@StumpTownStu
“He had a great defense, and a great tandem of backs. Pretty damn good offensive line. Jimmy G was the weak link. This is why he overreached on Trey Lance.“
I agree. But it is not a knock on Lance as much as I wish they had given him more time.
Hey, maybe Lance is the piece that puts them back in SB and then anything can happen. He has upside for sure.
They definitely reached on Lance. I wouldn't have made that move, especially given the weak QB class. I would've said, "Jimmy G is our guy," and taken a flier on a project in the 2nd or 3rd.
You also have to understand Kyle and his offense. He isn't one of the wunderkind offensive coordinator QB guru guys that is gonna develop a guy. He grabs a guy like Trey based more on working with the tools he was born with as opposed to developing a guy in a system.
It'll be interesting to see if McVay can develop a QB.
Um clearly the market for Jimmy has spoken and it is saying he is Not a top 15 QB. Why would Washington Trade for Carson Winced meat. Why would the Colts trade for a 37 year Matt Ryan? The Falcons choose to go with Mariota this season. The Seahawks rather go with Drew Locke and Geno Smith. The Panthers still have no Qb..
Little Jimmy's health status is up in the air...why would anyone sign Carson Wenz??? Well, I can only think of one reason...insanity. I am thrilled that a team signed him though because I have made money fading his sorry ass.
The Panthers drafted the best college QB in Matt Corral imo...Darnold sucks like his brother from a different Mother... Wenz.
I would be worried about his health. He still has to be cleared by medical. That all came at an awkward time. Because teams need to get all of their moves done, draft, etc. Then you still are not certain IF the 49ers will trade him OR if he will be healthy.
The ‘market speaking’ and him being a top 15 QB when healthy have nothing to do with each other in this instance. Obviously, even the team that has him does not want him. That does not take away his winning record year after year, his efficiency year after year, he effectiveness year after year, and his ATS year after year.
In other words for him NOT to be a top 15 QB — someone would have to list 15 that are better. No one can do this. The numbers don’t really care what you think or who you like — the numbers are what they are.
Give it a shot sometime and see what a struggle you have after say 8 or 9.
Now you can say you want a healthy guy or a more mobile guy or a more athletic guy. You can even say you want to draft your own guy. Any of that is fine. But to talk bad about the guy that has been winning for you and, therefore, downgrade his trade status, etc.
That is where the 49ers have very, very poorly handled this! All they had to do was wait on Jimmy G to get healthy and get cleared and then shop him. But to talk and imply how he is not that good, etc. — how does that help your team at all?
But again — as I always say fans do not really realize how hard it is to find the next big time QB. So when they have a guy like Cousins or Jimmy G — they don’t really appreciate how good those guys are. They blame any losing on their ‘perceived’ sorry QB, when they need other help. You cannot expect an average or above average QB to carry your team every game! Even Rodgers can’t do that and is not expected to do that.
But sit down sometime and list 15 better QBs — not just the ones you’d prefer or the ones you like. 15 better and more effective winners — then try to back it up with any sort of numbers against his. 
All true and I agree. But you also have to look at each team separately and see what their current path is. Carolina should go ahead and build through the draft, for example. Some teams need more than a QB or even just a game manager. Carolina couldn’t win with Wilson or Rodgers, I don’t think. Then some QBs just have to go to the right situation. You are not going to get, say, Wilson to rebuild. He is not coming to your team to do that. He is coming because he thinks he has a chance to win now! Seattle was not caught flat footed — this has been going on for the last 3 years. So, now you are going to do with those guys? Good luck with that.
Then other teams have to be real risky to take a chance on an injury prone guy — unless they think that risk is enough if he will get them over the hump in Hebron playoffs, etc. Every team is at a different stage.
It still goes back to perception. Even at the elite level there are huge differences people do not notice. For example, in my Brady and Rodgers comparison in the other thread. Also, with Wilson — an all-time great. But folks prefer the next ‘big name’.
@Raiders22
Winning record year after year?
You can't be serious. You have to be trolling. He had a few starts in New England. And while he won those few starts, that was oiled machine if a team.
Then he comes into SF late in a throw away season and they figure, "Might as well see what he's got." They throw him in and he looks fantastic. Rips off something like 5 wins. Everybody's like, "Oh my god, Jimmy G!" He was efficient. He put up good efficiency numbers, good yardage. Still didn't put in the endzone very much, and averaged a pick a game. Then the injuries happened.
He has been injured in two of his first full seasons in SF. Three of you count last year. In his starts in the two Injury years his numbers were bad. He was 13-3 as a starter I. The SB year. 9-6 last year. So yes he has won but this "winning year after year noise is just that.
"...due to MECHANICS and health..."
This is alI I have been saying. I became obsessed with Jimmy G's throwing mechanics in the 2019 season. You say they always left something to be desire. I didn't start paying attention until 2019 but it started with game one and continued through the Super Bowl. I was OBSESSED! Assumed it was because of the knee. Now I realize that maybe he shouldn't even be afforded that excuse.
As far as health, it can't be discounted. How many athletes fall into the column of, "He would be great except..." The most common "except" is health and durability. The next common is usually some mechanical flaw. Not following through on a jumpshot. Doing some weird shoulder motion in a swing.
Nobody can deny Jimmy G was a winner for two seasons in SF. He was 13-3 one year but he was 9-6 last year. He had a below .500 record in his 9 starts during his injury seasons. He went on a 5 win tear in a lost season. His record is padded by those 5 wins and the 13-3 effort. Let's not act like he has been this perennial winner for many years.
Yes. Always has had flawed mechanics. In fact there are even articles online with him talking about why he throws flat footed, etc.
Never been my point that he has won for 10+ years. You have to judge him by the time he has played. When he has played he has won at an astounding rate and has been effective enough to stay a top 15 QB. That is my only contention. There have been several QBs with below elite-level arms and mobility that have been effective — JG isn’t just simply one of those is all my point is.
Therefore, my point stands that that team has mangled that whole situation needlessly.
They should have kept him as the starter and if he was hurt played Lance and developed him. If JG got or stayed hurt — play Lance. Then shop JG. Amazing how they messed that up. And now they might do it with Samuel.
I have judged him by the time he has played. Since you put so much stick in record,he had one great year (13-3) and one decent/mediocre year (9-6). He had two injury plagued years where he went a combined 4-5. He had that magical run in a throw away year, to start his Niners career where he went 5-0. You add of it up, and yeah, it equates to a great record but it's weighted by the 13-3 year and the 5-0 start, when he and the Niners had nothing to lose. You say TDs Ints, TD:Int ratio don't tell the whole story. Record REALLY doesn't tell the story. He has a playoff win where he attempted like 6 passes.
Who is the real Jimmy G? Is it the guy that went 13-3, who started his career 5-0? Or is he that middle. Or is he the mediocre QB that went 9-6 last year and 4-5 across two injury plagued years. The guy who throws a ton of picks and a relative few touchdowns.
Sure. Record doesn’t show everything. I get that. But the multiple efficiency stats that I listed lend a better view of his football IQ and ability. You can’t just dismiss the partial season either. They count for/against his record and stats. But the two full seasons he did get them in the playoffs and made a couple of runs.
It is not that I am high on his record. His record is what it is — very good! It is just amazing how good and efficient and effective he has been is all. If you listen to the media and the coaches and fans — you would think he was just about as bad as you could be at QB. But he really isn’t. Same with Cousins and a couple of others. I am not even a 49ers fan. I just wonder if that staff and fans really think the next Montana is on the way.
I did read one article from the 49er reporter that lists his reasons that they need to move on to Lance and an article also saying that June 15th is they key day because Lance will be taking all the reps and Jimmy G can’t throw until at least July. He says no way they have him on the roster to start the season. No need to pay $27M to a backup.
But his best reason(s) to me were the possible fracturing of the locker-room — of course he went into detail about the Montana and Young era. But the other was that it was not fair to Lance to keep him waiting. If he is your guy, then go ahead and go with him.
Basically, what I was saying. But I would have done it in a different manner to get value and keep confidence. Now they have done neither.
But he was pretty scathing.
Then you have this guy from right before the playoff game:
But Garoppolo has responded to the challenge this season. He started 15 of 17 regular-season games, plus two more in the playoffs, playing through injuries to his calf and thumb. Garoppolo finished ninth in the NFL in passer rating (98.7), sixth in completion percentage (68.3), and second in yards per attempt (8.6).
And, as he has done throughout his career, all he did was win. Garoppolo is 11-6 this season including the postseason, and is now 37-15 in his career (4-1 postseason). His .712 career win percentage ranks fifth in NFL history, behind only Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Roger Staubach, and Lamar Jackson.
Garoppolo has become one of the most polarizing NFL quarterbacks, and the centerpiece of the debate over whether wins are a quarterback stat.
He makes one or two throws per game that make you want to rip your hair out. Last week against the Packers, Garoppolo threw several dangerous passes that through divine intervention weren’t intercepted and returned for touchdowns. And the 49ers always have featured a strong run game that takes some pressure off the quarterback. Garoppolo ranked 25th this season with 29.4 pass attempts per game.
Yet it can’t be a coincidence that whenever Garoppolo makes it through a season healthy, the 49ers have an opportunity to get to the Super Bowl. In 2019, the 49ers went 13-3, had the No. 1 seed in the NFC, and held a 10-point lead in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl before falling apart. This season, Garoppolo has the 49ers back in the NFC Championship game, and with a win over the Rams, Garoppolo can join some guy named Joe Montana as the only 49ers quarterbacks to reach multiple Super Bowls.
Garoppolo’s raw stats were solid this season, but a deeper look makes him look more impressive. He was outstanding against the blitz this season, with a 74.7 completion percentage, seven touchdowns, just one interception, and a 128.7 passer rating that was second-best in the NFL.
Garoppolo hit an impressive number of big plays, too. He hit a 25-yard completion on 7.5 percent of his pass attempts, third in the NFL behind only Russell Wilson (9 percent) and Joe Burrow (7.7 percent).
So, two very contrasting views on him. They are both warranted too. That is the point.
When you have started that many games in the NFL and do that well — that is no fluke.
But when you miss that many starts because of injury — then a team has the right to look for a more dependable player.
They just should have handled it better.
@Raiders22
He has been a winner. I just can't get past his horrible mechanics. Poor mechanics will inevitably bite you in the arse, especially if not afforded a decent offensive line, decent weapons, a decent running game. Especially if asked to throw the ball 40 times a game.. He can obviously prove me wrong. We'll see. I really hope he gets the opportunity to prove me wrong. Not sure how many offenses he fits though. Do you think he could do the things Justin Herbert does. Could he have been as successful as Bayou Burreaux, behind that line? Could he do the things Patrick Mahomes does? If you swap him and Matthew Stafford, do the Rams win the Super Bowl? If he is on the Raiders last year instead of Carr, do.thry make it to the wildcard? Is he a force multiplier on a bad team like the Lions? Nobody wants him. Is every team wrong and you are right? How much of the Niners success should be attributed to Jimmy, and how much to the rest of the team, and the system? My opinion if Jimmy doesn't come from talking heads, or anything except for observing his very poor mechanics. And given his years as a backup, his injuries, for a guy at this point in his career, I can't say that I have seen enough of a sampling to say, "Yep, Jimmy G is the real deal. You make valid points and back it up with stats but I have watched the majority of his games and at times he looks gawd awful. I will accept that in the hypothetical "when healthy" tense, he is a top half QB. You could make the argument that he is too 10, when healthy. Let's see him prove it,if given the chance. I'll tell you this though. There aren't very many teams running these throwback style offenses. The Niners. The Titans. What team that plans to have their QB drop back 35-40 times is taking a shot on Jimmy G,even if healthy?
Yessir. All good points. But now with the way the 49ers handled it and with Jimmy G injury — of course nobody is interested.
Just by definition, he can help most teams that need help. But he has to stay healthy to do it.
Yes. He is limited. But like the guy said everyone knew it and they still kept using the same throw pattern-area on the field all year with good success.
It will be interesting if they can even move him. They have to take a $7M hit I think if they just cut him.
At any rate a good discussion. We shall see what happens.
The other issue from the thread title I never got to was Mayfield. Cleveland is about to botch that whole deal the same way.
Now they have to go away from Mayfield. He knows they don’t want him. What do they do if Watson for sure doesn’t play.
What a mess. The issue there is Mayfield has better mechanics than Jimmy G — but he is awful as far as QB IQ and efficiency go.
I never got far enough along to contrast the two situations. Got sidetracked with the Jimmy G deal.
But either way, it will be interesting to see what each of those two teams do now.
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