I don't think the game was ever fixed, however, circumstances at the end provided someone an opportunity to control the outcome for the bettors. Although the outcome of who won/lost was never in jeopardy, this call had tremendous effect on where the money fell. That is my only concern. (1) get the call right, regardless (2) don't be persuaded by the spread. The first point was clearly a blown call. The only questions reamaining - was there some influence to reverse the call on the field? Why was it reversed and who was involved in the decision?
There needed to be 100% conclusive evidence to reverse the call on the field. I didn't see anything to overturn the play. An investigation should be conducted and rule changes implemented to prevent this type of situation and potential point tampering from happening again. I'm not saying the game was fixed - but something needs fixed.
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I don't think the game was ever fixed, however, circumstances at the end provided someone an opportunity to control the outcome for the bettors. Although the outcome of who won/lost was never in jeopardy, this call had tremendous effect on where the money fell. That is my only concern. (1) get the call right, regardless (2) don't be persuaded by the spread. The first point was clearly a blown call. The only questions reamaining - was there some influence to reverse the call on the field? Why was it reversed and who was involved in the decision?
There needed to be 100% conclusive evidence to reverse the call on the field. I didn't see anything to overturn the play. An investigation should be conducted and rule changes implemented to prevent this type of situation and potential point tampering from happening again. I'm not saying the game was fixed - but something needs fixed.
Jeez, the refs blew the call. It's easy to understand. The replay booth ruled that the first "lateral" was a forward pass, which is a penalty, but didn't kill the play since the ball was caught in the air. So the penalty was declined, touchdown. But the refs on the field thought the booth ruled that the SECOND pass was called forward (obvious from the replay it wasn't, but from on the field, not as easy to tell). So, going by their thought that the pass was forward, and it hit the ground, it was ruled incomplete, and the play ended there. No touchdown.
Yes, it was a blown call. Yes, it should have been a touchdown. Yes, it affected the gambling outcome. But fixed? Just doesn't smell right. Out of all the fixes that have come public, has any involved the NFL? Not that I remember.
Ironically, almost 10 years to the day, a similar play happened in a Steelers-Titans game. The Steelers scored late to go ahead, but not cover. On the kickoff, the Titans tried to lateral a few times, and one of the Steelers picked it up and ran it in for a touchdown to cover (and yes, they kicked the extra point).
I'm not denying there is some shady stuff that happens from time to time, but I don't think this was one of them.
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Jeez, the refs blew the call. It's easy to understand. The replay booth ruled that the first "lateral" was a forward pass, which is a penalty, but didn't kill the play since the ball was caught in the air. So the penalty was declined, touchdown. But the refs on the field thought the booth ruled that the SECOND pass was called forward (obvious from the replay it wasn't, but from on the field, not as easy to tell). So, going by their thought that the pass was forward, and it hit the ground, it was ruled incomplete, and the play ended there. No touchdown.
Yes, it was a blown call. Yes, it should have been a touchdown. Yes, it affected the gambling outcome. But fixed? Just doesn't smell right. Out of all the fixes that have come public, has any involved the NFL? Not that I remember.
Ironically, almost 10 years to the day, a similar play happened in a Steelers-Titans game. The Steelers scored late to go ahead, but not cover. On the kickoff, the Titans tried to lateral a few times, and one of the Steelers picked it up and ran it in for a touchdown to cover (and yes, they kicked the extra point).
I'm not denying there is some shady stuff that happens from time to time, but I don't think this was one of them.
Jeff Smith I think you are a nut ... how can you say it took 20 to 30 minutes for the refs to make that call (~3 to 4 min) and that the previous week an EP was not kicked. Both are blatant falsehoods. I hope no one from the Univ of Tenn sees this, it would be very embarrassing, although you never said you graduated.
BTW I think the ref made the right call .. my DVR viewing proved to me the first lateral was an illegal forward pass.
As far as if games are fixed ... makes no difference, I still have a 50-50 chance of being on the right side.
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Jeff Smith I think you are a nut ... how can you say it took 20 to 30 minutes for the refs to make that call (~3 to 4 min) and that the previous week an EP was not kicked. Both are blatant falsehoods. I hope no one from the Univ of Tenn sees this, it would be very embarrassing, although you never said you graduated.
BTW I think the ref made the right call .. my DVR viewing proved to me the first lateral was an illegal forward pass.
As far as if games are fixed ... makes no difference, I still have a 50-50 chance of being on the right side.
Jeff Smith I think you are a nut ... how can you say it took 20 to 30 minutes for the refs to make that call (~3 to 4 min) and that the previous week an EP was not kicked. Both are blatant falsehoods. I hope no one from the Univ of Tenn sees this, it would be very embarrassing, although you never said you graduated.
BTW I think the ref made the right call .. my DVR viewing proved to me the first lateral was an illegal forward pass.
As far as if games are fixed ... makes no difference, I still have a 50-50 chance of being on the right side.
my tivo told me the same thing too.
that first lateral was a forward pass....................stop whining you pitt backers
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Quote Originally Posted by kenyonlv:
Jeff Smith I think you are a nut ... how can you say it took 20 to 30 minutes for the refs to make that call (~3 to 4 min) and that the previous week an EP was not kicked. Both are blatant falsehoods. I hope no one from the Univ of Tenn sees this, it would be very embarrassing, although you never said you graduated.
BTW I think the ref made the right call .. my DVR viewing proved to me the first lateral was an illegal forward pass.
As far as if games are fixed ... makes no difference, I still have a 50-50 chance of being on the right side.
my tivo told me the same thing too.
that first lateral was a forward pass....................stop whining you pitt backers
I know I will be called a nut, lol. Just for your info, if you noticed I made a mistake in saying the ep was not kicked the previous week. If you read all my posts i stated that the game I was referring to was an Overtime game about 3 to 4 weeks ago. I do make mistakes also, Seems like you are pissed that I make a small mistake and after FURTHER REVIEW I MAKE THE RIGHT CALL, The refs however do not!!!!! Oh and by the way, I am not a bettor, so whinning about losing money is not my style. Last thing, I hope the bettors from Tennessee see this or my book. One thing I have always noticed with bettors, they try to rationalize the refs decision based on one game or one call. What I am trying to show you guys is that there is a bigger picture. Oh and the people that are saying that the first latteral was illegal or second was illegal, well they were both legal, the first was close and even if it were illegal play was not stopped and THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT EXCUSE FOR THE CALL OTHER THAN THE POINT SPREAD. As for the 20- 30 minute time frame I am being scrutenized about, the total time from pulling the players back on the field, reviewing the play, letting it stand, then the ref huddle, then the overturn, and lastly to the interview that Green admitted they blew the call was a time table of 20 to 30 minutes. All this time to make a decision that does not effect the winner/loser of the game just the winner/loser of the betting world.
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I know I will be called a nut, lol. Just for your info, if you noticed I made a mistake in saying the ep was not kicked the previous week. If you read all my posts i stated that the game I was referring to was an Overtime game about 3 to 4 weeks ago. I do make mistakes also, Seems like you are pissed that I make a small mistake and after FURTHER REVIEW I MAKE THE RIGHT CALL, The refs however do not!!!!! Oh and by the way, I am not a bettor, so whinning about losing money is not my style. Last thing, I hope the bettors from Tennessee see this or my book. One thing I have always noticed with bettors, they try to rationalize the refs decision based on one game or one call. What I am trying to show you guys is that there is a bigger picture. Oh and the people that are saying that the first latteral was illegal or second was illegal, well they were both legal, the first was close and even if it were illegal play was not stopped and THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT EXCUSE FOR THE CALL OTHER THAN THE POINT SPREAD. As for the 20- 30 minute time frame I am being scrutenized about, the total time from pulling the players back on the field, reviewing the play, letting it stand, then the ref huddle, then the overturn, and lastly to the interview that Green admitted they blew the call was a time table of 20 to 30 minutes. All this time to make a decision that does not effect the winner/loser of the game just the winner/loser of the betting world.
regardless forward pass or not pitt could decline that penalty and take a td there,,,nfl rules!! why have em if ya dont follow em!! if the ball had hit the ground than it would be a dead ball! that was a td as a td gets!!! as for guys on the take..players make enough and refs dont !!! not sayn they deserve more cuz they suck but i say if you approach any nfl ref with a million dollar pay day on the take id have to say 50% chance of puttin that ref in your pocket!! lets take up a collection on covers and buy some refs!!!!!
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regardless forward pass or not pitt could decline that penalty and take a td there,,,nfl rules!! why have em if ya dont follow em!! if the ball had hit the ground than it would be a dead ball! that was a td as a td gets!!! as for guys on the take..players make enough and refs dont !!! not sayn they deserve more cuz they suck but i say if you approach any nfl ref with a million dollar pay day on the take id have to say 50% chance of puttin that ref in your pocket!! lets take up a collection on covers and buy some refs!!!!!
Jeff Smith I think you are a nut ... how can you say it took 20 to 30 minutes for the refs to make that call (~3 to 4 min) and that the previous week an EP was not kicked. Both are blatant falsehoods. I hope no one from the Univ of Tenn sees this, it would be very embarrassing, although you never said you graduated.
BTW I think the ref made the right call .. my DVR viewing proved to me the first lateral was an illegal forward pass.
As far as if games are fixed ... makes no difference, I still have a 50-50 chance of being on the right side.
Dude learn the rule book. Just because it was a forward lateral doesnt mean its blown dead at that point. The only way the ball is blown dead is if the forward lateral itself hits the ground. Tomlinsons forward lateral did not hit the ground so the ball stayed live. I had no interest in this game whatsoever money wise or fan based. But the TD definitely should have counted. There is no question about that.
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Quote Originally Posted by kenyonlv:
Jeff Smith I think you are a nut ... how can you say it took 20 to 30 minutes for the refs to make that call (~3 to 4 min) and that the previous week an EP was not kicked. Both are blatant falsehoods. I hope no one from the Univ of Tenn sees this, it would be very embarrassing, although you never said you graduated.
BTW I think the ref made the right call .. my DVR viewing proved to me the first lateral was an illegal forward pass.
As far as if games are fixed ... makes no difference, I still have a 50-50 chance of being on the right side.
Dude learn the rule book. Just because it was a forward lateral doesnt mean its blown dead at that point. The only way the ball is blown dead is if the forward lateral itself hits the ground. Tomlinsons forward lateral did not hit the ground so the ball stayed live. I had no interest in this game whatsoever money wise or fan based. But the TD definitely should have counted. There is no question about that.
Jeff- I am with you for the most part. The refs do not make nearly the kind of money they want to and they control the game. They can bet whoever they want and make them cover a spread regardless of whether its a favorite or an underdog. I dont think its the NFL fixing anything or Vegas fixing anything. Its totally on the refs.
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Jeff- I am with you for the most part. The refs do not make nearly the kind of money they want to and they control the game. They can bet whoever they want and make them cover a spread regardless of whether its a favorite or an underdog. I dont think its the NFL fixing anything or Vegas fixing anything. Its totally on the refs.
Well I can't resist. Like I said before, in the 90's the refs at least tried to hide the fact they were in on the fix. In the 90's, look at the box score and see evenamount of penalties, or at least close unless a team was just having an incredibly bad day of misques. False starts, etc. The way they rigged the outcome in those days was to penalize the team they wanted to win ats at a point in the game when the penalty did not matter. On the other hand, when penalizing the team they wanted to lose ats they would call a penalty on a 80 yard TD run, etc. If you do not watch the game or if you do watch the game but not objectively you never caught on to what the refs were doing. If you just look at the boxscore you see basically the same amount of penalties per team with reason and have no reason to think anything was suspect.
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Well I can't resist. Like I said before, in the 90's the refs at least tried to hide the fact they were in on the fix. In the 90's, look at the box score and see evenamount of penalties, or at least close unless a team was just having an incredibly bad day of misques. False starts, etc. The way they rigged the outcome in those days was to penalize the team they wanted to win ats at a point in the game when the penalty did not matter. On the other hand, when penalizing the team they wanted to lose ats they would call a penalty on a 80 yard TD run, etc. If you do not watch the game or if you do watch the game but not objectively you never caught on to what the refs were doing. If you just look at the boxscore you see basically the same amount of penalties per team with reason and have no reason to think anything was suspect.
that first lateral was a forward pass....................stop whining you pitt backers
The point is that an illegal fwd pass calls for a flag, which is of course an offensive penalty. An illegal fwd pass is *not* a situation where you spot the ball where the illlegal fwd pass took place. Now, since there is an offensive penalty on the play, you have to think about whether the play is nullified due to the fact that the penalty occurred as the game clock hit :00. The NFL rulebook states that an offensive penalty does *not* nullify the play if a change of possession occurred. Therefore, the play is live and Pittsburgh gets the oppurtunity to decline the penalty and take the TD.
That is the point. The fact that the refs said they misunderstood which lateral was being tabbed as illegal only fuels the fire that there actually was some kind of conspiracy going on. If that was actually the reason, the refs would have thought on the field:
"Okay, so which lateral are they saying is illegal? Well, it doesn't matter because they completed the first lateral. The second one hit the ground and was recovered by the other team. Either we're throwing a flag on the Tomlinson lateral or we're not throwing a flag on the Chambers lateral."
It's that simple. These are NFL refs. I don't buy that they are so stupid that they couldn't come up with the above conclusion.
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Quote Originally Posted by HoldEm00:
my tivo told me the same thing too.
that first lateral was a forward pass....................stop whining you pitt backers
The point is that an illegal fwd pass calls for a flag, which is of course an offensive penalty. An illegal fwd pass is *not* a situation where you spot the ball where the illlegal fwd pass took place. Now, since there is an offensive penalty on the play, you have to think about whether the play is nullified due to the fact that the penalty occurred as the game clock hit :00. The NFL rulebook states that an offensive penalty does *not* nullify the play if a change of possession occurred. Therefore, the play is live and Pittsburgh gets the oppurtunity to decline the penalty and take the TD.
That is the point. The fact that the refs said they misunderstood which lateral was being tabbed as illegal only fuels the fire that there actually was some kind of conspiracy going on. If that was actually the reason, the refs would have thought on the field:
"Okay, so which lateral are they saying is illegal? Well, it doesn't matter because they completed the first lateral. The second one hit the ground and was recovered by the other team. Either we're throwing a flag on the Tomlinson lateral or we're not throwing a flag on the Chambers lateral."
It's that simple. These are NFL refs. I don't buy that they are so stupid that they couldn't come up with the above conclusion.
same amount of penalties winthin reason. Sorry for the blunders in spelling but I am basically writing a book, short hand on this site. Hope you can forgive my blunders as you do the refs blunders. I am apologizing as they do after the blunder but the difference is that I am not getting paid to blunder... I am in the wrong business. I didn't realize I had this much in common with the refs, and for millions I too can be bought for one or two games. As big as sports are in society today, and the money that exchanges hands on EVERY game, fixed or not fixed still money exchanging hands. You rarely, if ever hear even a wisper of what if the game is fix? could the game be fixed? It is the elephant in the room that everyone seems to ignore. I don't ignore it, I describe the elephant.
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same amount of penalties winthin reason. Sorry for the blunders in spelling but I am basically writing a book, short hand on this site. Hope you can forgive my blunders as you do the refs blunders. I am apologizing as they do after the blunder but the difference is that I am not getting paid to blunder... I am in the wrong business. I didn't realize I had this much in common with the refs, and for millions I too can be bought for one or two games. As big as sports are in society today, and the money that exchanges hands on EVERY game, fixed or not fixed still money exchanging hands. You rarely, if ever hear even a wisper of what if the game is fix? could the game be fixed? It is the elephant in the room that everyone seems to ignore. I don't ignore it, I describe the elephant.
tuttle - Thats what they're hiding behind here.The on field Ref says he was somehow "confused" about which lateral the replay booth ruled as a forward pass when clearly the Chambers lateral went backwards about 3-4 yards.I'd have to watch the replay agian to see if there was a official on the sideline with a clear view of the Chambers throw.I actually sent a email to 60 minutes asking them to do a story on this game
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tuttle - Thats what they're hiding behind here.The on field Ref says he was somehow "confused" about which lateral the replay booth ruled as a forward pass when clearly the Chambers lateral went backwards about 3-4 yards.I'd have to watch the replay agian to see if there was a official on the sideline with a clear view of the Chambers throw.I actually sent a email to 60 minutes asking them to do a story on this game
Confusion of what lateral, foward lateral, dead ball on 2nd lateral, the whistle was blown on dead ball, and we made a mistake seems very suspicious.
Investigation needs to review the whole game between SD & PIT. Review the film for Penalties that was missed and called for possible Collusion would be a good start.
Allegedly the NFL DOES review every game, the whole game. They say that it is how they measure the accuracy of the referees working the games, and it gives them an opportunity to line their pockets with some of the rediculous fines that they have handed out this year.
Based upon these results they grade the refs and according to who has the higher grades, playoff and superbowl games are awarded.
IMHO, none of these guys deserve to even be wearing a referee uniform. Even IF the "guy behind the curtain" said to negate the TD, it is untilmately the head ref that makes the call. It is his responsibility to keep the integrity of the game, in this case.. It is an obvious epic failure.
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Quote Originally Posted by Guy_2U:
Possible conspiracy theory by the referee crew.
Confusion of what lateral, foward lateral, dead ball on 2nd lateral, the whistle was blown on dead ball, and we made a mistake seems very suspicious.
Investigation needs to review the whole game between SD & PIT. Review the film for Penalties that was missed and called for possible Collusion would be a good start.
Allegedly the NFL DOES review every game, the whole game. They say that it is how they measure the accuracy of the referees working the games, and it gives them an opportunity to line their pockets with some of the rediculous fines that they have handed out this year.
Based upon these results they grade the refs and according to who has the higher grades, playoff and superbowl games are awarded.
IMHO, none of these guys deserve to even be wearing a referee uniform. Even IF the "guy behind the curtain" said to negate the TD, it is untilmately the head ref that makes the call. It is his responsibility to keep the integrity of the game, in this case.. It is an obvious epic failure.
No Big Deal Here! Thats why there going to fix this Shit before the Play-Offs.hope they do i cant stand to lose another 
right on 
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