by the way the center for disease control also says 10.2 / 100,000

Did you selectively leave France out?

32 guns per 100 people compared to 88 guns per hundred in USA.
France has 3.0 gun deaths per 100,000 which is higher than USA's number despite more guns in USA.

Statistically speaking, 12 people out of every 100 do not own a gun. Yet a country like France (whom you chose to ignore) has more gun deaths.

Prevalence of homicide and violent crime is greatest in urban areas of the United States. In metropolitan areas, the homicide rate in 2005 was 6.1 per 100,000 compared with 3.5 in non-metropolitan counties.^[29] In U.S. cities with populations greater than 250,000, the mean homicide rate was 12.1 per 100,000.^[30] According to FBI statistics, the highest per capita rates of gun-related homicides in 2005 were in D.C. (35.4/100,000), Puerto Rico (19.6/100,000), Louisiana (9.9/100,000), & Maryland (9.9/100,000).^[31] The Bureau of Justice statistics from 2004 do not include D.C or Puerto Rico.

Homicide rates among 18- to 24-year-olds have declined since 1993, but remain higher than they were prior to the 1980s.^[18] In 2005, the 17 through 24 age group remains significantly overrepresented in violent crime statistics, particularly homicides involving firearms.^[32] In 2005, 17- through 19-year-olds were 4.3% of the overall population of the United States.^[33] This same age group accounted for 11.2% of those killed by firearm homicides.^[34] This age group also accounted for 10.6% of all homicide offenses.^[35] The 20- through 24-year-old age group accounted for 7.1% of the population,^[33] while accounting for 22.5% of those killed by firearm homicides.^[34] The 20 through 24 age group also accounted for 17.7% of all homicide offenses.People with a criminal record are also more likely to die as homicide victims.^[12] Between 1990 and 1994, 75% of all homicide victims age 21 and younger in the city of Boston had a prior criminal record.^[36] In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996.^[12][37] In Richmond, Virginia, the risk of gunshot injury is 22 times higher for those males involved with crime.^[38]

In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with a type of firearm not specified.^[39]  

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States}

^{-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------}

Wikipedia factors in suicides which dramatically raises the number.

See text in red. This is reason enough to keep status quo. Guns save us money on incarceration and court resources. 75% of homicide victims had criminal record. HMMM

and to dismiss wikipedia's numbers because it includes suicides is not exactly correct for a gun control discussion (especially since it was one of the original talking points from the OP of this thread. 

Lastly -- in post #31 are you implying that gun related are deaths are good because they save money on court and jail costs because of the number of people under 21 who had criminal records?  So in other words, to paraphrase, those individuals essentially deserved a death sentence for their crime?

Whatever site you find that says 10+ gun deaths per 100,000 I don't accept.

Suicides shouldn't count because if people really want to off themselves they will find any way they can to facilitate that.

To answer your post 35# I am implying that if its a problem that solves other problems (plural) then is it really a problem?

Even wikipedia says way less than 10 per 100,000. see following.

Prevalence of homicide and violent crime is greatest in urban areas of the United States. In metropolitan areas, the homicide rate in 2005 was 6.1 per 100,000 compared with 3.5 in non-metropolitan counties.

If the mean homicide rate in 2005 was 6.1 per 100k then how the hell can the gun homicides be more than 6.1? It can't. Your numbers are wrong.

If France can have less guns per 100 people than USA by more than half and USA has roughly the same gun homicides per 100k I would say that is a really low number given the number of guns owned.

Only if you count suicides which is not being honest being that if someone wants to off themselves they will find any way to do it and if they insist on a gun they will find one in ANY of those countries.

The other fact is that USA has at least double per 100 people than any other country. Legal guns that is.

For us to have more than double the guns per 100 people than France and having roughly the same homicide number per 100k people doesn't mean anything to you?

If not then why should I waste my time with ignorance?

Officially, suicides are widely accepted as homicides.   According to Pinker's book, violence has declined in the long term for most of the world.  However murder rates haven't fallen in the U.S. during past century.  The difference is American culture in which it is acceptable for individuals to defend rights by violence instead of seeking justice through the law.  With guns everywhere, the murder rate is even higher.

Bowslit - These are going to be my last posts as this is becoming very circular and annoying. In all of this gun control debate stuff that has been going around there is a reason that I have NEVER heard anyone dispute that the US is the leading "developed" country in terms of gun related deaths. This includes media, online, news talk shows, personal conversations, and even here on covers. It is just true and other than you no one is disputing this. There is a wealth - a shitload of information out there to support this. It is what it is. A simple google search will turn up enough reading to keep you busy for as long as you desire. The real gun control debate is geared around why this is and can we change it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/shooting-gun-laws-2012-12

Unless one is serving in the military, I see ZERO reason for ANYONE to have an assault weapon.  And if assault weapons are legal, we should also be allowed to purchase a fire bomber like they used in the jungles of Vietnam. 

Thanks but I accept homicide/murder to be defined as the following:

The unlawful killing of a human by another human with malice aforethought.

Since suicides don't fit that definition. Ive decided that we shall not include them in the gun debate since people could kill themselves with a single shot musket if there were never a rapid fire pistol or rifle ever made.

I'll let you know when its your turn to make the rules! OK pumkin?

Matt, I appreciate your efforts but your own links corroborated my accounting of gun homicides in the USA. I know you would love to throw suicides into your 'facts' to help bolster your case but its just not an honest way to have this discussion. I can see why you would love to bail out of this discussion because the facts are not on your side.

Your problem is you fail to look at this issue objectively.

ATF estimates of guns in the USA is about 223 million yet we only average below 10,000 gun related homicides per year. 89 people out of every 100 are said to have guns yet we still have way less than countries that have weak governments like Guatemala, Panama, Philippines, Honduras, Brazil, Columbia, Jamaica, El Salvador, Mexico, Nicaragua, Paraguay, and even Switzerland. (according to your link) And I'm talking WAY less.

Did I mention WAY LESS gun homicides then places above where a perp is more likely to get away with the crime than here in the USA.

You people that feel the need to compare with another country that is similar to US in government and other demographics.

There is no other country that compares to USA in number of guns per 100 people. I feel like you cringe at that thought based on some of your comments. No other country in the world has even half of the guns per 100 people than we do. Very few countries have as many people as we have in the USA.

It is foolish for one to think that we would have less gun homicides than most countries based on the fact that we have guns O plenty combined with a high population of criminals that don't value human life.

In 2007 there were 16,929 murders in the USA, of those murders 10,129 involved guns. That means only 59% of the murderer's that year chose to use a gun to facilitate their crime in spite of how easy it may be to get their hands on a gun in the USA.

I'm not at all saying that it is a great thing to have numbers like that. What I'm saying is that a reasonable person would likely forecast numbers far greater than that given the demographics that exist in the USA regarding guns.

There are more people in the USA that die from cirrhosis than there are people that get murdered by guns. You should be far more worried about deaths associated with Alcohol then you should be with regards to gun homicides.

Any good reason why your priorities are mixed up?

My guess is you will continue to find more reasons to bail out on the discussion and blame it on me in spite of the points I have SUCCESSFULLY delivered to you that proves that I am correct.

I don't believe, that there are currently any Federal laws governing or restricting the ownership of flame-throwing devices.............

This forum certainly serves as a flame-throwing device.

Merry Christmas, all.

APKKK is that you?  the known pedophile on Covers...