Posted:
#26
@TxRangers
I think he's a great coach and his team is 1-3 right now.
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Belichick Genius?? Someone explain
Posted:
#28
And:
Now that Belichick is going into a second season without Brady, the Patriots could be in for another long season. It's brought up the question of who was more important for the Patriots success, Brady or Belichick?
Before we dive into the numbers, the simple fact is when Belichick and Brady were together, they were the best. The six Super Bowl victories across 12 seasons is a record that will likely never be topped. They made the playoffs every season they were together except for two: 2002 and in 2008 when Brady was lost for the season due to a knee injury in the first game).
Then this week, former Patriots star Asante Samuel weighed in on last year’s starting quarterback, Cam Newton, getting cut by the Patriots on roster cutdown day. Samuel responded to a tweet from ESPN’s Louis Riddick and included this nugget: “But without Brady he is just another coach in my opinion. (sic)”
Samuel’s statement kicked up the discussion about Belichick without Brady. So, here’s how the numbers break down from a win/loss perspective.
Since Brady left New England, he led the Bucs to a Super Bowl championship in 2020 and looks poised to have the Bucs once again in the hunt for a second-straight title. Belichick’s Patriots stumbled to a 7-9 regular-season record in 2020 and this season will be starting a rookie quarterback, Mac Jones, which is tough for any team.
Prior to 2020, the last time Belichick didn’t have Brady under center was in 2008. That Patriots team was led by Matt Cassell after Brady tore his ACL in the first game of the season. The Patriots finished with an 11-5 regular-season record but missed the playoffs after dropping games to the Dolphins, who debuted the Wildcat offense that season. Belichick led the Patriots to a 5-11 record in 2000, the year before Brady took over as the starter and his first with New England.
Looking further back to his time in Cleveland, Belichick’s Browns made the playoffs just once in 1994, coincidentally the only winning season he posted as the head coach of the Browns. Overall, in Cleveland, Belichick posted a 30-34 regular-season record as head coach from 1992 through 1995.
In all his seasons without Brady at the helm in Cleveland and New England, Belichick has gone to the playoffs just once, the aforementioned 1994 season with the Browns. Outside of that season, Belichick hasn’t posted a winning season as a head coach in the NFL without Tom Brady as his quarterback. His overall record in the NFL as a head coach without Brady is 53-59, six games under .500.
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Posted:
#29
Here’s a season-by-season breakdown of Belichick without Brady:
- 1992 Browns – 7-9 (missed playoffs)
- 1993 Browns – 7-9 (missed playoffs)
- 1994 Browns – 11-5 (lost divisional round)
- 1995 Browns – 5-11 (missed playoffs)
- 2000 Patriots – 5-11 (missed playoffs)
- 2008 Patriots – 11-5 (missed playoffs)
- 2020 Patriots – 7-9 (missed playoffs)
- Career record without Brady: 53-59
For comparison, Belichick’s regular-season record with Brady at the helm, 221-67.
So is Samuel right, is Belichick just another coach without Brady? Based on wins and losses, probably so. But there’s more to Belichick than just that.
Belichick is a defensive guru. As a defensive coordinator under head coach Bill Parcells, he helped build the New York Giants’ powerhouse defenses of the late 1980s including two Super Bowl victories (1986, 1990). He and Parcells teamed up again in 1996 with Belichick coaching the secondary for a Patriots team that went to the Super Bowl, before losing to the Green Bay Packers.
He’s also produced a coaching tree with nine assistant coaches from his time as a head coach ending up becoming NFL and college head coaches, including Alabama Head Coach Nick Saban, arguably the greatest college coach ever.
There's no arguing Brady is the greatest quarterback ever, the GOAT. Belichick earned his accolades with Brady, what he does without him may go a long way to defining his legacy. Regardless, as NFL fans, seeing both of them in their prime has been a treat, even if you don't cheer for either.
1
Posted:
#31
@theMatrix24
I'm glad you brought up Matt Cassel. No one had film on Matt Cassell. The Patriots didn't even have film on him. He didn't play in college. What has he done after his first year like most quarterbacks, regressed. After teams get film on them. He hasn't won a game after that year?? Why? Because now they have film on him. It happens all the time. A quarterback is great in his first year, and sucks the next year because now teams have them on them and knows his tendencies. So, try again?
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Posted:
#34
Quote Originally Posted by TxRangers:
@theMatrix24 I'm glad you brought up Matt Cassel. No one had film on Matt Cassell. The Patriots didn't even have film on him. He didn't play in college. What has he done after his first year like most quarterbacks, regressed. After teams get film on them. He hasn't won a game after that year?? Why? Because now they have film on him. It happens all the time. A quarterback is great in his first year, and sucks the next year because now teams have them on them and knows his tendencies. So, try again?
name a good offensive player the patriots have right now
@theMatrix24 I'm glad you brought up Matt Cassel. No one had film on Matt Cassell. The Patriots didn't even have film on him. He didn't play in college. What has he done after his first year like most quarterbacks, regressed. After teams get film on them. He hasn't won a game after that year?? Why? Because now they have film on him. It happens all the time. A quarterback is great in his first year, and sucks the next year because now teams have them on them and knows his tendencies. So, try again?
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Posted:
#35
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
So, hard not to say he is good, maybe even great, but to be legendary he would have to prove it without Brady. For example, like Parcells or Gibbs with multiple QBs or teams, etc.
he is proving it. he made the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs on offense lol. name another coach that can make the playoffs with jacoby meyers as his best offensive player
So, hard not to say he is good, maybe even great, but to be legendary he would have to prove it without Brady. For example, like Parcells or Gibbs with multiple QBs or teams, etc.
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Posted:
#37
@theMatrix24
Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24:
belichick went 11-5 with matt cassel. He made the playoffs last year with a rookie qb
belichick went 11-5 with matt cassel. He made the playoffs last year with a rookie qb
You do understand that they did NOT make the playoffs that year AND that they also LOST FIVE MORE games than they did the year before with the same personnel EXCEPT for Brady? A HUGE dropoff.
I have never seen this as a good example of his coaching and can even see it as a case against it.
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Posted:
#38
@undermysac
Please answer my question!? Are the Patriots losing because of their players or because of their head coach!?!? Because according to Belichick fans, they win because of Belichick, but when he loses, they say it's a "rebuilding year" or "rookie quarterbacks". When he loses, they blame his team, and not him. But when he wins super bowls with the greatest player of all time and a great defense. Then they think he is great! So which one is it? Are they losing because of their players or because of their coach???
0
Posted:
#39
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
@theMatrix24 Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: belichick went 11-5 with matt cassel. He made the playoffs last year with a rookie qb You do understand that they did NOT make the playoffs that year AND that they also LOST FIVE MORE games than they did the year before with the same personnel EXCEPT for Brady? A HUGE dropoff. I have never seen this as a good example of his coaching and can even see it as a case against it.
bruh you just said it. if brady is the goat 11 wins is a huge drop off? lol
@theMatrix24 Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: belichick went 11-5 with matt cassel. He made the playoffs last year with a rookie qb You do understand that they did NOT make the playoffs that year AND that they also LOST FIVE MORE games than they did the year before with the same personnel EXCEPT for Brady? A HUGE dropoff. I have never seen this as a good example of his coaching and can even see it as a case against it.
0
Posted:
#42
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: brady left beli to join a super team lol 4 goats and a monster defense A 'super team' that had gone 5-11, 5-11, 7-9? Then when Brady gets there goes 11-5 and wins a SB and 13-4? This is a better case for Brady making that team a 'super team'.
you mean the bucs where wisnton threw 30 ints and didn't have gronk or AB? or Barrett
Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: brady left beli to join a super team lol 4 goats and a monster defense A 'super team' that had gone 5-11, 5-11, 7-9? Then when Brady gets there goes 11-5 and wins a SB and 13-4? This is a better case for Brady making that team a 'super team'.
0
Posted:
#44
Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24:
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: So, hard not to say he is good, maybe even great, but to be legendary he would have to prove it without Brady. For example, like Parcells or Gibbs with multiple QBs or teams, etc. he is proving it. he made the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs on offense lol. name another coach that can make the playoffs with jacoby meyers as his best offensive player
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: So, hard not to say he is good, maybe even great, but to be legendary he would have to prove it without Brady. For example, like Parcells or Gibbs with multiple QBs or teams, etc. he is proving it. he made the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs on offense lol. name another coach that can make the playoffs with jacoby meyers as his best offensive player
Yessir--he is proving he is a good coach -- but 'legendary'? Not yet, not to me.
And I like him and think he is good. But needs to show he can win without Brady is all. He can I think; he just has to do it. 
0
Posted:
#46
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: So, hard not to say he is good, maybe even great, but to be legendary he would have to prove it without Brady. For example, like Parcells or Gibbs with multiple QBs or teams, etc. he is proving it. he made the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs on offense lol. name another coach that can make the playoffs with jacoby meyers as his best offensive player Yessir--he is proving he is a good coach -- but 'legendary'? Not yet, not to me. And I like him and think he is good. But needs to show he can win without Brady is all. He can I think; he just has to do it.
no one is going to lose any sleep because you don't think someone is legendary. this texas dude is just a hater for no fucking reason
Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: So, hard not to say he is good, maybe even great, but to be legendary he would have to prove it without Brady. For example, like Parcells or Gibbs with multiple QBs or teams, etc. he is proving it. he made the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs on offense lol. name another coach that can make the playoffs with jacoby meyers as his best offensive player Yessir--he is proving he is a good coach -- but 'legendary'? Not yet, not to me. And I like him and think he is good. But needs to show he can win without Brady is all. He can I think; he just has to do it.
0
Posted:
#47
Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24:
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: brady left beli to join a super team lol 4 goats and a monster defense A 'super team' that had gone 5-11, 5-11, 7-9? Then when Brady gets there goes 11-5 and wins a SB and 13-4? This is a better case for Brady making that team a 'super team'. you mean the bucs where wisnton threw 30 ints and didn't have gronk or AB? or Barrett
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: brady left beli to join a super team lol 4 goats and a monster defense A 'super team' that had gone 5-11, 5-11, 7-9? Then when Brady gets there goes 11-5 and wins a SB and 13-4? This is a better case for Brady making that team a 'super team'. you mean the bucs where wisnton threw 30 ints and didn't have gronk or AB? or Barrett
Absolutely. Never forget Winston threw for more yard than Brady, over 5100 yards. AB only played 8 games. But sure, give the exact personnel to Winston and see what he does. Maybe he throws only 25 ints.
I get your point -- but you swerve the fact that the change was extraordinary.
0
Posted:
#48
Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24:
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: So, hard not to say he is good, maybe even great, but to be legendary he would have to prove it without Brady. For example, like Parcells or Gibbs with multiple QBs or teams, etc. he is proving it. he made the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs on offense lol. name another coach that can make the playoffs with jacoby meyers as his best offensive player Yessir--he is proving he is a good coach -- but 'legendary'? Not yet, not to me. And I like him and think he is good. But needs to show he can win without Brady is all. He can I think; he just has to do it. no one is going to lose any sleep because you don't think someone is legendary. this texas dude is just a hater for no fucking reason
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: Quote Originally Posted by theMatrix24: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: So, hard not to say he is good, maybe even great, but to be legendary he would have to prove it without Brady. For example, like Parcells or Gibbs with multiple QBs or teams, etc. he is proving it. he made the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs on offense lol. name another coach that can make the playoffs with jacoby meyers as his best offensive player Yessir--he is proving he is a good coach -- but 'legendary'? Not yet, not to me. And I like him and think he is good. But needs to show he can win without Brady is all. He can I think; he just has to do it. no one is going to lose any sleep because you don't think someone is legendary. this texas dude is just a hater for no fucking reason
You might be right. I did not take him for a 'hater' -- I think he sincerely questioned it. A lot of folks do. That is not to take away from him being a good coach; he is a good coach. He just will have to prove he can do it without Brady is all.
0
Posted:
#49
Quote Originally Posted by TxRangers:
this to me?? Romo just called Belichick legendary. Why? In his last 37 games. 4 this year, 17 last year, 16, 2 years ago. He has a 18 - 19 record. Is that legendary?? I don't think so! Brian Flores has more wins in the past two seasons then Belichick does. And Flores doesn't even coach anymore. He got fired. Bill Belichick is the most overrated coach, in any sport, at any level. Let me hear from you Belichick fans. Tell me how great this dude is? Because I'm confused. He's supposed to be the greatest coach of all time?? And I'm being sarcastic here. He's under .500, last two seasons, and this year. What happened? Belichick fans, tell me what happened? I thought he was great, I thought he was legendary. What happened? LOL.
this to me?? Romo just called Belichick legendary. Why? In his last 37 games. 4 this year, 17 last year, 16, 2 years ago. He has a 18 - 19 record. Is that legendary?? I don't think so! Brian Flores has more wins in the past two seasons then Belichick does. And Flores doesn't even coach anymore. He got fired. Bill Belichick is the most overrated coach, in any sport, at any level. Let me hear from you Belichick fans. Tell me how great this dude is? Because I'm confused. He's supposed to be the greatest coach of all time?? And I'm being sarcastic here. He's under .500, last two seasons, and this year. What happened? Belichick fans, tell me what happened? I thought he was great, I thought he was legendary. What happened? LOL.
You are taking a SMALL sample piece of his career... you are missing 25 years prior to these last 3.
Up to date record including this year 1-3 record.
291 wins 146 loses .666 win % = HOF 
"Stop chasing the money and start chasing the passion."
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