Trump vows to do away with tax on tips.

@cd329

 Typical maga troll.  yeah i meant bump stock for their guns.  Cause this is really something any person needs.  Why dont you head down to florida and you can wax trumps limo for him or other objects

"I caught a live one!"  

You know nothing about me obviously..... You also don't know how to properly troll MAGA either as it was Trump's administration who banned the bump stocks 

Good try, better luck next time  

So let's do the math here. 

During Trump Admin bipartisan action was responsible for 77% of debt, that is $6.468 trillion that both dems and repubs responsible for. That leaves Trump himself and repubs responsible for 23% or $1.932 trillion.

On the flip side, bipartisan is only responsible for 29% under Biden, which is $1.247 trillion and Biden/dems responsible for the other 71% that is $3.053 trillion.

So Trump $1.932 and Biden $3.053

Got it!

@UNIMAN

 Well that looks curious to me because I am of the belief that both sides dont give a crap about debt, not since Clinton has congress cared about running up the deficit so when you throw terms out there it kind of does not make sense.

What was the makeup of the political body of Trump vs Biden? I think the issue about bipartisanship under Biden is the way Trump has built up a wall of disdain and hatred from party to party. It used to be something of a positive that two parties who disagree work out a compromise and accomplish running the country. Now it seems that things do not get done unless you are part of the clique extremist collective on both sides. 

You cant suggest that stat AND not correlate it with efforts to run a balanced budget or at least make fake attempts to come off as fiscally responsible. I dont see either side even trying to be fiscally responsible it is only which partisan narrative gets the cash versus cutting spending and not pigging out on debt.

When was the last time the GOP ran a platform of fiscal responsibility and tried to get the country behind the concept of fiscal responsibility? That would convince your argument not which party spends versus agreeing and spending bipartisan. 

"When we take account of all these tax benefits, what we find is that far from being "tax cuts for the rich," the OBBBA's tax provisions actually reduced the tax bill paid by the middle class by roughly 14 percent. Meanwhile, the share of federal income taxes paid by the richest 10 percent rose from 70 percent to 77 percent, and the top 1 percent share rose from 38 percent to 40 percent.

If the rich are now paying a larger share of the tax pie, how is the Trump tax cut "a giveaway to the rich"? Maybe the Left calls the Trump tax cut "One Big Ugly Tax Bill" because they want every one of us – not just the rich – to pay more taxes."

Nonpartisan congress budget office confirms that republican big ugly bill steals from the poor and gives to the rich.  Working families lose about $1200 a year from cuts to social programs.  Middle class families get next to almost nothing.  Meanwhile ultra rich receives $13,600 a year in tax breaks.

@Raiders22

 Yeah it is a bit off saying that not taxing tips makes up for the cost burden the lower income group has vs the other groups you mentioned. Inflation destroys lower incomes dramatically harder than mid to high earners and as a percentage of income the lowest bracket taxation is quite low anyway. When I was a server back in college most of my co-workers were hand to mouth and this was working at a very high ticket average place. Not taxing tips does almost nothing most servers dont earn enough to break past the standard deduction and it would be a better help if they earned more and costs were lower versus a small federal tax break like this. Id say what Biden wanted to do would have been better than no fed tax on tips. Helping cover education expenses has more of a bang for the buck than taxing tips IMO.

My kiddo who is in university told me about the Trump education scheme its pretty weak that now the credit is 20% of education costs up to 10k, that really is insulting and not nearly enough. The cost annual tuition increase down here is almost that much let alone inflation for living costs.

I confirm that they are wrong as demonstrated by the numbers.

Solid empirical data always trumps agenda and scare tactics.

They are not saying it is 'making up for it' as much as addressing their own burden.

Yep, too much in the whole education system need to be revamped and that is outside of the whole tax system needing revamping as well.

NOTHING and I mean NOTHING Biden wanted to do with taxes would ever be better, period.  No one in his administration should even be considered to give any advice on taxes.

Among G7 countries, US has the worst income inequality driven by tax cuts and stagnant wages for decades.  Among rich countries, US has the weakest tax and transfer system for fighting poverty.  Polls show most Americans favor higher taxes for the rich.  US has one of the lowest total tax revenue as a percent of GDP among developed nations.

@THEMUGG

 They don’t need to give tax breaks! That’s because they bring back the economy no matter how bad the GOP destroys it! How is you never mention the terrible things about current American politics and the dilemma of whether or not to support a scumbag convicted felon, a lifetime tax cheat, and possibly an enabler to a child rapist ??? To MAGA’s it seems like it’s not actually an issue! 

The tax relief on tips and overtime is substantial. Not sure why anyone would be against it. From an employers perspective it is a pain in the ass to track FLSA overtime in California because our overtime is daily and weekly, but nonetheless the amount of savings across the country will be substantial.

I think people just like to complain about anything and everything. 

@ABooksNightmare

 Have you been a server before? I have and this is a facade and a low IQ vote grab nothing else. Outside the louse states where they pay 2 bucks an hour for servers, the percentage of tips to wages is not dramatic plus I will clue you in on a teeny secret servers know...cash tips are regularly under stated by servers as it is their job to report or not.

A server in a high majority of the cases are in the lowest tax brackets so that means the 10-12% range. As a server I made I would say 60-70% of my total comp from tips and that means a net benefit of say 2000-2500. You make it out to be something massive and really it is not. 

Many servers I know did NOT properly fund their tax obligations either many hoped they would break even and not owe and some had arrears and had to file extensions.

There are a slim minority that might make 60k in tips but most average Olive Garden type servers will make 30-40k and 60-70% of that in tips so you do the math and see this is actually pretty lousy.

What would help more is to stop beating servers to a pulp with inflation and rent increases and give incentives more than a shoddy 20% education credit. Do something that can give an out of the service industry and potential to make more. Being a server is probably the hardest job I ever had and wrecks your body and joints.

2000-2500 in alleged tax savings while not making any progress, servers are day to day cash in pocket and survive without vacation and regularly without meaningful benefits.

My point was, that whether you are filing accurate tips or not, or looking at your overtime, there is a savings.....you can call it what you want, but if you are skimming on tips that's on you, but know that you can always get caught and we had companies that came into our program because they got caught failing to report accurately...that's when the IRS increased their Allocated Tip percentage.....

You can say all you want and carry everything over to something other than what I posted, which you like to do a lot, but you cannot argue or debate that what I said about both overtime and tips in the bill is a substantial savings to those affected....the bill also had various other savings, but let's not mention that and instead rag on the fact that other issues are prevalent as opposed to the topic, and my remarks, about a substantial national savings to the affected groups...

And yes, I was a cook, busser and waiter in my younger years, so I am quite familiar with tips for work and as an employer employing employees....try to stay on topic instead of wandering 

@ABooksNightmare

 I said and keep saying it is a nothing burger it has little impact for a server. Isnt the objective to help people and give them ways to improve their lives and get out of the service industry?

I have many server friends from back then I am still connected to via social media and I would say maybe 15% of the people are still serving all these years later and most have moved on to jobs that have better potential, benefits and paid vacation and are not wrecking their bodies like serving does.

Your contention was this is some good thing, I am saying it is not and people who have never served have a total lack of understanding about what servers do and how brutal it is and how obnoxious many customers are.

I knew about the 8% of gross sales stuff I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt with my estimate and keep in mind that to get a credit you have to be paying federal taxes which some or even many are lean on so the benefit really falls short in that regard.

It would be more beneficial to offer incentives to find education or vocation skills versus some paltry puny low rate federal tax scheme. Given you have not been a server you probably lack understanding and needs that actual servers have.

@wallstreetcappers

that means a net benefit of say 2000-2500. You make it out to be something massive and really it is not.  

Isn't this subjective?

Most places will break it down into low-income, typical-server, and high-end server.

The low end will not save much because they are already not paying much in taxes.

The typical server making 50K or so with a mix of 20K/30K would be saving $2500-3000.

The higher-end bartender, etc. would be 80k with a 40k/40k type mix and save $4000-$5000.

Some would argue this is a 'massive' savings for them.  

When you can save 6% -- that is substantial for those folks.  They are instantly doubling the average inflation rate.

Depending on what you think is 'massive' having to pay zero in taxes might not even be considered 'massive'.

It is very relative.

What would help more is to stop beating servers to a pulp with inflation and rent increases and give incentives more than a shoddy 20% education credit. 

Can't they choose and train and educate for another field if their body is being beat up.  Because I know some ancient servers.  But not everyone breaks down at the same age.  That is a personal choice.

Do something that can give an out of the service industry and potential to make more. 

They can do this for themselves.  

This was to give folks a tax-savings and ease their tax burden and NOT to get them an easier, better and higher-paying job.  That is their task to do.

Now they can have a bit more money to figure out a different life path -- if they want to.

I know some very well-paid servers that do not want to do anything else.

This is actually one of my favorite examples to use to explain to folks starting out.

They can start at a mom-and-pop diner learning the trade after school.  They can start at WaffleHouse.  If they have all of their teeth they can move to IHOP.  Then they can move to Olive Garden.  Then they can move to Ruth's Chris Steak House.  Then they can go to a top-rated fine dining restaurant.

But again -- this is personal choice and motivation.

This is why you see so many folks at the top level in any job that keep outpacing those that stay at the lower levels.

But you have to remember -- just because someone does a job for a living, it does not mean they are good at it.

If you are good at your job and work hard you will be compensated at the top end of your field.  It is almost always up to you.

If you going to stay a server then be a great server.

I think this was a good decision to help those average-level servers out with their taxes.

Yeah, because being a waiter, as I stated, is not being a server...is this when you would tell me nice smear, but I'm not buying it...I only put it right in my response, but good way to try to discredit me like you like to do  

It's hard to take you serious sometimes because if it saves a person one dollar even it is a saving that was not afforded previously...I think what you are hung up on is that I somehow said that it is a substantial savings to every individual, when I indeed did not state this...What I said is that "the amount of savings across the country will be substantial. I think people just like to complain about anything and everything."

You proved the latter part of my statement to be true...you just like to complain...when in fact, it is common sense that across the country that both overtime and tips will put more money in individuals pockets because of the bill that was implemented....you can debate it all you want and come up with reasons as to why you think it will not, but the truth is that unless one files there taxes incorrectly, then every single filer who meets these particular categories will indeed save money...that is a fact, but knowing you, you will argue that no one filing is saving any money and would be better off paying higher tax filings as if this bill didn't provide a tax savings....

Yes, you either just like to argue about everything or you just like to counter anything I say.....

The discussion, nor my statement, was not talking about other factors about how we are slamming workers with other issues, but rather simply about how across the nation there will be a substantial savings to those who qualify and are eligible under this bill....If you want to talk about other issues, that is not relevant to the statement I made....

Again, try to follow along and enjoy people saving money regardless of how it happens and over a course of several years....you can complain about other stuff, which you are, but what does that have to do with anything I said....It doesn't....

Again, stay on topic......

@Raiders22

 Your comments show you are not likely from the service industry, your words are out of touch with the reality for most servers and bar staff. Yes SOME high end servers/tenders make a decent living but that is not the majority. I worked at three different places and one was a regional specialty mid price place lower volume another was a national chain middle volume and one was a specialty very high price range higher gross sales place. Not everyone works at Mortons or a high volume bar, that requires a high skill level and I would say few can handle the requirements of higher priced establishments. 

I worked with several students that were in the local engineering program and they worked to pay for their lives and had to mix school with work. Your generalization about school being easy is very off the mark, servers have to work full time to cover living expenses and then you have education expenses on top of that and unless you want to go into debt 100-200k and not have to work the comment about personal choice and motivation is just off the mark. It isnt like servers or bussers or cooks are not motivated or able it is that the requirements of working full time and school is extremely difficult because school full time also means studies or work outside school and having gone through that myself its just a bit of a generalized comment you made and it is erroneous. I was able to work full time and school full time but it ended up being very difficult and few can do it and they should NOT have to work full time making 30k a year to go to school at the same time. The upside and ability to save being a server is a losing proposition it just does not happen. 

My point was that we as a country are so easy to throw cash at corps and war and defense and tech but we are against education and especially the GOP are strongly against creating a solid platform to make education of first priority. 

@ABooksNightmare

 The service industry to does not pay overtime, no place I worked and I did many service jobs early on paid overtime, the people working OT were those on salary not an hourly worker. If you were from the industry you would know that, right?

I am saying substantial it is not for the reasons I state that servers are not making progress with 2k a year or less in federal taxes also for the reasons I stated. I would take out 15% of my income because I did not want to be on the hook at tax time but honestly I was in the slim minority who had fed and ss and medicare covered. Most do not know that in some states you do not earn enough on an hourly rate to cover SS and FICA let alone fed and state, so you had to put aside your tip money and especially back in my time when cash tips were more common vs CC now. Also as you should know that the 8% forced sometimes was more than you make because in addition to getting tips you have to tip OUT many people, I had to tip out the bar and the bussers and some places servers will tip share not keep their own tips. There were times that the claimed requirements was higher than what I actually earned.

If you were from the service industry you would not be thinking what you are unless you were a waiter and not a server, there is a HUGE difference between the two. If you have been in the industry you would know that the wait staff, the people who are doing the work are most often barely hanging in and are struggling to just make their monthly bills and few are able to get out of the rut and that is what has more value not a small no fed tax scheme like this.

Its obvious you have a different perspective and that is fine, I come at it from being a server while in school and having done it at the same time so if you call that off topic ok you can do that but it is on topic in me saying that this is unsubstantial and is not going to elevate the worker or lead them to a better future.

@wallstreetcappers

 I tended bar over 40 years and I can tell you after 1984 cash tips I do not remember any. Yes and overtime in the hotel business was a war even in Union Hotels, does not exist in restaurants. OT was not the issue in Calif., health insurance was the big fight there.

@wallstreetcappers

 It has nothing to do with whether it is my job or not.

It is just that they are saving money on their taxes.  

Correct.  The servers with tips and the hourly workers with OT.

But everyone knows this -- no matter what industry they are in.  You do not need to be in any industry at all to know what was done to the tax code and who it benefited.

But specifically the servers were the ones that are being saved the taxes on the tips we were talking about.

I am saying substantial it is not for the reasons I state that servers are not making progress with 2k a year or less in federal taxes also for the reasons I stated. 

Again, it does not matter what you think about all of the other stuff.

This was just to give them a tax break and not to give them other career choices or educational choices; just a tax break.

the people who are doing the work are most often barely hanging in and are struggling to just make their monthly bills and few are able to get out of the rut and that is what has more value not a small no fed tax scheme like this. 

If they are struggling -- then a 6% savings helps.  There is no way to say that will not help.

Sure, you can argue other things can be done.  But that was not the intent of this.

You can also say those folks need to strive to get to better server jobs.  Or, if they are not a good server, go do something they can be do better.

 It isnt like servers or bussers or cooks are not motivated or able it is that the requirements of working full time and school is extremely difficult because school full time also means studies or work outside school and having gone through that myself its just a bit of a generalized comment you made and it is erroneous. 

Sure, that may be true for some.  But not for all, because so many do it.  If everything was easy everyone would be successful.

Some are not motivated.  They stagnate and stay at whatever level -- mom-and-pop, WaffleHouse, Olive Garden, etc.  They never try to improve past a certain level.

Since you did it, you should know this.

Certainly, it is hard.  But if you get through it and teach your kids hard work ethic and to get good grades and be motivated -- then the cycle does not repeat itself.

Too many folks get stuck in the rut.

If this tax savings can help a few of them to pay their monthly bills and maybe get motivated to improve themselves as well -- I think that is a good thing.

they should NOT have to work full time making 30k a year to go to school at the same time. 

Correct.  They should not have to.  But it can be done.  If they make better choices early on maybe they don't have to.  Or if their parents make better choices, etc.

But they may have to sacrifice and do it.  It may take one person longer than another.

The point is the opportunities are there for anyone.

My point was that we as a country are so easy to throw cash at corps and war and defense and tech but we are against education and especially the GOP are strongly against creating a solid platform to make education of first priority.  

I understand.  But it is not a binary decision.  This was strictly a tax savings thing.

Other things can be done to help folks to get educated or learn a skill.  But some choose to be a server and a good nice paying one and now this will benefit them.

But a country has more to take care of than just making sure everyone has a cushy high-paying job.

Education is not for everyone.  For example, look how watered down degrees are now.  Some choose to get a much needed skill or other necessary things.

If education is so important to that individual or family -- they should, and can, make it happen; it should not be 'handed' to them.

Yes, the whole education system needs revamping.

But so does the tax system.  This is at least a start on that part of it.