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    All Forums | Investments

    November Stock Talk VII

    «First Previous 12345 Next Last»
    Vermeer
    wallstreetcappers
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    «First Previous 12345 Next Last»
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 4:33 AM ET #76


     Lastly, a French critic tells it like it is regarding Greenspan....


    Nayeri: Joseph Stiglitz went on the record on Nov. 16 as saying that Greenspan had ``made a mess'' and that the U.S. now faced a recession. Do you agree?

    Artus: Yes. Greenspan was an arsonist and a fireman combined. He derived all his glory from his reaction to the savings-and- loans crisis, to the collapse of Long-Term Capital Management LP, and to Sept. 11, 2001. But LTCM and the savings-and-loans crisis were his doing. He absolutely failed to see where the malfunctions in the U.S. economy were.

    Greenspan came up with a phrase, ``irrational exuberance,'' in 1997, but he didn't do anything about it.

    Nayeri: How would you sum up his track record, then?

    Artus: He was a very bad Federal Reserve chairman. He created four major crises: savings and loans, LTCM, new-technology shares, and subprime mortgages.

    Nayeri: But surely you will acknowledge that Greenspan saved the planet at crucial turning points?

    Artus: Yes, but after the fact. He's congratulated for his role as fireman, but he's the one who started the fire.

    No Vision

    He had no vision of what was dangerous. Today, we're destroying the world banking system with this subprime crisis. Outstanding subprime loans add up to $1.2 trillion. That's the equivalent of Italy's gross domestic product.

    Nayeri: But the world has enjoyed economic prosperity in the meantime.

    Artus: The problem is that you pay for it later.

    You can always manufacture growth by having extremely low rates and producing asset-price bubbles. But that's not a way to generate growth. You can't do that in the long run.

    Nayeri: What about Trichet and the European Central Bank?

    Artus: It's the same thing, only there's no subprime crisis in Europe.

    (French President Nicolas) Sarkozy's criticism of the ECB is the opposite of mine. There is no evidence of any kind that European interest rates have slowed growth.

    In fact, monetary policy saved growth, which is usually weak, by producing a real-estate boom. But we're paying the price today. People are too deep in debt.

    Nayeri: So which central bank has done well by your reckoning?

    Artus: The most modern central banks are the Bank of England and the Bank of Sweden.

    The Bank of England is the only central bank that has factored real-estate prices into its policy making, and that also looks at exchange rates. It has a global vision of the economy, and that's what we like. They completely slipped up when it came to the banks, but that was the Financial Services Authority, it wasn't them.

    ``Les incendiaires'' is published by Perrin (175 pages, 14.80 euros.)



    Reply

     Lastly, a French critic tells it like it is regarding Greenspan....


    Nayeri: Joseph Stiglitz went on the record on Nov. 16 as saying that Greenspan had ``made a mess'' and that the U.S. now faced a recession. Do you agree?

    Artus: Yes. Greenspan was an arsonist and a fireman combined. He derived all his glory from his reaction to the savings-and- loans crisis, to the collapse of Long-Term Capital Management LP, and to Sept. 11, 2001. But LTCM and the savings-and-loans crisis were his doing. He absolutely failed to see where the malfunctions in the U.S. economy were.

    Greenspan came up with a phrase, ``irrational exuberance,'' in 1997, but he didn't do anything about it.

    Nayeri: How would you sum up his track record, then?

    Artus: He was a very bad Federal Reserve chairman. He created four major crises: savings and loans, LTCM, new-technology shares, and subprime mortgages.

    Nayeri: But surely you will acknowledge that Greenspan saved the planet at crucial turning points?

    Artus: Yes, but after the fact. He's congratulated for his role as fireman, but he's the one who started the fire.

    No Vision

    He had no vision of what was dangerous. Today, we're destroying the world banking system with this subprime crisis. Outstanding subprime loans add up to $1.2 trillion. That's the equivalent of Italy's gross domestic product.

    Nayeri: But the world has enjoyed economic prosperity in the meantime.

    Artus: The problem is that you pay for it later.

    You can always manufacture growth by having extremely low rates and producing asset-price bubbles. But that's not a way to generate growth. You can't do that in the long run.

    Nayeri: What about Trichet and the European Central Bank?

    Artus: It's the same thing, only there's no subprime crisis in Europe.

    (French President Nicolas) Sarkozy's criticism of the ECB is the opposite of mine. There is no evidence of any kind that European interest rates have slowed growth.

    In fact, monetary policy saved growth, which is usually weak, by producing a real-estate boom. But we're paying the price today. People are too deep in debt.

    Nayeri: So which central bank has done well by your reckoning?

    Artus: The most modern central banks are the Bank of England and the Bank of Sweden.

    The Bank of England is the only central bank that has factored real-estate prices into its policy making, and that also looks at exchange rates. It has a global vision of the economy, and that's what we like. They completely slipped up when it came to the banks, but that was the Financial Services Authority, it wasn't them.

    ``Les incendiaires'' is published by Perrin (175 pages, 14.80 euros.)



     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 12:09 PM ET #77

    Thats a great article and very true.

    Most people have little clue about Greenspam and the harm he did to the country and world.

    I think it is a GREAT idea for banks to freeze sub-prime loans..even though it probably isnt a longer term solution, if the country goes into a recession there will be foreclosures even with low rates, but it will help in the short term.  
    Reply
    Thats a great article and very true.

    Most people have little clue about Greenspam and the harm he did to the country and world.

    I think it is a GREAT idea for banks to freeze sub-prime loans..even though it probably isnt a longer term solution, if the country goes into a recession there will be foreclosures even with low rates, but it will help in the short term.  
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 12:13 PM ET #78

    Jeff,

    I had the March 90s on DRYS at a very low price and I sold them about 4 points ago.

    Same goes for SPWR options..let them go about 10 points early..which is a ton of cash to be left on the table.

    I still think DRYS is undervalued by 30 bucks..even at 140 the PE ratio for 2008 is very reasonable.
    Reply
    Jeff,

    I had the March 90s on DRYS at a very low price and I sold them about 4 points ago.

    Same goes for SPWR options..let them go about 10 points early..which is a ton of cash to be left on the table.

    I still think DRYS is undervalued by 30 bucks..even at 140 the PE ratio for 2008 is very reasonable.
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 12:58 PM ET #79


     The idea of a freeze is defensible on macroeconomic grounds I suppose, but the deal is this:it rewards everyone involved in what was (and is) essentially bank fraud. Pure and simple, every mortgage originator, every realtor, and every house flipper with no doc loans were involved in securities fraud.

     It goes to show the old adage remains true: owe a bank a hundred dollars, you are in trouble, owe them one hundred million, they are in trouble.

    Reply

     The idea of a freeze is defensible on macroeconomic grounds I suppose, but the deal is this:it rewards everyone involved in what was (and is) essentially bank fraud. Pure and simple, every mortgage originator, every realtor, and every house flipper with no doc loans were involved in securities fraud.

     It goes to show the old adage remains true: owe a bank a hundred dollars, you are in trouble, owe them one hundred million, they are in trouble.

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 1:02 PM ET #80

    Vermeer,

    I think it is a better solution than to let the ARMs to keep running and running and running.

    Idealistically it is a bad thing, but our SYSTEM and Federal Reserve allowed these things to be created, so there is plenty of blame to go around.

    I would rather see people given the choice if the property qualifies and THEY qualify, to for no cost, turn the ARM into a fixed rate loan.


    Reply
    Vermeer,

    I think it is a better solution than to let the ARMs to keep running and running and running.

    Idealistically it is a bad thing, but our SYSTEM and Federal Reserve allowed these things to be created, so there is plenty of blame to go around.

    I would rather see people given the choice if the property qualifies and THEY qualify, to for no cost, turn the ARM into a fixed rate loan.


     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 1:33 PM ET #81

    I agree...but again...massive securities fraud has occurred here.One would think, at the very least, the originators of no doc loans should be prosecuted. They essentially are nothing but counterfeiters.

     Secondly, one asks, is there not a class action suit open for all those holding such worthless crap securities? Is there not a case against C and others involved in promoting these things?

     Like I say, for purely macro reasons, sure, but the people, all of whom have banked millions or billions, should be thoroughly investigated and jailed, preferably rooming with Bubba and Nighttrain, who will let them really get an idea of what fucking people in the ass feels like.

     

    Reply
    I agree...but again...massive securities fraud has occurred here.One would think, at the very least, the originators of no doc loans should be prosecuted. They essentially are nothing but counterfeiters.

     Secondly, one asks, is there not a class action suit open for all those holding such worthless crap securities? Is there not a case against C and others involved in promoting these things?

     Like I say, for purely macro reasons, sure, but the people, all of whom have banked millions or billions, should be thoroughly investigated and jailed, preferably rooming with Bubba and Nighttrain, who will let them really get an idea of what fucking people in the ass feels like.

     

     
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 1:37 PM ET #82


    PS

    Rode teh SKF elevator up, got off, and now am looking to step back on...come on down a little more, and I hop on for another ride.This rate/save the financials fake rally another buying opp for me on SKF..

    Reply

    PS

    Rode teh SKF elevator up, got off, and now am looking to step back on...come on down a little more, and I hop on for another ride.This rate/save the financials fake rally another buying opp for me on SKF..

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 1:46 PM ET #83

    Vermeer,

    That is probably a good idea...the financials have rallied strong the last few days and even IF all this works out, I am not sure this means a bottom is in..I could be wrong and I own IMB as well.

    I think the MARKET has penalized the firms already..so even if there isnt a class action or litigation, the market has been the deliverer of justice by way of market cap erosion and profit elimination.

    I am in a quandry myself..I bot those DRYS shares and with the total purchases I am up 10 plus points on the stock and I am wondering if it might be prudent to take a profit..thats almost a 15% return again..one side of me wants to hold, the other part knows this market can take these gains away and MORE in a few days....


    Reply
    Vermeer,

    That is probably a good idea...the financials have rallied strong the last few days and even IF all this works out, I am not sure this means a bottom is in..I could be wrong and I own IMB as well.

    I think the MARKET has penalized the firms already..so even if there isnt a class action or litigation, the market has been the deliverer of justice by way of market cap erosion and profit elimination.

    I am in a quandry myself..I bot those DRYS shares and with the total purchases I am up 10 plus points on the stock and I am wondering if it might be prudent to take a profit..thats almost a 15% return again..one side of me wants to hold, the other part knows this market can take these gains away and MORE in a few days....


     
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 2:02 PM ET #84


      The firms perhaps WSC, but the actual people....who have banked millions in bonuses based solely on scamming people and ratings companies...and the very ratings companies themselves beng in bed with these types:at what point do actual individuals become responsible for knowingly ripping people off? Guys like Mozillo, et al...should be in jail, and shoulda been there months ago.And we know his earnings are not going to be frozen....

     As per taking profits, maybe take 1/2 and let the oter ride? Guess it depends on the internals, and really what your expectations are for that particular issue. I think we get a year end rally, are seeing it now and there is more to come I think...but once it starts to crumble, get out fast, as reality will set it again, and reality, sad to say, is not pretty, not pretty at all.

     
     


    Reply

      The firms perhaps WSC, but the actual people....who have banked millions in bonuses based solely on scamming people and ratings companies...and the very ratings companies themselves beng in bed with these types:at what point do actual individuals become responsible for knowingly ripping people off? Guys like Mozillo, et al...should be in jail, and shoulda been there months ago.And we know his earnings are not going to be frozen....

     As per taking profits, maybe take 1/2 and let the oter ride? Guess it depends on the internals, and really what your expectations are for that particular issue. I think we get a year end rally, are seeing it now and there is more to come I think...but once it starts to crumble, get out fast, as reality will set it again, and reality, sad to say, is not pretty, not pretty at all.

     
     


     
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 2:04 PM ET #85


     PS

    If you use netflix, grab a copy of The Smartest Guys in the Room...a bit dated, but really, Skilling and company were no wrose than CFC.

    Reply

     PS

    If you use netflix, grab a copy of The Smartest Guys in the Room...a bit dated, but really, Skilling and company were no wrose than CFC.

     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 2:18 PM ET #86


     You know em a lot better than I, but I like what I read on DRYS..

    With an overall grade of 72.3, DRYSHIPS INC is the highest graded company in the Marine sub-industry, followed by TBS INTERNATIONAL LTD (TBSI), with an overall grade of 70.7. The stock, up 87.23% in the last six months, has outperformed both the Marine group, up 7.42% and the S&P 500 Index, which has returned -5.87% in the same period.

    Reply

     You know em a lot better than I, but I like what I read on DRYS..

    With an overall grade of 72.3, DRYSHIPS INC is the highest graded company in the Marine sub-industry, followed by TBS INTERNATIONAL LTD (TBSI), with an overall grade of 70.7. The stock, up 87.23% in the last six months, has outperformed both the Marine group, up 7.42% and the S&P 500 Index, which has returned -5.87% in the same period.

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 2:42 PM ET #87

    Vermeer,

    Yeah DRYS has a forward PE of like 5..they are in a nice growth niche being a bulk carrier to China.

    You want to target the bonuses and excesses from the sub-prime, but man they are SMALL SMALL fish as to real crooks in the market. Investment banking and finance firms are 100 times worse crooks than these handsfulls of subprime crooks. The bigger firms like BAC and C etc on a percentage of "crookery" subprime really isnt much. It is the CFCs of the world who are the guilty parties.
    Reply
    Vermeer,

    Yeah DRYS has a forward PE of like 5..they are in a nice growth niche being a bulk carrier to China.

    You want to target the bonuses and excesses from the sub-prime, but man they are SMALL SMALL fish as to real crooks in the market. Investment banking and finance firms are 100 times worse crooks than these handsfulls of subprime crooks. The bigger firms like BAC and C etc on a percentage of "crookery" subprime really isnt much. It is the CFCs of the world who are the guilty parties.
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 3:18 PM ET #88

    Agrred as to the remarks on the guilty parties.

     what DRYs optins do you like? evrrything I look at seems heavy on the  premiums..just curious.

     No access to the market internals.Is this a fake rally here?? I smell a rat, whoo[ing it up in order to unload on people thinking we have hit bottom.But I am sounding paranoid....anyway, the CMCSA options are showing some life. The more I read on the situation the more it sounds like the cable companies won more than I thought.I don't think that clown director is going to get the absurd powers he was seeking for the government.
    Reply
    Agrred as to the remarks on the guilty parties.

     what DRYs optins do you like? evrrything I look at seems heavy on the  premiums..just curious.

     No access to the market internals.Is this a fake rally here?? I smell a rat, whoo[ing it up in order to unload on people thinking we have hit bottom.But I am sounding paranoid....anyway, the CMCSA options are showing some life. The more I read on the situation the more it sounds like the cable companies won more than I thought.I don't think that clown director is going to get the absurd powers he was seeking for the government.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 3:44 PM ET #89

    Vermeer,

    If the market comes in and say DRYS goes back to the high 70s again I would probably go with the March 85 or 90 contract.by then the stock should be split 3 for 1 (already announced) and that would be a 30 strike price..

    I hope you get back with those Comcast options..I would have a very hard time following Lenny because he chooses names I would not..plus his experience in the market isnt long enough to make me trust him on a trade.
    Reply
    Vermeer,

    If the market comes in and say DRYS goes back to the high 70s again I would probably go with the March 85 or 90 contract.by then the stock should be split 3 for 1 (already announced) and that would be a 30 strike price..

    I hope you get back with those Comcast options..I would have a very hard time following Lenny because he chooses names I would not..plus his experience in the market isnt long enough to make me trust him on a trade.
     
    boiler-room
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 4:00 PM ET #90

    Quote Originally Posted by Vermeer:


      The firms perhaps WSC, but the actual people....who have banked millions in bonuses based solely on scamming people and ratings companies...and the very ratings companies themselves beng in bed with these types:at what point do actual individuals become responsible for knowingly ripping people off? Guys like Mozillo, et al...should be in jail, and shoulda been there months ago.And we know his earnings are not going to be frozen....

     As per taking profits, maybe take 1/2 and let the oter ride? Guess it depends on the internals, and really what your expectations are for that particular issue. I think we get a year end rally, are seeing it now and there is more to come I think...but once it starts to crumble, get out fast, as reality will set it again, and reality, sad to say, is not pretty, not pretty at all.

     
     


      verm,, i have said before and as all here probably know this is all a game,and the game is rigged,,working in this industry as well as wall and others in this forum i see it all the time,,ratings companies? biggest fuckin crooks u will ever see,,as i have said here before ,if a firm or company puts out a sell rating on a stock for example,they probably want to drive the price down so they can begin to buy it up or build a position on the cheap,, conversely if they put out a buy rating they have plenty in inventory they want to sell at a higher price,,,go the other way of the ratings[touts],,just like fading in sports betting,,,tough to find some honest people in this buisness ,i have come across a lot of them from all spectrums,but when ther is large sums of money involved it makes people do things they wouldnt normally do,not to mention the oversight of brokers ,ceos, and the like is a joke which makes it easy to rob people,,,,, its easy to do the right thing when everyone is looking,,the true mark of a person is to do the right thing when no one is looking
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Vermeer:


      The firms perhaps WSC, but the actual people....who have banked millions in bonuses based solely on scamming people and ratings companies...and the very ratings companies themselves beng in bed with these types:at what point do actual individuals become responsible for knowingly ripping people off? Guys like Mozillo, et al...should be in jail, and shoulda been there months ago.And we know his earnings are not going to be frozen....

     As per taking profits, maybe take 1/2 and let the oter ride? Guess it depends on the internals, and really what your expectations are for that particular issue. I think we get a year end rally, are seeing it now and there is more to come I think...but once it starts to crumble, get out fast, as reality will set it again, and reality, sad to say, is not pretty, not pretty at all.

     
     


      verm,, i have said before and as all here probably know this is all a game,and the game is rigged,,working in this industry as well as wall and others in this forum i see it all the time,,ratings companies? biggest fuckin crooks u will ever see,,as i have said here before ,if a firm or company puts out a sell rating on a stock for example,they probably want to drive the price down so they can begin to buy it up or build a position on the cheap,, conversely if they put out a buy rating they have plenty in inventory they want to sell at a higher price,,,go the other way of the ratings[touts],,just like fading in sports betting,,,tough to find some honest people in this buisness ,i have come across a lot of them from all spectrums,but when ther is large sums of money involved it makes people do things they wouldnt normally do,not to mention the oversight of brokers ,ceos, and the like is a joke which makes it easy to rob people,,,,, its easy to do the right thing when everyone is looking,,the true mark of a person is to do the right thing when no one is looking
     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 4:00 PM ET #91


     I use him as a screener in a way...I usually chew over what he looks at for a (sometimes too) long time before committing to any play.It is all speculation money anyway, not investment money. But I don't like losing in anything, so...I probably devote too much time agonizing over those selections.
    I remain curious as to whether he could ever make money in a bear market with such a strategy.
    On the other hand, in the bull we have enjoyed this year, I have lost only once on 13 plays with him, and that one loss was my fault for bailing out too early:he ended up winning on it.
     I will be looking at DRYs options as well.

     I sense this rally is a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. After Dec 12 we shall know...but..I think this is a bull trap really.
     

     
     

    Reply

     I use him as a screener in a way...I usually chew over what he looks at for a (sometimes too) long time before committing to any play.It is all speculation money anyway, not investment money. But I don't like losing in anything, so...I probably devote too much time agonizing over those selections.
    I remain curious as to whether he could ever make money in a bear market with such a strategy.
    On the other hand, in the bull we have enjoyed this year, I have lost only once on 13 plays with him, and that one loss was my fault for bailing out too early:he ended up winning on it.
     I will be looking at DRYs options as well.

     I sense this rally is a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. After Dec 12 we shall know...but..I think this is a bull trap really.
     

     
     

     
    Vermeer
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 4:03 PM ET #92


     The weekend has officially begun...am off to Total Beverage to shop for some New Years cheer...have a good weekend!!



    Reply

     The weekend has officially begun...am off to Total Beverage to shop for some New Years cheer...have a good weekend!!



     
    boiler-room
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 4:20 PM ET #93

    im down with the booze verm...,,,im goin to the garden 2nite ,hopefully i can throw my empty beers at isiah thomas,,,,2nite it is over in the fresno football game,over in wash st. coll. hoops and duquesne in coll. hoops....gl
    Reply
    im down with the booze verm...,,,im goin to the garden 2nite ,hopefully i can throw my empty beers at isiah thomas,,,,2nite it is over in the fresno football game,over in wash st. coll. hoops and duquesne in coll. hoops....gl
     
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 5:06 PM ET #94

    Vermeer,

    I can say with strong certainty that a bear market would completely cash out Dykstra..he would get wiped out. He is a product of a bull market.

    People forget that rags like The Street.com were wildly popular back when the market was going crazy. It was at one point at 50 bucks!!! Then the market took a bath and so did they.. I thought they might not make it. Now that the market is cooking, they are too and all their columnists and all the Bull clowns get put on tv.

    Guys like Dykstra are like Blodgett, who was a hero when things were hot and you didnt hear about him for YEARS during bear markets.

    Nah...tread lightly with long sided guys..especially inexperienced ones like him..those who were in the market during the hype of the late 90s and 2000s know that the little guy got punished and it will happen again.  
    Reply
    Vermeer,

    I can say with strong certainty that a bear market would completely cash out Dykstra..he would get wiped out. He is a product of a bull market.

    People forget that rags like The Street.com were wildly popular back when the market was going crazy. It was at one point at 50 bucks!!! Then the market took a bath and so did they.. I thought they might not make it. Now that the market is cooking, they are too and all their columnists and all the Bull clowns get put on tv.

    Guys like Dykstra are like Blodgett, who was a hero when things were hot and you didnt hear about him for YEARS during bear markets.

    Nah...tread lightly with long sided guys..especially inexperienced ones like him..those who were in the market during the hype of the late 90s and 2000s know that the little guy got punished and it will happen again.  
     
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    Posted: Nov. 30, 2007 - 6:29 PM ET #95

      BR

     Lob an empty, or a six pack, at that jerk Thomas for me.The worst GM, now worst coach, in the league, no competition.The Kniks of Willis Reed and Dollar Bill Bradley deserve more.
     
      I think the same for Nails' strategy in a bear WSC. Going to sharpen up on shorting myself, the storm is about to start in '08.


      I bought some Eagle Rare single barrel bourbon (here's to sipping whiskey!!) and a couple of bottles of cheap but tasty 1=1=3 cava.

     Cheers!!

     Taking Va Tech (yuck) over BC in football, and taking Boston -3...Garnett and company for real baby, and glad to see him get to play with real players for a change.
    Reply
      BR

     Lob an empty, or a six pack, at that jerk Thomas for me.The worst GM, now worst coach, in the league, no competition.The Kniks of Willis Reed and Dollar Bill Bradley deserve more.
     
      I think the same for Nails' strategy in a bear WSC. Going to sharpen up on shorting myself, the storm is about to start in '08.


      I bought some Eagle Rare single barrel bourbon (here's to sipping whiskey!!) and a couple of bottles of cheap but tasty 1=1=3 cava.

     Cheers!!

     Taking Va Tech (yuck) over BC in football, and taking Boston -3...Garnett and company for real baby, and glad to see him get to play with real players for a change.
     
    Gridophiles
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 12:27 PM ET #96

    I would appreciate hearing anyones thoughts on ETFC.  Giving some consideration to holding my nose and going in Monday morning. 
     
    However, I'm having a tough time getting my head around the fact that Citadel invested 2.5 billion into a company with a market cap of 1.9 billion, even with the loan shark interest rate.
     
     
    Reply
    I would appreciate hearing anyones thoughts on ETFC.  Giving some consideration to holding my nose and going in Monday morning. 
     
    However, I'm having a tough time getting my head around the fact that Citadel invested 2.5 billion into a company with a market cap of 1.9 billion, even with the loan shark interest rate.
     
     
     
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 1:27 PM ET #97

     I have not looked into that at great length simply as I already know I don't have the sack to take that risk, not when there is so much other risk in the market.Could pay off, I suppose, but so could something a LOT safer...but that is just me.

    Reply
     I have not looked into that at great length simply as I already know I don't have the sack to take that risk, not when there is so much other risk in the market.Could pay off, I suppose, but so could something a LOT safer...but that is just me.

     
    Gridophiles
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 1:44 PM ET #98

    The following was a letter posted on their website.  No question there's a lot of risk here.  I'm also not sure how much business was lost because of this fiasco:
     

    This morning we announced that E*TRADE FINANCIAL has strengthened its capital position and eliminated exposure to the types of mortgage securities that have been generating business losses, as well as headlines, over the last several months. This has been accomplished through a strategic transaction with affiliates of Citadel Investment Group.

    As part of this transaction, E*TRADE has received a $2.5 billion capital infusion. This transaction, led by affiliates of Citadel, not only strengthens our capital position but also represents a significant vote of confidence from one of the world's leading investment firms. Further, Citadel has removed the entire $3 billion asset-backed securities portfolio from the Company's balance sheet, solving our most significant balance sheet issue. Citadel understands we have been faced with a challenged balance sheet, not a challenged business.

    While we have remained well capitalized by regulatory standards throughout the current credit storm, we have heard the concerns raised by our customers. Today, we have taken action to address these concerns. Our goal throughout this process has been to reinforce customer confidence and to set the foundation for our future. From this point forward our customers can be assured that E*TRADE FINANCIAL has no exposure to securities such as CDOs, Alt-A or second lien asset-backed securities.

    As we turn the page to a new chapter, the reasons that you have chosen E*TRADE as your financial service provider—industry leading value, innovative products and strong service–remain as true as ever, and we will continue to work hard to exceed your expectations today, tomorrow and well into the future.

    We appreciate your business and continued loyalty. Thanks for sticking with us.


    Jarrett Lilien
    Acting Chief Executive Officer, E*TRADE FINANCIAL
    Reply
    The following was a letter posted on their website.  No question there's a lot of risk here.  I'm also not sure how much business was lost because of this fiasco:
     

    This morning we announced that E*TRADE FINANCIAL has strengthened its capital position and eliminated exposure to the types of mortgage securities that have been generating business losses, as well as headlines, over the last several months. This has been accomplished through a strategic transaction with affiliates of Citadel Investment Group.

    As part of this transaction, E*TRADE has received a $2.5 billion capital infusion. This transaction, led by affiliates of Citadel, not only strengthens our capital position but also represents a significant vote of confidence from one of the world's leading investment firms. Further, Citadel has removed the entire $3 billion asset-backed securities portfolio from the Company's balance sheet, solving our most significant balance sheet issue. Citadel understands we have been faced with a challenged balance sheet, not a challenged business.

    While we have remained well capitalized by regulatory standards throughout the current credit storm, we have heard the concerns raised by our customers. Today, we have taken action to address these concerns. Our goal throughout this process has been to reinforce customer confidence and to set the foundation for our future. From this point forward our customers can be assured that E*TRADE FINANCIAL has no exposure to securities such as CDOs, Alt-A or second lien asset-backed securities.

    As we turn the page to a new chapter, the reasons that you have chosen E*TRADE as your financial service provider—industry leading value, innovative products and strong service–remain as true as ever, and we will continue to work hard to exceed your expectations today, tomorrow and well into the future.

    We appreciate your business and continued loyalty. Thanks for sticking with us.


    Jarrett Lilien
    Acting Chief Executive Officer, E*TRADE FINANCIAL
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 2:35 PM ET #99

    It probably means they are trying to sell themselves.

    It also means they took a monster hit on their portfolio, and was that money a LOAN or a sale of assets?

    If it was a loan then it is TERRIBLE.

    Now if Citadel took possession of the asset backed securities in lieu of that cash, thats a different story.

    Loan= very very bad since it is a liability
    Sale of mortgages is a good thing.

    More research is needed.
    Reply
    It probably means they are trying to sell themselves.

    It also means they took a monster hit on their portfolio, and was that money a LOAN or a sale of assets?

    If it was a loan then it is TERRIBLE.

    Now if Citadel took possession of the asset backed securities in lieu of that cash, thats a different story.

    Loan= very very bad since it is a liability
    Sale of mortgages is a good thing.

    More research is needed.
     
     
    Gridophiles
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 3:23 PM ET #100

    WSC,
     
    Originally I thought it was a loan, using the mortgages as collateral.  But after reading their posted letter, I'm not so sure.  Could be they're just putting a big red ribbon on a stinking piece of crap with that letter.
     
    I'll keep on with the DD over the weekend.
     
     
    Reply
    WSC,
     
    Originally I thought it was a loan, using the mortgages as collateral.  But after reading their posted letter, I'm not so sure.  Could be they're just putting a big red ribbon on a stinking piece of crap with that letter.
     
    I'll keep on with the DD over the weekend.
     
     
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