How to go to War for Dummies Part I

Joe,Kent said Iran was not remotely ready to shoot a nuclear device on anyone in the Middle East lot alone America! So he quit ! 

This 1000%. The GOP has wrapped itself in corporate welfare for decades. Just look at the history of the Farm Bill - welfare for farmers in red states, who grow crops at a loss and profit solely off the government's dime. 

Another example is Arizona Diamondbacks owner Ken Kendrick demanding that taxpayers foot the bill for half the stadium that he profits from. The city and county should have never given him all that taxpayer dough, they should have made him pursue the Kroenke model. 

Then there's the more recent examples of the Trump administration's penchant for egregiously-overpriced no-bid contracts for friends and family. Just more examples of self-professed MAGAs greedily sucking off the government's teat, these fake conservatives sure do have a penchant for taxpayer cash. 

Republicans and magas are the biggest hypocrites.  Republicans have been fooling the people for years making them believe they are good at managing money, when the truth is they are only good at stealing the money.  Republicans have said it so many times, people actually believe their non sense.  The documented facts dont lie, our economy has worked way better under democrat Presidents then republican ones.  People can go fact check this, but magas wont like what they see.

Farmers = socialism  and that is a fact.

corporate welfare dwarfs all our social welfare every single year. Problem people cry about social welfare is because they actually see these people in life, where as the corporate welfare rich folks, they arent bumping into them at the yacht store, so they dont realize that yacht was bought with their tax dollars. All these see is a person on food stamps buying a steak in the grocery store and they flip out.

The Treasury dept is the peoples bank, don the con went into our bank and basically helped himself to 1.776 billion of our dollars. It is so simpler then that. If he can just walk in and grab some cash, then we should all be allowed to do it also.

Saw this today...

While the administration has been busy setting up slush funds, a congressional report has quietly revealed just how costly the war with Iran has become.

Operation Epic Fury, launched after Trump ordered strikes on Iran on February 28th, has now resulted in the loss or damage of more than 40 U.S. military aircraft. The report, dated May 13th, lists the full breakdown: four F-15E Strike Eagle fighter jets, one F-35A Lightning II stealth fighter, one A-10 Thunderbolt II, seven KC-135 Stratotanker refueling aircraft, one E-3 Sentry surveillance plane, two MC-130J aircraft, one HH-60W rescue helicopter, 24 MQ-9 Reaper drones, and one MQ-4C Triton drone.

The F-35A alone is valued at around $110 million. Three of the F-15s were shot down by friendly fire over Kuwait on March 2nd. A fourth was downed during combat operations inside Iran on April 5th. Seven KC-135 tankers crashed over friendly airspace, with one going down in Iraq and killing all six crew members aboard. The cost just to replace those tankers could run close to $1.8 billion, based on Air Force budget estimates.

The Pentagon has now revised its total repair and replacement estimate upward from $25 billion to $29 billion which really means 5x that amount. Defense contractors stand to make 29 billion replacing what we just lost.

Gotta wonder how Iran destroyed so much because they were obliterated, right? In the past "friendly fire" deaths were rarely discussed & we've experienced too many in a very short time IMO. It doesn't help when an ally, Kuwait shoots down 3 aircraft & 7 of your own tankers crash.

If you hear of boots on the ground, you'll know we're fucked for years to come.  

corporate welfare dwarfs all our social welfare every single year.

I knew you would get your stats where they lump social security as social welfare and its not. Also you need to break down the corporate welfare further then your maga website

Yessir.  This is a known question since well before you MAGA and MAWA folks got into the issue.

Just like with any issue, definitions matter when looking at things like this.

I think CATO's last look at 'corporate welfare' had the number at ~$220B.

Whereas, the latest 'social welfare' is much closer to the ~$2T range.

Even if you exclude Social Security it still is around the ~$1T range.

Certainly some years vary somewhat.  It does matter what you try to include from each side of the question.

But under standard budget definitions, 'social welfare' is much large than 'corporate welfare'.

So, no mainstream economist claims the opposite.

Now the question can be argued that there is too much spent on one or the other currently -- or even spent on both.

So, it comes down to basically two questions: a factual claim about the scale and the value judgement of it.

So, the argument can be had without the rhetoric about the scale.

Glad your correcting that stat, but you are still missing the hidden numbers of the corporate welfare, that costs way more then is printed. You just have to look for it.

Its all out there to see, just have to read the real websites.

No stat is corrected.  It is just a stat with SS and one without SS to show it is still far skewed to social welfare, whether you include it or not.

There are numerous economic forums where this has been discussed for years.

No matter what all you include on the corporate welfare side or even if you do some trickeration and double-counting -- it is the same.

It is all out there to see, for sure.

If you get interested I can link in some of the comparative studies that have been done.

Cambridge University and Cato have done decent work on this topic throughout the years.

But there are others that have looked into it.

I am still not saying that it should be one way or the other.  I am not even saying that either has too much or too little.

I am simply pointing out that this is rhetoric for a reason.

@Midnight1  "cost of Iran war"

Pentagon report excludes cost of $20 billion plus in damage to US bases in the Middle east.  Brown university study estimates Americans spend extra $42 billion on gasoline and diesel.  Average US household spend unexpected $300 more since February 2026.  Since war spending is deferred payment over time, total cost could be over $1 trillion for future generation.

bravo don the con, your dumb ass did this to our country and everybody that still believes trump is a good business, please go get a brain transplant.

Hes never been a good businessman ever and he NEVER WILL be a good businessman ever. Hes been a crook and con artist his whole entire and thats all he will ever be.

Magas just wont ever realize this because "ITS EASIER TO FOOL SOMEBODY THEN TO CONVINCE THEM THAT THEY HAVE BEEN FOOLED"

It's  funny, actually pathetic,  how you liberal loonies only care about Government spending when it comes to our national defense. 

Seriously,  you need to turn in whatever carrying card you had as a Veteran of our country.   You are a despicable human being that cannot  stand up for our country's defense.  What is wrong w you ?? !! 

Lmfaoooooooooooooooooooo anybody that has a different opinion of our resident spelling teacher is wrong. Guess we all have to agree with his opinions.

Funny first he went after KC the other day and now going after a person who served.  Just because those 2 guys had different opinion from our know it all teacher.

Yes of course lets make us attacking Iran out of national security lolllllllllllllllllllllllll. Please we had no frigging reason to attack Iran, trump was just being trump and causing chaos everywhere and to take the heat off the epstein files where don the con is all over them. Lets see genius before the war ships could go thru the Strait of Hormuz without any problems, now they cant.

We got duped into a war we had no business going into and now its costing all of us tax payers(maybe you dont pay taxes and thats why you dont give a crap). Its one thing paying for a war that is needed, its another thing paying for one that isnt needed.

In case you havent been paying attention, trump has found a new toy with the military and hes now getting his rocks off invading other countries, cause he sure as hell aint getting his rocks off from Melania ANYMORE.  The man has gone insane.

Is there anything in this wrold that trump can do, that you would actually say hes wrong?  I guess you are okay with him stealing 2 billion tax payers money, so that he can dish it out to whoever the hell he wants to.

Lastly why dont you go hang out on a maga website where you will be welcomed with open arms. People here arent in any cult, like everyone of you magas are.

@Raiders22

 It’s call civilization! Why do think poor or average folks go fight wars of nonsense that creates a save environment of the filthy rich to weave there web!

There are folk 30% of the country believe this shit

I trust Dozin' Don, I call him "the truthteller."

Mar 3: "We won the war."

Mar 7: "We defeated Iran."

Mar 9: "We must attack Iran."

Mar 9: "The war is ending almost completely, and very beautifully."

March 10: "practically nothing left to target"

Mar 11: “You never like to say too ?early you won. We won. In ?the first hour it was over.”

Mar 12: "We did win, but we haven't won completely yet."

Mar 13: "We won the war."

Mar 14: "Please help us."

Mar 15: "If you don't help us, I will certainly remember it."

Mar 16: "Actually, we don't need any help at all."

Mar 16: "I was just testing to see who's listening to me."

Mar 16: "If NATO doesn't help, they will suffer something very bad."

Mar 17: "We neither need nor want NATO's help."

Mar 17: "I don't need Congressional approval to withdraw from NATO."

Mar 18: "Our allies must cooperate in reopening the Strait of Hormuz."

Mar 19: "US allies need to get a grip - step up and help open the Strait of Hormuz."

Mar 20: "NATO are cowards."

Mar 21: "The Strait of Hormuz must be protected by the countries that use it. We don't use it, we don't need to open it."

Mar 22: "This is the last time. I will give Iran 48 hours. Open the Strait."

Mar 22: "Iran is Dead"

Mar 23: "We had very good and productive talks with Iran."

Mar 24: "We’re making progress."

Mar 25: “They gave us a present and the present arrived today. And it was a very big present worth a tremendous amount of money. I’m not going to tell you what that present is, but it was a very significant prize.”

Mar 26: "Make a deal, or we’ll just keep blowing them away."

Mar 27: "We don’t have to be there for NATO."

Mar 28: No major quote

Mar 29: Claimed talks were progressing

Mar 30: "Open the Strait of Hormuz immediately, or face devastating consequences."

Mar 31: Claimed a deal was "very close" and that Iran would "do the right thing."

Shall I go on?…….The Jig is up! The middle independent don’t believe in Orange or MAGA! They would be  better off with the Black woman that cackles when she laughs and no Tariff's, lower prices , less debt , and Allies that trust us with the lives of there soldiers !
Midtearms will be interesting! 

@joe pockets

  It’s call civilization! Why do think poor or average folks go fight wars of nonsense that creates a save environment of the filthy rich to weave there web!

I am not exactly sure what you are addressing me about with this?

What did I say that you are making this statement about?

If you want I can break that statement down somewhat:

Yes, it is true that throughout history the 'elites' -- political and economic elites -- have benefited from wars.

But that is the case with anything that folks take 'opportunity and advantage' of.  The 'elite' just are positioned more to take advantage of anything.

The 'elite' are being enormously benefited by the AI boon, for example.  The ordinary folks will benefit from it as well, but not nearly as mush as those that are positioned for it.

The same with war.  The 'elite' may benefit from it more, but all folks will benefit in the long run is the general rationalization.

Governments and 'leaders', etc., have throughout history, used nationalism, propaganda, fear, etc. to gain national support for war and various conflicts.

However, wars are not always 'nonsense' and are not always 'fought to protect the elite or wealthy folks'.

Some are fought because of invasions, genocide, slavery, terrorism, independence, civil rights, and many other legitimate causes.

So, your statement is mixing a broad conclusion with a real historical pattern.

You can separate out your own country or one particular war and make an isolated case for that statement.  But to make it a general statement for all wars and all countries and all causes is just too overly broad.

But to say the idea that wars are only “the poor fighting for the rich” is also overly broad.  Because in a lot of countries military service is mandatory.  Even in the USA a lot of 'elites' have come through the military ranks and also have children that serve.

I also get that the 'rhetoric' that you quoted can be taken as platitudes, of a sort.  But with any war or conflict you have to have some sort of 'positive' type of message to send back to the folks.  This can be seen as propaganda, for sure.  But it has to be done at times to instill support and to try to demonstrate that the end is coming with the hoped for goal(s).  Obviously, opponents can use it for fodder, i.e. "mission accomplished', etc.

I get your point and it sounds like frustration but I am not sure exactly why you addressed me, in particular, about it.

Deal or no deal, Trump's Iran war is already a disaster.  None of pre-war goals have been achieved but costs continue to increase.  Economist Wolfers warns war could potentially cost billions to trillions of dollars.

Iran certainly thinks it is a disaster. 

For sure, their capabilities have been damaged which has improved the USA's strategic leverage.

So, many will argue that the longterm benefits will outweigh the costs.

What made you come to that conclusion - you had a nuclear deal with them before and the strait was opened - so literally nothing has changed in the best case scenario from America’s PoV - it is more likely that China is laughing their ass off - that your military was beaten by geographical logistics and a few naval mines and drones !  I think they held you at higher regards before the war than that

I have always considered it a 50/50 when your military fought goat farmers - that seems like the most even match up on paper that anyone could ever draft up - but for some bizzare reason you are almost always aced  ! I still believe it will turn around at some point !! Esp. Now when you start investing 1,5 trillion in your military ! 

Council on foreign relations and Foreign affairs experts overwhelmingly agree that costs of Iran war exceed benefits.  This is an ill advised war of choice poorly planned with no exit strategy.  Due to worst conditions, Trump administration has only bad options now.  Either escalate conflict or make a humiliating deal.

A lot of that that is unsupported, debatable, or simply stately too strongly.

The weakest part is implying the CFR is a united and a single body with one position.  They publish views from many experts with differing opinions.

Some of their experts have certainly argued and been critical about the war’s objectives and outcomes, etc.

However, others have argued that the objectives have already largely been achieved.  Others have said it is too early to judge if the costs exceed its benefits.

For example, the CFR President, Froman, has explicitedly said, “it’s simply too soon to tell” whether the war was worth it.

So, there is no clear consensus at this point, even at the CFR.

It being an ‘ill-advised war of choice’ is simply an opinion and not a factual claim at all.

It being ‘poorly planned’ is also very arguable but certainly unprovable.  Critics may claim the planning was inadequate.  But that is an easy escape mechanism for any opponent of a war.  Again, many others will say the USA has already met many of their initial objectives.

Saying ‘with no exit strategy’ is far too absolute.  There are, for sure, ongoing cease-fire negotiations and there still is diplomacy going on as well.

Saying, ‘due to worst conditions, the administration has only bad options now’, is simply just opinion.  It is always a situation where you can say there will have to be difficult tradeoffs.   But to use rhetorical language like ‘only bad options’ is not being an unbiased analyst.  

There are quite a few options that can be better than just plain ‘bad’.

They can negotiate a settlement, maintain some limited military pressure, they can even escalate military operations, they could pursue more containment measures or sanctions.  But to say all of those avenues are ‘bad’ is just a biased opinion.

“Either escalate or make a humiliating deal’ is certainly what is known as a ‘false dilemma’.  It assumes it is only binary.  In reality there are many various possibilities between those two extremes.  There could be a limited cease-fire, an interim agreement of sorts, partial sanctions, a frozen conflict, there could be regional security setups, there could even be longterm containment.

To say a ‘negotiated agreement’ is humiliating is totally subjective.

I just read a fox news broadcast. Same garbage every day. Rinse and repeat.

Really is like magas can not use their own brains to see right in front of them. They have to be told by don the con and the right wing media what to believe.

Any person in our country that truly believes that pete (fox news entertainer)hegseth has the ability to run the greatest military in the world is smoking way to much meth. Of all the people in our country who could run the defense dept, we pick a fox news guy lmfaoooo. This is what our country is coming to.

@Raiders22

 You can put all the lipstick you want on this pig ! It’s still a pig that oinks ! Come November the shit show will become more transparent! I don’t know about you but I sure hope so! ….The books and tales that will be written and told in the coming years will make Watergate & Nixon look like parking violation ! This nightmare of an Administration has obliterated the noting that a true fact must represent objective reality! 
unfortunately with all money of Musk,Begos & hundreds of others involved with the dark money of citizens united controlling ownership of media backing and or bending a knee to them it will be difficult! 

@joe pockets

 I am not sure exactly how you are comparing the war to Watergate.

I agree with you about the media influence.  I wish there was a better way to get more of the independent type of media outlets to the citizenry.  But the mainstream media just has too much 'influence and control'.

Maybe November can shake some things up. The Republicans seem to be shaking their side up a tad.  Maybe the Democrats will as well but it seems doubtful because they really seem to unite around their 'chosen' folks.

But there is always hope.