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All Forums | NFL Betting Forum

How Good Are The Linemakers In The NFL?

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bknutz
Greyhound
cts99
Dawnmarie
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«First Previous 123 Next Last»
 
bknutz
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Posted: Jul. 5, 2011 - 6:06 PM ET #26

on the other side, dogs covered 133 games and won 92 for a percentage of 69%....It makes me wonder that if you REALLY like a dog, maybe it's better taking a shot on the money line as versus the points? This is taking into consideration that the lines are not really that close at the end of the day. Better value?
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on the other side, dogs covered 133 games and won 92 for a percentage of 69%....It makes me wonder that if you REALLY like a dog, maybe it's better taking a shot on the money line as versus the points? This is taking into consideration that the lines are not really that close at the end of the day. Better value?
 
Greyhound
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Posted: Jul. 18, 2011 - 2:18 PM ET #27

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cts99
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Posted: Jul. 18, 2011 - 3:49 PM ET #28

1st off the final score of the game really does not matter to the the linesmaker. There job is to post a number to try to get equal action for the casinos. LVSC set there lines and them send to the casinos that buy there service if the casinos were not making money this company would be out of the game.Talk to most books they will tell you that most players lose betting the nfl. You almost have to win 56 or 57 % to make a profit betting the nfl and if you bet small your playing for the action not money. I personally do a lot better betting the nfl,but i play overs almost 95% of the time. every season there are more and more new players,so the books are in good shape.The key to gambling is simple win more than you lose and save your winning for the bumps in the road.

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1st off the final score of the game really does not matter to the the linesmaker. There job is to post a number to try to get equal action for the casinos. LVSC set there lines and them send to the casinos that buy there service if the casinos were not making money this company would be out of the game.Talk to most books they will tell you that most players lose betting the nfl. You almost have to win 56 or 57 % to make a profit betting the nfl and if you bet small your playing for the action not money. I personally do a lot better betting the nfl,but i play overs almost 95% of the time. every season there are more and more new players,so the books are in good shape.The key to gambling is simple win more than you lose and save your winning for the bumps in the road.

 
Dawnmarie
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Posted: Jul. 20, 2011 - 12:40 PM ET #29

THe Vegas lines makers are good because of the reacords they have of JOE and Jane Public !

They Know us better than we know ourseleves !

Every final spread in lined games like Football and Baskets is adjusted to public perception !

some spreads move 2 - 3 points and creates middling opportunities for many sharp players !

It's truly amazing tho that the actual % of time you lose to a spraed is actually the same % that lines makers hit within 3 points !

IF you have records from just past 3 years in NFL go back and look at every favorite who won a game but didnt cover !

esapecially the MNF games that rule appllies BET the team to win the game NOT lose and cover the spread !

average per year of favs not covering spreads in the 16 MNF games is 3 per year last season only one  MNF favs did not cover spreads !

that one was saints @ San Fran in week 2  omg 1 cover dog out of 16 MNF games !

YES i do not count the 1st week MNF DH only the original 16 reg MNF games !

quote cts99 "The key to gambling is simple win more than you lose and save your winning for the bumps in the road."

the rest of your post was fine but theres morte to winning MONEY or should i say making MONEY bettng sports than this !

 

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THe Vegas lines makers are good because of the reacords they have of JOE and Jane Public !

They Know us better than we know ourseleves !

Every final spread in lined games like Football and Baskets is adjusted to public perception !

some spreads move 2 - 3 points and creates middling opportunities for many sharp players !

It's truly amazing tho that the actual % of time you lose to a spraed is actually the same % that lines makers hit within 3 points !

IF you have records from just past 3 years in NFL go back and look at every favorite who won a game but didnt cover !

esapecially the MNF games that rule appllies BET the team to win the game NOT lose and cover the spread !

average per year of favs not covering spreads in the 16 MNF games is 3 per year last season only one  MNF favs did not cover spreads !

that one was saints @ San Fran in week 2  omg 1 cover dog out of 16 MNF games !

YES i do not count the 1st week MNF DH only the original 16 reg MNF games !

quote cts99 "The key to gambling is simple win more than you lose and save your winning for the bumps in the road."

the rest of your post was fine but theres morte to winning MONEY or should i say making MONEY bettng sports than this !

 

 
bknutz
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Posted: Jul. 20, 2011 - 1:27 PM ET #30

Quote Originally Posted by cts99:

1st off the final score of the game really does not matter to the the linesmaker. There job is to post a number to try to get equal action for the casinos.



The OP posted another thread that went into this "theory". It doesn't pan out. Lines don't act like traditional markets, and in my experience as a line mover it makes too much sense when you read an expert analyze it from this perspective. I admit that I for the longest time thought the same thing; that the book wants even money on both sides. FARSE. Most lines don't move that much ( I believe it averages a half point per game). Yet money keeps coming in on the favorite side 60/40 on average. Books will lose some games big doing this, but win other games big. Here is the catch, over the course of a season, it means a big profit because less than 50% of the favorites cover. Recap: 60% of the money, with less than 50% cover. That is a significantly better profit than trying get even money and walk with the vig. Vegas takes advantage of gambler tendencies to bet the favorite. The more favorite money they get, the better their profits.
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Quote Originally Posted by cts99:

1st off the final score of the game really does not matter to the the linesmaker. There job is to post a number to try to get equal action for the casinos.



The OP posted another thread that went into this "theory". It doesn't pan out. Lines don't act like traditional markets, and in my experience as a line mover it makes too much sense when you read an expert analyze it from this perspective. I admit that I for the longest time thought the same thing; that the book wants even money on both sides. FARSE. Most lines don't move that much ( I believe it averages a half point per game). Yet money keeps coming in on the favorite side 60/40 on average. Books will lose some games big doing this, but win other games big. Here is the catch, over the course of a season, it means a big profit because less than 50% of the favorites cover. Recap: 60% of the money, with less than 50% cover. That is a significantly better profit than trying get even money and walk with the vig. Vegas takes advantage of gambler tendencies to bet the favorite. The more favorite money they get, the better their profits.
 
bknutz
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Posted: Jul. 20, 2011 - 1:31 PM ET #31

Actually, the link on the "theory" is in this same thread. Not from the OP, but another poster. Good read.
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Actually, the link on the "theory" is in this same thread. Not from the OP, but another poster. Good read.
 
canovsp
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Posted: Jul. 20, 2011 - 3:25 PM ET #32

Good point Nutz. I've noticed that most people do bet faves. Check the consensus picks here on Covers. You can't really tell with MLB because of the ML but when it's football or basketball season you see the faves get the most action (college and pro). I also think people have a tendency to bet the over as opposed to betting the under in every sport (Football, basketball, and baseball). Anyone else notice that.

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Good point Nutz. I've noticed that most people do bet faves. Check the consensus picks here on Covers. You can't really tell with MLB because of the ML but when it's football or basketball season you see the faves get the most action (college and pro). I also think people have a tendency to bet the over as opposed to betting the under in every sport (Football, basketball, and baseball). Anyone else notice that.

 
Hugh_Jorgan
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Posted: Jul. 20, 2011 - 9:59 PM ET #33

Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmarie:

THe Vegas lines makers are good because of the reacords they have of JOE and Jane Public !

They Know us better than we know ourseleves !

Every final spread in lined games like Football and Baskets is adjusted to public perception !

some spreads move 2 - 3 points and creates middling opportunities for many sharp players !

It's truly amazing tho that the actual % of time you lose to a spraed is actually the same % that lines makers hit within 3 points !

IF you have records from just past 3 years in NFL go back and look at every favorite who won a game but didnt cover !

esapecially the MNF games that rule appllies BET the team to win the game NOT lose and cover the spread !

average per year of favs not covering spreads in the 16 MNF games is 3 per year last season only one  MNF favs did not cover spreads !

that one was saints @ San Fran in week 2  omg 1 cover dog out of 16 MNF games !

YES i do not count the 1st week MNF DH only the original 16 reg MNF games !

quote cts99 "The key to gambling is simple win more than you lose and save your winning for the bumps in the road."

the rest of your post was fine but theres morte to winning MONEY or should i say making MONEY bettng sports than this !

I can't believe this asshole is still allowed to post here.

WTF mods … how many users odes this site need?!?!? 


bigreds daddy
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Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmarie:

THe Vegas lines makers are good because of the reacords they have of JOE and Jane Public !

They Know us better than we know ourseleves !

Every final spread in lined games like Football and Baskets is adjusted to public perception !

some spreads move 2 - 3 points and creates middling opportunities for many sharp players !

It's truly amazing tho that the actual % of time you lose to a spraed is actually the same % that lines makers hit within 3 points !

IF you have records from just past 3 years in NFL go back and look at every favorite who won a game but didnt cover !

esapecially the MNF games that rule appllies BET the team to win the game NOT lose and cover the spread !

average per year of favs not covering spreads in the 16 MNF games is 3 per year last season only one  MNF favs did not cover spreads !

that one was saints @ San Fran in week 2  omg 1 cover dog out of 16 MNF games !

YES i do not count the 1st week MNF DH only the original 16 reg MNF games !

quote cts99 "The key to gambling is simple win more than you lose and save your winning for the bumps in the road."

the rest of your post was fine but theres morte to winning MONEY or should i say making MONEY bettng sports than this !

I can't believe this asshole is still allowed to post here.

WTF mods … how many users odes this site need?!?!? 


 
Dawnmarie
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Posted: Jul. 26, 2011 - 8:03 PM ET #34

HEY hugh Jorgan 1st off YOU are a joke i saw YOUR videos on YOUTUBE last year and Without a shirt on and that funky hairstyle YOU looked like a Clown and talked like a moron about your Monday morning QB plays after games were over  !

Everything i posted in my post is 100% accurate and proven over the decades !

SO stop calling ME an ASSHOLE because YOU are one too !

Maybe also YOU should learn to spell 1st also before calling another person a name !

 

how many users odes this site need?!?!? 

what is an ODES ???

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HEY hugh Jorgan 1st off YOU are a joke i saw YOUR videos on YOUTUBE last year and Without a shirt on and that funky hairstyle YOU looked like a Clown and talked like a moron about your Monday morning QB plays after games were over  !

Everything i posted in my post is 100% accurate and proven over the decades !

SO stop calling ME an ASSHOLE because YOU are one too !

Maybe also YOU should learn to spell 1st also before calling another person a name !

 

how many users odes this site need?!?!? 

what is an ODES ???

 
Hugh_Jorgan
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Posted: Jul. 31, 2011 - 8:01 PM ET #35

Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmarie:

HEY hugh Jorgan 1st off YOU are a joke i saw YOUR videos on YOUTUBE last year and Without a shirt on and that funky hairstyle YOU looked like a Clown and talked like a moron about your Monday morning QB plays after games were over  !

Everything i posted in my post is 100% accurate and proven over the decades !

SO stop calling ME an ASSHOLE because YOU are one too !

Maybe also YOU should learn to spell 1st also before calling another person a name !

 

how many users odes this site need?!?!? 

what is an ODES ???


At least you admit you're an asshole 

It is highly doubtful you've ever seen me on youtube, as I have no video's posted, although I'm flattered that you are fantasizing about me. Now please stop, you big fucking person.
bigreds daddy
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Quote Originally Posted by Dawnmarie:

HEY hugh Jorgan 1st off YOU are a joke i saw YOUR videos on YOUTUBE last year and Without a shirt on and that funky hairstyle YOU looked like a Clown and talked like a moron about your Monday morning QB plays after games were over  !

Everything i posted in my post is 100% accurate and proven over the decades !

SO stop calling ME an ASSHOLE because YOU are one too !

Maybe also YOU should learn to spell 1st also before calling another person a name !

 

how many users odes this site need?!?!? 

what is an ODES ???


At least you admit you're an asshole 

It is highly doubtful you've ever seen me on youtube, as I have no video's posted, although I'm flattered that you are fantasizing about me. Now please stop, you big fucking person.
 
Skubishack
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Posted: Jul. 31, 2011 - 8:19 PM ET #36

If I win they are good in my opinion... if I lose, they suck.
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If I win they are good in my opinion... if I lose, they suck.
 
GiLmo574
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Posted: Jul. 31, 2011 - 11:42 PM ET #37

Quote Originally Posted by EIGHTYpercent:

It is pretty easy to predict what the lines will ne for a given week in the NFL.

Before the lines are released each week, I examine the game and write in what I think the line for the game will be.

Not to hard to predict about 3 or 4 games exactly right and just miss on a few others. Lines are so tight in the NFL and I give props to the linesmakers.


I do the same exact thing.  


The linemakers DO deserve all the props in the world.

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Quote Originally Posted by EIGHTYpercent:

It is pretty easy to predict what the lines will ne for a given week in the NFL.

Before the lines are released each week, I examine the game and write in what I think the line for the game will be.

Not to hard to predict about 3 or 4 games exactly right and just miss on a few others. Lines are so tight in the NFL and I give props to the linesmakers.


I do the same exact thing.  


The linemakers DO deserve all the props in the world.

 
Ace77
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Posted: Aug. 24, 2011 - 1:15 PM ET #38

Not as good as Cape Blanco
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Not as good as Cape Blanco
 
Greyhound
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Posted: Aug. 24, 2011 - 1:44 PM ET #39

Is this the horse racing forum?   
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Is this the horse racing forum?   
 
txn
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Posted: Aug. 24, 2011 - 2:02 PM ET #40

It's good stuffs Greyhound. Thanks.
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It's good stuffs Greyhound. Thanks.
 
Greyhound
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Posted: Aug. 24, 2011 - 4:12 PM ET #41

I posted this article so I have been keeping track of some things and probably will all season.    


So far in 29 of the 32 preseason games the straight up winner was also the pointspread winner. That's about 91%. Only 3 games has the pointspread changed the result. That goes along with what this article said that you can ignore the pointspread and hit at least 80% of these games if you're on the right side. Cap them as moneylines like in baseball.

As far as how close the pointspreads were to the actual result of the games, here's all the differences so far.


1.0
1.0
1.5
2.0
3.0
4.0
4.0
4.5
4.5
6.5
7.0
7.0
7.5
7.5
8.0
8.0
8.0
9.5
10.0
11.5
11.5
13.5
14.0
15.5
16.0
16.0
18.0
18.5
22.5
22.5
28.0
32.0


That's an average of almost 11 points. The pointspread was off by an average of 11 points per game.


Other stuff...

Road Dogs are 10-19 ATS, Home Favs 19-10 ATS
Road Favs are 2-1 ATS, Home Dogs 1-2 ATS

The Home Team is 23-9 straight up, The Road Team is 9-23




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I posted this article so I have been keeping track of some things and probably will all season.    


So far in 29 of the 32 preseason games the straight up winner was also the pointspread winner. That's about 91%. Only 3 games has the pointspread changed the result. That goes along with what this article said that you can ignore the pointspread and hit at least 80% of these games if you're on the right side. Cap them as moneylines like in baseball.

As far as how close the pointspreads were to the actual result of the games, here's all the differences so far.


1.0
1.0
1.5
2.0
3.0
4.0
4.0
4.5
4.5
6.5
7.0
7.0
7.5
7.5
8.0
8.0
8.0
9.5
10.0
11.5
11.5
13.5
14.0
15.5
16.0
16.0
18.0
18.5
22.5
22.5
28.0
32.0


That's an average of almost 11 points. The pointspread was off by an average of 11 points per game.


Other stuff...

Road Dogs are 10-19 ATS, Home Favs 19-10 ATS
Road Favs are 2-1 ATS, Home Dogs 1-2 ATS

The Home Team is 23-9 straight up, The Road Team is 9-23




 
Ace77
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Posted: Aug. 24, 2011 - 4:45 PM ET #42

Quote Originally Posted by Greyhound:

Is this the horse racing forum?   





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Quote Originally Posted by Greyhound:

Is this the horse racing forum?   





 
165yds
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Posted: Aug. 24, 2011 - 4:55 PM ET #43

What does this tell you about the linesmaker and how to play the NFL? Just pick the winner of the game and you have an excellent chance of being a pointspread winner!


Why don't 10 pt teasers win all the time?

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What does this tell you about the linesmaker and how to play the NFL? Just pick the winner of the game and you have an excellent chance of being a pointspread winner!


Why don't 10 pt teasers win all the time?

 
Greyhound
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Posted: Aug. 30, 2011 - 2:52 PM ET #44

After 3 weeks of preseason, according to my calculations.     


40 of the 48 games the straight up winner was also the pointspread winner.     That's 83%.     There was 1 push on the spread.    Only 7 games that the winner of the game didn't cover the spread. 


Road Dogs are 13-24 ATS,   Home Favs 24-13 ATS

Road Favs are 7-3 ATS,   Home Dogs 3-7 ATS

1 Push ATS


Home Team is 32-16 straight up

Road Team 16-32 straight up


Overs have won 26 games

Unders have won 21 games

1 Push on the Total


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After 3 weeks of preseason, according to my calculations.     


40 of the 48 games the straight up winner was also the pointspread winner.     That's 83%.     There was 1 push on the spread.    Only 7 games that the winner of the game didn't cover the spread. 


Road Dogs are 13-24 ATS,   Home Favs 24-13 ATS

Road Favs are 7-3 ATS,   Home Dogs 3-7 ATS

1 Push ATS


Home Team is 32-16 straight up

Road Team 16-32 straight up


Overs have won 26 games

Unders have won 21 games

1 Push on the Total


 
logicalbetting
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Posted: Aug. 30, 2011 - 3:05 PM ET #45

I think most of you are wrong.

I think that games don't get fixed but Vegas sure does know the outcome of some games.  What I mean by that is , their inside linemakers are sharp and probably once every 5 games they have a strong side or feeling that Team A is going to win tonight.  Remember, they do this for a living, setting lines based on stats etc.  What makes you guys think that they can't pick winners.

How many times have we seen huge money come in on a favorite yet their is reverse line movement?  I know how I feel, I know that I am probably going to get fucked and 99% of the time I do.

But how many times in the same scenario does the line jump 1.5-3pts , lots , which means they think the favorite is going to win .

I know this isn't 100% accurate but most of the time, when Vegas thinks a team is going to win whether it be reverse line movement on a dog or a huge line movement in favor of a favorite, I bet they wint these games most of the time.

Even action , ya for 75% of the games I am sure when their experts tell them, coinflip game BUT after over 20 years of gambling, I tell you that they know who is going to win 25% of the time and make sure they get more money on the opposite side of who they think is going to win.  How do they do this ?  Easy, they decide when they want to move the lines or not.

I hate it when I see NE -4 vs Cleveland at Home and 75% of money is on NE and then the line drops to 3.5 and even 3.  I just don't bet those anymore unless I see a very good capper on Cle to tail if my lean is NE. 

Those of you who say they are trying to get 50 50 money all the time are completely wrong. 

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I think most of you are wrong.

I think that games don't get fixed but Vegas sure does know the outcome of some games.  What I mean by that is , their inside linemakers are sharp and probably once every 5 games they have a strong side or feeling that Team A is going to win tonight.  Remember, they do this for a living, setting lines based on stats etc.  What makes you guys think that they can't pick winners.

How many times have we seen huge money come in on a favorite yet their is reverse line movement?  I know how I feel, I know that I am probably going to get fucked and 99% of the time I do.

But how many times in the same scenario does the line jump 1.5-3pts , lots , which means they think the favorite is going to win .

I know this isn't 100% accurate but most of the time, when Vegas thinks a team is going to win whether it be reverse line movement on a dog or a huge line movement in favor of a favorite, I bet they wint these games most of the time.

Even action , ya for 75% of the games I am sure when their experts tell them, coinflip game BUT after over 20 years of gambling, I tell you that they know who is going to win 25% of the time and make sure they get more money on the opposite side of who they think is going to win.  How do they do this ?  Easy, they decide when they want to move the lines or not.

I hate it when I see NE -4 vs Cleveland at Home and 75% of money is on NE and then the line drops to 3.5 and even 3.  I just don't bet those anymore unless I see a very good capper on Cle to tail if my lean is NE. 

Those of you who say they are trying to get 50 50 money all the time are completely wrong. 

 
Greyhound
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Posted: Aug. 30, 2011 - 3:33 PM ET #46

According to my calculations......

For the 47 games that were not a "Push / Tie" Against The Spread  (ATS) 


Average Winning Margin vs The Spread =  9.9 points

Average Losing Margin vs The Spread = -9.9 points



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According to my calculations......

For the 47 games that were not a "Push / Tie" Against The Spread  (ATS) 


Average Winning Margin vs The Spread =  9.9 points

Average Losing Margin vs The Spread = -9.9 points



 
CallMeBruce
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Posted: Aug. 30, 2011 - 10:48 PM ET #47

Quote Originally Posted by bknutz:

actually, I wouldn't have even run the numbers, but I wanted to break it down team by team for my personal records. You could just go to the trends page and see the fav straight up (175) and the fav ATS (129). 129/175 = 73%

Quote Originally Posted by bknutz:

on the other side, dogs covered 133 games and won 92 for a percentage of 69%....It makes me wonder that if you REALLY like a dog, maybe it's better taking a shot on the money line as versus the points? This is taking into consideration that the lines are not really that close at the end of the day. Better value?

Me confused... should i bet both the Fav and the Dog?
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Quote Originally Posted by bknutz:

actually, I wouldn't have even run the numbers, but I wanted to break it down team by team for my personal records. You could just go to the trends page and see the fav straight up (175) and the fav ATS (129). 129/175 = 73%

Quote Originally Posted by bknutz:

on the other side, dogs covered 133 games and won 92 for a percentage of 69%....It makes me wonder that if you REALLY like a dog, maybe it's better taking a shot on the money line as versus the points? This is taking into consideration that the lines are not really that close at the end of the day. Better value?

Me confused... should i bet both the Fav and the Dog?
 
Blackshirt51
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Posted: Aug. 30, 2011 - 11:21 PM ET #48

Linesmen goal to get 50/50 action on both teams.he dont care about how close final is to his spread.he only wants 50/50 action and theres your answer.biggest misconception in sports betting explained!!

Have a great year!!!!!
your friend black
Good Luck On The Action
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Linesmen goal to get 50/50 action on both teams.he dont care about how close final is to his spread.he only wants 50/50 action and theres your answer.biggest misconception in sports betting explained!!

Have a great year!!!!!
your friend black
 
canovsp
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Posted: Aug. 31, 2011 - 12:21 AM ET #49

Quote Originally Posted by CallMeBruce:


Quote Originally Posted by bknutz:

on the other side, dogs covered 133 games and won 92 for a percentage of 69%....It makes me wonder that if you REALLY like a dog, maybe it's better taking a shot on the money line as versus the points? This is taking into consideration that the lines are not really that close at the end of the day. Better value?

Me confused... should i bet both the Fav and the Dog?

What Nutz is saying is if you think the Dog is going to keep it within the spread why not bet them to win outright on the moneyline. You will make more money.
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Quote Originally Posted by CallMeBruce:


Quote Originally Posted by bknutz:

on the other side, dogs covered 133 games and won 92 for a percentage of 69%....It makes me wonder that if you REALLY like a dog, maybe it's better taking a shot on the money line as versus the points? This is taking into consideration that the lines are not really that close at the end of the day. Better value?

Me confused... should i bet both the Fav and the Dog?

What Nutz is saying is if you think the Dog is going to keep it within the spread why not bet them to win outright on the moneyline. You will make more money.
 
 
tjohnsont
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Posted: Aug. 31, 2011 - 12:34 PM ET #50

Quote Originally Posted by bknutz:

actually, I wouldn't have even run the numbers, but I wanted to break it down team by team for my personal records. You could just go to the trends page and see the fav straight up (175) and the fav ATS (129). 129/175 = 73%

 

Based on your stats, the favored wins and covers only 43% of the time.   129/300

It's easy to pick who's gonna win- just pick the favored team but if you take the favored all the time then you will have a losing season.  Even if you played ml. 

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Quote Originally Posted by bknutz:

actually, I wouldn't have even run the numbers, but I wanted to break it down team by team for my personal records. You could just go to the trends page and see the fav straight up (175) and the fav ATS (129). 129/175 = 73%

 

Based on your stats, the favored wins and covers only 43% of the time.   129/300

It's easy to pick who's gonna win- just pick the favored team but if you take the favored all the time then you will have a losing season.  Even if you played ml. 

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