Democrats ARE bailing on Obama ..................

DL:

Slim:

There is no doubt he has bumped this 16 x's thread starting last year on 12 /07/2011 pretending to want to discuss a issue and again on 12/11   12/16   12/21   12/23  12/28...1/04/2012  1/06   1/07 1/08  1/10   1/13   1/18/   1/19   1/23   all because he say's you were trying to do a "bail  out "... and to prove you wrong thatone commented on the topic of the thread....

If you really feel there is any other reason, that he would bump a thread for 48 days and not try to have it come to a conclusion by commenting with  <popcorn guy> and one liners  ..you are sadly mistaken ..

canosvp,

Thank you for the benefit of the doubt... and not getting caught up in "sara'shoopla"... I will ignore him moving forward because it has already been said...

So there are a few parts of my theory of things being misplayed...

But one of the key points is how they addressed obama with the birther deal which they then recanted on which is like setting an ultimatum and then not following through with it till the end... no one takes you seriously after that...

If Obama is really the "worst president ever" there would be no need to make theories to try to get him out of office...  these constant and desperate attacks shows fear of him...

To me Obama delivered on the hope but had absolutely no chance of delivering the change that he promised/inferred etc...

So to get special interest democrats to bail would require no effort... just sit back on watch him fail... but because the rhetoric has been so fabricated, hateful and desperate it has the special interest dems and independents turned off...  So these voters would rather get nothing from obama because of the fear that they will lose by voting for a GOP candidate...

and endorsing and seriously considering some crazy candidates...

Canovsp he is stringing you on ...for his own amusement...

canosvp,

Thank you for ignoring "Sara'sHoopla"...  Its like hes kicked into high gear...

I hear what you are saying about the core being fiscal/financial issues, which interestingly is the core of the occupy movement on some level, so Im guressing that you do not try to pidgeon whole that goup of pro-choice, pro-life, Catholics, Protestants, Patriots fans, and Giants fans...

The birther issue is one that is a part of my larger point of mismanaged as it was used by teaparty/GOP figures from trump to gingrich... and this was not an issue that those figures shouted so loud would not get dems and independents to bail on obama...

Instead they appealed to their own base my having the massage the frail/broken egos of a movement that could not believe that Obama was president and needed to vent that emotion...  So credit them in being able to vent the emotion into the politics but the constant hitler/nazi references pleased/placated its own base but turned off the voters that they needed to convert...

So are you disagreeing that using the birthed rally cry was a mistake because it spoke mostly to people that voted for McCain/palin in 2008 and not to the dems and independents that needed to be converted in 2012.

Watch it Canosvp,, he's using code words to try and trick you ....

Canosvp...

I appreciate you continuing to ignoring "sara'shoopla"...

He appears to be desperately trying to do something... not sure of what it is... but he is in a tail Spin

It is obvious that you are holding your own in the discussion and dont need him to bail you out as he always tries to do...

I agree with you on being able to nail obama or any president on his actions.... so this is the hedging metaphor...  If GOP/tea party knew that he would fail because he was so awful then the utilization of the birther and the constant hussein references to create negative Spin would be 100%  unnecessary...

Like I said perhaps it was trying to channel the anger the outrage and anger behind having a half white president.... But then appealing to emotional tantrums and marches on washginton is more of a liberal based mentality then a conservative one...

So I think whether by miscalcuation or an inability to control the emotions the inability to sit back and cash in on what seems like a lock for obama to fail was part of the point in misplaying the situation....

But getting people who voted for mccain/palin in 2008 to vote against obama is a losing cause...  They needed to convert the dems and independents  who voted for obama in 2008 to bail and I think that sticking to the special interest issues that liberals/dems thrive on would make more sense they calling him kenyan/hussein/muslim/hitler...  With that type of fabrication and Spin dems and independents would be turned off with the propaganda...

Not all propaganda is bad... but preaching to the choir was just a poor choice and perhaps why obama will win again...

dp you disagree with me that he was able to do the hope part but no possible way to to the change part for every special interest liberal group that supported him?

No President is ever going to get everything they want, Democrat or Republican. Which is a good thing. Gridlock is good often. One side keeps the other side in check. Some people will say Republicans are standing in the way of the President but they have to remember back when Bush was Pres. and they have to also remember that one day there will be another Republican Pres.

I am a big believer in checks and balances....  so the tea party using the legislative branch to check obama show good american politics and government in action...

So to have to resort to the birther/hussein/hitler strategy makes no sense and is one of my main points...  I think that it was based on more on emotion and talking heads that now seem to dictate the views of the party like Beck who was an opportunist taking advantage of the GOP party when they were at their emotional low....

Trump did a similar thing with his birther/anti-obama talk...  and this did absolutely nothing

So can we agree that this was a pretty fundamental mistake in trying to get the dems and independents that voted for obama in 2008 to bail in 2012?

 as the desperate Hitler/Hussein references only mischaracterized the teaparty/GOP party as racists... and as you said early the tea party is diverse just like the occupy movement and has its share of racists... 

Do you agree?

yes

so why do think they made such a error in strategy?

I am thinking it is because they needed to something with the outrage and just pure objection to obama being president... gore could have won in 2000 and you would not have seen the same level of hatred and resistance...

I also blame beck, palin and other figures for really kicking the GOP party while they were down to milk out their own fame...

Making these people the figures of the GOP/teaparty movement  would surely alienate the dems and independents that voted for obama in 2008 that they would hope would bail...

To me it was such a poor choice of strategy to appeal their own base that didnt need to be appealed to becasue they would come out and vote in 2010 and 2012...

I would like to think that the GOP strategists were smarter then that as my personal views is that historically GOP political strategy has been smarter then the DEMs...

It just doesnt make sense to me why the teapaty/GOP would fumble this opportunity so badly and extremely...

You said earlier in this thread that you were not a DEM so you could not speak their point of view... as a GOP/teaparty, can you speak to why you think they fumbled this opportunity so badly?

I mean you had GOPs in office saying to knock off the birther crap which was the initial identifying calling card of the teaparty/GOp movement...

This question is right up your alley to explain to me as I really dont get it...

I don't think the 'birther" message is a strategy.

If the birther thing was not a strategy, then what was it?  Is it only a strategy if it was successful for the GOP?

I think that Palin, Trump, and others used it as a strategy for personal gain... so if it was not strategic, then why did GOPs put so much stock into it and energy as it would seem s counter productive to getting the dems and independents who voted for obama in 2008...

The birther thing was associated with wacko-nutjobs and the main stream GOPs even confirmed this sentiment later...  so why would tea party hang their hat on something that would contribute to Obama winning in 2012?

how is Palin a homer when you have GOPs and right wingers on this site that go absolutely bananas any time she is brought up?  If she was a homer, you would have people backing her...

Paul = Beck is so far off base I dont even know where to start...

Paul has spent decades in service to his country with a consistent message... I love that he named his son Rand becasue it shows that he walks the walk and not just talks the talk...  He is a man of principles and integrity sticking to them even when they were not popular during the reckless spending GW/Neocon years....

Explain to me what Beck has done for the last couple decades in service to his country?

Fumbling the opportunity is not only about what GOPs did with the birther thing, but my basic point that they misplayed Obama filing to deliver to the dems and independents who voted for him on his special interests...  The fumble was that if he was the worst president ever, just stick back and cash in your bet... thus the hedging metaphor...

I think it lacks continuity to constantly call obama the worst president ever and an obvious one term president as if the 2012 election is a lock but then concede that he will probably win...  being so incongruent then makes other statements about obama even when real seem like the typical hyperbole and fabrication and the source of the GOP voice not trustworthy and with the birther thing characterized at internet conspiracy wacko-nutjobs desperately grasping at straws because they lack any rational argument with substance...

That to me is another big part of the fumble to try to get dems and independents to bail...

Interested to see your reaction the numerous point in this thread

Don’t be so hung up on this birther thing. I’m not.

The candidates aren’t using the birther issue as a strategy.

Palin is a homer in the sense that she is going to back the candidate with the “R” behind his name. She will blindly follow the Republican candidate.

Beck is a libertarian. Beck believes in more of Ron Paul’s positions than any other candidate in the field. He will not blindly follow the Republican candidate.

Check out my breakdown in my thread Republican Strategy to Win 2012. See what you think.

The birther thing is a simply an example of a strategy that resulted in appealing to its own base rather then trying to get dems and independents to bail...

so what exactly in your own words would you say was the strategy to try to get the dems and independents to bail?  or at least avoiding from alienating them and turning them off...

perhaps there was no strategy which was a mistake... or simply preaching to the choir rather then trying to reach across the aisle...




I see where you are coming from with the homer thing... but I think Palin already endorsed newt... todd that is...

Beck however did not endorse Paul for president so I would think he would be better compared as similar to the candidate he endorsed...


Once again I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt
I will take a look at your thread if I get a chance...

so what exactly in your own words would you say was the strategy to try to get the dems and independents to bail?

Attack Obama on his record: Obamacare, Stimulus, TARP, the