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    All Forums | Investments

    debts

    itsbadlands
    jaxwhitey
    Dsn150
    $PLIFF$
    wallstreetcappers
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    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 1:35 PM ET #1

    I have a question which i felt would be better asked in this forum since there seems like there's plenty of old timers or just people who know what the hell they're talking about....so.....I see alot of people in here saying get out of your debt and pay it off etc.I have been told by numerous people that i have been kissed/blessed with what i just did b4 the shit hit the fan and allow me to explain:
    I had an adjustable rate mortgage(ARM) and a home equity line with a significant amount of credit card debt because I was juggling 2 houses for almost a year while I renovated the house I'm in now and then moved in and dumped the other house with a profit-luckily.I am a jack of all trades and was riding the real estate market with buying/fixing/selling but then came my children and the decline in the market so it lead to some struggles and I'm now down to check to check but I am surviving and my job is secure.My wife is unemployed but I would rather her not work anyway since it would all be pissed away on day care etc.so in any case,i refinanced and rolled all my debt from credit cards and the 2 mortgages-or 1 mortgage and 1 home equity(same shit) into one payment and scored on my percentage rate since everything was going down as well as i waited for the paperwork process and all to go through.So I am now as some would say,"debt free" which I dont agree with since the debt is now part of my house etc.but luckily all the work I did on this house increased the worth by roughly 75,000 and I qualified etc etc.
    so heres my question:as I said everyone says get rid of your debt so is what I did a blessing or not?I closed the deal and signed the papers 2 days b4 all hell broke loose and I only have my mortgage and normal bills,i.e. gas/food/fuel/cable/electric to pay now.Am I as lucky as most people I know say or is it possible that banks crash and lenders crash and I could lose my house anyway even if I am paying it all?Can I technically just get booted out of my house or would I be okay since I'm one of the good ones who pay my bills?
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    I have a question which i felt would be better asked in this forum since there seems like there's plenty of old timers or just people who know what the hell they're talking about....so.....I see alot of people in here saying get out of your debt and pay it off etc.I have been told by numerous people that i have been kissed/blessed with what i just did b4 the shit hit the fan and allow me to explain:
    I had an adjustable rate mortgage(ARM) and a home equity line with a significant amount of credit card debt because I was juggling 2 houses for almost a year while I renovated the house I'm in now and then moved in and dumped the other house with a profit-luckily.I am a jack of all trades and was riding the real estate market with buying/fixing/selling but then came my children and the decline in the market so it lead to some struggles and I'm now down to check to check but I am surviving and my job is secure.My wife is unemployed but I would rather her not work anyway since it would all be pissed away on day care etc.so in any case,i refinanced and rolled all my debt from credit cards and the 2 mortgages-or 1 mortgage and 1 home equity(same shit) into one payment and scored on my percentage rate since everything was going down as well as i waited for the paperwork process and all to go through.So I am now as some would say,"debt free" which I dont agree with since the debt is now part of my house etc.but luckily all the work I did on this house increased the worth by roughly 75,000 and I qualified etc etc.
    so heres my question:as I said everyone says get rid of your debt so is what I did a blessing or not?I closed the deal and signed the papers 2 days b4 all hell broke loose and I only have my mortgage and normal bills,i.e. gas/food/fuel/cable/electric to pay now.Am I as lucky as most people I know say or is it possible that banks crash and lenders crash and I could lose my house anyway even if I am paying it all?Can I technically just get booted out of my house or would I be okay since I'm one of the good ones who pay my bills?
     
    jaxwhitey
    jaxwhitey
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 1:42 PM ET #2

    I would not have rolled credit card debt into a mortgage.  All you did was push the problem further out in time, you did not actually fix it.

    You really should start putting money away in case of an emergency.  You have kids, a wife and you are the only one bringing in any income.  You should probably stop using credit cards as well since that will only tempt you to run up more debt in the future.  It sounds like you are living close to the edge, try to reduce monthly expenses and don't buy anything unless you absolutely need it.
    Reply
    I would not have rolled credit card debt into a mortgage.  All you did was push the problem further out in time, you did not actually fix it.

    You really should start putting money away in case of an emergency.  You have kids, a wife and you are the only one bringing in any income.  You should probably stop using credit cards as well since that will only tempt you to run up more debt in the future.  It sounds like you are living close to the edge, try to reduce monthly expenses and don't buy anything unless you absolutely need it.
     
    jaxwhitey
    jaxwhitey
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 1:44 PM ET #3

    If the bank that holds your mortgage does go under, your morgage will be sold to another bank and they will collect on the same terms that you have now.  I am assuming you now have a fixed rate mortgage
    Reply
    If the bank that holds your mortgage does go under, your morgage will be sold to another bank and they will collect on the same terms that you have now.  I am assuming you now have a fixed rate mortgage
     
    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 2:00 PM ET #4

    we dont spend recklessly,dont go out to eat go shopping only when neccesary and i dont use the cards now.i didnt cancel them but i destroyed them except for one for emergancy.See,i can go without but I would never deprive my children so I will always put their needs b4 mine.But it's like you said,I didnt make the debt go away -its still there.however i got a way better interest rate then if i kept the debt on cards and the home equity line was way too high as well.so percentage wise,the deal was great in a sense or so it appears to be anyway.its not like i was gonna miracleously come up with the money to pay it all off anyway ya know?
    I also work weekends doing side jobs to put money away for us also.I have no clue on stocks and all since I dont trust anyone with money so thats out of my options......call it ignorance i guess.
    Reply
    we dont spend recklessly,dont go out to eat go shopping only when neccesary and i dont use the cards now.i didnt cancel them but i destroyed them except for one for emergancy.See,i can go without but I would never deprive my children so I will always put their needs b4 mine.But it's like you said,I didnt make the debt go away -its still there.however i got a way better interest rate then if i kept the debt on cards and the home equity line was way too high as well.so percentage wise,the deal was great in a sense or so it appears to be anyway.its not like i was gonna miracleously come up with the money to pay it all off anyway ya know?
    I also work weekends doing side jobs to put money away for us also.I have no clue on stocks and all since I dont trust anyone with money so thats out of my options......call it ignorance i guess.
     
    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 2:00 PM ET #5

    yes i have a 30 yr fixed now
    Reply
    yes i have a 30 yr fixed now
     
    jaxwhitey
    jaxwhitey
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 2:14 PM ET #6

    Sounds like you are making some good decisions now.  The only thing I might have done differently is calling the credit card companies to try to get a lower rate or even have them lower the balance.  Lowering the balance sounds crazy but they do occasionally do it, they know that getting something is better than getting nothing.

    Live within your means and you will be OK.  That is what most people in the country can't/won't do and that is how they get into trouble.
    Reply
    Sounds like you are making some good decisions now.  The only thing I might have done differently is calling the credit card companies to try to get a lower rate or even have them lower the balance.  Lowering the balance sounds crazy but they do occasionally do it, they know that getting something is better than getting nothing.

    Live within your means and you will be OK.  That is what most people in the country can't/won't do and that is how they get into trouble.
     
    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 2:17 PM ET #7

    thankyou for your insight and advice,i wish you well also
    Reply
    thankyou for your insight and advice,i wish you well also
     
    Dsn150
    Dsn150
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 8:00 PM ET #8

    If I understand correctly, you consolidated essentially all of your debt into the mortgage of your primary residence.  While you will pay a ton of extra interest on the credit card debt ( I personally would have left that out and paid it down separately and hopefully quickly ), it is now more tax-efficient debt.  By that I mean that now all of the interest you are paying is deductible as mortgage interest rather than just paid with no tax benefit.  Perhaps an accountant could weigh in here to confirm or refute my thoughts.  I did something similar about 4 years ago, rolling an investment property into my home mortgage to get a benefit on the interest.


    Reply
    If I understand correctly, you consolidated essentially all of your debt into the mortgage of your primary residence.  While you will pay a ton of extra interest on the credit card debt ( I personally would have left that out and paid it down separately and hopefully quickly ), it is now more tax-efficient debt.  By that I mean that now all of the interest you are paying is deductible as mortgage interest rather than just paid with no tax benefit.  Perhaps an accountant could weigh in here to confirm or refute my thoughts.  I did something similar about 4 years ago, rolling an investment property into my home mortgage to get a benefit on the interest.


     
    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 8:26 PM ET #9

    dsn-i believe you are correct and i'll also be able to use the closing costs on my taxes at the end of the year which will give me more back.My thing is the credit cards interest was way too much to just continue to pay it down each month.when i was juggling the 2 houses it took a huge toll on my savings and lead to credit cards as the only way to put food on the table so i had to do what i had to do.i plan on paying these credit cards as if they still exist-in other words,send more money each month to knock down my principle at the better interest rate and basically ill be paying them off if that makes sense since theyre in my mortgage now.I totally understand that i didnt get rid of that debt and my house is still worth alot more than i now have a mortgage on it for so when i do sell when the market goes up in like 5 years or so i'll see money come back to me then.It's just a matter of survival at this point in time and my wife will go back to work once she finds a job that will compensate us enough to be able to pay daycare and have extra money coming in again.actually she used to make more money than mebut ive been promoted since then and i make what she used to.in any case,we're not in bad shape but its tight and can be done as long as i keep everything in control and nothing bad should happen in between.As long as I continue to pay off the cards with the side money i make on side jobs by putting it towards the principle i think i did a good thing.yes-i could have had them take money off of what i owed to the cards and asked for favors but they come with a price-i'd have that against me on my credit-not good.so like i said-i continue to talk about credit cards as if they still exist because they do-just in my mortgage now.hopefully that makes sense
    Reply
    dsn-i believe you are correct and i'll also be able to use the closing costs on my taxes at the end of the year which will give me more back.My thing is the credit cards interest was way too much to just continue to pay it down each month.when i was juggling the 2 houses it took a huge toll on my savings and lead to credit cards as the only way to put food on the table so i had to do what i had to do.i plan on paying these credit cards as if they still exist-in other words,send more money each month to knock down my principle at the better interest rate and basically ill be paying them off if that makes sense since theyre in my mortgage now.I totally understand that i didnt get rid of that debt and my house is still worth alot more than i now have a mortgage on it for so when i do sell when the market goes up in like 5 years or so i'll see money come back to me then.It's just a matter of survival at this point in time and my wife will go back to work once she finds a job that will compensate us enough to be able to pay daycare and have extra money coming in again.actually she used to make more money than mebut ive been promoted since then and i make what she used to.in any case,we're not in bad shape but its tight and can be done as long as i keep everything in control and nothing bad should happen in between.As long as I continue to pay off the cards with the side money i make on side jobs by putting it towards the principle i think i did a good thing.yes-i could have had them take money off of what i owed to the cards and asked for favors but they come with a price-i'd have that against me on my credit-not good.so like i said-i continue to talk about credit cards as if they still exist because they do-just in my mortgage now.hopefully that makes sense
     
    $PLIFF$
    $PLIFF$
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 9:58 PM ET #10

    Quote Originally Posted by jaxwhitey:

    I would not have rolled credit card debt into a mortgage.  All you did was push the problem further out in time, you did not actually fix it.

    You really should start putting money away in case of an emergency.  You have kids, a wife and you are the only one bringing in any income.  You should probably stop using credit cards as well since that will only tempt you to run up more debt in the future.  It sounds like you are living close to the edge, try to reduce monthly expenses and don't buy anything unless you absolutely need it.

    Please don't listen to this idiot...you did a good thing by rolling it into your mortgage. Credit card rates go all the way up to 30%! With your mortgage stretched over 30 yr fixed, say at 7-8% I think that makes a huge difference.

    Yes continue to use your credit card, just not too much. You have to show activity on your cards to establish credit.

    I know this since I was a seasoned loan officer for 5 years.

    Good luck!

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by jaxwhitey:

    I would not have rolled credit card debt into a mortgage.  All you did was push the problem further out in time, you did not actually fix it.

    You really should start putting money away in case of an emergency.  You have kids, a wife and you are the only one bringing in any income.  You should probably stop using credit cards as well since that will only tempt you to run up more debt in the future.  It sounds like you are living close to the edge, try to reduce monthly expenses and don't buy anything unless you absolutely need it.

    Please don't listen to this idiot...you did a good thing by rolling it into your mortgage. Credit card rates go all the way up to 30%! With your mortgage stretched over 30 yr fixed, say at 7-8% I think that makes a huge difference.

    Yes continue to use your credit card, just not too much. You have to show activity on your cards to establish credit.

    I know this since I was a seasoned loan officer for 5 years.

    Good luck!

     
    Dsn150
    Dsn150
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 10:27 PM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by $PLIFF$:

    Please don't listen to this idiot...you did a good thing by rolling it into your mortgage. Credit card rates go all the way up to 30%! With your mortgage stretched over 30 yr fixed, say at 7-8% I think that makes a huge difference.

    Yes continue to use your credit card, just not too much. You have to show activity on your cards to establish credit.

    I know this since I was a seasoned loan officer for 5 years.

    Good luck!


    I guess it depends on the $ of CC debt- if we're talking 5K or less- maybe keeping it out of the mortgage would make sense.  If we're talking 30K- then rolling it in makes sense.  I agree that CC rates balloon.  Sounds like he's on the right track either way- I would say well done, but limit the CC debt accumulating going forward if possible.  Easy to say when you're not the guy responsible for putting the food on the table and paying the notes- no passing judgement by me.  You make the best decisions you can based on the situation you're in.  BOL.  
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by $PLIFF$:

    Please don't listen to this idiot...you did a good thing by rolling it into your mortgage. Credit card rates go all the way up to 30%! With your mortgage stretched over 30 yr fixed, say at 7-8% I think that makes a huge difference.

    Yes continue to use your credit card, just not too much. You have to show activity on your cards to establish credit.

    I know this since I was a seasoned loan officer for 5 years.

    Good luck!


    I guess it depends on the $ of CC debt- if we're talking 5K or less- maybe keeping it out of the mortgage would make sense.  If we're talking 30K- then rolling it in makes sense.  I agree that CC rates balloon.  Sounds like he's on the right track either way- I would say well done, but limit the CC debt accumulating going forward if possible.  Easy to say when you're not the guy responsible for putting the food on the table and paying the notes- no passing judgement by me.  You make the best decisions you can based on the situation you're in.  BOL.  
     
    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 10:29 PM ET #12

    yes spilffs i got a new rate at 6% for 30 yrs.my cards were 12%,9%,21% and 22%.the 2 higher ones being home depot and lowes.My regular mortgage was 6.75% and home equity was 10.75% I think if I had made this clear from the beginning it would have made more sense.On one card alone I was paying like almost 200 a month on finance chargesif I add it all up-I was basically pissing away around 500 a month just on finance charges/interest.The more I think about this the more I know i did the right thing here especially if I continue to pay extra to the ass end of the mortgage.Also-I do understand to keep small balances on cards and will do that.I alternate cards with gas/tolls etc just to have credit flowing and pay them off at months end.however-the one card was just way too much to sit on and that was the only card i wanted to get rid of and put into my mortgage.however,the bank would not allow it and made me pay them all off through them.So like I said,I'll continue to pay extra on the principle as if I was paying off them cards anyway and it will hopefully be well worth it in the long run.
    Reply
    yes spilffs i got a new rate at 6% for 30 yrs.my cards were 12%,9%,21% and 22%.the 2 higher ones being home depot and lowes.My regular mortgage was 6.75% and home equity was 10.75% I think if I had made this clear from the beginning it would have made more sense.On one card alone I was paying like almost 200 a month on finance chargesif I add it all up-I was basically pissing away around 500 a month just on finance charges/interest.The more I think about this the more I know i did the right thing here especially if I continue to pay extra to the ass end of the mortgage.Also-I do understand to keep small balances on cards and will do that.I alternate cards with gas/tolls etc just to have credit flowing and pay them off at months end.however-the one card was just way too much to sit on and that was the only card i wanted to get rid of and put into my mortgage.however,the bank would not allow it and made me pay them all off through them.So like I said,I'll continue to pay extra on the principle as if I was paying off them cards anyway and it will hopefully be well worth it in the long run.
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 10:32 PM ET #13

    Quote Originally Posted by $PLIFF$:

    Please don't listen to this idiot...you did a good thing by rolling it into your mortgage. Credit card rates go all the way up to 30%! With your mortgage stretched over 30 yr fixed, say at 7-8% I think that makes a huge difference.

    Yes continue to use your credit card, just not too much. You have to show activity on your cards to establish credit.

    I know this since I was a seasoned loan officer for 5 years.

    Good luck!



    First off please refrain from calling someone an idiot that you disagree with.

    Second of course you will have that opinion being a mortgage officer.

    Third, actually I completely agree with Dsn on his opinion. So you are dumping consumer debt into a 15-20 year amortized mortgage, and it should NOT be tax deductible but people break the law and do it anyway.

    If you have consumer debt it is my opinion that you pay it outside your mortgage and do not leverage your house on debt that is not adding VALUE to the investment. A second should be for an addition or upgrade on the house, not a flush fund for car loans and consumer debt.

    Pretty bad advice and calling someone an idiot to boot.


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by $PLIFF$:

    Please don't listen to this idiot...you did a good thing by rolling it into your mortgage. Credit card rates go all the way up to 30%! With your mortgage stretched over 30 yr fixed, say at 7-8% I think that makes a huge difference.

    Yes continue to use your credit card, just not too much. You have to show activity on your cards to establish credit.

    I know this since I was a seasoned loan officer for 5 years.

    Good luck!



    First off please refrain from calling someone an idiot that you disagree with.

    Second of course you will have that opinion being a mortgage officer.

    Third, actually I completely agree with Dsn on his opinion. So you are dumping consumer debt into a 15-20 year amortized mortgage, and it should NOT be tax deductible but people break the law and do it anyway.

    If you have consumer debt it is my opinion that you pay it outside your mortgage and do not leverage your house on debt that is not adding VALUE to the investment. A second should be for an addition or upgrade on the house, not a flush fund for car loans and consumer debt.

    Pretty bad advice and calling someone an idiot to boot.


     
    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 10:50 PM ET #14

    wallstreet-like I said,I am also a jack of all trades and will most definitely be adding on to this house.I am building a detached garage 1st thing and then I am putting 4 bedrooms and 2 baths on an upperfloor.At least that is what I hope to do,but worse case scenerio I can definitely afford to add on to the back of my house with a huge master bedroom and full bath and another room-either a family room or dining room.I am on 2/3 of an acre which in jersey is a big lot and I have the land to go out the back or up as I said.Going up would cost alot more but add a huge value to the house.going out the back of the house would give me alot of money also but I'd rather go up.Once the wife and I decide if we want to stay in this house the decision will be made on going up or just putting an addition in the back,making some more cash and hauling ass.
    Reply
    wallstreet-like I said,I am also a jack of all trades and will most definitely be adding on to this house.I am building a detached garage 1st thing and then I am putting 4 bedrooms and 2 baths on an upperfloor.At least that is what I hope to do,but worse case scenerio I can definitely afford to add on to the back of my house with a huge master bedroom and full bath and another room-either a family room or dining room.I am on 2/3 of an acre which in jersey is a big lot and I have the land to go out the back or up as I said.Going up would cost alot more but add a huge value to the house.going out the back of the house would give me alot of money also but I'd rather go up.Once the wife and I decide if we want to stay in this house the decision will be made on going up or just putting an addition in the back,making some more cash and hauling ass.
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 11:03 PM ET #15

    badlands,

    My comment wasnt towards what you said, rather the abrasive reply from the mortgage broker.

    Reply
    badlands,

    My comment wasnt towards what you said, rather the abrasive reply from the mortgage broker.

     
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 11:04 PM ET #16

    hey wall street-please explain what law is broken?If I have the equity in the house and choose to put more money on the mortgage-when I go to sell it comes out of the house anyway.The reason this house appraised higher now is because i gutted it down to bare studs and rebuilt the whole house from scratch.I put in all new electric-plumbing-drywall-hardwood floors-insulation kitchen/bathroom-appliances you name it.so alot of my debt came from renovations for the house as well as survivng as a family until I sold the other house and officially moved us all here.Problem was I needed to dump the other house in the end and take what I could since the real estate market was on a downward spiral and I should have made alot more than I had to take in the end.That was what got me into this situation to begin with.I basically gave the people who bought that house a huge friggin gift since they will be able to stay there and reap all my profits I lost-not being able to swing 2 houses.
    Reply
    hey wall street-please explain what law is broken?If I have the equity in the house and choose to put more money on the mortgage-when I go to sell it comes out of the house anyway.The reason this house appraised higher now is because i gutted it down to bare studs and rebuilt the whole house from scratch.I put in all new electric-plumbing-drywall-hardwood floors-insulation kitchen/bathroom-appliances you name it.so alot of my debt came from renovations for the house as well as survivng as a family until I sold the other house and officially moved us all here.Problem was I needed to dump the other house in the end and take what I could since the real estate market was on a downward spiral and I should have made alot more than I had to take in the end.That was what got me into this situation to begin with.I basically gave the people who bought that house a huge friggin gift since they will be able to stay there and reap all my profits I lost-not being able to swing 2 houses.
     
    itsbadlands
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 11:06 PM ET #17

    understood wall-I was actually hoping to hear from you on this because i respect your opinion.I thought the idiot remark was wrong myself and just let it go since Im not one to argue when I know all of you are trying to help me out.I thank all of you.
    Reply
    understood wall-I was actually hoping to hear from you on this because i respect your opinion.I thought the idiot remark was wrong myself and just let it go since Im not one to argue when I know all of you are trying to help me out.I thank all of you.
     
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 11:09 PM ET #18

    let me add-this house was the definition of abortion gone wrong when I bought it.I went from the closing to here and had a dumpster in the driveway the same day ripping the entire house apart and throwing it in the dumpster.The neighbors thought I was insane.Ya should have seen the look on their faces as I was carrying out walls and bath tubs and shit and throwing it into the driveway b4 the dumpster got here
    Reply
    let me add-this house was the definition of abortion gone wrong when I bought it.I went from the closing to here and had a dumpster in the driveway the same day ripping the entire house apart and throwing it in the dumpster.The neighbors thought I was insane.Ya should have seen the look on their faces as I was carrying out walls and bath tubs and shit and throwing it into the driveway b4 the dumpster got here
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 11:33 PM ET #19

    badlands,

    By definition the interest to be tax deductible needs to meet a very stringent set of guidelines.

    You can read up on it from the IRS website but for the most part in order to qualify it has to be debt which related to the house in someway, like improving it or adding on to it etc.

    The reason for the deduction in the first place is that it is a residence. Notice that if you own another home that isnt primary residence it also has to qualify to be deductible..

    The IRS rules are very standard and strict but enforcing the rule is impossible.

    Ive done the dumpster action before, the neighbor should be happy, you improving the house is improving the neighborhood and thus his property too.

    If you used the money from the second to improve the house you are good to go, my comment was that the rules are strict and people break them all the time.
    Reply
    badlands,

    By definition the interest to be tax deductible needs to meet a very stringent set of guidelines.

    You can read up on it from the IRS website but for the most part in order to qualify it has to be debt which related to the house in someway, like improving it or adding on to it etc.

    The reason for the deduction in the first place is that it is a residence. Notice that if you own another home that isnt primary residence it also has to qualify to be deductible..

    The IRS rules are very standard and strict but enforcing the rule is impossible.

    Ive done the dumpster action before, the neighbor should be happy, you improving the house is improving the neighborhood and thus his property too.

    If you used the money from the second to improve the house you are good to go, my comment was that the rules are strict and people break them all the time.
     
     
    itsbadlands
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    Posted: Oct. 2, 2008 - 11:37 PM ET #20

    understood-thanks wall,your advice is always appreciated
    Reply
    understood-thanks wall,your advice is always appreciated
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