How is Lebron's cast suppose to play well....

@ DeezyAZ81 - like i said, am not here to stick up for bron or make historical comparisons, just wanted to point out that whoever said "jordan played with bums" has no clue what he is talking about...

Now on to your point - of course pippens numbers went down after 98, he was in his mid thirties and on the down side of his career you douche... In 93-94, when jordan retired the first time, pippen averaged 22 ppg and 8.7 rbg, both career highs, without jordan. Not to mention that he lead that team to a 55-27 record (the same team with jordan was 57-25 in 92-93) and a near upset of the knicks in the second round (lost in 7).

So bottomline, the 92-93 bulls were 57-25, the 93-94 bulls were 55-25 (with kukoc on the roster and jordan not playing, and even pippen only played 72 games).... Jordan had a GREAT supporting cast that won 55 games WITHOUT him...

DeezyAZ81, I dont know how old you are, either way, you got NO clue what you are talking about when it comes to historical comparisons and your talent evalution of current rosters is not much better

I expect more from the annointed KING JAMES.. 

Quite simply older than you and grew up in chicago and attended many bulls games during that generation.  You have no clue about the game of basketball.   Quite simply.  If you don't think Jordan made Scottie Pippen you are clueless and can't evaluate talent yourself.  Do you realize where Scottie Pippen came from?  Did you ever think that maybe the Bulls record when Jordan briefly retired was still good because they still had this head coach named Phil Jackson who happens to be the most successful head coach in the history of sports?  Damn you are clueless.  Cool Scottie had inflated numbers the year Jordan retired.  Of course he did he was the focal point of the team that lost the leagues best player and the NBA's leading scorer.  He got more shots.  There are plenty of guys in the NBA that can score 22 per game when they are the teams primary scoring option. If you think MJ played with a bunch of talent around him you clearly didn't watch the NBA during that time.  The heats talent is just as good if not better than what MJ dealt with most of his career.  And yes you are clearly defending lebron

Wins/Losses for the Bobcats if they have Lebron on their roster? 

Deezy - apparently you dont understand the principles of controlled and manipulated variables.. I laid everything out as clear as day in post #26, and if you cant comprehend the significance of the fact that the 93-94 bulls won almost the same number of regular season games as the 92-93 bulls, then i am the idiot for even trying to continue this debate.

I am not defending bron, just saying lets wait until the series is over.... if they come back to win, all this bron chatter will be moot, just like it was after game 3 of the pacer series

It is what it is.  Myself and others in the post obviously disagree with you greatly in believing jordan had a great supporting cast in the early 90's.  He played with one other all-star (Pippen), in which he was responsible for making into an all star.  Kukoc was a work in progress early in his career and was great on the offensive end but a terrible defender.  If you are talking about Bulls team vs. Heat team it's a completely different topic.  Bulls were obviously coached by the best ever, which had a lot to do with their success and not necessarily a great supporting cast.  As I mentioned earlier.  Almost all of those supporting cast members of those bulls teams went on to do nothing after Jordan retired from the game.  Kerr was the exception but he was still a role player for a team with the best PF of all time in Duncan.  What did Kukoc do after Jordan left?  You are bringing up regular season records with/without Jordan like they matter.  It's about championships.  You and both know Pippen was not coming close to a title without MJ.  I remember that series vs Knicks.  Yes it was close we lost though.  That's the difference between having the greatest player to ever play on the roster and not having him.  Like I said I have no idea why you are bringing up regular season wins as no one cares.  Only reg season Phil and Mj really cared about is when they went 72-10 and set out to break the record.  So those variables you bring up are kind of weak.  If you really think players like Perdue, Wennington, Longley, Paxson, Armstrong, Brown, (An old Ron Harper), Bucheler, Kerr, Jason Caffey, Dickey Simpkins, Randy Brown, etc. are great role players you don't know basketball.   Yes MJ played with Scottie who he helped develop, Horace grant who was solid (but not a perennial all-star by any means, and Rodman at the tail end of his career, strictly a rebounder and defender at that point.  I mean the best players he played with Scottie and Dennis (late in his career).  I think Lebron overall has a more talented roster than jordans teams. Difference is jordans attitude.  He made his guys become winners and made them better.  Just my opinion. 

The statement that was made was: "jordan played with a bunch of bums". A group of bums does not win 55 games. A 55 win team is a very good team, regardless of how you slice it. obviously that 93-94 didnt and couldnt win a championship without jordan, but that doesnt take away from a very good 55 win season. next year the bulls lost hoarace grant and didnt replace him and guess what happened - the bulls struggled to a 34-31 record until jordan came back. With a much weaker supporting cast, they lost to the orlando magic in the playoffs WITH jordan. people always make excuses that jordan was out of shape because he started the season late, but without the dominant rebounder, they wouldnt have beat the magic that year anyway and certainly not the rockets in the finals....


Anyway, you want to know who played with a bunch of bums? Bron in cleveland... That went from a 65 win team to a 19 win team with the almost the same players.

Finally, last word on this thread - superstars are judged by titles, until bron wins one, he will be shit on... and when he wins one, he will be shit on for only having one title.. it is what it is, he is a great talent, but will never live up to his hype unless he gets to the elite level of three or more titles

Well, the year after Jordan left the team went 13-37.  Granted they imploded the team but they still had a few players like Tony Kukoc.

The Bulls won 3 straight titles before Jordan went to play baseball for 2 years.  The Bulls didn't win 3 straight titles again until Jordan came back.

The year he came back from baseball they went 72-10.

Yes they went 55-27 the year Jordan left, but you conveniently leave out the fact that the Knix and Ewing beat the Bulls in the Semifinals.

You also conveniently leave out the fact of what everyone who saw Jordan knew-he MADE players.  The fact that they had a good season when he left was a testament to Michael Jordan's ability to grow players that weren't superstars to begin with.

The best COMPLETE player, ever.  He MADE the Bulls.  He MADE Phil Jackson.  It was an honor to see him play.  Nobody is ever going to say that about LeBron James, as of yet.  James has yet to win a single title, and if he doesn't as someone said he'll be on 30 for 30 as the Greatest that Never Was.

Jordan would always RIP APART players.

And here's quote from Jordan after they got Bosh-Wade-LeBron together:
"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,' " Jordan said after playing in a celebrity golf tournament in Nevada over the weekend. "But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

https://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2010/07/lebron_james_michael_jordan_ba.html

It's a different mindset, a different era.

The guy these days who can reach superstar levels, one of the best of all time, is Kevin Durant.  Seems to be just coming out of his shell now.  We'll see.  It's a long ways to the top.

All that said, if Eric Spoelstra knows how to coach, the Heat are headed to the Finals.  If Mario Chalmers can play as good as backup Bulls point guard John Lucas Jr, (D-league pickup), the Heat are headed to the Finals.

Jordan would have made Eric Spoelstra and Mario Chalmers much better players.  LeBron, no chance.

I mean Spoelstra a much better coach...u get the idea

he made his team around him better.  that and his ability made him the best ever.

I'll also add clutch.  Last 3 minutes of the game Jordan simply wouldn't miss.  He'd take over.

Maybe he'd coast a bit but when it really mattered in the end he'd take and make everything or get people open shots.

We can argue forever about this but I saw him play, and those that did know, and that will always trump people that didn't see him play.

closest player to Jordan was Kobe Bryant, who may coast but when it mattered most that's when he shined.  LeBron is a different kind of player altogether, different brian different style.

You are defending Bron again anyway you slice it even though you claim you aren't.  But you said so yourself, superstars are judged by championships.  Who cares how many wins bron led Cleveland to in the regular season?  That 60+ win team didn't even get to the finals.  You think bron would have led that garbage team to 60+ wins an jordan's era of basketball? No chance.  You are leaving out that Jordan played in the greatest era of basketball the NBA has ever seen.  You are bringing up the bulls losing Horace Grant? Ha the guy was an all star once in his career.  As others have mentioned Jordan made average players play their best and he made everyone else around him much better.  It's quite obvious Bron hasn't and currently isn't having the same effect on his teammates.  Funny thing is he plays with two other superstars too. 

Agreed completely.  Kobe in his prime closest we have ever seen and that may never change.  I think Durant has that same type of killer instinct too at such a young age. 

Its funny how when the Heat win its ALL because Lebron, but when they lose NONE of it is Lebron...

How does that make sense

the only reason why people say jordan had good supporting cast was cuz jordan carried them to 6 rings and woulda ben 8 if he didnt retire. Jordan made that whole team and demanded them to elevate their game. we all remember the stories of jordan in practice how competitive he was he did what he had to do to will his team to win no matter hat it was.  If jordan never won a ring i dont think people would b sayin wow jordan neva won with a great supporting cast.. Iif u guys wana argue whos better argue durant or lebron but please keep jordans name out of it its pathetic