I could easily see them making a run to the NFC Championship game. 

    I'm sure some people might expect the Packers to take their foot off the gas now that they have clinched the North. But I don't see that happening. The Packers will want to be playing their best football going into the playoffs, and I think they would prefer to go in with strong momentum as they learned a very important lesson last year.     
    Last year, the 13-0 Packers lost in week 15 to the Chiefs, and took their foot off the gas at the end of the year. They didn't even start Aaron Rodgers in week 17 because it was a pointless game, and therefore Rodgers went 2 full weeks without taking a snap until their playoff game against the Giants. And we all know how that ended up. If the Giants and Patriots have taught us anything, its that momentum can be a powerful thing at the end of the year, and resting your players and going through the motions in the final weeks of the season can be a fatal flaw. 

    What I'm trying to say, is that the Packers will still be motivated for this game, and the Titans just wont have the answer. I think Jake Locker's first game at Lambeau Field is going to be a fun experience, up until his first drive when Clay Matthews introduces him to the frozen tundra (temperatures will range from 25-18). We all know that CJ could break off a big run here and there, but when you're down by 3 scores in the 3rd quarter, its going to be tough to stick to the running game.

    I know 13 points is a lot of chalk, but its not enough to scare me from taking the Pack once again this week.
    sammy ace i will shut up and listen  others should follow
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy_Ace:

    So the Titans won their last nationally televised game of the year, aka their super bowl, on Monday night. Despite Sanchez donating 5 turnovers to their cause, they were only able to score 14 points at home against a subpar Jets defense. It's no secret, the Titans are not really impressive and the Jets are an NFL version of the Bad News Bears (they really find the funniest ways to turn the ball over). The Titans are a team that is still trying to find their identity. Jake Locker has shown he has potential, but has been plagued by injuries all season, and has been unable to get enough repetitions to learn the system. Meanwhile Chris Johnson, their best player, is only running hard because he knows this is an audition for possible suitors next year. I really don't see how Bud Adams is going to pick up his option next year after his really slow start, and some of those embarrassing home losses. I don't think he will be sinking $9m into any player on this team.

    The Packers are a horse of a different color. After getting embarrassed by the Giants last month, when they were clearly not at full strength, they have quietly taken care of business and won & covered 3 straight against their division rivals. The Packers are firing on all cylinders and are starting to get healthy. With Clay Matthews back, this defense is an entirely different unit. Now with the possible return of Charles Woodson, they are a very dangerous team, and I could easily see them making a run to the NFC Championship game. 

    I'm sure some people might expect the Packers to take their foot off the gas now that they have clinched the North. But I don't see that happening. The Packers will want to be playing their best football going into the playoffs, and I think they would prefer to go in with strong momentum as they learned a very important lesson last year.     
    Last year, the 13-0 Packers lost in week 15 to the Chiefs, and took their foot off the gas at the end of the year. They didn't even start Aaron Rodgers in week 17 because it was a pointless game, and therefore Rodgers went 2 full weeks without taking a snap until their playoff game against the Giants. And we all know how that ended up. If the Giants and Patriots have taught us anything, its that momentum can be a powerful thing at the end of the year, and resting your players and going through the motions in the final weeks of the season can be a fatal flaw. 

    What I'm trying to say, is that the Packers will still be motivated for this game, and the Titans just wont have the answer. I think Jake Locker's first game at Lambeau Field is going to be a fun experience, up until his first drive when Clay Matthews introduces him to the frozen tundra (temperatures will range from 25-18). We all know that CJ could break off a big run here and there, but when you're down by 3 scores in the 3rd quarter, its going to be tough to stick to the running game.

    I know 13 points is a lot of chalk, but its not enough to scare me from taking the Pack once again this week.
    sammy ace i will shut up and listen  others should follow
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