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    All Forums | MLB Betting Forum

    Reds vs Pirates 4/15/11 (weather permitting)

    Big_Red_Machine
    zooyorkinc
    kohli4
    VegasVandal
    BetsUnlimited
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    Big_Red_Machine
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 1:32 PM ET #1

    YTD on Reds games:
    4-4 +.72

    First off the weather is going to be an issue. LINK
    I'm no meteorologist but 100% chance of rain sounds bad.

    Starters: Charlie Morton (R) vs Bronson Arroyo (R)

    Morton-As I have said before, trying to pin regression down to a single game is a total crapshoot. That said, pass me the dice because Charlie Morton's numbers are screaming for a turnaround.

    ERA: 2.08 (13IP)
    FIP: 5.93
    xFIP: 5.38
    BABIP: .179
    LOB%: 84.3

    No pitcher of Morton's modest talent can keep up that kind of ERA. None. It may not be this game but sometime very soon the clock will strike midnight, Charlie's going to turn into a pumpkin and you don't want to be backing the Pirates when it happens.

    Arroyo-Using the same metrics Arroyo is due for a correction of his own but here is where the tricky part of "corrections" comes into play. Arroyo has almost 1700 career IP of outperforming his xFIP whereas Morton does not. Arroyo is also facing the Pirates offense, not the Reds offense. That said he isn't going to keep up a 2.08 ERA or K/BB rate of 11. He's due for a rocking or two of his own sometime soon, be careful.

    Offense: Monster edge to the Reds here.

    It looked like the Pirates Offense was going to click early but they have scored the fewest Runs of any team in the NL so far (small sample size warning). I think they are capable of much better but with so much youth they are going to be streaky. Tabata, McCucthen, Walker and Overbay are all good offensive players. No mit err Doumit is a decent offensive catcher and Garret Jones can walk into one every now and the. From what little I have seen of them so far however Pedro Alvarez might be the worst offensive everyday player in MLB (move over Skip Schumaker ?)

    Reds led the NL in Runs last year and lead it again so far this year. Bruce looks like he's coming out of his slump to boot.

    Defense: Big edge Reds. The Buccos are dicey at many positions, the Reds have a plus glove everywhere but LF. Depending on how you feel about defensive metrics this could be a best in class vs worst in class matchup.

    Bullpens: Thought to be a strength for the Reds coming into the season the pen is off to a rough start, all basically because of too many BB's (4.58 BB/9 2nd worst in the NL). Masset's problems are mental and he had the exact same B.S. last April then was lights out the rest of the way. Champman's issues appear to be physical and as a fan I pray its nothing serious. Cordero has been a high WHIP reliever that gets a lot of saves strictly because he's only been used in Save situations for years now. He is not a dominant closer no matter what the Save stat may say. The front end of the reds pen is actually very solid.

    The Pirates pen is almost a carbon copy of the Reds in terms of numbers (less HR's) they too are dealing with a solid guy off to a rough start (Meek) and have a solid but not spectacular closer in Hanrahan. The one thing to be cautious of is the same as with the Pirates starters, the pen's ERA and xFIP do not match and suggest a looming rise in said ERA. They walk a lot of guys and haven't given up a single HR yet, that isn't going to last.

    Of course the single greatest thing about the Pirates bullpen is getting to do the "Hey Hanrahan!" thing anytime they roll him out there.

    Angles: There is never any value in playing a MLB favorite at -180 or higher imo. Likewise I see no value in laying (-110) and risking the Under 8.5. (two ticking time bomb pitchers, pens, Pirates bad defense, Reds offense, GABP)

    So that leaves you with the choice of;
    -Pirates ML +170 (need to feel they have a better than 1/3 chance to have +EV)
    -Reds RL +120
    -Over 8.5 (-110) Risk is will the Piarates offense be able to contribute enough? Also of note, these two teams had 5 games last year with the total set at 8.5 and it only produced 2 Overs, one of which was started by Morton.

    The weather is probably going to keep this one from being played tonight but I'll be back later with lineups and a play if they somehow get it in.

    As always, BOL in whatever you decide to play!!


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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    YTD on Reds games:
    4-4 +.72

    First off the weather is going to be an issue. LINK
    I'm no meteorologist but 100% chance of rain sounds bad.

    Starters: Charlie Morton (R) vs Bronson Arroyo (R)

    Morton-As I have said before, trying to pin regression down to a single game is a total crapshoot. That said, pass me the dice because Charlie Morton's numbers are screaming for a turnaround.

    ERA: 2.08 (13IP)
    FIP: 5.93
    xFIP: 5.38
    BABIP: .179
    LOB%: 84.3

    No pitcher of Morton's modest talent can keep up that kind of ERA. None. It may not be this game but sometime very soon the clock will strike midnight, Charlie's going to turn into a pumpkin and you don't want to be backing the Pirates when it happens.

    Arroyo-Using the same metrics Arroyo is due for a correction of his own but here is where the tricky part of "corrections" comes into play. Arroyo has almost 1700 career IP of outperforming his xFIP whereas Morton does not. Arroyo is also facing the Pirates offense, not the Reds offense. That said he isn't going to keep up a 2.08 ERA or K/BB rate of 11. He's due for a rocking or two of his own sometime soon, be careful.

    Offense: Monster edge to the Reds here.

    It looked like the Pirates Offense was going to click early but they have scored the fewest Runs of any team in the NL so far (small sample size warning). I think they are capable of much better but with so much youth they are going to be streaky. Tabata, McCucthen, Walker and Overbay are all good offensive players. No mit err Doumit is a decent offensive catcher and Garret Jones can walk into one every now and the. From what little I have seen of them so far however Pedro Alvarez might be the worst offensive everyday player in MLB (move over Skip Schumaker ?)

    Reds led the NL in Runs last year and lead it again so far this year. Bruce looks like he's coming out of his slump to boot.

    Defense: Big edge Reds. The Buccos are dicey at many positions, the Reds have a plus glove everywhere but LF. Depending on how you feel about defensive metrics this could be a best in class vs worst in class matchup.

    Bullpens: Thought to be a strength for the Reds coming into the season the pen is off to a rough start, all basically because of too many BB's (4.58 BB/9 2nd worst in the NL). Masset's problems are mental and he had the exact same B.S. last April then was lights out the rest of the way. Champman's issues appear to be physical and as a fan I pray its nothing serious. Cordero has been a high WHIP reliever that gets a lot of saves strictly because he's only been used in Save situations for years now. He is not a dominant closer no matter what the Save stat may say. The front end of the reds pen is actually very solid.

    The Pirates pen is almost a carbon copy of the Reds in terms of numbers (less HR's) they too are dealing with a solid guy off to a rough start (Meek) and have a solid but not spectacular closer in Hanrahan. The one thing to be cautious of is the same as with the Pirates starters, the pen's ERA and xFIP do not match and suggest a looming rise in said ERA. They walk a lot of guys and haven't given up a single HR yet, that isn't going to last.

    Of course the single greatest thing about the Pirates bullpen is getting to do the "Hey Hanrahan!" thing anytime they roll him out there.

    Angles: There is never any value in playing a MLB favorite at -180 or higher imo. Likewise I see no value in laying (-110) and risking the Under 8.5. (two ticking time bomb pitchers, pens, Pirates bad defense, Reds offense, GABP)

    So that leaves you with the choice of;
    -Pirates ML +170 (need to feel they have a better than 1/3 chance to have +EV)
    -Reds RL +120
    -Over 8.5 (-110) Risk is will the Piarates offense be able to contribute enough? Also of note, these two teams had 5 games last year with the total set at 8.5 and it only produced 2 Overs, one of which was started by Morton.

    The weather is probably going to keep this one from being played tonight but I'll be back later with lineups and a play if they somehow get it in.

    As always, BOL in whatever you decide to play!!


     
    zooyorkinc
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 2:03 PM ET #2

    I like the Reds runline.  Keep us posted on the weather.  
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    I like the Reds runline.  Keep us posted on the weather.  
     
    kohli4
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 2:10 PM ET #3

    I have the Pirates +1.5 and the over 8.5. I see a 8-7 ball game. Now that is raining I am doomed....
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    I have the Pirates +1.5 and the over 8.5. I see a 8-7 ball game. Now that is raining I am doomed....
     
    VegasVandal
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 2:14 PM ET #4

    I think Reds RL is the right play here and also the over. Morton will get lit up for at least 6 runs
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    I think Reds RL is the right play here and also the over. Morton will get lit up for at least 6 runs
     
    BetsUnlimited
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 2:34 PM ET #5

    I have made it a habit of going against Morton (last year was a gold mine).  He has had 2 decent outtings this year and another covers member told me he was working on his mechanics a bit.  However, its hard to ignore his 1-4 lifetime w/ a 6.34 ERA.  Hes also given up 42 hits and 15 walks in 32 innings against the reds. 

    im taking a hard look at the over

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    I have made it a habit of going against Morton (last year was a gold mine).  He has had 2 decent outtings this year and another covers member told me he was working on his mechanics a bit.  However, its hard to ignore his 1-4 lifetime w/ a 6.34 ERA.  Hes also given up 42 hits and 15 walks in 32 innings against the reds. 

    im taking a hard look at the over

     
    LasVegasLord
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 2:35 PM ET #6

    Nice write up.  On Pirates.
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    Nice write up.  On Pirates.
     
    Big_Red_Machine
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 3:54 PM ET #7

    Zoo      will do

    Kohli not looking good weather wise

    Vegas V   it sure seems that way

    BetsU Pirates offense is the only thing concerning me on the Over

    LVL   Nothing wrong with that play at all.

    BOl everyone!


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    Zoo      will do

    Kohli not looking good weather wise

    Vegas V   it sure seems that way

    BetsU Pirates offense is the only thing concerning me on the Over

    LVL   Nothing wrong with that play at all.

    BOl everyone!


     
    snakebyte
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 4:00 PM ET #8

    GL
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    GL
     
    Big_Red_Machine
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 4:34 PM ET #9

    Snake

    Reds Lineup
    Stubbs CF
    Renteria SS
    Votto 1B
    Rolen 3B
    Gomes LF
    Bruce RF
    Cairo 2B
    Hanigan C
    Arroyo P

    Janish with the day off and no Phillips.

    With the threat of rain you have to consider getting your money involved in one of these goofy ass games that start and stop, have a multi hour rain delay, lose the starters after the first rain delay, etc etc etc.

    Pirates lineup
    McCutchen 8,
    Tabata 7,
    Overbay 3,
     Walker 4,
    Alvarez 5,
    Jones 9,
    Snyder 2,
    Cedeno 6,
    Morton RHP


    1 through 4 that looks good to me. #5 hitter being an out machine isn't good but I guess the theory is get him some fastballs being in front of Jones and Snyder. Problem is Arroyo doesn't have a fastball.


    Phillips being out really affects the Over and Reds RL in my eyes. He has been on fire. Cairo does have an uncanny ability to hit well when he spot starts for key run producers though.

    Be back with a play and weather updates in a bit
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    Snake

    Reds Lineup
    Stubbs CF
    Renteria SS
    Votto 1B
    Rolen 3B
    Gomes LF
    Bruce RF
    Cairo 2B
    Hanigan C
    Arroyo P

    Janish with the day off and no Phillips.

    With the threat of rain you have to consider getting your money involved in one of these goofy ass games that start and stop, have a multi hour rain delay, lose the starters after the first rain delay, etc etc etc.

    Pirates lineup
    McCutchen 8,
    Tabata 7,
    Overbay 3,
     Walker 4,
    Alvarez 5,
    Jones 9,
    Snyder 2,
    Cedeno 6,
    Morton RHP


    1 through 4 that looks good to me. #5 hitter being an out machine isn't good but I guess the theory is get him some fastballs being in front of Jones and Snyder. Problem is Arroyo doesn't have a fastball.


    Phillips being out really affects the Over and Reds RL in my eyes. He has been on fire. Cairo does have an uncanny ability to hit well when he spot starts for key run producers though.

    Be back with a play and weather updates in a bit
     
    Big_Red_Machine
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 4:53 PM ET #10

    Game will start on time. Supposed to be a window between 6:30 and 10:30 when they can get it in.


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    Game will start on time. Supposed to be a window between 6:30 and 10:30 when they can get it in.


     
    Big_Red_Machine
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 6:04 PM ET #11

    Reds RL +120 1 Unit

    Phillips missing is a concern but that's why they call it gambling.

    BOL to everyone!!
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    Reds RL +120 1 Unit

    Phillips missing is a concern but that's why they call it gambling.

    BOL to everyone!!
     
    tinfoils
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 6:12 PM ET #12

    Good luck Big Red.
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    Good luck Big Red.
     
    Big_Red_Machine
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 8:19 PM ET #13

    Looks like I picked the wrong guy to have his first bad game.

    Arroyo is getting killed, Morton is dealing.

    Sorry if anyone trailed me on this one.
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    Looks like I picked the wrong guy to have his first bad game.

    Arroyo is getting killed, Morton is dealing.

    Sorry if anyone trailed me on this one.
     
    BetsUnlimited
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 8:20 PM ET #14

    i laid off the over due to the weather.  Rats bats are makin some noise tonight 
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    i laid off the over due to the weather.  Rats bats are makin some noise tonight 
     
    sunnyboi
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 8:25 PM ET #15

    Please More RAIN!!!!

    REDS

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    Please More RAIN!!!!

    REDS

     
     
    JeffieLe
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2011 - 8:29 PM ET #16

    ya tell m about it..let it rain!!!!
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    ya tell m about it..let it rain!!!!
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