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    All Forums | Investments

    November Stock Talk VII

    «First Previous 12345
    wallstreetcappers
    Gridophiles
    claycourtlesson
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 1865
    Posts: 109
    «First Previous 12345
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 3:26 PM ET #101

    I need to look it over myself.

    If it is a loan then all they did is swap CDO liabilities to a loan..which is better I guess but they also took a 500M hit in doing so.

    If it is a sale, then they take the hit and move on but the liability is gone and cash is asset..and that isnt so bad.

    I will snoop and see.

    Either way it seems like they are trying to sell themselves or at least shed themselves of the bad part of the business.  
    Reply
    I need to look it over myself.

    If it is a loan then all they did is swap CDO liabilities to a loan..which is better I guess but they also took a 500M hit in doing so.

    If it is a sale, then they take the hit and move on but the liability is gone and cash is asset..and that isnt so bad.

    I will snoop and see.

    Either way it seems like they are trying to sell themselves or at least shed themselves of the bad part of the business.  
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 3:34 PM ET #102

    Just got my answer and it ISNT good-

    That view extends to a $3 billion portfolio of E*Trade's mortgages and other securities, which Citadel now has agreed to buy from E*Trade for $800 million. Citadel also is injecting $1.75 billion into E*Trade, in exchange for 10-year E*Trade notes that pay it 12.5% interest and shares boosting its stake to almost 20% of E*Trade's stock outstanding.

    Etrade sold 3B of loans for 800M and will pay 12.5% on the 1.75B loan over 10 yrs.

    This is awful putting it lightly. They took a 2 plus BILLION dollar hit on the CDOs and will be paying HUGE interest expense for the loan and shares. I would also be interested in seeing how cheap they got the shares.

    This news was out on Wed...not a reason to buy the stock on Monday.
    Reply
    Just got my answer and it ISNT good-

    That view extends to a $3 billion portfolio of E*Trade's mortgages and other securities, which Citadel now has agreed to buy from E*Trade for $800 million. Citadel also is injecting $1.75 billion into E*Trade, in exchange for 10-year E*Trade notes that pay it 12.5% interest and shares boosting its stake to almost 20% of E*Trade's stock outstanding.

    Etrade sold 3B of loans for 800M and will pay 12.5% on the 1.75B loan over 10 yrs.

    This is awful putting it lightly. They took a 2 plus BILLION dollar hit on the CDOs and will be paying HUGE interest expense for the loan and shares. I would also be interested in seeing how cheap they got the shares.

    This news was out on Wed...not a reason to buy the stock on Monday.
     
    Gridophiles
    Gridophiles
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 3:50 PM ET #103

    OK, this is coming back to me now.  I think I was getting this and the Citi deal confused.  Anyway, here is a good read.  Of the 2.55 billion, 800 million takes the 3 billion loan agreements of the etfc books and Citadel assumes those.  The balance of the 1.75 billion takes the form of notes paying a hefty 12.5% interest, AND Citadel gets 84 million shares of stock for doing absoultely nothing.
     
    This quote from the article pretty much sums it up:
     
    Hecht said shareholders, in contrast, "suffer (more than) 40 percent earnings per share dilution and 100 percent tangible equity dilution."
     
    I'd say etfc is pretty much f'ed. 
     
    I'm more of a trader by nature than an investor, but I will only trade in companies I wouldn't mind going long with.  ETFC is not a company with very much upside potential (on it's own merits) for a very long time, and there is no way in hell would I want to be long with them.
     
    https://biz.yahoo.com/rb/071129/etrade_citadel.html?.v=7
    Reply
    OK, this is coming back to me now.  I think I was getting this and the Citi deal confused.  Anyway, here is a good read.  Of the 2.55 billion, 800 million takes the 3 billion loan agreements of the etfc books and Citadel assumes those.  The balance of the 1.75 billion takes the form of notes paying a hefty 12.5% interest, AND Citadel gets 84 million shares of stock for doing absoultely nothing.
     
    This quote from the article pretty much sums it up:
     
    Hecht said shareholders, in contrast, "suffer (more than) 40 percent earnings per share dilution and 100 percent tangible equity dilution."
     
    I'd say etfc is pretty much f'ed. 
     
    I'm more of a trader by nature than an investor, but I will only trade in companies I wouldn't mind going long with.  ETFC is not a company with very much upside potential (on it's own merits) for a very long time, and there is no way in hell would I want to be long with them.
     
    https://biz.yahoo.com/rb/071129/etrade_citadel.html?.v=7
     
    Gridophiles
    Gridophiles
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 3:53 PM ET #104

    Sorry WSC, didn't see your post prior to mine.
    Reply
    Sorry WSC, didn't see your post prior to mine.
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 4:18 PM ET #105

    Grid,

    No problem!

    We all work as a team to get as much info out as possible.

    Terrible terms to say the least for Etrade..if they need the cash that bad for those terms it cannot be a good thing.  
    Reply
    Grid,

    No problem!

    We all work as a team to get as much info out as possible.

    Terrible terms to say the least for Etrade..if they need the cash that bad for those terms it cannot be a good thing.  
     
    Gridophiles
    Gridophiles
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 4:37 PM ET #106

    Agreed.  With those terms, there had to be a run on the bank/brokerage and were desperate for a deal getting done asap.  Plus the 84 million shares to Citadel for no compensation.......wtf.
    Reply
    Agreed.  With those terms, there had to be a run on the bank/brokerage and were desperate for a deal getting done asap.  Plus the 84 million shares to Citadel for no compensation.......wtf.
     
    claycourtlesson
    claycourtlesson
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    Posts: 14917
    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 5:55 PM ET #107

    ETFC will sell itself to Ameritrade for any price.  The executives at ETFC who oversaw this mess shall all be fired, but the board will go to Ameritrade.
     
    This deal has been in the works for about a decade.....now it'll get done for about 3 dollars a share.
     
    Unbelievable.
     
    No, it is.  Wall Street is nothing but liars and crooks.....the bottom of the barrel.....along with all of us degenerate gamblers who'd sell anything for the right price.  Let's face it.....scummy industry....and I guess when you lie down with pigs, you're bound to stink.
     
    Not meaning to ruffle anyone's feathers here......just telling it like it is.
    Reply
    ETFC will sell itself to Ameritrade for any price.  The executives at ETFC who oversaw this mess shall all be fired, but the board will go to Ameritrade.
     
    This deal has been in the works for about a decade.....now it'll get done for about 3 dollars a share.
     
    Unbelievable.
     
    No, it is.  Wall Street is nothing but liars and crooks.....the bottom of the barrel.....along with all of us degenerate gamblers who'd sell anything for the right price.  Let's face it.....scummy industry....and I guess when you lie down with pigs, you're bound to stink.
     
    Not meaning to ruffle anyone's feathers here......just telling it like it is.
     
    claycourtlesson
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 6:00 PM ET #108

    In the interim, I hope my holdings go the right way for me and that I can win some money gambling on sports.....the sooner the better.  Yesterday is too late, goddarn it!!!!
     
    Current Holdings:
     
    SPWR (129ish)----LONG HAUL
    MSFT (34ish)-----LONG HAUL
    GTLS (26ish)------LONG HAUL
    CRDC (9ish)------LONG HAUL
    US Dollar------LONG HAUL
    SPY Short (145.5)------SHORT TERM "TRADE"
     
    Gambling and selling out for a higher price...............
    Reply
    In the interim, I hope my holdings go the right way for me and that I can win some money gambling on sports.....the sooner the better.  Yesterday is too late, goddarn it!!!!
     
    Current Holdings:
     
    SPWR (129ish)----LONG HAUL
    MSFT (34ish)-----LONG HAUL
    GTLS (26ish)------LONG HAUL
    CRDC (9ish)------LONG HAUL
    US Dollar------LONG HAUL
    SPY Short (145.5)------SHORT TERM "TRADE"
     
    Gambling and selling out for a higher price...............
     
     
    claycourtlesson
    claycourtlesson
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    Joined: Jan, 2006
    Posts: 14917
    Posted: Dec. 1, 2007 - 6:01 PM ET #109

    "In God's house, you shine you glitter, and sell your soul to the highest bidder."
    Reply
    "In God's house, you shine you glitter, and sell your soul to the highest bidder."
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