if you watch the walking dead, these scrubs are firing handguns and hitting the targets in the heads every time from 20, 30 50+ yards away. that's how it works in rightwingland.
Since nobody on the "right" ever says any such thing, nor are the people who created or produce the Walking Dead "rightwingers" why do you say such things? Especially in light of the fact that every prediction made by the left regarding CCW expansion has been completely & utterly wrong. Why do you think you do that?
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
if you watch the walking dead, these scrubs are firing handguns and hitting the targets in the heads every time from 20, 30 50+ yards away. that's how it works in rightwingland.
Since nobody on the "right" ever says any such thing, nor are the people who created or produce the Walking Dead "rightwingers" why do you say such things? Especially in light of the fact that every prediction made by the left regarding CCW expansion has been completely & utterly wrong. Why do you think you do that?
Stiln I own firearms and have a CCDW. I instruct on firearms handling primarily in small arms and see some agreement and disagreement in what has been said here. As this is such a polarizing issue I'll try to keep as much as my opinion out of this and try to be matter of fact. As far as an a certain amount of CCDW permits being known and discouraging crime, I wouldn't agree with that directly. I would however say that just the general known presence of firearms both possibly readily available in a residence or on a person though a concealed weapon does make a substantial difference. I would also say that nature of the criminal plays a big part of that. For instance a tweeker needing his next fix, may not first think out what waits behind him at a locked door. At the same time, if given the opportunity a mugger will most likely target an off guard female over a male of even average size in the same situation. My point is, a criminal with equal years experience in my state and the city of Chicago is more likely to get the business end of a shotgun or semi auto from me than some "law abiding citizen" in Chicago.
As far as a point you made about CCDW, concerning lack of experience, I am completely in agreement with you. I assist from time to time with conceal carry classes and it amazes me the number of people that may have not even shot a gun before, or only a few times. However, in my experience, alot of times, these people don't actually end up being people that regularly carry. I don't know that I have ever heard of a "bad shoot" from someone that was carrying concealed, that could be attributed to lack of experience....(But not at all saying that hasn't happened.) I do agree it should take more training to be a person that is permitted to carry concealed.
Also something else that was said pertained to the police and collateral damage as well as carrying citizens actually being able to prevent a crime from occurring or escalating. Police or citizen, does not matter. Every person behind a trigger has the obligation and responsibilty to know where each bullet goes. And citizens do prevent. The mall shooter in MN shot himself after seeing himself in the sights of the ex marine who had drawn on him. He did not even fire (exmarine) as he saw targets beyond the gunman and did not want to take the chance of hitting an innocent person.
Finally, I'm not sure where the point of an instructor or CCDW has absolutely anything to do with the second amendment or even why it would have been brought up.
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Stiln I own firearms and have a CCDW. I instruct on firearms handling primarily in small arms and see some agreement and disagreement in what has been said here. As this is such a polarizing issue I'll try to keep as much as my opinion out of this and try to be matter of fact. As far as an a certain amount of CCDW permits being known and discouraging crime, I wouldn't agree with that directly. I would however say that just the general known presence of firearms both possibly readily available in a residence or on a person though a concealed weapon does make a substantial difference. I would also say that nature of the criminal plays a big part of that. For instance a tweeker needing his next fix, may not first think out what waits behind him at a locked door. At the same time, if given the opportunity a mugger will most likely target an off guard female over a male of even average size in the same situation. My point is, a criminal with equal years experience in my state and the city of Chicago is more likely to get the business end of a shotgun or semi auto from me than some "law abiding citizen" in Chicago.
As far as a point you made about CCDW, concerning lack of experience, I am completely in agreement with you. I assist from time to time with conceal carry classes and it amazes me the number of people that may have not even shot a gun before, or only a few times. However, in my experience, alot of times, these people don't actually end up being people that regularly carry. I don't know that I have ever heard of a "bad shoot" from someone that was carrying concealed, that could be attributed to lack of experience....(But not at all saying that hasn't happened.) I do agree it should take more training to be a person that is permitted to carry concealed.
Also something else that was said pertained to the police and collateral damage as well as carrying citizens actually being able to prevent a crime from occurring or escalating. Police or citizen, does not matter. Every person behind a trigger has the obligation and responsibilty to know where each bullet goes. And citizens do prevent. The mall shooter in MN shot himself after seeing himself in the sights of the ex marine who had drawn on him. He did not even fire (exmarine) as he saw targets beyond the gunman and did not want to take the chance of hitting an innocent person.
Finally, I'm not sure where the point of an instructor or CCDW has absolutely anything to do with the second amendment or even why it would have been brought up.
that is the assumption that is made when the nra nuts come out with a report saying there should be guns in every school. and if "highly trained" cops can't handle these situations, i doubt some school employee or renta a cop can. but that's requires some intellectual capacity and some attachment to the real world to understand, something lacking in rightwingbiblethumperland. easier to listen to foxnews and assume it will look like it does on tv when there are guns in all the schools and another situation comes up.
but i don't fault the nra for that ridiculous position. they are merely a shill for the gun manufacturers so it is their job to say the solution is for people to buy more guns.
0
that is the assumption that is made when the nra nuts come out with a report saying there should be guns in every school. and if "highly trained" cops can't handle these situations, i doubt some school employee or renta a cop can. but that's requires some intellectual capacity and some attachment to the real world to understand, something lacking in rightwingbiblethumperland. easier to listen to foxnews and assume it will look like it does on tv when there are guns in all the schools and another situation comes up.
but i don't fault the nra for that ridiculous position. they are merely a shill for the gun manufacturers so it is their job to say the solution is for people to buy more guns.
how many citizens with guns do we think take the hours and hours of training, annually, that is superior to what these police officers take and still routinely darn up these situations?
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how many citizens with guns do we think take the hours and hours of training, annually, that is superior to what these police officers take and still routinely darn up these situations?
that is the assumption that is made when the nra nuts come out with a report saying there should be guns in every school. and if "highly trained" cops can't handle these situations, i doubt some school employee or renta a cop can. but that's requires some intellectual capacity and some attachment to the real world to understand, something lacking in rightwingbiblethumperland. easier to listen to foxnews and assume it will look like it does on tv when there are guns in all the schools and another situation comes up.
but i don't fault the nra for that ridiculous position. they are merely a shill for the gun manufacturers so it is their job to say the solution is for people to buy more guns.
I love that when you're called on your utter nonsense, you respond with more nonsense.
See, 1/3rd of schools in America have armed police or security.
So it isn't just an "NRA nuts" suggesting this idea.
Further, armed teachers have already stopped school shootings. Teachers are school employees.
You need to stop using words like "attachment to the real world to understand" because the entirety of what you're posting here is based on fantasy and false premises.
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
that is the assumption that is made when the nra nuts come out with a report saying there should be guns in every school. and if "highly trained" cops can't handle these situations, i doubt some school employee or renta a cop can. but that's requires some intellectual capacity and some attachment to the real world to understand, something lacking in rightwingbiblethumperland. easier to listen to foxnews and assume it will look like it does on tv when there are guns in all the schools and another situation comes up.
but i don't fault the nra for that ridiculous position. they are merely a shill for the gun manufacturers so it is their job to say the solution is for people to buy more guns.
I love that when you're called on your utter nonsense, you respond with more nonsense.
See, 1/3rd of schools in America have armed police or security.
So it isn't just an "NRA nuts" suggesting this idea.
Further, armed teachers have already stopped school shootings. Teachers are school employees.
You need to stop using words like "attachment to the real world to understand" because the entirety of what you're posting here is based on fantasy and false premises.
The Newtown Board of Education wants more armed police officers in the town's four elementary schools after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary.
Last night, they decided to ask the town to approve the request to include one additional full-time Newtown police at each of the elementary schools in next year's budget.
Members of the board will meet today with state and federal officials about obtaining additional funding for security.
but i don't fault the nra for that ridiculous position
Is not.
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For example, this is reality:
The Newtown Board of Education wants more armed police officers in the town's four elementary schools after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary.
Last night, they decided to ask the town to approve the request to include one additional full-time Newtown police at each of the elementary schools in next year's budget.
Members of the board will meet today with state and federal officials about obtaining additional funding for security.
as i understand it, the nra nuts report calls for an armed guard in every school (i assume padi for with taxpayer money) and any teacher willing to caarry a gun can also do so.
maybe i'm wrong then but i'd be interested to see who else besides the nra nuts have called for the same thing. smith and wesson or rightwingnuts paid for by the nra don't count.
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as i understand it, the nra nuts report calls for an armed guard in every school (i assume padi for with taxpayer money) and any teacher willing to caarry a gun can also do so.
maybe i'm wrong then but i'd be interested to see who else besides the nra nuts have called for the same thing. smith and wesson or rightwingnuts paid for by the nra don't count.
ok, i see one example of one school district in which there was a recent shooting that wants more armed guards in 4 schools but nothing about arming teachers.
ok, back to what i was talking about. the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are also calling for this.
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ok, i see one example of one school district in which there was a recent shooting that wants more armed guards in 4 schools but nothing about arming teachers.
ok, back to what i was talking about. the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are also calling for this.
ok, i see one example of one school district in which there was a recent shooting that wants more armed guards in 4 schools
1/3rd of schools in America already have armed police or security.
ok, but back to what i was talking about. is there anyone where you are who can read it and explain it to you.
the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country
at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can
have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are
also calling for this.
0
Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
ok, i see one example of one school district in which there was a recent shooting that wants more armed guards in 4 schools
1/3rd of schools in America already have armed police or security.
ok, but back to what i was talking about. is there anyone where you are who can read it and explain it to you.
the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country
at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can
have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are
also calling for this.
how many citizens with guns do we think take the hours and hours of training, annually, that is superior to what these police officers take and still routinely darn up these situations?
I am not saying a great number do get that training.
I am just saying that you are really over-blowing the training that the police get.
It is not like they are special forces or something.
They are a revenue generating bureaucrat with a gun.
It would be a great stat to find out how many CCW people are involved in unjustified shootings compared to the Police. I mean, if cops that shot unarmed citizens that were wearing handcuffs in the back of the head ever got prosecuted.
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
how many citizens with guns do we think take the hours and hours of training, annually, that is superior to what these police officers take and still routinely darn up these situations?
I am not saying a great number do get that training.
I am just saying that you are really over-blowing the training that the police get.
It is not like they are special forces or something.
They are a revenue generating bureaucrat with a gun.
It would be a great stat to find out how many CCW people are involved in unjustified shootings compared to the Police. I mean, if cops that shot unarmed citizens that were wearing handcuffs in the back of the head ever got prosecuted.
the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can have one too.
It is comical that you can't grasp that having an armed guard in a school is not just something the NRA is suggesting.
Wow.
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the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can have one too.
It is comical that you can't grasp that having an armed guard in a school is not just something the NRA is suggesting.
ok, but back to what i was talking about. is there anyone where you are who can read it and explain it to you.
the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country
at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can
have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are
also calling for this.
You discredit yourself when you resort to name-calling.
It makes you look childish, and is a non-starter for intelligent debate.
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
ok, but back to what i was talking about. is there anyone where you are who can read it and explain it to you.
the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country
at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can
have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are
also calling for this.
You discredit yourself when you resort to name-calling.
It makes you look childish, and is a non-starter for intelligent debate.
The National Parent Teachers Organization said today it was pleased with many of President Obama’s new proposals to improve school security but that his call for more armed guards at schools “comes as a disappointment.”
Obama spelled out a series of steps to help make schools safer for students, including hiring as many as 1,000 more school resource officers and counselors.
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I'd also note:
The National Parent Teachers Organization said today it was pleased with many of President Obama’s new proposals to improve school security but that his call for more armed guards at schools “comes as a disappointment.”
Obama spelled out a series of steps to help make schools safer for students, including hiring as many as 1,000 more school resource officers and counselors.
sorry rick, but 14daroad is a special case. god created names like nut, biblethumper, etc for a reason and he wants you to use them where appropriate.
one more time for for slower among us. if you can't follow it, then i'll stop.
i'm not talking about individual schools wanting an armed guard for themselves.
here's what i'm talking about in case you missed it.
the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country
at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can
have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are
also calling for this.
0
sorry rick, but 14daroad is a special case. god created names like nut, biblethumper, etc for a reason and he wants you to use them where appropriate.
one more time for for slower among us. if you can't follow it, then i'll stop.
i'm not talking about individual schools wanting an armed guard for themselves.
here's what i'm talking about in case you missed it.
the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country
at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can
have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are
also calling for this.
I guess when a school board votes to have an armed guard in school, because they don't vote to say every school in America should have one, some silly point is being made.
Said point is unclear.
Anyway, Butler, PA puts 4 retired state troopers in school districts.
I guess when a school board votes to have an armed guard in school, because they don't vote to say every school in America should have one, some silly point is being made.
Said point is unclear.
Anyway, Butler, PA puts 4 retired state troopers in school districts.
I am not saying a great number do get that training.
I am just saying that you are really over-blowing the training that the police get.
It is not like they are special forces or something.
They are a revenue generating bureaucrat with a gun.
It would be a great stat to find out how many CCW people are involved in unjustified shootings compared to the Police. I mean, if cops that shot unarmed citizens that were wearing handcuffs in the back of the head ever got prosecuted.
i may be overblowing it but i'm only telling you what they say. when the issue of their training comes up, they go on and on about all this great training they get. whatever they get, i know it is a regular requirement and i'm guessing it's more than what the average gun owner takes.
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Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:
I am not saying a great number do get that training.
I am just saying that you are really over-blowing the training that the police get.
It is not like they are special forces or something.
They are a revenue generating bureaucrat with a gun.
It would be a great stat to find out how many CCW people are involved in unjustified shootings compared to the Police. I mean, if cops that shot unarmed citizens that were wearing handcuffs in the back of the head ever got prosecuted.
i may be overblowing it but i'm only telling you what they say. when the issue of their training comes up, they go on and on about all this great training they get. whatever they get, i know it is a regular requirement and i'm guessing it's more than what the average gun owner takes.
sorry rick, but 14daroad is a special case. god created names like nut, biblethumper, etc for a reason and he wants you to use them where appropriate.
one more time for for slower among us. if you can't follow it, then i'll stop.
i'm not talking about individual schools wanting an armed guard for themselves.
here's what i'm talking about in case you missed it.
the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country
at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can
have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are
also calling for this.
/
The fact that you get called on your silliness and in response have to convince yourself that I'm some sort of "bible thumper" is quite instructive.
I guess when a school board votes to have an armed guard in school, because they don't vote to say every school in America should have one, some silly point is being made.
Oh, and the NRA is funded entirely by gun manufacturers too!!!
And, and, and, the walking dead!!!!
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
sorry rick, but 14daroad is a special case. god created names like nut, biblethumper, etc for a reason and he wants you to use them where appropriate.
one more time for for slower among us. if you can't follow it, then i'll stop.
i'm not talking about individual schools wanting an armed guard for themselves.
here's what i'm talking about in case you missed it.
the nranuts report calls for armed guards in every school in the country
at taxpayer expense and any teacher that wants a gun in any school can
have one too. who besides the nra nuts and the gun manufacturers are
also calling for this.
/
The fact that you get called on your silliness and in response have to convince yourself that I'm some sort of "bible thumper" is quite instructive.
I guess when a school board votes to have an armed guard in school, because they don't vote to say every school in America should have one, some silly point is being made.
Oh, and the NRA is funded entirely by gun manufacturers too!!!
That reminds me of when I made about 30 posts articulating why I was against happy marriage, none of which mentioned religion, and club dirt's continued response was that God tells me to be against it.
I guess when your education level tops out at high school, you do things like that.
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That reminds me of when I made about 30 posts articulating why I was against happy marriage, none of which mentioned religion, and club dirt's continued response was that God tells me to be against it.
I guess when your education level tops out at high school, you do things like that.
Oh, and I guess it doesn't occur to people that when you support an idea like this:
“Although school shootings are very rare, they are unpredictable and they always occur in communities where people say it would never happen here,” said Arab City School District superintendent John Mullins. His district in Alabama hired three additional armed school resource officers recently, placing armed officers in each of the district’s four schools.
“When it comes to the safety and well-being of our children, there is no price too high,” he said. The district allocated $66,000 of its $20 million budget for armed officers because they “seem to be a powerful deterrent from being victimized by an irrational violent person.”
The officers hired for the Arab City schools are part of the town’s police department and work on their days off for $15 per hour.
It is quite obvious you would think it a good idea that every school in America follows suit.
But see, we can't think logically here. We must go on pretending only "right wing nuts" want armed guards in schools. Things are easier that way.
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Oh, and I guess it doesn't occur to people that when you support an idea like this:
“Although school shootings are very rare, they are unpredictable and they always occur in communities where people say it would never happen here,” said Arab City School District superintendent John Mullins. His district in Alabama hired three additional armed school resource officers recently, placing armed officers in each of the district’s four schools.
“When it comes to the safety and well-being of our children, there is no price too high,” he said. The district allocated $66,000 of its $20 million budget for armed officers because they “seem to be a powerful deterrent from being victimized by an irrational violent person.”
The officers hired for the Arab City schools are part of the town’s police department and work on their days off for $15 per hour.
It is quite obvious you would think it a good idea that every school in America follows suit.
But see, we can't think logically here. We must go on pretending only "right wing nuts" want armed guards in schools. Things are easier that way.
yes, everuyone remembers your attempt to rationalize bigotry and try to keep biblebeating out of the happy marriage dsicussion. that was one for the ages.
fari enough, until there is a link to non-nranuts and non-gun manufacturers who also have called for the nranuts position of taxpayer funded armed guards in every school in the country and any teacher that wants one can go ahead and have one at school too, i'll assume it doesn't exists as i said.
unless i see that, i'll just ignore your trademarked attempts to steer the discussion to some stupid, narrow minded off topic point no one made in a failed attempt to follow along.
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yes, everuyone remembers your attempt to rationalize bigotry and try to keep biblebeating out of the happy marriage dsicussion. that was one for the ages.
fari enough, until there is a link to non-nranuts and non-gun manufacturers who also have called for the nranuts position of taxpayer funded armed guards in every school in the country and any teacher that wants one can go ahead and have one at school too, i'll assume it doesn't exists as i said.
unless i see that, i'll just ignore your trademarked attempts to steer the discussion to some stupid, narrow minded off topic point no one made in a failed attempt to follow along.
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