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    All Forums | Politics

    Trayvon Martin shooting: no grand jury for Zimmerman

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    bowlslit
    captjohn67
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    bowlslit
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 2:06 PM ET #1

    Florida state attorney Angela Corey, the special prosecutor appointed to investigate the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, said on Monday that the case will not go to a grand jury.

    The decision does not rule out the possibility that George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter, could be arrested.

    The grand jury had been set to meet Tuesday in Sanford, Fla., where the Feb. 26 shooting occurred.

    "From the moment she was assigned, Ms. Corey noted she may not need a grand jury," a statement from Corey's office read. "The decision should not be considered a factor in the final determination of the case. At this time, the investigation continues and there will be no further comment from this office."

    According to the Associated Press, Corey has "a reputation for not presenting cases before grand juries if it wasn't required." (Only first-degree murder cases require the use of grand juries in Florida, the AP noted.)

    [Related: Homeowners' association could be sued]

    The lawyer for Martin's family, Ben Crump, said in a statement that he was hopeful the announcement by the special prosecutor would be followed by the announcement of Zimmerman's arrest.

    "We had hoped she had enough evidence without the need to convene a grand jury," Crump said. "The family is trying to have patience and faith through all of this. We know we want that day to come. We want a very public trial so the evidence can come out and show people that the justice system works for everybody."

    According to Orlando's WFTV, Zimmerman could be arrested as early as this week.

    Meanwhile, Hal Uhrig, Zimmerman's attorney, called Corey's decision not to involve a grand jury "courageous on her part."

    Earlier Monday, lawyers for the neighborhood watchman said that if Zimmerman is not charged, he would speak out. Zimmerman has not spoken to the media since the shooting.

     

    Too bad for those mall cops that are certain he is guilty.

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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    Florida state attorney Angela Corey, the special prosecutor appointed to investigate the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, said on Monday that the case will not go to a grand jury.

    The decision does not rule out the possibility that George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter, could be arrested.

    The grand jury had been set to meet Tuesday in Sanford, Fla., where the Feb. 26 shooting occurred.

    "From the moment she was assigned, Ms. Corey noted she may not need a grand jury," a statement from Corey's office read. "The decision should not be considered a factor in the final determination of the case. At this time, the investigation continues and there will be no further comment from this office."

    According to the Associated Press, Corey has "a reputation for not presenting cases before grand juries if it wasn't required." (Only first-degree murder cases require the use of grand juries in Florida, the AP noted.)

    [Related: Homeowners' association could be sued]

    The lawyer for Martin's family, Ben Crump, said in a statement that he was hopeful the announcement by the special prosecutor would be followed by the announcement of Zimmerman's arrest.

    "We had hoped she had enough evidence without the need to convene a grand jury," Crump said. "The family is trying to have patience and faith through all of this. We know we want that day to come. We want a very public trial so the evidence can come out and show people that the justice system works for everybody."

    According to Orlando's WFTV, Zimmerman could be arrested as early as this week.

    Meanwhile, Hal Uhrig, Zimmerman's attorney, called Corey's decision not to involve a grand jury "courageous on her part."

    Earlier Monday, lawyers for the neighborhood watchman said that if Zimmerman is not charged, he would speak out. Zimmerman has not spoken to the media since the shooting.

     

    Too bad for those mall cops that are certain he is guilty.

     
    bowlslit
    bowlslit
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 2:07 PM ET #2

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    captjohn67
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 2:23 PM ET #3

    dust of your riot gear...
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    dust of your riot gear...
     
    J_Galt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 2:29 PM ET #4

    I guess we know why those paid talking heads are retired.

    The "evidence" that I saw released certainly did not seem sufficient enough to me to proceed with an arrest.

    Now apparently the evidence is so scant, a special prosecute feels she cant even get a group to agree there is
    " reasonable cause to proceed "

    I'm guessing Rev Al, Jesse, and the black panthers will be on the news shortly apologizing for their rush to judgement
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    I guess we know why those paid talking heads are retired.

    The "evidence" that I saw released certainly did not seem sufficient enough to me to proceed with an arrest.

    Now apparently the evidence is so scant, a special prosecute feels she cant even get a group to agree there is
    " reasonable cause to proceed "

    I'm guessing Rev Al, Jesse, and the black panthers will be on the news shortly apologizing for their rush to judgement
     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 2:41 PM ET #5

    Protesters supporting Trayvon Martin shut down the Sanford Police Department on Monday after they barricaded the doors in an act of civil disobedience..

    Obama's  "Dream Defenders "... his secret Army .

    Sounds firmiliar...

    The Sheriff bolts the jail house doors, against the lynch mob and goes out the back door to his waiting horse ..

    ..0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

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    Protesters supporting Trayvon Martin shut down the Sanford Police Department on Monday after they barricaded the doors in an act of civil disobedience..

    Obama's  "Dream Defenders "... his secret Army .

    Sounds firmiliar...

    The Sheriff bolts the jail house doors, against the lynch mob and goes out the back door to his waiting horse ..

    ..0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 2:47 PM ET #6

    understand that this in no way indicates zimmerman will not be arrested and charged.  what it does mean is that if he does get arrested and charged, it will be for second degree murder or manslaughter.
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    understand that this in no way indicates zimmerman will not be arrested and charged.  what it does mean is that if he does get arrested and charged, it will be for second degree murder or manslaughter.
     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:02 PM ET #7

    Kneeling in front of the doors the students demanded Zimmerman's arrest, an overhaul of the justice system and the ouster of elected officials...

    Must be an extra credit assignment,shouldn't they be in school ? 

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    Kneeling in front of the doors the students demanded Zimmerman's arrest, an overhaul of the justice system and the ouster of elected officials...

    Must be an extra credit assignment,shouldn't they be in school ? 

     
    darkhorse12
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:09 PM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:

    Florida state attorney Angela Corey, the special prosecutor appointed to investigate the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, said on Monday that the case will not go to a grand jury.

    The decision does not rule out the possibility that George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter, could be arrested.

    The grand jury had been set to meet Tuesday in Sanford, Fla., where the Feb. 26 shooting occurred.

    "From the moment she was assigned, Ms. Corey noted she may not need a grand jury," a statement from Corey's office read. "The decision should not be considered a factor in the final determination of the case. At this time, the investigation continues and there will be no further comment from this office."

    According to the Associated Press, Corey has "a reputation for not presenting cases before grand juries if it wasn't required." (Only first-degree murder cases require the use of grand juries in Florida, the AP noted.)

    [Related: Homeowners' association could be sued]

    The lawyer for Martin's family, Ben Crump, said in a statement that he was hopeful the announcement by the special prosecutor would be followed by the announcement of Zimmerman's arrest.

    "We had hoped she had enough evidence without the need to convene a grand jury," Crump said. "The family is trying to have patience and faith through all of this. We know we want that day to come. We want a very public trial so the evidence can come out and show people that the justice system works for everybody."

    According to Orlando's WFTV, Zimmerman could be arrested as early as this week.

    Meanwhile, Hal Uhrig, Zimmerman's attorney, called Corey's decision not to involve a grand jury "courageous on her part."

    Earlier Monday, lawyers for the neighborhood watchman said that if Zimmerman is not charged, he would speak out. Zimmerman has not spoken to the media since the shooting.

     

    Too bad for those mall cops that are certain he is guilty.

    So because there will not be a grand jury you think he is innocent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:

    Florida state attorney Angela Corey, the special prosecutor appointed to investigate the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, said on Monday that the case will not go to a grand jury.

    The decision does not rule out the possibility that George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter, could be arrested.

    The grand jury had been set to meet Tuesday in Sanford, Fla., where the Feb. 26 shooting occurred.

    "From the moment she was assigned, Ms. Corey noted she may not need a grand jury," a statement from Corey's office read. "The decision should not be considered a factor in the final determination of the case. At this time, the investigation continues and there will be no further comment from this office."

    According to the Associated Press, Corey has "a reputation for not presenting cases before grand juries if it wasn't required." (Only first-degree murder cases require the use of grand juries in Florida, the AP noted.)

    [Related: Homeowners' association could be sued]

    The lawyer for Martin's family, Ben Crump, said in a statement that he was hopeful the announcement by the special prosecutor would be followed by the announcement of Zimmerman's arrest.

    "We had hoped she had enough evidence without the need to convene a grand jury," Crump said. "The family is trying to have patience and faith through all of this. We know we want that day to come. We want a very public trial so the evidence can come out and show people that the justice system works for everybody."

    According to Orlando's WFTV, Zimmerman could be arrested as early as this week.

    Meanwhile, Hal Uhrig, Zimmerman's attorney, called Corey's decision not to involve a grand jury "courageous on her part."

    Earlier Monday, lawyers for the neighborhood watchman said that if Zimmerman is not charged, he would speak out. Zimmerman has not spoken to the media since the shooting.

     

    Too bad for those mall cops that are certain he is guilty.

    So because there will not be a grand jury you think he is innocent?

     
    bowlslit
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:13 PM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:

    So because there will not be a grand jury you think he is innocent?

    No. I believe he is innocent due to witness statements and no evidence to contradict his account of the fatefull night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:

    So because there will not be a grand jury you think he is innocent?

    No. I believe he is innocent due to witness statements and no evidence to contradict his account of the fatefull night.

     
    J_Galt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:15 PM ET #10

    @#6

    that would be suicide for the police department, in my opinion.

    If a special prosecutor has looked at the evidence ( or lack there of ) and doesn't feel a grand jury will return a true bill, what chance will a prosecutor have in criminal court where the burden of proof is " beyond a reasonable doubt " and must be unanimous.

    If the police department arrests Z, Z will be a very wealthy man after suing sanford police department, and NBC for doctoring the tapes
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    @#6

    that would be suicide for the police department, in my opinion.

    If a special prosecutor has looked at the evidence ( or lack there of ) and doesn't feel a grand jury will return a true bill, what chance will a prosecutor have in criminal court where the burden of proof is " beyond a reasonable doubt " and must be unanimous.

    If the police department arrests Z, Z will be a very wealthy man after suing sanford police department, and NBC for doctoring the tapes
     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:20 PM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by J_Galt:

    @#6

    that would be suicide for the police department, in my opinion.

    If a special prosecutor has looked at the evidence ( or lack there of ) and doesn't feel a grand jury will return a true bill, what chance will a prosecutor have in criminal court where the burden of proof is " beyond a reasonable doubt " and must be unanimous.

    If the police department arrests Z, Z will be a very wealthy man after suing sanford police department, and NBC for doctoring the tapes


    you have to understand how it works, particularly with this prosecutor.  she doesn't give a shit about a grand jury.  she wants to make her own decision.  besides, if she is going to charge second degree murder or manslaughter, she doesn't need a grand jury and grand juries are almost never used for those charges. 

    she also couldn't give a shit about the sanford police department.

    now, i'm not saying she will or won't charge him.  only she knows that.  however, and i'm sure the media will fuck it up and distort this in every possible way, but don't assume from this story that he won't be charged.  if anything, it's more likely he will be charged, ujust with second degree murder or manslauughter. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Galt:

    @#6

    that would be suicide for the police department, in my opinion.

    If a special prosecutor has looked at the evidence ( or lack there of ) and doesn't feel a grand jury will return a true bill, what chance will a prosecutor have in criminal court where the burden of proof is " beyond a reasonable doubt " and must be unanimous.

    If the police department arrests Z, Z will be a very wealthy man after suing sanford police department, and NBC for doctoring the tapes


    you have to understand how it works, particularly with this prosecutor.  she doesn't give a shit about a grand jury.  she wants to make her own decision.  besides, if she is going to charge second degree murder or manslaughter, she doesn't need a grand jury and grand juries are almost never used for those charges. 

    she also couldn't give a shit about the sanford police department.

    now, i'm not saying she will or won't charge him.  only she knows that.  however, and i'm sure the media will fuck it up and distort this in every possible way, but don't assume from this story that he won't be charged.  if anything, it's more likely he will be charged, ujust with second degree murder or manslauughter. 
     
    J_Galt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:22 PM ET #12

    #10 poorly constructed

    suing the sanford police department for false arrest

    suing nbc for doctoring the tapes
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    #10 poorly constructed

    suing the sanford police department for false arrest

    suing nbc for doctoring the tapes
     
    J_Galt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:26 PM ET #13

    @#11

    I respectfully disagree

    at this point ( if the leaked evidence is accurate ) the only reason he would be charged is purely CYA , pass the buck.
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    @#11

    I respectfully disagree

    at this point ( if the leaked evidence is accurate ) the only reason he would be charged is purely CYA , pass the buck.
     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:29 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by J_Galt:

    @#11

    I respectfully disagree

    at this point ( if the leaked evidence is accurate ) the only reason he would be charged is purely CYA , pass the buck.


    what do you disagree with?
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Galt:

    @#11

    I respectfully disagree

    at this point ( if the leaked evidence is accurate ) the only reason he would be charged is purely CYA , pass the buck.


    what do you disagree with?
     
    bowlslit
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:29 PM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:

    No. I believe he is innocent due to witness statements and no evidence to contradict his account of the fatefull night.

    Let me also add that another reason I believe he is innocent because moneysrh thinks he is guilty.

    I wish that were admissable for Zimmermans attorneys because that would surely sway a jury to aquit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:

    No. I believe he is innocent due to witness statements and no evidence to contradict his account of the fatefull night.

    Let me also add that another reason I believe he is innocent because moneysrh thinks he is guilty.

    I wish that were admissable for Zimmermans attorneys because that would surely sway a jury to aquit.

     
    captjohn67
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 3:29 PM ET #16

    i don't think he will be charged either

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    i don't think he will be charged either

     
    djbrow
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 6:56 PM ET #17

    Post 11 pretty much nails it.

    This case wasn't going to GJ if for no other reason that a GJ is going to deal with the same racial divisions that seem to permeate  this case.

    Some states require an indictment by GJ only. Other states (like FL) do not.

    It does not mean anything either way. The reason I actually don't think he will be charged at this point, is there does not appear to be any other evidence that will become available that moves this case either way.

    Its too bad that witnesses, phone records, ballistics, and statements were not sought on the evening this occurred because the truth in either direction may never be known as a result. Nothing taints evidence like time.

    He also would have no lawsuit against the Sanford Police Department for false imprisonment, unless he can prove that they know of his absolute innocence and acted outside of the scope of their duties. That is a difficult standard to reach.

     

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    Post 11 pretty much nails it.

    This case wasn't going to GJ if for no other reason that a GJ is going to deal with the same racial divisions that seem to permeate  this case.

    Some states require an indictment by GJ only. Other states (like FL) do not.

    It does not mean anything either way. The reason I actually don't think he will be charged at this point, is there does not appear to be any other evidence that will become available that moves this case either way.

    Its too bad that witnesses, phone records, ballistics, and statements were not sought on the evening this occurred because the truth in either direction may never be known as a result. Nothing taints evidence like time.

    He also would have no lawsuit against the Sanford Police Department for false imprisonment, unless he can prove that they know of his absolute innocence and acted outside of the scope of their duties. That is a difficult standard to reach.

     

     
    J_Galt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 7:29 PM ET #18

    If the police don't arrest for 2 months...
    a special prosecutor doesn't indite.....
    He gets arrested and either:
    is acquitted.....
    or prosecutor drops charges....

    I would think a civil jury would happily find a police department guilty of false arrest.
    you brought up the point about the racial divisions that seem to permiate this case......
    That same pool that you feel could not sit fairly on a grand jury...
    would be the jury pool in a civil suit for false arrest
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    If the police don't arrest for 2 months...
    a special prosecutor doesn't indite.....
    He gets arrested and either:
    is acquitted.....
    or prosecutor drops charges....

    I would think a civil jury would happily find a police department guilty of false arrest.
    you brought up the point about the racial divisions that seem to permiate this case......
    That same pool that you feel could not sit fairly on a grand jury...
    would be the jury pool in a civil suit for false arrest
     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 7:36 PM ET #19

    jgalt, if the special prosecutor doesn't indict, he isn't getting arrested. 

    trust me, unless zimmerman can prove the police planted evidence, which he can't, there will be no successful civil case. 

    remember, this kind of case is very common minus the ridiculous media attention.  there are thousnads of cases like this every year.  even if he was arrested and the jury acquitted him in 10 seconds, he has no civil case.  if everyone who got fucked by the police and ultimately was vindicated (not saying zimmerman is getting screwed) and was then allowed to sue the government, our government would be broke (or more broke) years ago.  the government makes the laws.  they don't make it real easy for you to sue them for their alleged mistakes.
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    jgalt, if the special prosecutor doesn't indict, he isn't getting arrested. 

    trust me, unless zimmerman can prove the police planted evidence, which he can't, there will be no successful civil case. 

    remember, this kind of case is very common minus the ridiculous media attention.  there are thousnads of cases like this every year.  even if he was arrested and the jury acquitted him in 10 seconds, he has no civil case.  if everyone who got fucked by the police and ultimately was vindicated (not saying zimmerman is getting screwed) and was then allowed to sue the government, our government would be broke (or more broke) years ago.  the government makes the laws.  they don't make it real easy for you to sue them for their alleged mistakes.
     
    J_Galt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 7:43 PM ET #20

    that is what I was saying in post 10

    If the special prosecutor does not bring charges, and the PD arrests anyway....

    Z hit tge lottery.


    obviously if the special prosecutor does bring charges, it is the responsibility of the police department to bring him in
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    that is what I was saying in post 10

    If the special prosecutor does not bring charges, and the PD arrests anyway....

    Z hit tge lottery.


    obviously if the special prosecutor does bring charges, it is the responsibility of the police department to bring him in
     
    djbrow
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 7:43 PM ET #21

    Club is right. The standard is so ridiculously low. In actuality, for a civil action, the standard isn't even probable cause but reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed.

    One could even argue that such a standard has already been met, depending upon the view of the evidence.

    Zimmerman's case wouldn't get beyond summary judgment.

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    Club is right. The standard is so ridiculously low. In actuality, for a civil action, the standard isn't even probable cause but reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed.

    One could even argue that such a standard has already been met, depending upon the view of the evidence.

    Zimmerman's case wouldn't get beyond summary judgment.

     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 7:49 PM ET #22

    Quote Originally Posted by J_Galt:

    that is what I was saying in post 10

    If the special prosecutor does not bring charges, and the PD arrests anyway....

    Z hit tge lottery.


    obviously if the special prosecutor does bring charges, it is the responsibility of the police department to bring him in


    that pretty much can't happen.  he isn't getting arrested without the special prosecutor bringing charges. the police are not doing anything on their own at this point.  it's all up to the special prosecutor from here. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Galt:

    that is what I was saying in post 10

    If the special prosecutor does not bring charges, and the PD arrests anyway....

    Z hit tge lottery.


    obviously if the special prosecutor does bring charges, it is the responsibility of the police department to bring him in


    that pretty much can't happen.  he isn't getting arrested without the special prosecutor bringing charges. the police are not doing anything on their own at this point.  it's all up to the special prosecutor from here. 
     
    djbrow
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 8:00 PM ET #23

    Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



    that pretty much can't happen.  he isn't getting arrested without the special prosecutor bringing charges. the police are not doing anything on their own at this point.  it's all up to the special prosecutor from here. 

    Yep. No one is going out on their own right now.

    I know I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of Angela Corey right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



    that pretty much can't happen.  he isn't getting arrested without the special prosecutor bringing charges. the police are not doing anything on their own at this point.  it's all up to the special prosecutor from here. 

    Yep. No one is going out on their own right now.

    I know I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of Angela Corey right now.

     
    bowlslit
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 8:19 PM ET #24

    Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

    Yep. No one is going out on their own right now.

    I know I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of Angela Corey right now.

    No doubt.

    Not if, but WHEN Angela announces that there will be no charges she will join George in hiding. Seems to be a very good spot at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

    Yep. No one is going out on their own right now.

    I know I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of Angela Corey right now.

    No doubt.

    Not if, but WHEN Angela announces that there will be no charges she will join George in hiding. Seems to be a very good spot at this point.

     
     
    depeche2
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    Posted: Apr. 9, 2012 - 10:27 PM ET #25

    I think this guarantees he will be charged.  If the prosecutor wasn't sure if she could charge she'd go to grand jury to see if they agreed.  This signals to me that she thinks a GJ is unnecessary because she has what she needs.  But it won't be first-degree.  It'll be a lesser charge.  I say charges are filed by the end of the week.
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    I think this guarantees he will be charged.  If the prosecutor wasn't sure if she could charge she'd go to grand jury to see if they agreed.  This signals to me that she thinks a GJ is unnecessary because she has what she needs.  But it won't be first-degree.  It'll be a lesser charge.  I say charges are filed by the end of the week.
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