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Belichick Genius?? Someone explain

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Posted: #51

Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24:

Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @theMatrix24   Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: belichick went 11-5 with matt cassel. He made the playoffs last year with a rookie qb You do understand that they did NOT make the playoffs that year AND that they also LOST FIVE MORE games than they did the year before with the same personnel EXCEPT for Brady?  A HUGE dropoff. I have never seen this as a good example of his coaching and can even see it as a case against it. bruh you just said it. if brady is the goat 11 wins is a huge drop off? lol

Correct.  Without Brady they ONLY won 11 games -- basically the same team won 16 the year before.  It is just a subset of the dropoff the Patriots show without Brady.  And the dropoff Belichick has without Brady as his QB.

In order to prove to a lot of folks he is 'legendary' he has to show he can win without Brady.  That may be partially why Brady left -- to show he could do it, etc. 

 
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Posted: #52

Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @theMatrix24   Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: belichick went 11-5 with matt cassel. He made the playoffs last year with a rookie qb You do understand that they did NOT make the playoffs that year AND that they also LOST FIVE MORE games than they did the year before with the same personnel EXCEPT for Brady?  A HUGE dropoff. I have never seen this as a good example of his coaching and can even see it as a case against it. bruh you just said it. if brady is the goat 11 wins is a huge drop off? lol Correct.  Without Brady they ONLY won 11 games -- basically the same team won 16 the year before.  It is just a subset of the dropoff the Patriots show without Brady.  And the dropoff Belichick has without Brady as his QB. In order to prove to a lot of folks he is 'legendary' he has to show he can win without Brady.  That may be partially why Brady left -- to show he could do it, etc.
well aaron rodgers thinks he's the greatest ever. does that help? 

 
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Posted: #53

@Raiders22

 Belichick doesnt have to prove jack.....greatest NFL football coach of all time..BAR NONE!

 
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Posted: #54

Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24:

Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @theMatrix24   Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: belichick went 11-5 with matt cassel. He made the playoffs last year with a rookie qb You do understand that they did NOT make the playoffs that year AND that they also LOST FIVE MORE games than they did the year before with the same personnel EXCEPT for Brady?  A HUGE dropoff. I have never seen this as a good example of his coaching and can even see it as a case against it. bruh you just said it. if brady is the goat 11 wins is a huge drop off? lol Correct.  Without Brady they ONLY won 11 games -- basically the same team won 16 the year before.  It is just a subset of the dropoff the Patriots show without Brady.  And the dropoff Belichick has without Brady as his QB. In order to prove to a lot of folks he is 'legendary' he has to show he can win without Brady.  That may be partially why Brady left -- to show he could do it, etc. well aaron rodgers thinks he's the greatest ever. does that help?

Sure, of course it does.  A lot of folks feel that way.  But a lot of folks do not.  It always helps to have great QBs and football experts think highly of you.  But you will always have others that say Phil Jackson won because he had MJ and Kobe.  So, you will have some say Belichick won mostly when he had Brady.

There are some coaches that nearly everyone agrees are 'legendary' -- most just happened to do it with multiple QBs and/or teams.  That will continue to be a knock on Belichick and he knows it --and he IS good, so he will win.

 
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Posted: #55

Quote Originally Posted by njsupreme1:

@Raiders22  Belichick doesnt have to prove jack.....greatest NFL football coach of all time..BAR NONE!

'Bar none'?  You really think that?  No one else even in the discussion for you?

 
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Posted: #56

Quote Originally Posted by njsupreme1:

@Raiders22  Belichick doesnt have to prove jack.....greatest NFL football coach of all time..BAR NONE!
an_cheers

 
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Posted: #57

Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @theMatrix24   Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: belichick went 11-5 with matt cassel. He made the playoffs last year with a rookie qb You do understand that they did NOT make the playoffs that year AND that they also LOST FIVE MORE games than they did the year before with the same personnel EXCEPT for Brady?  A HUGE dropoff. I have never seen this as a good example of his coaching and can even see it as a case against it. bruh you just said it. if brady is the goat 11 wins is a huge drop off? lol Correct.  Without Brady they ONLY won 11 games -- basically the same team won 16 the year before.  It is just a subset of the dropoff the Patriots show without Brady.  And the dropoff Belichick has without Brady as his QB. In order to prove to a lot of folks he is 'legendary' he has to show he can win without Brady.  That may be partially why Brady left -- to show he could do it, etc. well aaron rodgers thinks he's the greatest ever. does that help? Sure, of course it does.  A lot of folks feel that way.  But a lot of folks do not.  It always helps to have great QBs and football experts think highly of you.  But you will always have others that say Phil Jackson won because he had MJ and Kobe.  So, you will have some say Belichick won mostly when he had Brady. There are some coaches that nearly everyone agrees are 'legendary' -- most just happened to do it with multiple QBs and/or teams.  That will continue to be a knock on Belichick and he knows it --and he IS good, so he will win.
did you see bradys stats in first super bowl run? bledsoe had his moment too in the playoffs 

 
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Posted: #58

@Raiders22

 BAR NONE!

 
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Posted: #59

Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24:

Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @theMatrix24   Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: belichick went 11-5 with matt cassel. He made the playoffs last year with a rookie qb You do understand that they did NOT make the playoffs that year AND that they also LOST FIVE MORE games than they did the year before with the same personnel EXCEPT for Brady?  A HUGE dropoff. I have never seen this as a good example of his coaching and can even see it as a case against it. bruh you just said it. if brady is the goat 11 wins is a huge drop off? lol Correct.  Without Brady they ONLY won 11 games -- basically the same team won 16 the year before.  It is just a subset of the dropoff the Patriots show without Brady.  And the dropoff Belichick has without Brady as his QB. In order to prove to a lot of folks he is 'legendary' he has to show he can win without Brady.  That may be partially why Brady left -- to show he could do it, etc. well aaron rodgers thinks he's the greatest ever. does that help? Sure, of course it does.  A lot of folks feel that way.  But a lot of folks do not.  It always helps to have great QBs and football experts think highly of you.  But you will always have others that say Phil Jackson won because he had MJ and Kobe.  So, you will have some say Belichick won mostly when he had Brady. There are some coaches that nearly everyone agrees are 'legendary' -- most just happened to do it with multiple QBs and/or teams.  That will continue to be a knock on Belichick and he knows it --and he IS good, so he will win. did you see bradys stats in first super bowl run? bledsoe had his moment too in the playoffs

Yessir.  Not as much about numbers and stats for me as it is game managing and sheer will to win.  There are more talented QBs and some that will put up more prolific numbers.  But you have to incorporate that with the other intangibles needed to win -- that some QBs never had.

 
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Posted: #60

@theMatrix24

 

@njsupreme1

 I get it, I really do.  But I cannot put him head and shoulders over several others that did it for multiple teams or with multiple QBs.  He is fully capable of getting there though.  He for sure is in the top few.  He just needs to continue winning now is all.  peace_5

 
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Posted: #61

Quote Originally Posted by TxRangers:

@brn2loslive2win  This game had nothing to do with Belichick. It was dirty. Vegas told the NFL for the Packers not to cover - 9.5 spread. And for the record. Winning super bowls with the greatest football player of all time is no accomplishment. You could have been the head coach of the Patriots in one super bowls with Tom Brady and the defense they had. Belichick got fired before brady, and he will get fired after Brady. Greg popovich same thing. Funny how the Spurs have sucked The last 5 years. What happened to popovich? I thought he was the greatest basketball coach of all time. News flash. He had several of the best players of all time on his team. That's how coaches win, with their players, not because of their coaching abilities.
Kids….an_roll_laughWho exactly makes that call?

 
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Posted: #62

Beli is a great defensive mind. Probably the GOAT for defensive minded head coaches...

 

Obviously he doesn't all those rings without Brady....

 

Couple other coaches are close or better IMO...even tho they lack the accolades of beli 

 
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Posted: #63

Quote Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz:

Beli is a great defensive mind. Probably the GOAT for defensive minded head coaches...   Obviously he doesn't all those rings without Brady....   Couple other coaches are close or better IMO...even tho they lack the accolades of beli
how show me one coach that made the playoffs with the roster belichick had last year. don't worry i'll wait.  katt williams voice 

 
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Posted: #64

@TxRangers

 Ummm Dan Marino end of story...

 
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Posted: #65

@theMatrix24

 

 2017 jags. Had a legit d but so does Billy b ...the offense was hilarious....Blaine Gabbert 

 

Lot of great coaches from the 50s 60s 70s and 80s

 

 

 
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Posted: #66

Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24:

Quote Originally Posted by dubz4dummyz: Beli is a great defensive mind. Probably the GOAT for defensive minded head coaches...   Obviously he doesn't all those rings without Brady....   Couple other coaches are close or better IMO...even tho they lack the accolades of beli how show me one coach that made the playoffs with the roster belichick had last year. don't worry i'll wait.  katt williams voice

It's Belichick's roster he makes all the pick so you're saying he sucks as a GM right ?  He can't even evaluate talent on his own team,  Stidham should be the starting QB now .But he had to bring in Cam Newton two years ago made him the starter and a captain he had 5 TD 9 INTS after 8 games and Bill was so Pig headed and couldn't admit he made a mistake and Cam Newton played whole season stinking up the joint .

Then he drafts Matt Jones he didn't play in many games for Alabama that they weren't favored by 35.5 points he's softy and a stiff.

Belichick Brady era only had to do with having three bottom feeders in the same division Buffalo Miami and the Jets who sucked collectively for 20 years 

It's not like the other sports you have to win multiple series it's only a 3 game championship any coach coaching long enough with a decent team will win a Super bowl cause it's onlty a 3 game championship that's why the clown coaches from Pittsburgh and Baltimore have won SB'S . And the Patriots were set up every year by having three bottom feeders who sucked for so long it set up all these Rinky Dinky 3 game championships nothing great happened. 

Don't listen to the media with the Belichick praise he's an Idiot Savant Retard . 

 

 
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Posted: #67

@Silverstones

 

 This is slightly outdated now...but:

The AFC has been weak but Bellichick and Brady have made them look bad as well.

Consider that the Pats have been in 9 out of the last 17 Super Bowls (almost 53%) and won 6 of 17 for over a 35% win rate and it shows they’ve not only been able to get past the AFC East, they’ve then been able to get past the entire AFC an incredible number of times and then the best NFC team in the age of parity.

Maybe playing AFC East teams twice per year gives them an easier route to the playoffs and home field advantage, but in reality the toughest things that teams need to deal with by the playoffs are injuries and general fatigue. Even a healthy players is beat down. I couldn’t find a stat on this, but I’d bet that a players just as likely to get injured against the Steelers as they are against the Bills, and regardless teams are putting players on the field for 16 games before the playoffs start.

I’m an Eagles fan so take this for what it’s worth, but watch their last two wins in the Super Bowl. The second half of LI was a doctorate level lesson in how to execute an offensive comeback on the sport’s biggest stage, and LII was a masterful show in how to beat what was probably a better team by having a better defensive plan and executing it flawlessly.

Everyone can hate the Patriots and come up with excuses about cheating, but it’s tough not to admire the football they’ve played over nearly the last two decades.

 
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Posted: #68

And: 

Since 2003 the Patriots are 71 and 19 (.788) against AFC East teams. They are 118 and 32 (.786) against teams outside the AFC East. This could be the end of the discussion as far as I’m concerned.

The other 3 teams in the AFC East are more consistently mediocre than most divisions, but they have seldom sunk to the level that the Browns, the Cardinals, the 49 Niners, the Bucs, the Jaguars, the Lions, have sunk to. The Dolphins, Bills, and Jets are not usually gimme wins. In fact, since 2003, they are about .500 against the rest of the league. They are at some disadvantage in making the playoffs, because the Patriots are in their way.

 
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Posted: #69

@Raiders22

 

 Dolphins and bills were terrible in the 2000s if I'm not mistaken....they have both turned it around the last 5 seasons

 

Jets were terrible after the revis era and still struggling to get better. I remember Revis and the Jets giving Brady the most trouble in the 2000s

 
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Posted: #70

@Raiders22

 What are the Dolphins and bills from 2003-2015

 
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Posted: #71

@Raiders22

 

 Terrific posts...great information! I always admire the research!

 
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Posted: #72

Well to play devils advocate.. Belli has a losing record when Brady is not under center.... Big sample size to boot... Brady leaves wins SB and makes Arians  a genius after 20 plus years in the NFL.. Belli has won what since Brady left ...  Not much... hmm.... Just saying... genius.... well... Genius when the GOAT is under center for sure.. Without him..  Well.. His record without him gets you canned ..   That's right the Browns  fired him.. peace_5

 
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Posted: #73

@njsupreme1

 Those stats are skewed as he is using years belichick and Brady weren't together and in the last 5 years the bills and dolphins gotten a hell of a lot better than they were in the 2000s

 
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Posted: #74

@dubz4dummyz

 

Dumbest argument ever. 

 
 
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Posted: #75

Just thought it would be interesting to look at the records of the AFC East since 2001 with and without Patriots games.

The Bills are 119-169 since 2001. An abysmal 41.31% win rate. However, if you remove the Patriots games of which the Bills are a horrifying 4-32 11.11% win rate. They finish a still bad but much better 115-137 since 2001. That is a 45.64% win rate.

The Dolphins have been the strongest team in the Brady era in the AFC East with a bad but not terrible 133-155 record. Which works out to a 46.18% win rate. However, for whatever reason they have been pretty strong against the Patriots compared to the rest of the division (a terrible 12-24 or 33.33% win rate). Once you remove Patriots games they are better but it doesn't move the needle a lot. They finish 121-131 or 48.02% win rate.

The Jets actually do the best by this analysis. They are a merely bad 132-156 or 45.83% win rate. But if you remove their mystifying 8-28 or 22.22% win rate against the Patriots they finish an almost respectable 124-128 or 49.21% win rate.

Just for fun the Patriots have been 220-68 since 2001 which is a respectable 76.39% win rate. However, if you remove division games of which they are 84-24 winning at a 77.78% clip they suddenly come down to earth. Remove the tomato cans and they are only 136-44 a paltry 75.56% win rate. Or almost a full percent lower.

To put it in perspective during this amazing run the Patriots would have the following average finishes: Against the AFC East only: 12.44-3.56. Against everyone but the AFC East: 12.09-3.91. How it worked out in the real world: 12.22-3.78.

So the strength of their division is worth a whopping third of a win a year.

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