Well, I showed several links to studies and reports from specialists, besides my own experience in reviewing it. That is the best I can do. If you have any other independent data to support your points, I would be glad to take a look.
But you have to be a bale to answer the question of: if they work, why the spikes; if they work, why no sudden drops?
Do not mistake what I am saying for insensitivity. I understand folks are scared. But the Left and Media pushing masks, as if they will stop this, is not about stopping the spread of the virus.
Well, I showed several links to studies and reports from specialists, besides my own experience in reviewing it. That is the best I can do. If you have any other independent data to support your points, I would be glad to take a look.
But you have to be a bale to answer the question of: if they work, why the spikes; if they work, why no sudden drops?
Do not mistake what I am saying for insensitivity. I understand folks are scared. But the Left and Media pushing masks, as if they will stop this, is not about stopping the spread of the virus.
Mainstream media outlets are all too happy to interview Dr. Anthony Fauci as an “infectious disease specialist.” They find his big government solutions that cancel Thanksgiving and Christmas most pleasing. He wants us to wear masks forever, even though he once said they weren’t any good back in the spring.
It’s true that Fauci plays a doctor on these TV shows. But we have good reasons to believe that he is only acting rather than actually being a responsible physician. And it is only a low-information public that allows the MSM to get away with pushing his advice. To set the record straight, let’s put some basic facts on the table.
Anthony Fauci did go to medical school where he earned his MD degree, just like I did. He went through a residency program, just like I did. And he passed his specialty board exams, just like I did. That’s where our resemblance ends. I spent another 32 years taking care of patients, both in the operating room and the intensive care unit. Fauci did nothing of the kind.
After his residency, Anthony Fauci put on a different white coat and went into the virology laboratory. He stopped practicing clinical medicine in order to investigate the minutiae of viruses with microscopes and biomolecular markers. In this honorable pursuit, he explored genomes, spike proteins, and binding sites. Indeed, he advanced our knowledge of how viruses interact with human cells, from binding to replication to release of new virus particles. He used RT-qPCR as a tool in exploring those questions, so he understands its use in research. He also understands that it is not a proper tool for patient diagnosis or treatment, even though he pushed it for that use.
Mainstream media outlets are all too happy to interview Dr. Anthony Fauci as an “infectious disease specialist.” They find his big government solutions that cancel Thanksgiving and Christmas most pleasing. He wants us to wear masks forever, even though he once said they weren’t any good back in the spring.
It’s true that Fauci plays a doctor on these TV shows. But we have good reasons to believe that he is only acting rather than actually being a responsible physician. And it is only a low-information public that allows the MSM to get away with pushing his advice. To set the record straight, let’s put some basic facts on the table.
Anthony Fauci did go to medical school where he earned his MD degree, just like I did. He went through a residency program, just like I did. And he passed his specialty board exams, just like I did. That’s where our resemblance ends. I spent another 32 years taking care of patients, both in the operating room and the intensive care unit. Fauci did nothing of the kind.
After his residency, Anthony Fauci put on a different white coat and went into the virology laboratory. He stopped practicing clinical medicine in order to investigate the minutiae of viruses with microscopes and biomolecular markers. In this honorable pursuit, he explored genomes, spike proteins, and binding sites. Indeed, he advanced our knowledge of how viruses interact with human cells, from binding to replication to release of new virus particles. He used RT-qPCR as a tool in exploring those questions, so he understands its use in research. He also understands that it is not a proper tool for patient diagnosis or treatment, even though he pushed it for that use.
Fauci also does not have material clinicalexperience in the management of patients with viral diseases. That’s the province of real Infectious Disease specialists, not virologists. While Fauci trained in Internal Medicine just like the ID guys, and ID treats patients with viruses (as well as bacteria), ID and virology are very different. ID guys figure out treatment protocols but are still a step or two removed from experience that is useful in making public recommendations on managing an epidemic. Those steps don’t even require an MD degree, although many in the field have it.
Once we know we have a disease affecting the public, it’s time for the Epidemiologists. These are people who look at how a disease is spreading in a population. Is it primarily through male homosexual sex, like HIV? Is it passed via aerosols in close quarters with stale air like H1N1 flu? Is it inherited like sickle cell anemia or Huntington’s Chorea? In every case, epidemiologists were the ones who tracked down the way each disease was passed from one person to another. As I noted before, epidemiology is a research discipline that doesn’t necessarily involve medical school. But figuring out how to stop the spread takes one more specialty.
Public Health is Epidemiology in action. It is a different course of study from medicine, and the basic degree is a Master’s in Public Health. MPHs take the information that is known from virology, infectious disease, and populations to engineer plans to “mitigate” epidemics. This is radically different from Biden’s “plan” to “crush the virus.” There’s no way to do that. Once COVID-19 got loose “in the wild,” attempts to block its spread had as much chance of success as using a chain link fence to stop mosquitoes.
Fauci also does not have material clinicalexperience in the management of patients with viral diseases. That’s the province of real Infectious Disease specialists, not virologists. While Fauci trained in Internal Medicine just like the ID guys, and ID treats patients with viruses (as well as bacteria), ID and virology are very different. ID guys figure out treatment protocols but are still a step or two removed from experience that is useful in making public recommendations on managing an epidemic. Those steps don’t even require an MD degree, although many in the field have it.
Once we know we have a disease affecting the public, it’s time for the Epidemiologists. These are people who look at how a disease is spreading in a population. Is it primarily through male homosexual sex, like HIV? Is it passed via aerosols in close quarters with stale air like H1N1 flu? Is it inherited like sickle cell anemia or Huntington’s Chorea? In every case, epidemiologists were the ones who tracked down the way each disease was passed from one person to another. As I noted before, epidemiology is a research discipline that doesn’t necessarily involve medical school. But figuring out how to stop the spread takes one more specialty.
Public Health is Epidemiology in action. It is a different course of study from medicine, and the basic degree is a Master’s in Public Health. MPHs take the information that is known from virology, infectious disease, and populations to engineer plans to “mitigate” epidemics. This is radically different from Biden’s “plan” to “crush the virus.” There’s no way to do that. Once COVID-19 got loose “in the wild,” attempts to block its spread had as much chance of success as using a chain link fence to stop mosquitoes.
What MPHs can do is effective track-and-trace work to identify and isolate hot spots in the early stages of an epidemic. They can recommend various ways to protect the aged and infirm, such as spending time outdoors and avoiding anyone with signs of disease. What they cannotdo is guarantee success in those efforts. All they can do is “mitigate,” a fancy word that means “make not so bad.” With a potentially lethal disease, some people will still die. There just won’t be as many that assume room temperature.
So let us compare Anthony Fauci with Carl Heneghan. Dr. Heneghan is a practicing Family Physician and Epidemiologist. He is the Director of the Center for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University. In short, unlike Fauci, he is the very model of what we should seek in an advisor when we’re trying to manage an epidemic.
Fauci is adamant about masks (even though he doesn’t wear one when he thinks no one is looking). He is currently promoting a nationwide mask mandate. Heneghan is quite blunt in his assessment that there is no evidence that masks will have any effect on the spread of COVID-19. Who’s right?
What MPHs can do is effective track-and-trace work to identify and isolate hot spots in the early stages of an epidemic. They can recommend various ways to protect the aged and infirm, such as spending time outdoors and avoiding anyone with signs of disease. What they cannotdo is guarantee success in those efforts. All they can do is “mitigate,” a fancy word that means “make not so bad.” With a potentially lethal disease, some people will still die. There just won’t be as many that assume room temperature.
So let us compare Anthony Fauci with Carl Heneghan. Dr. Heneghan is a practicing Family Physician and Epidemiologist. He is the Director of the Center for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University. In short, unlike Fauci, he is the very model of what we should seek in an advisor when we’re trying to manage an epidemic.
Fauci is adamant about masks (even though he doesn’t wear one when he thinks no one is looking). He is currently promoting a nationwide mask mandate. Heneghan is quite blunt in his assessment that there is no evidence that masks will have any effect on the spread of COVID-19. Who’s right?
One other mandate foisted on us is “social distancing.” Fauci pushed for this early on, ignoring the data that proximity was meaningless unless the time of exposure, size of the space, and recirculation of air were considered. As Dr. Heneghan notes, “There is no scientific evidence to support the disastrous two-metre rule.” In fact, there is evidence that such a rule (two meters is about six feet) may actually be harmful.
Hormesis is a description of your body’s response to stress. Small stresses exercise your innate responses, making you ready to handle bigger stresses. Until you reach some overwhelming level of stress, what didn’t kill you made you stronger. We know this is true with viruses. Low levels of exposure are likely to give you immunity without you ever getting sick. Later on, if you do get a large exposure, you aren’t likely to get sick. But you got the low level exposure by not observing social distancing rule. It would seem that Fauci is batting a thousand.
I won’t belabor the multitude of Fauci’s incorrect pronouncements. Rather, it’s time for us to get serious about the epidemic. We know how to protect the aged and infirm, and it’s not by locking healthy people up, hiding them behind masks, and keeping them from enjoying their community. Vaccines will help defend them, but even then, some will become ill and die. Ultimately, we have to recognize that we simply cannot “crush the virus.” It doesn’t obey us. Rather, we need to get America back to work and get through the epidemic, recognizing that while it won’t be pretty, it won’t destroy us, either.
One other mandate foisted on us is “social distancing.” Fauci pushed for this early on, ignoring the data that proximity was meaningless unless the time of exposure, size of the space, and recirculation of air were considered. As Dr. Heneghan notes, “There is no scientific evidence to support the disastrous two-metre rule.” In fact, there is evidence that such a rule (two meters is about six feet) may actually be harmful.
Hormesis is a description of your body’s response to stress. Small stresses exercise your innate responses, making you ready to handle bigger stresses. Until you reach some overwhelming level of stress, what didn’t kill you made you stronger. We know this is true with viruses. Low levels of exposure are likely to give you immunity without you ever getting sick. Later on, if you do get a large exposure, you aren’t likely to get sick. But you got the low level exposure by not observing social distancing rule. It would seem that Fauci is batting a thousand.
I won’t belabor the multitude of Fauci’s incorrect pronouncements. Rather, it’s time for us to get serious about the epidemic. We know how to protect the aged and infirm, and it’s not by locking healthy people up, hiding them behind masks, and keeping them from enjoying their community. Vaccines will help defend them, but even then, some will become ill and die. Ultimately, we have to recognize that we simply cannot “crush the virus.” It doesn’t obey us. Rather, we need to get America back to work and get through the epidemic, recognizing that while it won’t be pretty, it won’t destroy us, either.
Don’t take me wrong. I think Fauci has his heart in the right place. I just think he is under political pressure and has a bad track record on this and some other things.
But to go back and forth and to double down wrongly is a bad look.
Don’t take me wrong. I think Fauci has his heart in the right place. I just think he is under political pressure and has a bad track record on this and some other things.
But to go back and forth and to double down wrongly is a bad look.
Again, I understand your influence and even sympathize with it. Just understand the science and the proof is not there.
We all want this to go away. But forcing bad policy on folks without solid science to back it up is just wrong to me. It is wrong to intentionally mass-mislead the public.
Again, I understand your influence and even sympathize with it. Just understand the science and the proof is not there.
We all want this to go away. But forcing bad policy on folks without solid science to back it up is just wrong to me. It is wrong to intentionally mass-mislead the public.
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Moderna is driven by our mission to deliver on the promise of mRNA science to create a new generation of transformative medicines for patients. We are currently advancing mRNA clinical studies on our development candidates to address serious unmet needs across several therapeutic areas and multiple diseases. Clinical (human) trials are now underway for several of our investigational mRNA vaccines and therapeutics that may have the potential to treat or prevent rare diseases, viruses and cancers.
Moderna is actively recruiting participants to join our clinical trials by evaluating investigational mRNA therapies and vaccines for the treatment or prevention of Methylmalonic Acidemia (MMA), Cytomegalovirus (CMV), cancers and other diseases.
Moderna is driven by our mission to deliver on the promise of mRNA science to create a new generation of transformative medicines for patients. We are currently advancing mRNA clinical studies on our development candidates to address serious unmet needs across several therapeutic areas and multiple diseases. Clinical (human) trials are now underway for several of our investigational mRNA vaccines and therapeutics that may have the potential to treat or prevent rare diseases, viruses and cancers.
Generally, public health experts agree on several reasons for resurge in coronavirus spread. First, people have become lax in safety precautions that have been proven to work. Not enough mask wearing, social distancing and other guidelines recommended. Secondly, lower seasonal temperatures shift more people from outdoor to indoor gatherings. Third, reopening of businesses and schools. Fourth, lack of coordinated national plan. Fifth, misinformation such as downplaying of severity of pandemic.
Now that many hospitals have intensive care facilities overwhelmed, governments are forced to return to stronger mitigation such as lockdowns. Since widespread vaccination won't be available until next year, public health experts urge people to double down on mask wearing, social distancing, avoidance of large gatherings, hygiene, ventilation, testing and contact tracing.
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
-- if masks work why did the spikes happen?
Generally, public health experts agree on several reasons for resurge in coronavirus spread. First, people have become lax in safety precautions that have been proven to work. Not enough mask wearing, social distancing and other guidelines recommended. Secondly, lower seasonal temperatures shift more people from outdoor to indoor gatherings. Third, reopening of businesses and schools. Fourth, lack of coordinated national plan. Fifth, misinformation such as downplaying of severity of pandemic.
Now that many hospitals have intensive care facilities overwhelmed, governments are forced to return to stronger mitigation such as lockdowns. Since widespread vaccination won't be available until next year, public health experts urge people to double down on mask wearing, social distancing, avoidance of large gatherings, hygiene, ventilation, testing and contact tracing.
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: -- if masks work why did the spikes happen? Generally, public health experts agree on several reasons for resurge in coronavirus spread. First, people have become lax in safety precautions that have been proven to work. Not enough mask wearing.
No sir. They cannot wriggle out of it so easily. There have been tremendous spikes in places where there are hardcore mandates, with fines in place.
They also cannot day folks are getting lax. If anything some of these areas are way more cautious — especially now with the spikes.
They cannot simply try to explain away the spikes by saying we need more mask wearing. Once mask mandates went in place the spikes started showing up. Some places are nearly 100% mandated outside — let alone inside.
So, saying more mask wearing was needed is not even a cop out — it is flat out wrong. It makes them look just like they are: without a reason.
Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: -- if masks work why did the spikes happen? Generally, public health experts agree on several reasons for resurge in coronavirus spread. First, people have become lax in safety precautions that have been proven to work. Not enough mask wearing.
No sir. They cannot wriggle out of it so easily. There have been tremendous spikes in places where there are hardcore mandates, with fines in place.
They also cannot day folks are getting lax. If anything some of these areas are way more cautious — especially now with the spikes.
They cannot simply try to explain away the spikes by saying we need more mask wearing. Once mask mandates went in place the spikes started showing up. Some places are nearly 100% mandated outside — let alone inside.
So, saying more mask wearing was needed is not even a cop out — it is flat out wrong. It makes them look just like they are: without a reason.
Secondly, lower seasonal temperatures shift more people from outdoor to indoor gatherings.
Of course, I explained this in-depth some time back in another thread. This helps explains the northeast vs the south and California. But this is counter to trying to prove the masks having anything to do with it.
There is no correlation between the seasonal and the masks.
If people moved inside where they are MANDATED to wear masks — why the spikes while WEARING MASKS. That is what they have to answer when they bring this up.
Secondly, lower seasonal temperatures shift more people from outdoor to indoor gatherings.
Of course, I explained this in-depth some time back in another thread. This helps explains the northeast vs the south and California. But this is counter to trying to prove the masks having anything to do with it.
There is no correlation between the seasonal and the masks.
If people moved inside where they are MANDATED to wear masks — why the spikes while WEARING MASKS. That is what they have to answer when they bring this up.
For example, the places where people are FORCED to wear masks and the places where the studies have shown that kids are not spreading this from the schools?
Third, reopening of businesses and schools.
For example, the places where people are FORCED to wear masks and the places where the studies have shown that kids are not spreading this from the schools?
This is a copout the Media and Left use. It does not work. For example, what about the cities and states that have have a united plan? Why the consistent spikes?
what about the other countries that DO have a united plan? Why are some of them caring even worse than USA?
Fourth, lack of coordinated national plan.
This is a copout the Media and Left use. It does not work. For example, what about the cities and states that have have a united plan? Why the consistent spikes?
what about the other countries that DO have a united plan? Why are some of them caring even worse than USA?
Fifth, misinformation such as downplaying of severity of pandemic.
How do they think this explains away the masks not stopping the spikes?
Do they mean the initial information form Fauci and the health organizations that said a mask was not needed. Then turned 180 on it with no science to back it up? Folks have plenty of information — too much. Are they saying the Media and Left have been getting bad info to the public? Because they have done their best to terrify them every day!
That type of misinformation?
Fifth, misinformation such as downplaying of severity of pandemic.
How do they think this explains away the masks not stopping the spikes?
Do they mean the initial information form Fauci and the health organizations that said a mask was not needed. Then turned 180 on it with no science to back it up? Folks have plenty of information — too much. Are they saying the Media and Left have been getting bad info to the public? Because they have done their best to terrify them every day!
Oh No! Hospitals Are Overwhelmed! Raging Surges Reported In…1957…2000…2003…2016…
Actually ICU occupancy, eg in the UK, is under the 5-year average
Hospitals do not build beds and ICUs for Worst Case Scenarios, such as the coronadoom apocalypse that has long been promised but has not yet arrived, a time in which everybody falls ill and has to be tended to in hospital.
The average ICU occupancy rate is almost 70%. Which means it does not take much to “overwhelm!” one. Same with bed numbers. Money is lost when most beds are empty most of the time. So hospitals aren’t built to have scads of excess capacity.
Reports are everywhere now about raging surges and surging rages of coronadoom “cases”, all of which ignore testing levels and disease severity. Ignore that and let’s ask if we’ve seen this kind of hyperbolic hyperventilating hypersensitive headlines before.
Let’s start with the most sober source, which is to say, not a corporate media site. We’ll move from that to only what are considered “reputable” media sources to see how often they tried to panic us through the use of hyperbole and omission of perspective. Searching is limited to those things on line, which will of course give a recency bias.
Wow! Sounds like a lot! “At least four people have died and thousands have been taken to hospital with respiratory problems after a ‘thunderstorm asthma’ event in Melbourne on Monday 21 November.” Also “Victoria’s health department said that since the event more than 8500 patients had presented to hospitals with respiratory problems…”
Or this type of misinformation:
Oh No! Hospitals Are Overwhelmed! Raging Surges Reported In…1957…2000…2003…2016…
Actually ICU occupancy, eg in the UK, is under the 5-year average
Hospitals do not build beds and ICUs for Worst Case Scenarios, such as the coronadoom apocalypse that has long been promised but has not yet arrived, a time in which everybody falls ill and has to be tended to in hospital.
The average ICU occupancy rate is almost 70%. Which means it does not take much to “overwhelm!” one. Same with bed numbers. Money is lost when most beds are empty most of the time. So hospitals aren’t built to have scads of excess capacity.
Reports are everywhere now about raging surges and surging rages of coronadoom “cases”, all of which ignore testing levels and disease severity. Ignore that and let’s ask if we’ve seen this kind of hyperbolic hyperventilating hypersensitive headlines before.
Let’s start with the most sober source, which is to say, not a corporate media site. We’ll move from that to only what are considered “reputable” media sources to see how often they tried to panic us through the use of hyperbole and omission of perspective. Searching is limited to those things on line, which will of course give a recency bias.
Wow! Sounds like a lot! “At least four people have died and thousands have been taken to hospital with respiratory problems after a ‘thunderstorm asthma’ event in Melbourne on Monday 21 November.” Also “Victoria’s health department said that since the event more than 8500 patients had presented to hospitals with respiratory problems…”
Tellingly, the BMJ does not say how unusual this number is. Is it normally 8400 and they got an extra 100? They do say 60 people are still undergoing treatment. Ah.
First lesson: ignore all stories that give no historical context. Where by “all” I mean all.
The 2017-2018 influenza epidemic is sending people to hospitals and urgent-care centers in every state, and medical centers are responding with extraordinary measures: asking staff to work overtime, setting up triage tents, restricting friends and family visits and canceling elective surgeries, to name a few.
“We are pretty much at capacity, and the volume is certainly different from previous flu seasons,” says Dr. Alfred Tallia, professor and chair of family medicine at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center in New Brunswick, New Jersey. “I’ve been in practice for 30 years, and it’s been a good 15 or 20 years since I’ve seen a flu-related illness scenario like we’ve had this year.”
Tallia says his hospital is “managing, but just barely,” at keeping up with the increased number of sick patients in the last three weeks. The hospital’s urgent-care centers have also been inundated, and its outpatient clinics have no appointments available.
Tellingly, the BMJ does not say how unusual this number is. Is it normally 8400 and they got an extra 100? They do say 60 people are still undergoing treatment. Ah.
First lesson: ignore all stories that give no historical context. Where by “all” I mean all.
The 2017-2018 influenza epidemic is sending people to hospitals and urgent-care centers in every state, and medical centers are responding with extraordinary measures: asking staff to work overtime, setting up triage tents, restricting friends and family visits and canceling elective surgeries, to name a few.
“We are pretty much at capacity, and the volume is certainly different from previous flu seasons,” says Dr. Alfred Tallia, professor and chair of family medicine at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center in New Brunswick, New Jersey. “I’ve been in practice for 30 years, and it’s been a good 15 or 20 years since I’ve seen a flu-related illness scenario like we’ve had this year.”
Tallia says his hospital is “managing, but just barely,” at keeping up with the increased number of sick patients in the last three weeks. The hospital’s urgent-care centers have also been inundated, and its outpatient clinics have no appointments available.
One more long bit about giving the public misinformation and needlessly frightening them:
During a press conference Wednesday, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis notedthat health experts initially projected 465,000 Floridians would be hospitalized because of coronavirus by April 24. But as of April 22, the number is slightly more than 2,000.
Even in New York, where Gov. Andrew Cuomo said last month he would need 30,000 ventilators, hospitals never came close to needing that many. The projected peak need was about 5,000, and actual usage may have been even lower.
Other overflow measures have also proven unnecessary. On Tuesday, President Trump said the USNS Comfort, the Navy hospital ship that had been deployed to New York to provide emergency care for coronavirus patients, will be leaving the city. The ship had been prepared to treat 500 patients. As of Friday, only 71 beds were occupied. An Army field hospital set up in Seattle’s pro football stadium shut down earlier this month without ever having seen a single patient.
It’s the same story in much of the country. In Texas, where this week Gov. Greg Abbott began gradually loosening lockdown measures, including a prohibition on most medical procedures, hospitals aren’t overwhelmed. In Dallas and Houston, where coronavirus cases are concentrated in the state, makeshift overflow centers that had been under construction might not be used at all.
In Illinois, where hospitals across the state scrambled to stock up on ventilators last month, fewer than half of them have been put to use—and as of Sunday, only 757 of 1,345 ventilators were being used by COVID-19 patients. In Virginia, only about 22 percent of the ventilator supply is being used.
One more long bit about giving the public misinformation and needlessly frightening them:
During a press conference Wednesday, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis notedthat health experts initially projected 465,000 Floridians would be hospitalized because of coronavirus by April 24. But as of April 22, the number is slightly more than 2,000.
Even in New York, where Gov. Andrew Cuomo said last month he would need 30,000 ventilators, hospitals never came close to needing that many. The projected peak need was about 5,000, and actual usage may have been even lower.
Other overflow measures have also proven unnecessary. On Tuesday, President Trump said the USNS Comfort, the Navy hospital ship that had been deployed to New York to provide emergency care for coronavirus patients, will be leaving the city. The ship had been prepared to treat 500 patients. As of Friday, only 71 beds were occupied. An Army field hospital set up in Seattle’s pro football stadium shut down earlier this month without ever having seen a single patient.
It’s the same story in much of the country. In Texas, where this week Gov. Greg Abbott began gradually loosening lockdown measures, including a prohibition on most medical procedures, hospitals aren’t overwhelmed. In Dallas and Houston, where coronavirus cases are concentrated in the state, makeshift overflow centers that had been under construction might not be used at all.
In Illinois, where hospitals across the state scrambled to stock up on ventilators last month, fewer than half of them have been put to use—and as of Sunday, only 757 of 1,345 ventilators were being used by COVID-19 patients. In Virginia, only about 22 percent of the ventilator supply is being used.
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