I'm all for drilling off shore if we keep the oil in the U.S., and not place it on the world market. However, it won't lower the price for atleast 5-10 years. We can't wait 5-10 years to fix this miserableeconomy. It's gonna take something other than off shore drilling to convince people that the republicans deserve another chance at running not ruining this country.
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I'm all for drilling off shore if we keep the oil in the U.S., and not place it on the world market. However, it won't lower the price for atleast 5-10 years. We can't wait 5-10 years to fix this miserableeconomy. It's gonna take something other than off shore drilling to convince people that the republicans deserve another chance at running not ruining this country.
Oil prices are not the only problem with this economy but it is an available scapegoat. Yes, it is higher than we want but the rest of the world has been living with $7-8 oil per gallon for a long time.
Jobs moving overseas is our big problem. Gas cannot be $2 gallon forever. Inflation and world demand plays into it.
The question is can our economy survive on a Global level?
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Oil prices are not the only problem with this economy but it is an available scapegoat. Yes, it is higher than we want but the rest of the world has been living with $7-8 oil per gallon for a long time.
Jobs moving overseas is our big problem. Gas cannot be $2 gallon forever. Inflation and world demand plays into it.
The question is can our economy survive on a Global level?
I'm all for drilling off shore if we keep the oil in the U.S., and not place it on the world market. However, it won't lower the price for atleast 5-10 years. We can't wait 5-10 years to fix this miserableeconomy. It's gonna take something other than off shore drilling to convince people that the republicans deserve another chance at running not ruining this country.
Just the announcement of opening drilling will lower the price of Oil and 2-3yrs is more realistic.
Shrimp....New drilling and exploration means jobs, jobs, and more jobs, Throw in 8-10 refinerys and alot of problems are solved.
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Quote Originally Posted by kaplan:
I'm all for drilling off shore if we keep the oil in the U.S., and not place it on the world market. However, it won't lower the price for atleast 5-10 years. We can't wait 5-10 years to fix this miserableeconomy. It's gonna take something other than off shore drilling to convince people that the republicans deserve another chance at running not ruining this country.
Just the announcement of opening drilling will lower the price of Oil and 2-3yrs is more realistic.
Shrimp....New drilling and exploration means jobs, jobs, and more jobs, Throw in 8-10 refinerys and alot of problems are solved.
I'm all for drilling off shore if we keep the oil in the U.S., and not place it on the world market. However, it won't lower the price for atleast 5-10 years. We can't wait 5-10 years to fix this miserableeconomy. It's gonna take something other than off shore drilling to convince people that the republicans deserve another chance at running not ruining this country.
now use the same logic to defend clinton's ANWR veto from 1995 because that was used then
it is 13 years later and we're still in the same situation but oil and gas is more than double the price
in 2021 the libs will be saying the same thing
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Quote Originally Posted by kaplan:
I'm all for drilling off shore if we keep the oil in the U.S., and not place it on the world market. However, it won't lower the price for atleast 5-10 years. We can't wait 5-10 years to fix this miserableeconomy. It's gonna take something other than off shore drilling to convince people that the republicans deserve another chance at running not ruining this country.
now use the same logic to defend clinton's ANWR veto from 1995 because that was used then
it is 13 years later and we're still in the same situation but oil and gas is more than double the price
Lower gas prices are an instant fix for most of our economic Woes
Instead of crying about oil prices like a bunch of little old ladies, how about we FIX THE CURRENCY & BANKING SYSTEM first and then move on to major industry next.
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Lower gas prices are an instant fix for most of our economic Woes
Instead of crying about oil prices like a bunch of little old ladies, how about we FIX THE CURRENCY & BANKING SYSTEM first and then move on to major industry next.
Lower gas prices are an instant fix for most of our economic Woes
Instead of crying about oil prices like a bunch of little old ladies,
Tell that to all the covers members and see what they say, Dem or Rep. Gas prices are a big part of most family budgets. and its affecting food prices and utilities.
Gas prices are the root of it all.
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Quote Originally Posted by FriedShrimp:
Lower gas prices are an instant fix for most of our economic Woes
Instead of crying about oil prices like a bunch of little old ladies,
Tell that to all the covers members and see what they say, Dem or Rep. Gas prices are a big part of most family budgets. and its affecting food prices and utilities.
Our currency debacle was created over a 5-7 year span of time, the FED stopped reporting M3 and started printing, much like a case of severe dehydration you have to SLOWLY hydrate.
I imagine the RE-flation of the currency should take 5-7 years without severely hurting the economy.
If you quickly stop printing and stop the supply of the dollar then you will destroy our exports thus our GDP and the bond and stock markets, foreign owners of our debt and stocks would start selling like crazy.
The solution will take MANY years to reverse, which is why we need someone who is experienced fiscally, which Obama is not.
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Shrimp,
Our currency debacle was created over a 5-7 year span of time, the FED stopped reporting M3 and started printing, much like a case of severe dehydration you have to SLOWLY hydrate.
I imagine the RE-flation of the currency should take 5-7 years without severely hurting the economy.
If you quickly stop printing and stop the supply of the dollar then you will destroy our exports thus our GDP and the bond and stock markets, foreign owners of our debt and stocks would start selling like crazy.
The solution will take MANY years to reverse, which is why we need someone who is experienced fiscally, which Obama is not.
Not true at all, gas prices suck but the real problems are the job losses going overseas, an Inept Foreign Policy, Economic Globalization, and excessive Government Spending.
Gas prices were $2 gallon 30 years ago. Inflation alone explains a lot of it.
As a percentage, Tomatoes have increased more in prices. So have homes and autos, and everything else. Why the Republicans just zero in on gas is just myopic or it's propaganda.
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Gas prices are the root of it all
Not true at all, gas prices suck but the real problems are the job losses going overseas, an Inept Foreign Policy, Economic Globalization, and excessive Government Spending.
Gas prices were $2 gallon 30 years ago. Inflation alone explains a lot of it.
As a percentage, Tomatoes have increased more in prices. So have homes and autos, and everything else. Why the Republicans just zero in on gas is just myopic or it's propaganda.
Our currency debacle was created over a 5-7 year span of time, the FED stopped reporting M3 and started printing, much like a case of severe dehydration you have to SLOWLY hydrate.
I imagine the RE-flation of the currency should take 5-7 years without severely hurting the economy.
If you quickly stop printing and stop the supply of the dollar then you will destroy our exports thus our GDP and the bond and stock markets, foreign owners of our debt and stocks would start selling like crazy.
The solution will take MANY years to reverse, which is why we need someone who is experienced fiscally, which Obama is not.
I like your "Hydration" analogy. Your FED explanation is probabably right on but as far as Obama not experienced fiscally, cannot agree. He is backed by the Democratic Party which without being offensive, are just smarter.
The Republicans have continued to make bad decision, after bad decision, after bad decision. All they can do is provide a strong military and lately, I'm not even sure they can do that right. This war should not be lasting 5-6 years. This "surge" should have been surging 5 years ago.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Shrimp,
Our currency debacle was created over a 5-7 year span of time, the FED stopped reporting M3 and started printing, much like a case of severe dehydration you have to SLOWLY hydrate.
I imagine the RE-flation of the currency should take 5-7 years without severely hurting the economy.
If you quickly stop printing and stop the supply of the dollar then you will destroy our exports thus our GDP and the bond and stock markets, foreign owners of our debt and stocks would start selling like crazy.
The solution will take MANY years to reverse, which is why we need someone who is experienced fiscally, which Obama is not.
I like your "Hydration" analogy. Your FED explanation is probabably right on but as far as Obama not experienced fiscally, cannot agree. He is backed by the Democratic Party which without being offensive, are just smarter.
The Republicans have continued to make bad decision, after bad decision, after bad decision. All they can do is provide a strong military and lately, I'm not even sure they can do that right. This war should not be lasting 5-6 years. This "surge" should have been surging 5 years ago.
If you quickly stop printing and stop the supply of the dollar then you will destroy our exports thus our GDP and the bond and stock markets, foreign owners of our debt and stocks would start selling like crazy.
I thought this was a "free market"..... if foreign owners want to sell, shouldn't they be entitled to make their own free market investment decisions? In the past, foreigners have owned American stocks because the US dollar was "safer" than other currencies.
As far as other American assets like real estate. Lot of that is based on the currency discount like the Japanese binge a while back. Right now, the Europeans are buying real estate.
Hurt exports? ..... don't even get me started on this. If our exports cannot compete with this devalued currency, they have no chance in the future.
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If you quickly stop printing and stop the supply of the dollar then you will destroy our exports thus our GDP and the bond and stock markets, foreign owners of our debt and stocks would start selling like crazy.
I thought this was a "free market"..... if foreign owners want to sell, shouldn't they be entitled to make their own free market investment decisions? In the past, foreigners have owned American stocks because the US dollar was "safer" than other currencies.
As far as other American assets like real estate. Lot of that is based on the currency discount like the Japanese binge a while back. Right now, the Europeans are buying real estate.
Hurt exports? ..... don't even get me started on this. If our exports cannot compete with this devalued currency, they have no chance in the future.
As soon as the oil prices started to skyrocket, I felt that Bush should have said we need to drill everywhere, we need to conserve, etc. He waited about 6 weeks to do this, but oil has dropped by about 25% since then. It was the perception. Now maybe he needed to be delicate with the situation because of the big oil Cos in the US, I don't know. But if Congress opens up offshore drilling then oil will drop sharply, just on the basis that speculators will go away, and asshole countries supplying us will realize that it won't be as much of a buffet for them in the future. Just the fact that Dim leaders won't address the situation makes you wonder how many of them profited from the speculation, and will continue to profit if the oil prices remain high. Oherwise it appears they don't care at all about the Average American family.
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As soon as the oil prices started to skyrocket, I felt that Bush should have said we need to drill everywhere, we need to conserve, etc. He waited about 6 weeks to do this, but oil has dropped by about 25% since then. It was the perception. Now maybe he needed to be delicate with the situation because of the big oil Cos in the US, I don't know. But if Congress opens up offshore drilling then oil will drop sharply, just on the basis that speculators will go away, and asshole countries supplying us will realize that it won't be as much of a buffet for them in the future. Just the fact that Dim leaders won't address the situation makes you wonder how many of them profited from the speculation, and will continue to profit if the oil prices remain high. Oherwise it appears they don't care at all about the Average American family.
Foreign purchases are what kept Bush in office. Having the FED devalue the currency hid the real effect of the Iraq war, it propped up the housing market, the economy and the stock and bond markets. In my view the cyclical nature of the economy would have turned soft in 2003 or so, just like it did for PAPA Bush and he would not have been re-elected, nor would he have been able to finance the Iraq war. So the FED doing what it did benefitted the repubs quite a bit.
Cheapening our currency made our assets a better investment, and it DISRUPTED a free market, so no it is not a free market when the FED hides the actions it is making, it effects every aspect of our economy and market place. It in effect turned a free market into a controlled market.
So since this was done without any knowledge and outside a FREE market, we need to un-do the artificial effects slowly, and foreign owners of our debt and assets werent buying for safety, they were buying for rate of return alone.
Factor in the currency difference from when Bush entered office and that 4.5% yield on our debt turns into more of a 6-7-8% yield depending on the currency the owner trades with.
The issue is we need to unwind slowly or the effects on the innocent consumer will be disasterous.
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Shrimp,
Think a little differently.
Foreign purchases are what kept Bush in office. Having the FED devalue the currency hid the real effect of the Iraq war, it propped up the housing market, the economy and the stock and bond markets. In my view the cyclical nature of the economy would have turned soft in 2003 or so, just like it did for PAPA Bush and he would not have been re-elected, nor would he have been able to finance the Iraq war. So the FED doing what it did benefitted the repubs quite a bit.
Cheapening our currency made our assets a better investment, and it DISRUPTED a free market, so no it is not a free market when the FED hides the actions it is making, it effects every aspect of our economy and market place. It in effect turned a free market into a controlled market.
So since this was done without any knowledge and outside a FREE market, we need to un-do the artificial effects slowly, and foreign owners of our debt and assets werent buying for safety, they were buying for rate of return alone.
Factor in the currency difference from when Bush entered office and that 4.5% yield on our debt turns into more of a 6-7-8% yield depending on the currency the owner trades with.
The issue is we need to unwind slowly or the effects on the innocent consumer will be disasterous.
Foreign purchases are what kept Bush in office. Having the FED devalue the currency hid the real effect of the Iraq war, it propped up the housing market, the economy and the stock and bond markets. In my view the cyclical nature of the economy would have turned soft in 2003 or so, just like it did for PAPA Bush and he would not have been re-elected, nor would he have been able to finance the Iraq war. So the FED doing what it did benefitted the repubs quite a bit.
Agree with most of what you are saying except the part about exports. Exports are declining because our manufacturing and industrial base is moving offshore. You can tinker with the FED all you want but if business are producing offshore, that is the real problem. Also, "my opinion" on why the economy has been artifically propped up has nothing to do with exports but everything to do with cheap Domestic money being available. Large scale developers build when cheap money is available. I am not talking houses, I am talking skyscrapers.
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Foreign purchases are what kept Bush in office. Having the FED devalue the currency hid the real effect of the Iraq war, it propped up the housing market, the economy and the stock and bond markets. In my view the cyclical nature of the economy would have turned soft in 2003 or so, just like it did for PAPA Bush and he would not have been re-elected, nor would he have been able to finance the Iraq war. So the FED doing what it did benefitted the repubs quite a bit.
Agree with most of what you are saying except the part about exports. Exports are declining because our manufacturing and industrial base is moving offshore. You can tinker with the FED all you want but if business are producing offshore, that is the real problem. Also, "my opinion" on why the economy has been artifically propped up has nothing to do with exports but everything to do with cheap Domestic money being available. Large scale developers build when cheap money is available. I am not talking houses, I am talking skyscrapers.
Cheapening our currency made our assets a better investment, and it DISRUPTED a free market, so no it is not a free market when the FED hides the actions it is making, it effects every aspect of our economy and market place. It in effect turned a free market into a controlled market.
I'll agree. I'll also say that we have a tendency to shoot ourselves in our own feet.
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Cheapening our currency made our assets a better investment, and it DISRUPTED a free market, so no it is not a free market when the FED hides the actions it is making, it effects every aspect of our economy and market place. It in effect turned a free market into a controlled market.
I'll agree. I'll also say that we have a tendency to shoot ourselves in our own feet.
So since this was done without any knowledge and outside a FREE market, we need to un-do the artificial effects slowly, and foreign owners of our debt and assets werent buying for safety, they were buying for rate of return alone.
This is what gets me on a "high" level. Do we want total and pure "free markets" or not? Given the fact, that we are now in a Global economy?
Other countries, who are picking us clean economically, are not total pure "free markets." I am not talking communism, I am talking Government "tinkering" in order to protect our exports and domestic jobs. This "tinkering" is no more Communistic than what the FED tinkering is doing now.
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So since this was done without any knowledge and outside a FREE market, we need to un-do the artificial effects slowly, and foreign owners of our debt and assets werent buying for safety, they were buying for rate of return alone.
This is what gets me on a "high" level. Do we want total and pure "free markets" or not? Given the fact, that we are now in a Global economy?
Other countries, who are picking us clean economically, are not total pure "free markets." I am not talking communism, I am talking Government "tinkering" in order to protect our exports and domestic jobs. This "tinkering" is no more Communistic than what the FED tinkering is doing now.
The issue is we need to unwind slowly or the effects on the innocent consumer will be disasterous.
The innocent consumer is going to be screwed either way for a while. On the one hand, we can slowly "re hydrate" as you say, or we can simply, shake it up hard, take our lumps and then start the rebuilding process. I would personally rather just bite the bullet and get it over with quicker rather than stretching it over a longer time frame. It's going to be painful either way, but we at least need "grow" from the experience and change our methods and ideology for the long haul. I firmly believe that the popular philosophies will not work in the long haul if we want true economic success. There is too much quality competition out there. They have natural resources, they have cheap labor, they have educations, and now they have money.
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The issue is we need to unwind slowly or the effects on the innocent consumer will be disasterous.
The innocent consumer is going to be screwed either way for a while. On the one hand, we can slowly "re hydrate" as you say, or we can simply, shake it up hard, take our lumps and then start the rebuilding process. I would personally rather just bite the bullet and get it over with quicker rather than stretching it over a longer time frame. It's going to be painful either way, but we at least need "grow" from the experience and change our methods and ideology for the long haul. I firmly believe that the popular philosophies will not work in the long haul if we want true economic success. There is too much quality competition out there. They have natural resources, they have cheap labor, they have educations, and now they have money.
The country that squeaked open their tap to supply about 700,000 additional bbls of oil to the world market 5 weeks ago?
You know how much effort it takes for them to close that tap again and remove those 700,000 bbls of oil from the market?
Or what effort it would take for them to close that tap even further and remove whatever amount they damn well please off the world market when prices drop below the level they want?
You think those shieks are that cash strapped to the point they will sell their product at any discount?
Oil in the ground is future money in the bank to them. They can manipulate the market in any fashion they please.
Right now they are slowly chuckling under their breath about all the drum beating going on in the States.....America....a country that can possibly bring a million or two additional bbls of oil onto the market in a 5 to 10 year time frame.
It would take them all of ten minutes to close the tap to remove a similar quantity off the market.
Keep dreaming about the $2 gal gas.
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godfather:
You remember a country called Saudi Arabia?
The country that squeaked open their tap to supply about 700,000 additional bbls of oil to the world market 5 weeks ago?
You know how much effort it takes for them to close that tap again and remove those 700,000 bbls of oil from the market?
Or what effort it would take for them to close that tap even further and remove whatever amount they damn well please off the world market when prices drop below the level they want?
You think those shieks are that cash strapped to the point they will sell their product at any discount?
Oil in the ground is future money in the bank to them. They can manipulate the market in any fashion they please.
Right now they are slowly chuckling under their breath about all the drum beating going on in the States.....America....a country that can possibly bring a million or two additional bbls of oil onto the market in a 5 to 10 year time frame.
It would take them all of ten minutes to close the tap to remove a similar quantity off the market.
People may not admit it but I think a lot of Americans really think we can just "bomb" our way to lower gas prices and take over the Middle East militarily.
Is that really a feasible option?
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People may not admit it but I think a lot of Americans really think we can just "bomb" our way to lower gas prices and take over the Middle East militarily.
Pretty sure Russia and Asia will not let that happen so in the meantime, we get to amuse ourselves with Iraqi "border disputes.".... We can't even police our own borders.
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Pretty sure Russia and Asia will not let that happen so in the meantime, we get to amuse ourselves with Iraqi "border disputes.".... We can't even police our own borders.
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Just the announcement of opening drilling will lower the price of Oil and 2-3yrs is more realistic.
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