Posted:
#76
Quote Originally Posted by MJ2345:
Rodgers was just on the news saying defending Cutler.
Rodgers was just on the news saying defending Cutler.
Class act for sure......good stuff
Jay Cutler. A Chicagoan perspective.
Posted:
#78
I have slightly different take that I haven't heard anyone hit on....
Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in, he pleads with Lovie, begs his way back in, beats his chest, whatever...and then proceeds to play like a guy who has a knee injury....can't run, can't plant, can't move laterally, can't avoid the rush and he fails miserably -- 3 picks, a bunch of sacks, he's hobbling all over, can't scramble, can't avoid the rush, throwing off his back foot, just a mess. But he plays. The whole way. Bears lose 28-0.
And then he next day we find out he had the MCL tear, he knew it, the coaches knew it, but he wanted to play through it anyway.
Now, these same dopes who are criticizing him now for coming out of the game...would they have lauded him for staying in? Or, would they have said that Cutler was being selfish, that only cares about himself, that he wanted to play more than he wanted his team to win, that he thinks he's above the team, etc etc?
Because had he stayed in, that almost certainly would have been the scenario. He struggled before he got injured. GB sees him hobbling and they'd have been all over him like maggots on shit. Or, if it's close and he needs to run down the field in a last minute hurry up scenario and can't...how brave is that really? Is it brave or or is selfish? Seems like a pretty fine line, at the very least. Those who think they are smart enough to draw that line while eating cheetos on their couch and watching Fox's crappy coverage are morons.
Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in, he pleads with Lovie, begs his way back in, beats his chest, whatever...and then proceeds to play like a guy who has a knee injury....can't run, can't plant, can't move laterally, can't avoid the rush and he fails miserably -- 3 picks, a bunch of sacks, he's hobbling all over, can't scramble, can't avoid the rush, throwing off his back foot, just a mess. But he plays. The whole way. Bears lose 28-0.
And then he next day we find out he had the MCL tear, he knew it, the coaches knew it, but he wanted to play through it anyway.
Now, these same dopes who are criticizing him now for coming out of the game...would they have lauded him for staying in? Or, would they have said that Cutler was being selfish, that only cares about himself, that he wanted to play more than he wanted his team to win, that he thinks he's above the team, etc etc?
Because had he stayed in, that almost certainly would have been the scenario. He struggled before he got injured. GB sees him hobbling and they'd have been all over him like maggots on shit. Or, if it's close and he needs to run down the field in a last minute hurry up scenario and can't...how brave is that really? Is it brave or or is selfish? Seems like a pretty fine line, at the very least. Those who think they are smart enough to draw that line while eating cheetos on their couch and watching Fox's crappy coverage are morons.
Posted:
#79
Quote Originally Posted by d33jay86:
mayb next time u should put your money on GB CUZ CHICAGO SUCKS ASS!! ahaha. also VEGAS LOVES CUTLER!!! cuz they made money off of DUMB PEOPLE LIKE U! ahahaha
Your such an idiot and maybe the amount of posts you have explains it! Vegas actually lost their ass because the 80% of the money was on the Packers and Vegas would of won had the Bears covered! Keep drinking your Haterade punkass!!
Posted:
#83
Quote Originally Posted by BigNiner:
It's obvious you spent a lot of time, thought, and effort in making this post, but out of principle, I immediately stopped reading when you quoted Skip Bayless. That immediately discredited whatever was to follow.
I'm not a fan o Bayless, but I beleive he went to Vandy. He may have a little insight on this situation.
Posted:
#84
Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:
I have slightly different take that I haven't heard anyone hit on....
Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in, he pleads with Lovie, begs his way back in, beats his chest, whatever...and then proceeds to play like a guy who has a knee injury....can't run, can't plant, can't move laterally, can't avoid the rush and he fails miserably -- 3 picks, a bunch of sacks, he's hobbling all over, can't scramble, can't avoid the rush, throwing off his back foot, just a mess. But he plays. The whole way. Bears lose 28-0.
And then he next day we find out he had the MCL tear, he knew it, the coaches knew it, but he wanted to play through it anyway.
Now, these same dopes who are criticizing him now for coming out of the game...would they have lauded him for staying in? Or, would they have said that Cutler was being selfish, that only cares about himself, that he wanted to play more than he wanted his team to win, that he thinks he's above the team, etc etc?
I have slightly different take that I haven't heard anyone hit on....
Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in, he pleads with Lovie, begs his way back in, beats his chest, whatever...and then proceeds to play like a guy who has a knee injury....can't run, can't plant, can't move laterally, can't avoid the rush and he fails miserably -- 3 picks, a bunch of sacks, he's hobbling all over, can't scramble, can't avoid the rush, throwing off his back foot, just a mess. But he plays. The whole way. Bears lose 28-0.
And then he next day we find out he had the MCL tear, he knew it, the coaches knew it, but he wanted to play through it anyway.
Now, these same dopes who are criticizing him now for coming out of the game...would they have lauded him for staying in? Or, would they have said that Cutler was being selfish, that only cares about himself, that he wanted to play more than he wanted his team to win, that he thinks he's above the team, etc etc?
Because had he stayed in, that almost certainly would have been the scenario. He struggled before he got injured. GB sees him hobbling and they'd have been all over him like maggots on shit. Or, if it's close and he needs to run down the field in a last minute hurry up scenario and can't...how brave is that really? Is it brave or or is selfish? Seems like a pretty fine line, at the very least. Those who think they are smart enough to draw that line while eating cheetos on their couch and watching Fox's crappy coverage are morons.
Posted:
#85
I can't believe this thread is still churning. I leave for a day at a time to come back and find more nonsensical bullshit on this thread. I've yet to see a single good point of a Jay supporter anywhere to be found. It's always a theory with not enough evidence or outright false/naive explanations.
Depeche - "Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in," bla bla bla. Nice theory guy. And "throwing off his back foot" bla, bla, bla. Jay always throws off his back foot. Again. You must not watch Bears games and watch them closely. Throwing off his back foot all the time is one of his biggest criticisms He easily could have thrown every pass of it in the second half. Some holes in your theory, including the opening line.
1) Jay hurt his knee at the end of the second quarter
2) Got checked out by the team at halftime and they said he could play. Because he played one series in the second half. HE, I repeat HE decided HE was done after the incomplete pass where he had full mobility.
3) He never hobbled or limped the entire game. Your theory of what would have happened is a totally disposable summation.
4) Again. You can't watch his last series of the third quarter and say he was too immobile to continue the game. Especially the last play.
The list of excuses for Jay are all disposable.
1) 'His teammates suppported him' Yeah, five or six of them. Awesome. Good teammate 101. Why would they have any other company line? They have no choice in this position immediately and days following after the game. I'm surprised more of the team hasn't come out to defend him. And don't say they have, because I live here and they haven't/didn't.
2) He helped Hanie. This is bullshit and the point is overblown. I don't doubt he gave him a couple lines of encouagement, but it's beside the point. He should have been WAY more involved as a leader for the whole team. A little ra ra on the sidelines, high fiving the defense for another amazing stop, endless etc..... Oh and BTW. It matters nothing that Hanie supported him after the game. What else would he ever do????? Throw him under the bus for not being a better teammate after all the heat he was taking for showing no passion. He's the third string QB and would like to came back to the organization next year as the second string.
3) 'The camera's only caught the negative images.' Yeah another impromptu camera man smear campaign by the network. Executed with such precision. I can hear it over the walkie talkie now, " Hey guys, lets only catch the shots of Jay being a worthless and lifeless fuck on the sidelines. Nothing that might show he might not be mentally checked out of the game. Thats an order!!!"
I know without a doubt that most of the Jay supporters know the least about his history and or everyday impossible to like bratty frat boy persona we are all so familiar with in Chicago. You are mostly supporting him for the sake of argument you can't back away from because you've over invested in supportive nonsense.
All my points have a backing of what we all saw and heard. I'm tired of this argument because it will never be solved. You either agree( Or know for sure like me) that Jay could have tried harder to play hurt. And I know he was hurt. Or make baseless excuses for him based on nothing we actually saw on the field of play.
Two questions I would have liked Jay answer that may have gained him some simpathy from me and millions of others.
1) What exactly couldn't you do out on the field that made you not want to play anymore? Planting is not an acceptable answer, b/c you don't plant. Moving with nimble feet is not either b/c you were doing that fine before you checked yourself out of the game.
2) On what play exactly did you get hurt? Oh wait I remember. You said you're not sure. I know of all the terrible injury's I've ever personally had that were sooooo painful I couldn't have continued in the NFC Championship game, I would have a hard time pinpointing that as well. All that pain on Jays face. You can see him wincing through the helmet.
Last point for you pea brain naive mo mo's. If Cutler did tell Lovie he wanted to play in the third but couldn't because of his knee having an ouchy, do you ever think we would know that? Of course not!!!! Whether Jay said it was too debilitating to play or Lovie and the medical team pulled him we would always get the same explanation. Company line 101 for all you naive Nancy's out there.
As long as there is tape showing Cutler move around the way he did on those last two series before he came out I will never believe he didn't tap out. It's not just about toughness. It's also about playing through pain, which requires passion of the hundredth degree Jay didn't possess on that Sunday.
Doesn't make him a bad guy or somebody that I wish to see fail from here on out. It makes him somebody who didn't dig deep enough when it mattered the most. He made a bad decision most of all on not trying longer through the game to give it a go.
I don't think he will ever recover in Chicago. Best of luck in another city. Sincerely.
I'm done on this thread unless somebody makes a single good point in disagreement.
Depeche - "Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in," bla bla bla. Nice theory guy. And "throwing off his back foot" bla, bla, bla. Jay always throws off his back foot. Again. You must not watch Bears games and watch them closely. Throwing off his back foot all the time is one of his biggest criticisms He easily could have thrown every pass of it in the second half. Some holes in your theory, including the opening line.
1) Jay hurt his knee at the end of the second quarter
2) Got checked out by the team at halftime and they said he could play. Because he played one series in the second half. HE, I repeat HE decided HE was done after the incomplete pass where he had full mobility.
3) He never hobbled or limped the entire game. Your theory of what would have happened is a totally disposable summation.
4) Again. You can't watch his last series of the third quarter and say he was too immobile to continue the game. Especially the last play.
The list of excuses for Jay are all disposable.
1) 'His teammates suppported him' Yeah, five or six of them. Awesome. Good teammate 101. Why would they have any other company line? They have no choice in this position immediately and days following after the game. I'm surprised more of the team hasn't come out to defend him. And don't say they have, because I live here and they haven't/didn't.
2) He helped Hanie. This is bullshit and the point is overblown. I don't doubt he gave him a couple lines of encouagement, but it's beside the point. He should have been WAY more involved as a leader for the whole team. A little ra ra on the sidelines, high fiving the defense for another amazing stop, endless etc..... Oh and BTW. It matters nothing that Hanie supported him after the game. What else would he ever do????? Throw him under the bus for not being a better teammate after all the heat he was taking for showing no passion. He's the third string QB and would like to came back to the organization next year as the second string.
3) 'The camera's only caught the negative images.' Yeah another impromptu camera man smear campaign by the network. Executed with such precision. I can hear it over the walkie talkie now, " Hey guys, lets only catch the shots of Jay being a worthless and lifeless fuck on the sidelines. Nothing that might show he might not be mentally checked out of the game. Thats an order!!!"
I know without a doubt that most of the Jay supporters know the least about his history and or everyday impossible to like bratty frat boy persona we are all so familiar with in Chicago. You are mostly supporting him for the sake of argument you can't back away from because you've over invested in supportive nonsense.
All my points have a backing of what we all saw and heard. I'm tired of this argument because it will never be solved. You either agree( Or know for sure like me) that Jay could have tried harder to play hurt. And I know he was hurt. Or make baseless excuses for him based on nothing we actually saw on the field of play.
Two questions I would have liked Jay answer that may have gained him some simpathy from me and millions of others.
1) What exactly couldn't you do out on the field that made you not want to play anymore? Planting is not an acceptable answer, b/c you don't plant. Moving with nimble feet is not either b/c you were doing that fine before you checked yourself out of the game.
2) On what play exactly did you get hurt? Oh wait I remember. You said you're not sure. I know of all the terrible injury's I've ever personally had that were sooooo painful I couldn't have continued in the NFC Championship game, I would have a hard time pinpointing that as well. All that pain on Jays face. You can see him wincing through the helmet.
Last point for you pea brain naive mo mo's. If Cutler did tell Lovie he wanted to play in the third but couldn't because of his knee having an ouchy, do you ever think we would know that? Of course not!!!! Whether Jay said it was too debilitating to play or Lovie and the medical team pulled him we would always get the same explanation. Company line 101 for all you naive Nancy's out there.
As long as there is tape showing Cutler move around the way he did on those last two series before he came out I will never believe he didn't tap out. It's not just about toughness. It's also about playing through pain, which requires passion of the hundredth degree Jay didn't possess on that Sunday.
Doesn't make him a bad guy or somebody that I wish to see fail from here on out. It makes him somebody who didn't dig deep enough when it mattered the most. He made a bad decision most of all on not trying longer through the game to give it a go.
I don't think he will ever recover in Chicago. Best of luck in another city. Sincerely.
I'm done on this thread unless somebody makes a single good point in disagreement.
Posted:
#86
Quote Originally Posted by Greyhound:
Cutler is an average QB. They gave up way too much to get him. And they are paying him way too much. 
And he's an average quarterback that nobody likes which makes it even worse. 
Everybody loved Kyle Orton's personality and his stats the last two years are just as good or better than Cutlers stats the last two years. 
His stats in Chitown werent so great..they had like 4 pass plays over 20 yds in a whole season
Posted:
#87
Quote Originally Posted by EverydayEddie:
I can't believe this thread is still churning. I leave for a day at a time to come back and find more nonsensical bullshit on this thread. I've yet to see a single good point of a Jay supporter anywhere to be found. It's always a theory with not enough evidence or outright false/naive explanations.
Depeche - "Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in," bla bla bla. Nice theory guy. And "throwing off his back foot" bla, bla, bla. Jay always throws off his back foot. Again. You must not watch Bears games and watch them closely. Throwing off his back foot all the time is one of his biggest criticisms He easily could have thrown every pass of it in the second half. Some holes in your theory, including the opening line.
1) Jay hurt his knee at the end of the second quarter
2) Got checked out by the team at halftime and they said he could play. Because he played one series in the second half. HE, I repeat HE decided HE was done after the incomplete pass where he had full mobility.
3) He never hobbled or limped the entire game. Your theory of what would have happened is a totally disposable summation.
4) Again. You can't watch his last series of the third quarter and say he was too immobile to continue the game. Especially the last play.
The list of excuses for Jay are all disposable.
1) 'His teammates suppported him' Yeah, five or six of them. Awesome. Good teammate 101. Why would they have any other company line? They have no choice in this position immediately and days following after the game. I'm surprised more of the team hasn't come out to defend him. And don't say they have, because I live here and they haven't/didn't.
2) He helped Hanie. This is bullshit and the point is overblown. I don't doubt he gave him a couple lines of encouagement, but it's beside the point. He should have been WAY more involved as a leader for the whole team. A little ra ra on the sidelines, high fiving the defense for another amazing stop, endless etc..... Oh and BTW. It matters nothing that Hanie supported him after the game. What else would he ever do????? Throw him under the bus for not being a better teammate after all the heat he was taking for showing no passion. He's the third string QB and would like to came back to the organization next year as the second string.
3) 'The camera's only caught the negative images.' Yeah another impromptu camera man smear campaign by the network. Executed with such precision. I can hear it over the walkie talkie now, " Hey guys, lets only catch the shots of Jay being a worthless and lifeless fuck on the sidelines. Nothing that might show he might not be mentally checked out of the game. Thats an order!!!"
I know without a doubt that most of the Jay supporters know the least about his history and or everyday impossible to like bratty frat boy persona we are all so familiar with in Chicago. You are mostly supporting him for the sake of argument you can't back away from because you've over invested in supportive nonsense.
All my points have a backing of what we all saw and heard. I'm tired of this argument because it will never be solved. You either agree( Or know for sure like me) that Jay could have tried harder to play hurt. And I know he was hurt. Or make baseless excuses for him based on nothing we actually saw on the field of play.
Two questions I would have liked Jay answer that may have gained him some simpathy from me and millions of others.
1) What exactly couldn't you do out on the field that made you not want to play anymore? Planting is not an acceptable answer, b/c you don't plant. Moving with nimble feet is not either b/c you were doing that fine before you checked yourself out of the game.
2) On what play exactly did you get hurt? Oh wait I remember. You said you're not sure. I know of all the terrible injury's I've ever personally had that were sooooo painful I couldn't have continued in the NFC Championship game, I would have a hard time pinpointing that as well. All that pain on Jays face. You can see him wincing through the helmet.
Last point for you pea brain naive mo mo's. If Cutler did tell Lovie he wanted to play in the third but couldn't because of his knee having an ouchy, do you ever think we would know that? Of course not!!!! Whether Jay said it was too debilitating to play or Lovie and the medical team pulled him we would always get the same explanation. Company line 101 for all you naive Nancy's out there.
As long as there is tape showing Cutler move around the way he did on those last two series before he came out I will never believe he didn't tap out. It's not just about toughness. It's also about playing through pain, which requires passion of the hundredth degree Jay didn't possess on that Sunday.
Doesn't make him a bad guy or somebody that I wish to see fail from here on out. It makes him somebody who didn't dig deep enough when it mattered the most. He made a bad decision most of all on not trying longer through the game to give it a go.
I don't think he will ever recover in Chicago. Best of luck in another city. Sincerely.
I'm done on this thread unless somebody makes a single good point in disagreement.
I can't believe this thread is still churning. I leave for a day at a time to come back and find more nonsensical bullshit on this thread. I've yet to see a single good point of a Jay supporter anywhere to be found. It's always a theory with not enough evidence or outright false/naive explanations.
Depeche - "Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in," bla bla bla. Nice theory guy. And "throwing off his back foot" bla, bla, bla. Jay always throws off his back foot. Again. You must not watch Bears games and watch them closely. Throwing off his back foot all the time is one of his biggest criticisms He easily could have thrown every pass of it in the second half. Some holes in your theory, including the opening line.
1) Jay hurt his knee at the end of the second quarter
2) Got checked out by the team at halftime and they said he could play. Because he played one series in the second half. HE, I repeat HE decided HE was done after the incomplete pass where he had full mobility.
3) He never hobbled or limped the entire game. Your theory of what would have happened is a totally disposable summation.
4) Again. You can't watch his last series of the third quarter and say he was too immobile to continue the game. Especially the last play.
The list of excuses for Jay are all disposable.
1) 'His teammates suppported him' Yeah, five or six of them. Awesome. Good teammate 101. Why would they have any other company line? They have no choice in this position immediately and days following after the game. I'm surprised more of the team hasn't come out to defend him. And don't say they have, because I live here and they haven't/didn't.
2) He helped Hanie. This is bullshit and the point is overblown. I don't doubt he gave him a couple lines of encouagement, but it's beside the point. He should have been WAY more involved as a leader for the whole team. A little ra ra on the sidelines, high fiving the defense for another amazing stop, endless etc..... Oh and BTW. It matters nothing that Hanie supported him after the game. What else would he ever do????? Throw him under the bus for not being a better teammate after all the heat he was taking for showing no passion. He's the third string QB and would like to came back to the organization next year as the second string.
3) 'The camera's only caught the negative images.' Yeah another impromptu camera man smear campaign by the network. Executed with such precision. I can hear it over the walkie talkie now, " Hey guys, lets only catch the shots of Jay being a worthless and lifeless fuck on the sidelines. Nothing that might show he might not be mentally checked out of the game. Thats an order!!!"
I know without a doubt that most of the Jay supporters know the least about his history and or everyday impossible to like bratty frat boy persona we are all so familiar with in Chicago. You are mostly supporting him for the sake of argument you can't back away from because you've over invested in supportive nonsense.
All my points have a backing of what we all saw and heard. I'm tired of this argument because it will never be solved. You either agree( Or know for sure like me) that Jay could have tried harder to play hurt. And I know he was hurt. Or make baseless excuses for him based on nothing we actually saw on the field of play.
Two questions I would have liked Jay answer that may have gained him some simpathy from me and millions of others.
1) What exactly couldn't you do out on the field that made you not want to play anymore? Planting is not an acceptable answer, b/c you don't plant. Moving with nimble feet is not either b/c you were doing that fine before you checked yourself out of the game.
2) On what play exactly did you get hurt? Oh wait I remember. You said you're not sure. I know of all the terrible injury's I've ever personally had that were sooooo painful I couldn't have continued in the NFC Championship game, I would have a hard time pinpointing that as well. All that pain on Jays face. You can see him wincing through the helmet.
Last point for you pea brain naive mo mo's. If Cutler did tell Lovie he wanted to play in the third but couldn't because of his knee having an ouchy, do you ever think we would know that? Of course not!!!! Whether Jay said it was too debilitating to play or Lovie and the medical team pulled him we would always get the same explanation. Company line 101 for all you naive Nancy's out there.
As long as there is tape showing Cutler move around the way he did on those last two series before he came out I will never believe he didn't tap out. It's not just about toughness. It's also about playing through pain, which requires passion of the hundredth degree Jay didn't possess on that Sunday.
Doesn't make him a bad guy or somebody that I wish to see fail from here on out. It makes him somebody who didn't dig deep enough when it mattered the most. He made a bad decision most of all on not trying longer through the game to give it a go.
I don't think he will ever recover in Chicago. Best of luck in another city. Sincerely.
I'm done on this thread unless somebody makes a single good point in disagreement.
Arent they saying he hurt it first series second qtr?
Posted:
#90
[Quote: Originally Posted by depeche2] I have slightly different take that I haven't heard anyone hit on....
Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in, he pleads with Lovie, begs his way back in, beats his chest, whatever...and then proceeds to play like a guy who has a knee injury....can't run, can't plant, can't move laterally, can't avoid the rush and he fails miserably -- 3 picks, a bunch of sacks, he's hobbling all over, can't scramble, can't avoid the rush, throwing off his back foot, just a mess. But he plays. The whole way. Bears lose 28-0.
And then he next day we find out he had the MCL tear, he knew it, the coaches knew it, but he wanted to play through it anyway.
Now, these same dopes who are criticizing him now for coming out of the game...would they have lauded him for staying in? Or, would they have said that Cutler was being selfish, that only cares about himself, that he wanted to play more than he wanted his team to win, that he thinks he's above the team, etc etc?
Because had he stayed in, that almost certainly would have been the scenario. He struggled before he got injured. GB sees him hobbling and they'd have been all over him like maggots on shit. Or, if it's close and he needs to run down the field in a last minute hurry up scenario and can't...how brave is that really? Is it brave or or is selfish? Seems like a pretty fine line, at the very least. Those who think they are smart enough to draw that line while eating cheetos on their couch and watching Fox's crappy coverage are morons.
[/Quote
Posted:
#91
Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:
This.
The haters are full of shit. I understand the whole body language thing and how people like to judge appearances, but to me that's mostly just idiots who want something to talk about and need to read into everything. Being a leader is not about making sure you're perceived a certain way by the media or even the fans. The whole Bears team kind of fed into and off of the media hates us mantra and us and against the world and Cutler really was just part of that. Urlacher is the same way. But I saw no evidence whatsoever that his teammates themselves or the coaches had any issue whatsoever with Cutlers' leadership the entire season. None. The O-Line wasn't great, but they got better and worked their asses off to get better at protecting him. And yeah they didn't win the Super Bowl, but they did make the Final 4 which something 28 other teams and QB's can't say.
Cutler is an easy target and some people just love to shoot incessantly at easy targets. Says more about them than about Cutler.
This.
The haters are full of shit. I understand the whole body language thing and how people like to judge appearances, but to me that's mostly just idiots who want something to talk about and need to read into everything. Being a leader is not about making sure you're perceived a certain way by the media or even the fans. The whole Bears team kind of fed into and off of the media hates us mantra and us and against the world and Cutler really was just part of that. Urlacher is the same way. But I saw no evidence whatsoever that his teammates themselves or the coaches had any issue whatsoever with Cutlers' leadership the entire season. None. The O-Line wasn't great, but they got better and worked their asses off to get better at protecting him. And yeah they didn't win the Super Bowl, but they did make the Final 4 which something 28 other teams and QB's can't say.
Cutler is an easy target and some people just love to shoot incessantly at easy targets. Says more about them than about Cutler.
You are obviously a Bears and Cutler fan, I respect that, I'm from Denver so my hatred for Cutler is understood. The real problem here is that things don't add up.
1. Lovie Smith tells the media after the game that they looked at him at halftime and decided he couldn't go, yet Cutler started the third quarter and only threw one pass before being pulled.
2. I've watched tape of the game 5 times now and NOT ONCE does Cutler grab at his knee after any play, nor does he make any reference that his knee his hurting during the game, other than when he's on the sideline. The MRI came back to show that he did have a slight MCL tear, so I'm not doubting that he was injured, what I'm doubting is that this happened in the game at all. While I'm not a doctor, I've heard plenty of NFL guys thsi week say that with this type of injury, ice needs to be applied immediately to help reduce swelling and a brace then needs to be put on the knee for stabalization, neither happened. Things just don't add up. Look at Big Ben when he took that charlie horse to the side of the leg on the opening drive, he grabbed at his leg for the next 2-3 series, he was in pain, Cutler didn't show that.
3. I don't care about all of the tweeting by other athletes, but being here in Denver there is a great article about how Lindsey Vonn, one of the greatest skiiers in the world right now won the downhill a couple of weeks ago with the SAME INJURY. Skiing is all in the knees, how can she compete in a sport that is so brutal on the knees and he can't go back in? Answer - He didn't want to go back in.
4. As far as teammates having his back, Woody Paige was at the game on Sunday and wrote in his column this morning that Urlacher was yelling at Cutler on the sidelines after Todd Collins came in to get back in the game. Caleb Hanie was on a sports radio show last night and said the cameras "must not have picked up Jay helping him", yet he couldn't remember exaclty what Jay said to help him.
Cutler may not be "soft" in terms of playing with injuries, but he is "soft" when it comes to heart/passion for the game. The guy is walking up and down the stairs with his girlfriend after the game, he was spotted walking up and down Beverly Hills with her while she shopped yesterday. I feel bad for Bears fans like you, because one day you will wake up and realize, you have more passion for your team than Cutler does for the game itself.
Posted:
#92
Quote Originally Posted by DOVJAK:
I agree it seems no matter what Cutler did he would have been criticized.But to the post above there is no question Lovie would not let him go back in.Another thing what if he comes back in and totally tears up his knee and is career ending then everyone would say why did he stay in.It seems because of Cutlers arrogance over the years and attitude he is taking a alot of unwarranted flack on this.
Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:
I have slightly different take that I haven't heard anyone hit on....
Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in, he pleads with Lovie, begs his way back in, beats his chest, whatever...and then proceeds to play like a guy who has a knee injury....can't run, can't plant, can't move laterally, can't avoid the rush and he fails miserably -- 3 picks, a bunch of sacks, he's hobbling all over, can't scramble, can't avoid the rush, throwing off his back foot, just a mess. But he plays. The whole way. Bears lose 28-0.
And then he next day we find out he had the MCL tear, he knew it, the coaches knew it, but he wanted to play through it anyway.
Now, these same dopes who are criticizing him now for coming out of the game...would they have lauded him for staying in? Or, would they have said that Cutler was being selfish, that only cares about himself, that he wanted to play more than he wanted his team to win, that he thinks he's above the team, etc etc?
Because had he stayed in, that almost certainly would have been the scenario. He struggled before he got injured. GB sees him hobbling and they'd have been all over him like maggots on shit. Or, if it's close and he needs to run down the field in a last minute hurry up scenario and can't...how brave is that really? Is it brave or or is selfish? Seems like a pretty fine line, at the very least. Those who think they are smart enough to draw that line while eating cheetos on their couch and watching Fox's crappy coverage are morons.
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I have slightly different take that I haven't heard anyone hit on....
Let's say after having the knee injury Cutler comes back out at halftime and stays in, he pleads with Lovie, begs his way back in, beats his chest, whatever...and then proceeds to play like a guy who has a knee injury....can't run, can't plant, can't move laterally, can't avoid the rush and he fails miserably -- 3 picks, a bunch of sacks, he's hobbling all over, can't scramble, can't avoid the rush, throwing off his back foot, just a mess. But he plays. The whole way. Bears lose 28-0.
And then he next day we find out he had the MCL tear, he knew it, the coaches knew it, but he wanted to play through it anyway.
Now, these same dopes who are criticizing him now for coming out of the game...would they have lauded him for staying in? Or, would they have said that Cutler was being selfish, that only cares about himself, that he wanted to play more than he wanted his team to win, that he thinks he's above the team, etc etc?
Because had he stayed in, that almost certainly would have been the scenario. He struggled before he got injured. GB sees him hobbling and they'd have been all over him like maggots on shit. Or, if it's close and he needs to run down the field in a last minute hurry up scenario and can't...how brave is that really? Is it brave or or is selfish? Seems like a pretty fine line, at the very least. Those who think they are smart enough to draw that line while eating cheetos on their couch and watching Fox's crappy coverage are morons.
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I agree it seems no matter what Cutler did he would have been criticized.But to the post above there is no question Lovie would not let him go back in.Another thing what if he comes back in and totally tears up his knee and is career ending then everyone would say why did he stay in.It seems because of Cutlers arrogance over the years and attitude he is taking a alot of unwarranted flack on this.
Posted:
#93
Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman17:
You are obviously a Bears and Cutler fan, I respect that, I'm from Denver so my hatred for Cutler is understood. The real problem here is that things don't add up.
1. Lovie Smith tells the media after the game that they looked at him at halftime and decided he couldn't go, yet Cutler started the third quarter and only threw one pass before being pulled.
Because Cutler pleaded with Lovie to give him a shot. He got his shot, he couldn't perform, he was pulled.
2. I've watched tape of the game 5 times now and NOT ONCE does Cutler grab at his knee after any play, nor does he make any reference that his knee his hurting during the game, other than when he's on the sideline. The MRI came back to show that he did have a slight MCL tear, so I'm not doubting that he was injured, what I'm doubting is that this happened in the game at all. While I'm not a doctor, I've heard plenty of NFL guys thsi week say that with this type of injury, ice needs to be applied immediately to help reduce swelling and a brace then needs to be put on the knee for stabalization, neither happened. Things just don't add up. Look at Big Ben when he took that charlie horse to the side of the leg on the opening drive, he grabbed at his leg for the next 2-3 series, he was in pain, Cutler didn't show that.
For one, Cutler has never shown any signs of pain before this even with the ass kicking he took this year. For two, he did indicate there was an injury with 4:06 left in the 2nd. After taking a hit he immediately grabbed behind his knee, got up and walked slowly around the end zone, then stopped and looked down at his knee for 3-5 seconds.
3. I don't care about all of the tweeting by other athletes, but being here in Denver there is a great article about how Lindsey Vonn, one of the greatest skiiers in the world right now won the downhill a couple of weeks ago with the SAME INJURY. Skiing is all in the knees, how can she compete in a sport that is so brutal on the knees and he can't go back in? Answer - He didn't want to go back in.
All injuries are different for each individual. Why couldn't Hines Ward, LaDanian Tomlinson, Troy Polamalu, Brandon Jacobs, Trent Dilfer, and countless others not go back in with the same injury? Did they all not want to go back in either?
4. As far as teammates having his back, Woody Paige was at the game on Sunday and wrote in his column this morning that Urlacher was yelling at Cutler on the sidelines after Todd Collins came in to get back in the game. Caleb Hanie was on a sports radio show last night and said the cameras "must not have picked up Jay helping him", yet he couldn't remember exaclty what Jay said to help him.
Urlacher wanted him back in, so what? I'm sure the whole team wanted him in. He couldn't go. There's nothing else to it. And Hanie not remembering what he said to him isn't true because I've heard/read about 5 different Hanie interviews since Monday and he says the same thing in every one of them. Something about trusting his line and using his feet if he has to. Then after the TD Jay said great job, now go back out there and get another one.
Cutler may not be "soft" in terms of playing with injuries, but he is "soft" when it comes to heart/passion for the game. The guy is walking up and down the stairs with his girlfriend after the game, he was spotted walking up and down Beverly Hills with her while she shopped yesterday. I feel bad for Bears fans like you, because one day you will wake up and realize, you have more passion for your team than Cutler does for the game itself.
Who fucking cares about this non story? Jay Cutler is allowed to go out dinner and Jay Cutler is allowed to walk. An MRI injury like this doesn't prevent him from walking up stairs or standing. It prevents him from playing QB. Ask a doctor. This is just another way to shit on Cutler when everything else has been proven wrong with facts and the meatheads that don't know any better are buying into it.
And Cutler has plenty of passion for the game.
Posted:
#94
Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman17:
You are obviously a Bears and Cutler fan, I respect that, I'm from Denver so my hatred for Cutler is understood. The real problem here is that things don't add up.
1. Lovie Smith tells the media after the game that they looked at him at halftime and decided he couldn't go, yet Cutler started the third quarter and only threw one pass before being pulled.
2. I've watched tape of the game 5 times now and NOT ONCE does Cutler grab at his knee after any play, nor does he make any reference that his knee his hurting during the game, other than when he's on the sideline. The MRI came back to show that he did have a slight MCL tear, so I'm not doubting that he was injured, what I'm doubting is that this happened in the game at all. While I'm not a doctor, I've heard plenty of NFL guys thsi week say that with this type of injury, ice needs to be applied immediately to help reduce swelling and a brace then needs to be put on the knee for stabalization, neither happened. Things just don't add up. Look at Big Ben when he took that charlie horse to the side of the leg on the opening drive, he grabbed at his leg for the next 2-3 series, he was in pain, Cutler didn't show that.
3. I don't care about all of the tweeting by other athletes, but being here in Denver there is a great article about how Lindsey Vonn, one of the greatest skiiers in the world right now won the downhill a couple of weeks ago with the SAME INJURY. Skiing is all in the knees, how can she compete in a sport that is so brutal on the knees and he can't go back in? Answer - He didn't want to go back in.
4. As far as teammates having his back, Woody Paige was at the game on Sunday and wrote in his column this morning that Urlacher was yelling at Cutler on the sidelines after Todd Collins came in to get back in the game. Caleb Hanie was on a sports radio show last night and said the cameras "must not have picked up Jay helping him", yet he couldn't remember exaclty what Jay said to help him.
Cutler may not be "soft" in terms of playing with injuries, but he is "soft" when it comes to heart/passion for the game. The guy is walking up and down the stairs with his girlfriend after the game, he was spotted walking up and down Beverly Hills with her while she shopped yesterday. I feel bad for Bears fans like you, because one day you will wake up and realize, you have more passion for your team than Cutler does for the game itself.
How do you know his heart/passion for the game? Based on what? Because he went to a restaurant and went shopping? As a Denver fan I should assume you know he played through almost an entire season in Denver with undiagnosed Type 1 diabetes which caused him to lose 30 pounds and didn't miss a game. From everything I hear and from what Martz says he was one of the hardest workers in terms of learning the new system and coming in early, staying late, etc. How do you know he lacks passion for the game...because you don't like his facial expressions?
The only thing I'll say otherwise is there is some truth that perception is reality and if so many people something one way, even if it's not true, it can become reality and effect things in the future. But from all appearances, his current teammates that know him best and need to be with him, are. Of course I could see issues in the future with new guys coming in that don't know him but have a negative perception from this episode.
Posted:
#95
Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman17:
2. I've watched tape of the game 5 times now and NOT ONCE does Cutler grab at his knee after any play, nor does he make any reference that his knee his hurting during the game, other than when he's on the sideline. The MRI came back to show that he did have a slight MCL tear, so I'm not doubting that he was injured, what I'm doubting is that this happened in the game at all. While I'm not a doctor, I've heard plenty of NFL guys thsi week say that with this type of injury, ice needs to be applied immediately to help reduce swelling and a brace then needs to be put on the knee for stabalization, neither happened. Things just don't add up. Look at Big Ben when he took that charlie horse to the side of the leg on the opening drive, he grabbed at his leg for the next 2-3 series, he was in pain, Cutler didn't show that.
Oh ya, not only does he clearly show something at the 4:06 mark of the 2nd but this guy believes he got hurt on the 1st play of the 2nd Quarter. Pretty good video
Posted:
#96
Fair arguments, stuff we will just disagree about, I don't have the passion for Cutler or the Bears you do. But the two that aren't true.
"Because Cutler pleaded with Lovie to give him a shot. He got his shot, he couldn't perform, he was pulled."
Cutler's exact quote "He kinda pulled me". It's only an opinion, so don't blow your shit here, but Cutler didn't want to play in that game. Kinda pulled me? If he was "kinda pulled" and Urlacher was yelling at him to get back in the game, he wasn't pulled, he took himself out. Lovie Smith, isn't a big enough idiot to let Todd Collins play in a championship game, if Cutler could still play and wanted to play.
My whole point with the above quote in the first place was that Lovie said "We decided at halftime that Jay couldn't play". Him playing in the 3rd quarter is playing, the two statements don't add up.
"And Cutler has plenty of passion for the game."
The only thing I can say to this is that I used to be like you and loved Cutler when he played for the Broncos. I used to hate Phillip Rivers because he called out Cutler saying that he was arrogant, bitched a lot and didn't have the passion to be a winner. Sadly, Phillip Rivers was right and it will probably take another couple years of Cutler grabbing his shoulder pads with both hands, head down moping around until you realize what a disaster this guy is. Talent only goes so far in the NFL, immaturity will be his downfall. Some people just don't get it and he doesn't get it, hopefully Chicago has a new QB in place by the time everyone realizes this.
Posted:
#97
Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:
How do you know his heart/passion for the game? Based on what? Because he went to a restaurant and went shopping? As a Denver fan I should assume you know he played through almost an entire season in Denver with undiagnosed Type 1 diabetes which caused him to lose 30 pounds and didn't miss a game. From everything I hear and from what Martz says he was one of the hardest workers in terms of learning the new system and coming in early, staying late, etc. How do you know he lacks passion for the game...because you don't like his facial expressions?
The only thing I'll say otherwise is there is some truth that perception is reality and if so many people something one way, even if it's not true, it can become reality and effect things in the future. But from all appearances, his current teammates that know him best and need to be with him, are. Of course I could see issues in the future with new guys coming in that don't know him but have a negative perception from this episode.
How do you know his heart/passion for the game? Based on what? Because he went to a restaurant and went shopping? As a Denver fan I should assume you know he played through almost an entire season in Denver with undiagnosed Type 1 diabetes which caused him to lose 30 pounds and didn't miss a game. From everything I hear and from what Martz says he was one of the hardest workers in terms of learning the new system and coming in early, staying late, etc. How do you know he lacks passion for the game...because you don't like his facial expressions?
The only thing I'll say otherwise is there is some truth that perception is reality and if so many people something one way, even if it's not true, it can become reality and effect things in the future. But from all appearances, his current teammates that know him best and need to be with him, are. Of course I could see issues in the future with new guys coming in that don't know him but have a negative perception from this episode.
His diabetes story was very well documented in Denver, as was the way he fought to get it treated and helped kids and young adults suffering with the same problem.
I'm not piling on Cutler here and making up stories, but also documented were his nightlife habits. The guy was at the bar every night, not just "out having fun" but drinking until late in the night. At the time Cutler was here, I was a valet in Denver and personally saw him on multiple occasions stumbling out of clubs with teammates. As a diabetic myself, I know the terrible effects drinking heavily has on a diabetic. I have a few myself, but can't take it to the limit, because my blood sugar can go through the roof and put me in a diabetic coma while I'm passed out drunk.
Maybe he's grown up in that aspect and doesn't drink in Chicago like he used to in Denver. I hope thats the case.
As far as him not having passion, it's obviously a personal opinion which I've formulated through the media's portryal of him while he was in Denver. I believe the stories, but again that's my choice. I just ask you what other "leader" of a team have you seen with his type of body language? I can't name one. I call him a leader because the quarterback should be a leader of a team, even though Urlacher is arguably the leader of that team. Every rebuttle I hear to people calling out his passoin or leadership relates back to saying "what, because of his demeanor, he's not passionate?" Much like in everyday life, we tend to think people who are shy are quiet and people who are loud are outgoing, based on perceptions that we've learned. I've learned that in sports, people show little emotion and can be a leader (Peyton Manning), but I've yet to see someone look so dissinterested and have such poor body language be a leader in any sport. So yes, that is my opinion but again it is based on everyday perceptions, I'm just astonished that so many people come to his defense about his leadership, yet everything he exudes through is body language points toward the negative.
Posted:
#98
"Cutler's exact quote "He kinda pulled me". It's only an opinion, so
don't blow your shit here, but Cutler didn't want to play in that game.
Kinda pulled me? If he was "kinda pulled" and Urlacher was yelling at
him to get back in the game, he wasn't pulled, he took himself out.
Lovie Smith, isn't a big enough idiot to let Todd Collins play in a
championship game, if Cutler could still play and wanted to play. "
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The bolded part is key there. Being on the field and actually performing his job effectively are two completely different things. He was ineffective because of the injury so he really couldn't play. I don't know about this Urlacher thing. I've probably listened to more radio, watched more tv, and read more articles than anybody on this story and this is the first I'm hearing of it. If it's from Paige and Paige only though I can't seriously consider it to have any meaning. It's the same if it came from Dilfer. These guys hate Cutler, they love what's happening to him, and they will do anything to contribute to the negativity that's going on. Just like the walking the stairs article you brought up. It's shouldn't even be close to being a story. Yet someone makes it a story and others buy into it like it actually has meaning.
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"I used to hate Phillip Rivers because he called out Cutler saying that he was arrogant, bitched a lot and didn't have the passion to be a winner. Sadly, Phillip Rivers was right"
How was Phillip Rivers right? Cutler's already been to a the conference championship in his 4th year. Since he hasn't won yet that means he'll never be a winner? Tell me again, in Rivers' 5 years how many superbowls has he won let alone been to? Same as Cutler right? I guess he'll never be a winner either. By the way, Rivers also said Cutler is the toughest guy he's ever played against.
Posted:
#99
Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Holt:
"Cutler's exact quote "He kinda pulled me". It's only an opinion, so don't blow your shit here, but Cutler didn't want to play in that game. Kinda pulled me? If he was "kinda pulled" and Urlacher was yelling at him to get back in the game, he wasn't pulled, he took himself out. Lovie Smith, isn't a big enough idiot to let Todd Collins play in a championship game, if Cutler could still play and wanted to play. "
"Cutler's exact quote "He kinda pulled me". It's only an opinion, so don't blow your shit here, but Cutler didn't want to play in that game. Kinda pulled me? If he was "kinda pulled" and Urlacher was yelling at him to get back in the game, he wasn't pulled, he took himself out. Lovie Smith, isn't a big enough idiot to let Todd Collins play in a championship game, if Cutler could still play and wanted to play. "
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The bolded part is key there. Being on the field and actually performing his job effectively are two completely different things. He was ineffective because of the injury so he really couldn't play. I don't know about this Urlacher thing. I've probably listened to more radio, watched more tv, and read more articles than anybody on this story and this is the first I'm hearing of it. If it's from Paige and Paige only though I can't seriously consider it to have any meaning. It's the same if it came from Dilfer. These guys hate Cutler, they love what's happening to him, and they will do anything to contribute to the negativity that's going on. Just like the walking the stairs article you brought up. It's shouldn't even be close to being a story. Yet someone makes it a story and others buy into it like it actually has meaning.
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"I used to hate Phillip Rivers because he called out Cutler saying that he was arrogant, bitched a lot and didn't have the passion to be a winner. Sadly, Phillip Rivers was right"
How was Phillip Rivers right? Cutler's already been to a the conference championship in his 4th year. Since he hasn't won yet that means he'll never be a winner? Tell me again, in Rivers' 5 years how many superbowls has he won let alone been to? Same as Cutler right? I guess he'll never be a winner either. By the way, Rivers also said Cutler is the toughest guy he's ever played against.
You are correct, they have been to the same amount 0. However, they both have been to a conference championship game. One played with a torn ACL, the other left after halftime, losing with the game still within reach.
Arguments can be made on both sides about whether or not he should have been in there and if the injury was serious enough to keep him from playing effectively, why was his only "treatment" on the sidelines riding a bike? What if Hanie led them back and they won and went to the Super Bowl, wouldn't a medical staff want to take every possible measure to try and get him ready for the Super Bowl?
As far as the media, a lot of it is he said/she said and I understand that. But Paige wasn't critical of Cutler until he started calling out Pat Bowlen, in fact he thought McDaniels would be gone in 2 years if he got rid of Cutler, which was dead on.
We will just have to agree to disagree that his mental toughness is the real thing that everyone is questioning. I question it based on other athletes with injuires and his body language, hopefully for the Bears sake I'm wrong.
Posted:
#100
Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman17:
You are correct, they have been to the same amount 0. However, they both have been to a conference championship game. One played with a torn ACL, the other left after halftime, losing with the game still within reach.
Arguments can be made on both sides about whether or not he should have been in there and if the injury was serious enough to keep him from playing effectively, why was his only "treatment" on the sidelines riding a bike? What if Hanie led them back and they won and went to the Super Bowl, wouldn't a medical staff want to take every possible measure to try and get him ready for the Super Bowl?
As far as the media, a lot of it is he said/she said and I understand that. But Paige wasn't critical of Cutler until he started calling out Pat Bowlen, in fact he thought McDaniels would be gone in 2 years if he got rid of Cutler, which was dead on.
We will just have to agree to disagree that his mental toughness is the real thing that everyone is questioning. I question it based on other athletes with injuires and his body language, hopefully for the Bears sake I'm wrong.
Rivers played the FOLLOWING game with the injury. He got injured DURING the prior game, and then took the bench as he watched from the sidelines as Billy Volek led them to victory. The equivalent would have been had the Bears won, whether Cutler would then have played in the SB. Facts are stubborn things.
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