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    All Forums | General Discussion

    New Penn St Rumor

    «First Previous 123
    rk223
    badlands
    PokeSmot13
    Skipbone
    MaineRoad
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 6068
    Posts: 69
    «First Previous 123
     
    rk223
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 7:25 PM ET #51

    Maine, awesome theory, I think you nailed it right on the head..

    As far as hearsay is concerned, the witness testimony is NOT hearsay.  Hearsay would be a statement made out of court offered for the truth of the matter asserted.  

    (Ex. me testifying the following, "McQueery told me he saw Sandusky assulting a kid.")

    McQueery's potential testimony, "I saw Sandusky assaulting a kid" is NOT hearsay.

    Paterno's potential testimony, "McQueery told me he saw Sandusky assaulting a kid" is hearsay if the statement is being used to prove sandusky is assaulting a kid.  If it is being used to prove what Paterno knew or what information he passed onto the AD, it is not hearsay.

    Also, you have the testimony of the 9 (possibly more victims) along with the police investigation, lord knows what evidence the police have in their possession.  Along with the janitor who saw a separate assault. Speaking from an outsider, this is a pretty damning case and the evidence against sandusky looks pretty solid to me. 

    Since these guys are all testifying to their personal knowledge, and since Sandusky's Attorney has an opportunity to cross examine the witnesses regarding their statements, this is NOT hearsay.


    Took me three bar exams to figure this out..lol
    Reply
    Maine, awesome theory, I think you nailed it right on the head..

    As far as hearsay is concerned, the witness testimony is NOT hearsay.  Hearsay would be a statement made out of court offered for the truth of the matter asserted.  

    (Ex. me testifying the following, "McQueery told me he saw Sandusky assulting a kid.")

    McQueery's potential testimony, "I saw Sandusky assaulting a kid" is NOT hearsay.

    Paterno's potential testimony, "McQueery told me he saw Sandusky assaulting a kid" is hearsay if the statement is being used to prove sandusky is assaulting a kid.  If it is being used to prove what Paterno knew or what information he passed onto the AD, it is not hearsay.

    Also, you have the testimony of the 9 (possibly more victims) along with the police investigation, lord knows what evidence the police have in their possession.  Along with the janitor who saw a separate assault. Speaking from an outsider, this is a pretty damning case and the evidence against sandusky looks pretty solid to me. 

    Since these guys are all testifying to their personal knowledge, and since Sandusky's Attorney has an opportunity to cross examine the witnesses regarding their statements, this is NOT hearsay.


    Took me three bar exams to figure this out..lol
     
    badlands
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 7:26 PM ET #52

    Quote Originally Posted by PokeSmot13:

    If he makes it to jail, he'll probably be a trophy kill for someone.  Just like that priest a few years ago


    or a trophy gang bang 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by PokeSmot13:

    If he makes it to jail, he'll probably be a trophy kill for someone.  Just like that priest a few years ago


    or a trophy gang bang 
     
    PokeSmot13
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 7:26 PM ET #53

    Quote Originally Posted by badlands:


    or a trophy gang bang 

    WELCOME TO OZ, BITCH!! LOL

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by badlands:


    or a trophy gang bang 

    WELCOME TO OZ, BITCH!! LOL

     
    rk223
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 7:36 PM ET #54

    Hey Maine, Im gonna repost ur theory on FB..haha..
    Reply
    Hey Maine, Im gonna repost ur theory on FB..haha..
     
    Skipbone
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 7:59 PM ET #55

    Quote Originally Posted by badlands:

    good shit maine...i agree 100% 

     

    BS...you guys watch too much TV

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by badlands:

    good shit maine...i agree 100% 

     

    BS...you guys watch too much TV

     
    MaineRoad
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 8:16 PM ET #56

    Quote Originally Posted by rk223:

    Hey Maine, Im gonna repost ur theory on FB..haha..

    I'd be honored.    There will, of course, be a small fee. 

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by rk223:

    Hey Maine, Im gonna repost ur theory on FB..haha..

    I'd be honored.    There will, of course, be a small fee. 

     
    badlands
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 8:21 PM ET #57

    Quote Originally Posted by Skipbone:

     

    BS...you guys watch too much TV


    or we know how to read.. if you learn how to read anytime soon read the grand jury indictment....are you capable of that? if not i ll give my cell and i can read it to you...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Skipbone:

     

    BS...you guys watch too much TV


    or we know how to read.. if you learn how to read anytime soon read the grand jury indictment....are you capable of that? if not i ll give my cell and i can read it to you...
     
    tafter12
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 8:32 PM ET #58

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRoad:

    I have sort of a long-winded theory about Paterno, sort of along the lines of what Badlands was alluding to.  I put it in an email to a couple of my CFB pals earlier today (read if interested):

    Like a lot of people, I suspect, I’ve been trying to reconcile the Paterno I’ve seen over the course of my life with the astounding allegations of the past week.  I think I may finally have figured it out…

     

    Joe was raised a poor Italian kid in Brooklyn, at a time when there were a lot of colorful, and connected, characters running around.  Perhaps it’s no coincidence then that his reaction to the Sandusky matter was much more Vito Corleone than Bear Bryant.  First, “we handle this ourselves.  No outsiders.”  In this case, that meant allegations of child rape were addressed not by the PSU or State College Police, the Centre County Sheriff or even the PA State Boys.  Nope, they were “taken care of” in-house.  Second, Joe probably thought he had imposed the ultimate penalty on Sandusky: “today, I turn my back on you; you’re out of the family business.”  In the Nittany Family, there was no greater sanction.  Having taken that step Don Joe probably thought he had done all he could do.

     

    But, dark glasses and Italian surname aside, Joe wasn’t actually a Don.  He couldn’t just have Jerry whacked in the Pine Barrens.  So, having made this despicable bargain [“you will retire quietly; and this will be the last we speak of this”], Coach Paterno was now in a bit of a spot.  When Sandusky came poking around looking for access to the PSU name and its facilities, Joe was hard-pressed to tell him no.  Sure, he could turn Sandusky in, but how could he possibly explain the previous deal he had made previously?  Sandusky (obviously a very sick man) then continued to leverage his PSU connection to prey on little boys for another decade or so.  In the end, Don JoPa turned out to be just a football coach.

     

    When I first saw the news of the Board’s decision last night, I assumed they were sticking it to Joe – paying him back for not leaving when they told him to five years ago – and that their refusal to allow him a final home game was needlessly mean-spirited.  The more I learn, though, it seems like they might actually have been trying to do him a favor.  This is only going to get worse for him.

     

     



    Excellent points.

    I believe PSU was doing Joe P a favor as well now that you mention it.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRoad:

    I have sort of a long-winded theory about Paterno, sort of along the lines of what Badlands was alluding to.  I put it in an email to a couple of my CFB pals earlier today (read if interested):

    Like a lot of people, I suspect, I’ve been trying to reconcile the Paterno I’ve seen over the course of my life with the astounding allegations of the past week.  I think I may finally have figured it out…

     

    Joe was raised a poor Italian kid in Brooklyn, at a time when there were a lot of colorful, and connected, characters running around.  Perhaps it’s no coincidence then that his reaction to the Sandusky matter was much more Vito Corleone than Bear Bryant.  First, “we handle this ourselves.  No outsiders.”  In this case, that meant allegations of child rape were addressed not by the PSU or State College Police, the Centre County Sheriff or even the PA State Boys.  Nope, they were “taken care of” in-house.  Second, Joe probably thought he had imposed the ultimate penalty on Sandusky: “today, I turn my back on you; you’re out of the family business.”  In the Nittany Family, there was no greater sanction.  Having taken that step Don Joe probably thought he had done all he could do.

     

    But, dark glasses and Italian surname aside, Joe wasn’t actually a Don.  He couldn’t just have Jerry whacked in the Pine Barrens.  So, having made this despicable bargain [“you will retire quietly; and this will be the last we speak of this”], Coach Paterno was now in a bit of a spot.  When Sandusky came poking around looking for access to the PSU name and its facilities, Joe was hard-pressed to tell him no.  Sure, he could turn Sandusky in, but how could he possibly explain the previous deal he had made previously?  Sandusky (obviously a very sick man) then continued to leverage his PSU connection to prey on little boys for another decade or so.  In the end, Don JoPa turned out to be just a football coach.

     

    When I first saw the news of the Board’s decision last night, I assumed they were sticking it to Joe – paying him back for not leaving when they told him to five years ago – and that their refusal to allow him a final home game was needlessly mean-spirited.  The more I learn, though, it seems like they might actually have been trying to do him a favor.  This is only going to get worse for him.

     

     



    Excellent points.

    I believe PSU was doing Joe P a favor as well now that you mention it.
     
    Skyclad
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 8:35 PM ET #59

    these ''coaches '' better be glad it didnt happen several years ago or they would all be swinging from the center of the goal posts ..no tolerance for this type behavior ..give me a nice murderer anytime ..
    Reply
    these ''coaches '' better be glad it didnt happen several years ago or they would all be swinging from the center of the goal posts ..no tolerance for this type behavior ..give me a nice murderer anytime ..
     
    Skipster
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 8:40 PM ET #60

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRoad:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice4Blood:

    holy fuck!  just goes to show, the blind support for those implicated is way out of line...

    Seriously, right?  Those of us who are not PSU fans I think haveoften found the "JoPa" stuff a little over the top, but Jesus, it sounds like it was Jonestown over there.    To think that numerous people apparently turned a blind eye (and worse) to seriel child rape is simply incomprehensible.  You couldn't make this up  - nobody would believe you .



    if you tried to write a novel or movie with this plot you'd get laughed right out of the office.  Nobody would believe it.


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRoad:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice4Blood:

    holy fuck!  just goes to show, the blind support for those implicated is way out of line...

    Seriously, right?  Those of us who are not PSU fans I think haveoften found the "JoPa" stuff a little over the top, but Jesus, it sounds like it was Jonestown over there.    To think that numerous people apparently turned a blind eye (and worse) to seriel child rape is simply incomprehensible.  You couldn't make this up  - nobody would believe you .



    if you tried to write a novel or movie with this plot you'd get laughed right out of the office.  Nobody would believe it.


     
    blowoutgm
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 9:01 PM ET #61

    And now Joe Pa has hired a prominant criminal attorney- things are getting more and more interesting!!
    Reply
    And now Joe Pa has hired a prominant criminal attorney- things are getting more and more interesting!!
     
    jasonwhitesknee
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 9:30 PM ET #62

    Quote Originally Posted by blowoutgm:

    And now Joe Pa has hired a prominant criminal attorney- things are getting more and more interesting!!

    EXACTLY!!!  Can't even fathom sticking up for this man.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by blowoutgm:

    And now Joe Pa has hired a prominant criminal attorney- things are getting more and more interesting!!

    EXACTLY!!!  Can't even fathom sticking up for this man.
     
    depeche2
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 9:39 PM ET #63

    Quote Originally Posted by badlands:


    paterno hasnt doen anything else. this is what paterno is guilty of...paterno lives and bleeds penn state.. to the core. he built a town not a program. it was his life.  and he wasnt going to let anyone or anything tarnish that. so ya hes guilty of anyone that got molested the last 10 years as is the president and ad.  the brand was more important then the kids being molested. it makes me sick really because my dad passed away 5 years ago but he lived and breathed paterno..thought the man was a god. im glad he didnt get to see this.  think about it...sandusky retired at 55 when the original rumors started.  he was paternos coach replacemnt in waiting. not only that he was regarded as the best assistant in football yet no one called for him?  other schools new as well what was going on. but at the time paterno was on the outs and they were trying to get rid of him. so a guy who has lived penn state his whole life figured...just retire and i wont say anything.  if those rumors hadnt started paterno would probably have been replaced with sanduksy  in 2001 or whatever.


    Interesting.  Has anyone speculated that that's how Paterno kept his job as long as he wanted basically.  He knew of this episode and the AD/Prez didn't want it coming out.  Paterno probably said or intimated, maybe even at that time, let me stay as long as I damned want and I'll keep quiet.  Force me out and I'll spill the beans.  Could be the case.  Would be sick all the way around.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by badlands:


    paterno hasnt doen anything else. this is what paterno is guilty of...paterno lives and bleeds penn state.. to the core. he built a town not a program. it was his life.  and he wasnt going to let anyone or anything tarnish that. so ya hes guilty of anyone that got molested the last 10 years as is the president and ad.  the brand was more important then the kids being molested. it makes me sick really because my dad passed away 5 years ago but he lived and breathed paterno..thought the man was a god. im glad he didnt get to see this.  think about it...sandusky retired at 55 when the original rumors started.  he was paternos coach replacemnt in waiting. not only that he was regarded as the best assistant in football yet no one called for him?  other schools new as well what was going on. but at the time paterno was on the outs and they were trying to get rid of him. so a guy who has lived penn state his whole life figured...just retire and i wont say anything.  if those rumors hadnt started paterno would probably have been replaced with sanduksy  in 2001 or whatever.


    Interesting.  Has anyone speculated that that's how Paterno kept his job as long as he wanted basically.  He knew of this episode and the AD/Prez didn't want it coming out.  Paterno probably said or intimated, maybe even at that time, let me stay as long as I damned want and I'll keep quiet.  Force me out and I'll spill the beans.  Could be the case.  Would be sick all the way around.
     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 9:42 PM ET #64

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthOf49Sports:


    A janitor and a grad asst. were the only two eyewitnesses so far, other than victim's accounts.  More people need to step forward to prove Sandusky wasn't 'horsing around' as he states, identify Sandusky in a lineup, then you have a sticking case.


    that's two more eyewitnesses than they normally have for these kinds of cases.  the case against sandusky will be fine.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthOf49Sports:


    A janitor and a grad asst. were the only two eyewitnesses so far, other than victim's accounts.  More people need to step forward to prove Sandusky wasn't 'horsing around' as he states, identify Sandusky in a lineup, then you have a sticking case.


    that's two more eyewitnesses than they normally have for these kinds of cases.  the case against sandusky will be fine.
     
    Alien-1
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 9:43 PM ET #65

    Bottom line is.............Penn St(more specifically Joe Pa) dealt with this whole matter in house and thought it would never see the light of day as the years passed. Child molestation always comes out, sooner or later, it's a serious crime that often takes the victims years to finally come forward, due to embarrasment, feelings of guilt (that is was somehow their fault, how could they let it happen) etc. etc.

    Absolutely the worst crime that anyone can commit in my books..................child molestation affects the victim for many years after the act.

    Badlands nailed it when he said: Joe Pa would have NEVER in a million years risked tarnishing the Penn St brand in any way ...thus he did what he thought was best for the the program and tried to sweep it all under the rug.

    Joe Pa put Penn St before  the well being of several kids...........Joe is a guitly man, HE KNOWS IT believe me HE KNOWS IT !!!!

     

    Reply

    Bottom line is.............Penn St(more specifically Joe Pa) dealt with this whole matter in house and thought it would never see the light of day as the years passed. Child molestation always comes out, sooner or later, it's a serious crime that often takes the victims years to finally come forward, due to embarrasment, feelings of guilt (that is was somehow their fault, how could they let it happen) etc. etc.

    Absolutely the worst crime that anyone can commit in my books..................child molestation affects the victim for many years after the act.

    Badlands nailed it when he said: Joe Pa would have NEVER in a million years risked tarnishing the Penn St brand in any way ...thus he did what he thought was best for the the program and tried to sweep it all under the rug.

    Joe Pa put Penn St before  the well being of several kids...........Joe is a guitly man, HE KNOWS IT believe me HE KNOWS IT !!!!

     

     
    Jon11
    Jon11
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    Posts: 359
    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 9:55 PM ET #66

    joeypa turns out to be just another amoral street punk from brooklyn who got lucky coaching football.

    cocksucker.
    Reply
    joeypa turns out to be just another amoral street punk from brooklyn who got lucky coaching football.

    cocksucker.
     
    The Hawk
    The Hawk
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 10:02 PM ET #67

    JoePa just lawyered up, not that he's guilty or anything.......
    Reply
    JoePa just lawyered up, not that he's guilty or anything.......
     
    MaineRoad
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 10:04 PM ET #68

    Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:



    Interesting.  Has anyone speculated that that's how Paterno kept his job as long as he wanted basically.  He knew of this episode and the AD/Prez didn't want it coming out.  Paterno probably said or intimated, maybe even at that time, let me stay as long as I damned want and I'll keep quiet.  Force me out and I'll spill the beans.  Could be the case.  Would be sick all the way around.

    Hmm.  Maybe.  Of course, spilling the  beans would implicate him as well, and tarnish the PSU brand.  Still, once the big-wigs had all bought-in at some level (perhaps not really knowing what sort of conduct they were condoning; perhaps knowing damn well what sort of conduct they were condoning), it was like mutually-assured-destruction (and old Cold War term for you youngsters) - they were all going to have jobs for freaking life!  These folks all had really comforatble lives (and about three decades more to spend above ground than Paterno figured to), so the threat of exposure must have weighed on them like lead. 

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:



    Interesting.  Has anyone speculated that that's how Paterno kept his job as long as he wanted basically.  He knew of this episode and the AD/Prez didn't want it coming out.  Paterno probably said or intimated, maybe even at that time, let me stay as long as I damned want and I'll keep quiet.  Force me out and I'll spill the beans.  Could be the case.  Would be sick all the way around.

    Hmm.  Maybe.  Of course, spilling the  beans would implicate him as well, and tarnish the PSU brand.  Still, once the big-wigs had all bought-in at some level (perhaps not really knowing what sort of conduct they were condoning; perhaps knowing damn well what sort of conduct they were condoning), it was like mutually-assured-destruction (and old Cold War term for you youngsters) - they were all going to have jobs for freaking life!  These folks all had really comforatble lives (and about three decades more to spend above ground than Paterno figured to), so the threat of exposure must have weighed on them like lead. 

     
     
    Spitfire15
    Spitfire15
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    Joined: Feb, 2007
    Posts: 13407
    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 10:15 PM ET #69

    Good job double-M
    Reply
    Good job double-M
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