Lies, Inaccuracies & Stupidity

@Midnight1

 How is this stupid? You think men and women signing up to defend their country should have been terminated for refusing an experimental vaccination, which we aren't even sure if it was effective or not. We parade around like the vaccine saved the world. There's no data to back this up. It is more likely that herd immunity is whst turned covid from pandemic to endemic.

Trump one by 2.3 million votes. It looks like you are taking the margin of victory in certain key swing states and using this to say "230,000 votes determined the winner" while in the same statement criticizing the electoral college, which is the most third thing ever.

@Midnight1

Of course we know the answer.  The oval office is his ego and his benefactor, despite the illegality.

Of the 8,000 or so released only 43 have chosen to rejoin the military 8 months after the mandate was repealed. They have moved on with their lives & have been replaced in most cases. In the military you follow orders & they chose not to do so. Does every other soldier start making individual decisions as to how a policy affects them before following the order? If so, the military is not for them.

Paying them for a job they did not perform is too liberal for me. 

Better than a wrongful termination class action lawsuit. Again, I really don't want to go deeply into the vaccination because it personally affects one of our posters, and we have gotten to a point where the last think I want for him is to think I am being insensitive on the subject, but I don't think the vaccine was necessary, nor particularly effective. Whst we do know is that it was, and is, experimental. We have no idea of what potential longterm effects could be, even now. I think our military had it's priorities a bit foggy as when that decision was handed down. Frankly, we pay our soldiers, what could be called dogshit. I have no problem giving enlisted men and women back pay in a world where we are dumping billions into proxy wars not are literally making Americans less safe while also contributing to our own economic instability.

@Midnight1

 Excellent point as always, my respected veteran forum colleague

One has to wonder why they objected to mandatory vaccine anyway?

Were they afraid it might put them in danger - despite trump's claim it was GREAT?

Should military personnel be permitted to disobey orders BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID????

What if they are supposed to be deployed to a combat zone defending our nation's people or territory????   Would it be OK for our brave military to REFUSE?!?!?!

@fubah2

 Oh, I get it now. I thought this was America. I guess we live in a totalitarian dictatorship where signing up to defend your country also permits them to conduct medical experiments on you. Is that a box you check like being an organ donor? 

What if they just started performing lobotomies on World War 2 veterans suffering from what we now call PTSD? It wouldn't have seemed so unfounded in the 40s and 50s but we would be appalled by this now. This is how this will be viewed decades from now.

@fubah2

@Midnight1

agree 1000%      no room in our military for fuckn cowards 

Midnight1 is right.  Multiple vaccinations are routine job requirements in military.  In many countries, clinical trials prove covid vaccines are safe and effective.  Herd immunity was never achieved by natural infections according to National institute of health.  Vaccination is the fastest and safest way to achieve herd immunity in a large population.  Commonwealth fund study estimates that US vaccination prevented over 3 million covid deaths and over 18 million hospitalizations from 2021 to 2022.

Established vaccines. Not unnecessary, unproven, experimental vaccines. And those estimates are based on fuzzy math. Arbitrary numbers. By late 2021/early 2022, the majority of the deaths and hospitalizations from covid were partially or fully vaccinated.

Imagine calling soldiers, some of which have multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, cowards. You guys are becoming laughable.

Stu is right.  Established vaccines.  Not unnecessary, unproven, experimental vaccines.  

@StumpTownStu

 Imagine calling soldiers, some of which have multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, cowards. You guys are becoming laughable.

Been laughable in this cesspool for way to long..... 

Imagine calling those GWOT soldiers "cowards" by fake ass people who "claim" they served.... 

Mid is someone I consider an actual friend. Fubah and Kells are two people with whom I share a very contentious history, a history we left in the past and have become cordial, friendly. I can't be a party to calling anyone fake, or speaking about claims. We are a small community here, and I take most members at their word.

All i'm saying is, some of those soldiers saw multiple tours of active combat. Iraq, being an urban warzone, was particularly dangerous. Among those who refused, you had SEALs, Rangers, Green Berets, Deltas, etc. Calling those guys cowards for refusing to be experimented on is crazy.

@StumpTownStu

 I never said a word about Mid.... 

If one of those other usernames, who claim to have served in the reserves back in the post 'Nam War days, wants to call out Afghan and Iraq War (GWOT) FELLOW vets for being "cowards" because they did not want to take an experimental vaccine, then one must question their very service.  

You talk about "small community".  We are merely words typed on a screen on an internet social platform.  A far cry from the Veterans community, a Community of people I know well and none of the people I know would call another VET a "coward" for much of any reason, especially one for not taking the experimental vaccine.  

So, they are either full of complete shiit.  Or they just don't give a fk and are playing their regular game in the cesspool of gaslighting the hell out of anyone unfortunate enough to read their BS.  Could be both.... 

@StumpTownStu

 They say they are cowards because they are keyboard warriors. They'd never actually say it to their face because they would then be the cowards. It's just easier to skip over their posts because most of what they type is just garbage. 

It's cowardly to take the vax without questioning it. 

Selective data makes a misleading comparison.  Missing context is that the vaccinated population is far larger and older than the unvaccinated.  Adjusted for group size and age to make a fair comparison, there is higher proportion of deaths and hospitalizations among the unvaccinated. 

I think you should consider the implications of that statement as it relates to your own argument. Your numbers are skewed, and in some cases, completely arbitrary. The efficacy of the covid vaccine is debatable at best. Is was reversed engineered from an early strain that was by and large absent at the point of said vaccines release. So sure, it probably provided some level of immunity to any generic spiked shaped pathogen, it's effects on the current dominant strains upon it's release could've very well have been negligible. Corona viruses have always been around us. They have been responsible for 25%-35% of common colds for quite some time. Meaning that the average person's body already had the framework for producing antibodies specifically to target the spiked shape of coronavirus strains in the SARS-CoV2 family.

It is highly unlikely that the vaccine was some miracle that ended covid 19. That vaccine hasn't been proven to be particularly effective against Delta and Omicron, and they're respective sub-variants. And the vaccine didn't halt hospitalizations and deaths. What happened is Delta variants were less severe than Alphas. Omicron variants are less severe than either. We opened the country back up, and people developed herd immunity. It's what many experts called for from the beginning but were silenced. It's how we defeated the Spanish Flu.

Cowards shouldn't be in the US military.

The CONVICTED FELON & disgusting SEX-OFFENDER - a known draft-dodger - has now not only enabled cowardice in our military, but the asshole-in-Chief has actually REWARDED it!

@thirdperson

 I'm really trying to stay off of this subject as to not offend any of my brothers who find the topic sensitive. I eill just say this. At the point of it's release, the covid vaccine was more akin to a yearly flu vaccine as opposed to the targeted, strain specific vaccine it was intended to be. Flu vaccine manufactures produce yearly versions based on estimates. They, like all of us, know that every year we're going to see some variant of the flu. So based on available data, based on mutation models, they make an educated guess on what that new variant will be. It's characteristics, how it will act, etc. If they come up with a vaccine that's 60% effective, hey, that's a win. Sometimes it's 40%. Sometimes it's 70% but just the same, sometimes it's 20%. When they whiff, for certain segments of the population, healthcare workers, the elderly, it's still better than nothing.

That's akin to the impact of the covid 19 vaccine. For those who are elderly, those with comorbidities, heathcare workers, airline workers, etc, it was potentially a life saver. For the average human of moderate health, it probably didn't make much of a difference.

You can interpret data in many ways. There are ways to interpret the data that say the number of vaccinated deaths could be attributed to a higher rate of vaccination amongst the elderly and those with existing conditions, or even the a higher percentage of the general population being vaccinated than not. You could also, using those same numbers, extrapolate that covid killed who it was gonna kill. It killed the elderly. It killed those with pre-existing conditions. It killed those who were susceptible. There were outliers, of course. There's no exact science to how these things affect a given person. There were plenty of generally healthy people who died from covid but I would also say to that, there are people who are, for all intents and purposes, healthy yet who sometimes harbor unknown conditions and/or genetic markers that make said seemingly healthy person potentially susceptible. This is what I know to be  unequivocally factual. There is no available data that proves the covid 19 vaccine to be successful. When you throw around numbers, estimates, on the lives it potentially saved, those numbers are pure conjecture. And frankly, covid didn't go away. It just became endemic. I caught a cold last week that was probably covid. I didn't even test, even though I have boxes if tests in my linen closet. There's probably 100 tests in there, though some are expired. It's unnecessary. I travel a lot. People are always sick at airports and on planes. I caught a cold. Was it covid? Possibly. Probably. It doesn't make a difference one way or another than a common cold caused by rhinovirus. A virus doesn't typically reach that point, becoming endemic through vaccination. It comes from herd immunity because it is not through just human immunity but also the virus itself getting the opportunity to spread and mutate into less deadly variants. Deadly variants of respiratory viruses are rare. Viruses don't want to kill their hosts. They want their hosts to help them spread and dead hosts don't socialize. Left to their own devices, deadly strains of respiratory viruses always fade in favor of less severe yet highly transmissible strains, such as Omicron. I mean, can one even categorize Omicron as SARS-CoV2? It doesn't cause SARS.

I'm finding it hard to take you seriously.

Congrats to all those military that stood their ground and didn't take the experimental vax. Your bravery is now rewarded in what should have never been taken away in the first place. Cowards blindly follow. Bravo to those that lead.  

The bolded statement is correct. The vaccinated had a better percentage of survivabilty yet many, many died.

As far as being far older-----the Minnesota data I often recite started out 17 and older, when Delta was killing the vaxed they lowered the age to 12 to be incuded in the data and then 5 year olds and up when Omicron did it's thing. So the youngsters vaccinated helped the overall final numbers for the vaxed as young folks rarely died, vaxed or not.

IMO, calling the COVID shot a "vaccine" is misleading. A flu shot more like it. How many other vaccines have recipients getting the targeted virus three times like Biden did? 

@fubah2

i hate cowards like those vets who were afraid to get vaxxed   especially after president trump  the said it was ok over and over

cowards   r   what cowards do

there is no place in our ranks for cowards like those tools

You nailed it.