Maybe the Germans would have won. I doubt they could hold all of Eurasia but they could have. Would they have crossed the ocean to capture North America?
There might not be communism. America wouldn't have 15 aircraft carriers fighting everyone who looks at them funny. France and Spain would be speaking German. Wall street and N.A.S.A. could have been in Canada or not exist at all. There would be no football! No Russian vodka. No UN.
The only certainty is America would not be the King if Japan didn't kick them in the face and enrage them for 70+ years.
To remove first post, remove entire topic.
What do you think?
Maybe the Germans would have won. I doubt they could hold all of Eurasia but they could have. Would they have crossed the ocean to capture North America?
There might not be communism. America wouldn't have 15 aircraft carriers fighting everyone who looks at them funny. France and Spain would be speaking German. Wall street and N.A.S.A. could have been in Canada or not exist at all. There would be no football! No Russian vodka. No UN.
The only certainty is America would not be the King if Japan didn't kick them in the face and enrage them for 70+ years.
Japan forgot that you need lots of oil and metal to fight a war, especially with China. They decided to plow into the Philipines for both and ran into trouble with the USA. They decided to keep going and declare war on America for more oil.
None of it went well. We kicked their as sses island to island.
Being part of the Axis, Germany had to align with the yaps. That didn't go well either. Hitler had Europe if he didn't over extend himself. Then again - he was insane and loaded up on Pendathol. Aka as meth.
Philipinos owe us btw for saving their butts..
Japan forgot that you need lots of oil and metal to fight a war, especially with China. They decided to plow into the Philipines for both and ran into trouble with the USA. They decided to keep going and declare war on America for more oil.
None of it went well. We kicked their as sses island to island.
Being part of the Axis, Germany had to align with the yaps. That didn't go well either. Hitler had Europe if he didn't over extend himself. Then again - he was insane and loaded up on Pendathol. Aka as meth.
Honestly I don't think much would be different at all...
If Japan never attacked Pearl Harbour I believe the US would have still entered the war at some point in time as the German threats became more imminent. However, being able to solely focus on fighting in Europe and not having to deal with the Pacific theatre might have resulted in the defeat of the Nazis maybe a year or so earlier and another million or 2 person would still be alive. Other than that, everything that followed post-war and in the Cold War would have probably developed in a very similar manner.
The only caveat I will add that could have possibly changed everything is that obviously nobody would have dropped an atomic bomb on Japan. It would have still been developed and both the US and the Soviets would have still been armed to the hilt with nukes, but without having previously seen the complete and utter devastation that dropping an atomic bomb causes, one country or the other might have been a little more trigger happy with the launch button setting off the chain reaction of retaliation that was really everyone's greatest fear during the Cold War period.
Honestly I don't think much would be different at all...
If Japan never attacked Pearl Harbour I believe the US would have still entered the war at some point in time as the German threats became more imminent. However, being able to solely focus on fighting in Europe and not having to deal with the Pacific theatre might have resulted in the defeat of the Nazis maybe a year or so earlier and another million or 2 person would still be alive. Other than that, everything that followed post-war and in the Cold War would have probably developed in a very similar manner.
The only caveat I will add that could have possibly changed everything is that obviously nobody would have dropped an atomic bomb on Japan. It would have still been developed and both the US and the Soviets would have still been armed to the hilt with nukes, but without having previously seen the complete and utter devastation that dropping an atomic bomb causes, one country or the other might have been a little more trigger happy with the launch button setting off the chain reaction of retaliation that was really everyone's greatest fear during the Cold War period.
The Germans actually developed the physics and technology to build the nuclear bomb, we captured their scientists and forced them to show us how to build it. Fancy that.
Germans also designed the jet aircraft with swept wing that we use to this day. ME 262
Developed synthetic motor oil because their oil reserves were low.
Those guys were so far ahead of and the soviets it a wonder we stopped them.
The Germans actually developed the physics and technology to build the nuclear bomb, we captured their scientists and forced them to show us how to build it. Fancy that.
Germans also designed the jet aircraft with swept wing that we use to this day. ME 262
Developed synthetic motor oil because their oil reserves were low.
Those guys were so far ahead of and the soviets it a wonder we stopped them.
The Germans actually developed the physics and technology to build the nuclear bomb, we captured their scientists and forced them to show us how to build it. Fancy that.
Germans also designed the jet aircraft with swept wing that we use to this day. ME 262
Developed synthetic motor oil because their oil reserves were low.
Those guys were so far ahead of and the soviets it a wonder we stopped them.
WHERE did you come up with THIS one ??? the people that developed the atom bomb were pretty much all Americans with a few ex-patriot Europeans likeEdward Teller, Enrico Fermi, David Bohm, Leo Szilard and Otto Frisch thrown in. the Germans lead by Erich Schumann never developed a working bomb
another question about "could the Germans have won WWII" and Japan IS WHY did the Japanese NOT honor their Axis Pact and attach the Soviet Union in their east ?? Moscow was saved early on in the German invasion when the Soviets, knowing Japan would NOT attack. was able to bring divisions in from Siberia to defend Moscow. HUGH "war changer"
Quote Originally Posted by searchwarrant:
The Germans actually developed the physics and technology to build the nuclear bomb, we captured their scientists and forced them to show us how to build it. Fancy that.
Germans also designed the jet aircraft with swept wing that we use to this day. ME 262
Developed synthetic motor oil because their oil reserves were low.
Those guys were so far ahead of and the soviets it a wonder we stopped them.
WHERE did you come up with THIS one ??? the people that developed the atom bomb were pretty much all Americans with a few ex-patriot Europeans likeEdward Teller, Enrico Fermi, David Bohm, Leo Szilard and Otto Frisch thrown in. the Germans lead by Erich Schumann never developed a working bomb
another question about "could the Germans have won WWII" and Japan IS WHY did the Japanese NOT honor their Axis Pact and attach the Soviet Union in their east ?? Moscow was saved early on in the German invasion when the Soviets, knowing Japan would NOT attack. was able to bring divisions in from Siberia to defend Moscow. HUGH "war changer"
It's late but your facts are completely wrong. The concept of nuclear weapons use was developed by a German member of the nazi party.. The construction of the bomb was created with money and U.S physicists that were able to construct plutonium and uranium into a package.
Moscow was saved only because Hitler despised Joseph Stalin. German troops were on the front door of Moscow until Hitler gave the order to invade Stalingrad. German troops were lost half of their force for nothing. Moscow was never saved, it was saved because Adolf made a tremendous mistake. Stalingrad was meaningless, but the city was named after J Stalin so they proceeded.
Are you familiar with Operation Fortitude? Had that NOT worked, the allies would have been pushed right back into the ocean. Romel insisted that over 500,000+ seasoned troops be moved to Normandy on invasion, Hitler ignored his advice.
We can go on all day.
The last portion of your question makes no sense, please re write.
It's late but your facts are completely wrong. The concept of nuclear weapons use was developed by a German member of the nazi party.. The construction of the bomb was created with money and U.S physicists that were able to construct plutonium and uranium into a package.
Moscow was saved only because Hitler despised Joseph Stalin. German troops were on the front door of Moscow until Hitler gave the order to invade Stalingrad. German troops were lost half of their force for nothing. Moscow was never saved, it was saved because Adolf made a tremendous mistake. Stalingrad was meaningless, but the city was named after J Stalin so they proceeded.
Are you familiar with Operation Fortitude? Had that NOT worked, the allies would have been pushed right back into the ocean. Romel insisted that over 500,000+ seasoned troops be moved to Normandy on invasion, Hitler ignored his advice.
We can go on all day.
The last portion of your question makes no sense, please re write.
Lookup Uranverein. The German project developing nukes way before the U.S. you'll see the names. We grabbed them.
I did look up the "Uranverein" when researching to see IF I had missed anything in the German atomic program during WWII and it states right in the 2nd paragraph on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_weapon_project that "Eventually it was assessed that nuclear fission would not contribute significantly to ending the war" so the Germans abandoned trying to build an A-bomb in favor of funding other weapons systems. another major reason the Germans were never able to develop an A-bomb was the Nazi's anti-semitic racism. that had had driven many J*ewish physicists, engineers, and mathematicians out of Germany as early as 1933. many went on to work for American and British research programs.
as for the Japanese NOT attacking the Soviet Union in the east, that WAS a major factor in providing Soviet troops for both the defense of Moscow AND later Stalingrad. it is true that Hitler saw Stalingrad as a political prize because of the name BUT it also had great strategic importance to both sides. the loss of the city would have cut off the Soviets supply of petroleum from the Baku oil fields via the Volga river
I believe that THE two "turning points" in WWII where the Battle of Stalingrad in Europe AND the Battle of Midway in the pacific. after the loss of the 6th Army at Stalingrad, the Germans were pretty much on the defensive. at Midway the American Navy sank the four Japanese aircraft carriers that were the pride of their fleet and lost most of their trained pilots and mechanics. they were never able to mount a major Naval Air offensive after that
Quote Originally Posted by searchwarrant:
Lookup Uranverein. The German project developing nukes way before the U.S. you'll see the names. We grabbed them.
I did look up the "Uranverein" when researching to see IF I had missed anything in the German atomic program during WWII and it states right in the 2nd paragraph on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_weapon_project that "Eventually it was assessed that nuclear fission would not contribute significantly to ending the war" so the Germans abandoned trying to build an A-bomb in favor of funding other weapons systems. another major reason the Germans were never able to develop an A-bomb was the Nazi's anti-semitic racism. that had had driven many J*ewish physicists, engineers, and mathematicians out of Germany as early as 1933. many went on to work for American and British research programs.
as for the Japanese NOT attacking the Soviet Union in the east, that WAS a major factor in providing Soviet troops for both the defense of Moscow AND later Stalingrad. it is true that Hitler saw Stalingrad as a political prize because of the name BUT it also had great strategic importance to both sides. the loss of the city would have cut off the Soviets supply of petroleum from the Baku oil fields via the Volga river
I believe that THE two "turning points" in WWII where the Battle of Stalingrad in Europe AND the Battle of Midway in the pacific. after the loss of the 6th Army at Stalingrad, the Germans were pretty much on the defensive. at Midway the American Navy sank the four Japanese aircraft carriers that were the pride of their fleet and lost most of their trained pilots and mechanics. they were never able to mount a major Naval Air offensive after that
Yup, the code break at Midway was thing of beauty and definitely the broken back.. Poor American bomber pilots had to fly in to that yap fleet on suicide missions in order to set up the runs for American fighters. but they were heroes. I think we sunk every single boat they had.
Always a fun topic to discuss at the liquor store just after being thrown out.
Rink, The Germans were ahead of the U.S in nuclear research.
How about the MG-42? Holy chit, best gun in all of WWII.
The Battle of Britian also was another Hitler screw up. Why didn't he take the French Navy and then dominate the English Channel? Churchill picked up on his error and sank every French navy ship in the harbor. That move won over the support of all of Britian.
They called him a savage though.
Yup, the code break at Midway was thing of beauty and definitely the broken back.. Poor American bomber pilots had to fly in to that yap fleet on suicide missions in order to set up the runs for American fighters. but they were heroes. I think we sunk every single boat they had.
Always a fun topic to discuss at the liquor store just after being thrown out.
Rink, The Germans were ahead of the U.S in nuclear research.
How about the MG-42? Holy chit, best gun in all of WWII.
The Battle of Britian also was another Hitler screw up. Why didn't he take the French Navy and then dominate the English Channel? Churchill picked up on his error and sank every French navy ship in the harbor. That move won over the support of all of Britian.
Yup, the code break at Midway was thing of beauty and definitely the broken back.. Poor American bomber pilots had to fly in to that yap fleet on suicide missions in order to set up the runs for American fighters. but they were heroes. I think we sunk every single boat they had.
Always a fun topic to discuss at the liquor store just after being thrown out.
Rink, The Germans were ahead of the U.S in nuclear research.
How about the MG-42? Holy chit, best gun in all of WWII.
The Battle of Britian also was another Hitler screw up. Why didn't he take the French Navy and then dominate the English Channel? Churchill picked up on his error and sank every French navy ship in the harbor. That move won over the support of all of Britian.
They called him a savage though.
hey there is NO doubt the Germans and even the Japanese developed some of the BEST "state of the art" weapons of WWII. you mentioned the "Maschinengewehr 42" (MG-42) light machine gun nick named "Hitler's Buzz Saw" because of it's ungodly rate of fire and ease of transport. it could be serviced by a two man crew. also the Germans were the first to develop a true "assault rifle" the "Sturmgewehr 44" and of course the V-1 "buzz bomb" cruise missile and V-2 ballistic missile. also the ME-262 the first "swept wing" operational jet fighter in history BUT, from what I have read, they were NEVER really "ahead" of the Allies in A-bomb research
the Japanese had arguably THE best torpedo, the "Long Lance", during the war which had much greater range and did NOT leave a "bubbles wake" like German or American "steam torpedos" because it used pure oxygen rather than compressed air on it's fuel mix for more efficient combustion
Quote Originally Posted by searchwarrant:
Yup, the code break at Midway was thing of beauty and definitely the broken back.. Poor American bomber pilots had to fly in to that yap fleet on suicide missions in order to set up the runs for American fighters. but they were heroes. I think we sunk every single boat they had.
Always a fun topic to discuss at the liquor store just after being thrown out.
Rink, The Germans were ahead of the U.S in nuclear research.
How about the MG-42? Holy chit, best gun in all of WWII.
The Battle of Britian also was another Hitler screw up. Why didn't he take the French Navy and then dominate the English Channel? Churchill picked up on his error and sank every French navy ship in the harbor. That move won over the support of all of Britian.
They called him a savage though.
hey there is NO doubt the Germans and even the Japanese developed some of the BEST "state of the art" weapons of WWII. you mentioned the "Maschinengewehr 42" (MG-42) light machine gun nick named "Hitler's Buzz Saw" because of it's ungodly rate of fire and ease of transport. it could be serviced by a two man crew. also the Germans were the first to develop a true "assault rifle" the "Sturmgewehr 44" and of course the V-1 "buzz bomb" cruise missile and V-2 ballistic missile. also the ME-262 the first "swept wing" operational jet fighter in history BUT, from what I have read, they were NEVER really "ahead" of the Allies in A-bomb research
the Japanese had arguably THE best torpedo, the "Long Lance", during the war which had much greater range and did NOT leave a "bubbles wake" like German or American "steam torpedos" because it used pure oxygen rather than compressed air on it's fuel mix for more efficient combustion
Didn't know about the j ap torpedos. The U boats owned the seas with pretty much anything that came out of the tube. Wake or not your ship is headed for the bottom of the ocean.
American GI's used to call the MG-42 a bed sheet tear or something close to that. The sounds of one being fired was exactly the same..
Yes sir on the swept wing. Germans invented the jet fighter which led to our modern aviation technology of the swept wing.to this day.
I'm just free handing all of this without exact details, read a thousand books on WWII. Amazing part of our history.
The Enigma. now that's a hell of a conversation that really turned the tides in our favor. That and radar which the British made a deal with the United States to show us how to make it work.
Didn't know about the j ap torpedos. The U boats owned the seas with pretty much anything that came out of the tube. Wake or not your ship is headed for the bottom of the ocean.
American GI's used to call the MG-42 a bed sheet tear or something close to that. The sounds of one being fired was exactly the same..
Yes sir on the swept wing. Germans invented the jet fighter which led to our modern aviation technology of the swept wing.to this day.
I'm just free handing all of this without exact details, read a thousand books on WWII. Amazing part of our history.
The Enigma. now that's a hell of a conversation that really turned the tides in our favor. That and radar which the British made a deal with the United States to show us how to make it work.
Amazing isn't it. and all of us are not even skimming the surface.
Some of the stories I'd like to tell based upon all that I've read will blow your mind.
Rink, I want you to look up the casualty rate in the United States compared to the American troop deaths. The number is incredible but I've forgotten the statistics.. Weapon factories were close if not exceeding as the most dangerous place to be during the entire war effort..
Quote Originally Posted by Slobbasaurus:
Interesting stuff fellas.
Amazing isn't it. and all of us are not even skimming the surface.
Some of the stories I'd like to tell based upon all that I've read will blow your mind.
Rink, I want you to look up the casualty rate in the United States compared to the American troop deaths. The number is incredible but I've forgotten the statistics.. Weapon factories were close if not exceeding as the most dangerous place to be during the entire war effort..
WHERE did you come up with THIS one ??? the people that developed the atom bomb were pretty much all Americans with a few ex-patriot Europeans likeEdward Teller, Enrico Fermi, David Bohm, Leo Szilard and Otto Frisch thrown in. the Germans lead by Erich Schumann never developed a working bomb
another question about "could the Germans have won WWII" and Japan IS WHY did the Japanese NOT honor their Axis Pact and attach the Soviet Union in their east ?? Moscow was saved early on in the German invasion when the Soviets, knowing Japan would NOT attack. was able to bring divisions in from Siberia to defend Moscow. HUGH "war changer"
The Birth of the Atomic Age
In October 1939, just after the outbreak of World War II in Europe, the President of the United States Franklin D. Roosevelt received a letter from physicist Albert Einstein and his Hungarian colleague Leo Szilard, calling to his attention the prospect that a bomb of unprecedented power could be made by tapping the forces of nuclear fission. The two scientists, who had fled from Europe in order to escape Nazism, feared that Hitler-Germany was already working on the problem. Should the Germans be the first to develop the envisaged "atomic bomb," Hitler would have a weapon at his disposal that would make it possible for him to destroy his enemies and rule the world.
Quote Originally Posted by LeRinkRat:
WHERE did you come up with THIS one ??? the people that developed the atom bomb were pretty much all Americans with a few ex-patriot Europeans likeEdward Teller, Enrico Fermi, David Bohm, Leo Szilard and Otto Frisch thrown in. the Germans lead by Erich Schumann never developed a working bomb
another question about "could the Germans have won WWII" and Japan IS WHY did the Japanese NOT honor their Axis Pact and attach the Soviet Union in their east ?? Moscow was saved early on in the German invasion when the Soviets, knowing Japan would NOT attack. was able to bring divisions in from Siberia to defend Moscow. HUGH "war changer"
The Birth of the Atomic Age
In October 1939, just after the outbreak of World War II in Europe, the President of the United States Franklin D. Roosevelt received a letter from physicist Albert Einstein and his Hungarian colleague Leo Szilard, calling to his attention the prospect that a bomb of unprecedented power could be made by tapping the forces of nuclear fission. The two scientists, who had fled from Europe in order to escape Nazism, feared that Hitler-Germany was already working on the problem. Should the Germans be the first to develop the envisaged "atomic bomb," Hitler would have a weapon at his disposal that would make it possible for him to destroy his enemies and rule the world.
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