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55 people shot in Chicago this holiday weekend

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Posted: #1
9 people killed and there are still two days left.  the pro lifers must be absolutely beside themselves and doing everything possible to find a solution.  or because most of these people are minorites and it's not a women contorl issue, they don't give a shit.  in any case, this is fucked up. 

anyone live in chicago.  what do the cops do, just load these people in the truck, go back to the nice neighborhoods and wait for another call to respond to once the shooters have dispersed?


https://www.chicagotribune.com/
 
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Posted: #2

Just another day in the land of the free and the home of the brave.  Where everyone deserves to have a gun, and use it when they want.

Meanwhile, in other civilized countries - they continue to facepalm when they read this stuff.  55 in Chicago in a weekend, 50 in a year in Germany, UK, Japan etc.

So unbelievable that we let this happen.  But is only in the ghetto - so who cares if they shoot each other up?  Not my problem in the suburbs.  Its "their" problem, right?

 

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Posted: #3
But Van what about our 2nd amendment rights... And the other familiar line about how we need guns in case the gov revolts agains us. Or how if the people who were shot were armed themselves this never would of happened.
 
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Posted: #4
clearly, there are a few issues but i guess i don't understand what pro life means.  could it be the pro lifers really don't care about well, people's lives, beyond their ability to control women?  the next time we hear of some prop lifer droning on and on about the death of a fetus, should we give that any credibility at all?
 
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Posted: #5
Jesus, it seems like every other monday there is a thread like this about Chicagos previous weekend.

  As far as gun control I would GUARANTEE that most these incident are with illegal weapons. That is the problem the US faces . Even If we decided to outlaw guns and by some miracle all good citizens agreed ( I know never happen) the problem is the criminals would keep their arsenals and the citizenry would be at the mercy of every punk with any type of firearm.  There is no easy answer, it's no different then the immigration issue 


 
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Posted: #6
This is more about the failed drug war than it is about guns.  This is all gang activity over drug turf.
 
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Posted: #7
as far as giun control goes, i don't like guns but i'm not a big gun control guy.  there are so many guns out there that i just don't know what the answer is and i'm pretty sure more government intrusion will only darn things up more.  like james said, it's like immigration.

but i also agree with vanzack and matt.  on some level, it's a matter of priorities and there are many out there who care more about having their guns than the death of kids.  it's easy to say, "well, what can we do about it?" so i can keep my guns, but if no one tries to stop these shootings, that's the only sure way to make sure nothing gets better.  but again, since pro life is the equivalent or pro women control and they don't care about people's lives in the slightest, i'm not sure those priorities will change. 
 
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Posted: #8
Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:

This is more about the failed drug war than it is about guns.  This is all gang activity over drug turf.

I agree drugs and drug money are the engine behind the insanity . But the guns available are what make the turf wars and gang activity so dangerous . If a bunch of thugs had no guns and had to stab  each other or use baseball  bats the violence would drop 95%. It's very easy to drive past and should Out a window while your bud is driving past at 25mph. How many of these guys will get out and take a knife or bat into a crowd of their enemies? That takes a completely different mentality and most gang members don't have that type of balls 
 
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Posted: #9
Quote Originally Posted by JamesD816:

Jesus, it seems like every other monday there is a thread like this about Chicagos previous weekend.

  As far as gun control I would GUARANTEE that most these incident are with illegal weapons. That is the problem the US faces . Even If we decided to outlaw guns and by some miracle all good citizens agreed ( I know never happen) the problem is the criminals would keep their arsenals and the citizenry would be at the mercy of every punk with any type of firearm.  There is no easy answer, it's no different then the immigration issue 



I am for background checks and a waiting period but I would also guess that these murders are taking place by people who aren't buying their guns legally.

If they don't care about murdering someone do you think they care about obtaining a firearm illegally?
 
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Posted: #10
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Just another day in the land of the free and the home of the brave.  Where everyone deserves to have a gun, and use it when they want.

Meanwhile, in other civilized countries - they continue to facepalm when they read this stuff.  55 in Chicago in a weekend, 50 in a year in Germany, UK, Japan etc.

So unbelievable that we let this happen.  But is only in the ghetto - so who cares if they shoot each other up?  Not my problem in the suburbs.  Its "their" problem, right?

 


Van you are right that when it happens in the  ghetto there are random articles in the paper and the stories are forgotten. When it happens in the suburbs it's national news and a tragedy. I remember when Colin ferguson shot 4 people on the commuter train of the Long Island railroad in NYC over twenty years ago. It was front page news for over a year. NYC was a war zone then and 4 dead in the poor communities Happened all the time. But the LIRR was a train that took the rich and middle class white folks to work so shooting that up was a different ball game.

I will say at this point there is no way to clean up these ghettos in Chicago and other big cities. What are the cops going to do? Sweep the buildings?  Every single search that doesn't produce guns and drugs will produce a dozen civil lawsuits by the people searched . The ACLU and similar orginazations will pounce on every mistake, and every percieved mistake made by law enforcement during the searches. The way our inner city's are destroyed and the way law enforcement is hindered by frivolous civil complaints and lawsuits  That result in huge financial settlements and judgements  there is virtually no way to fix this mess.  I am not saying the police do not sometimes commit crimes and abuse people's rights. They absolutely do, especialy in poor communities. However I am saying many times the cases have no merit and an undertaking like attempting to clean up a city like chicago would make every lawyer within 500 miles rich .
 
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Posted: #11
Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:


I am for background checks and a waiting period but I would also guess that these murders are taking place by people who aren't buying their guns legally.

If they don't care about murdering someone do you think they care about obtaining a firearm illegally?

Thats exactly right. There are too many guns out there to ever clean the streets .  That ship has sailed unless you are prepared to give double digit MANDATORY prison sentences for anyone caught with an illegal gun. Mandatory doube digits no exceptions 

 
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Posted: #12
Since most of this seem to stem from fighting over turf/selling drugs, I wonder what affect legalizing drugs would have on this violence.

Perhaps setting aside some part of the city where the general populace doesn't go and allowing dealers free reign to sell and users free reign to use, would keep this kind of stuff away from people who want no part of it. The police could then supervise this area to ensure there is no violence while dealers can operate their businesses.

Drug dealing/using is going to happen anyway, might a well take it as far away from the general public as possible .
 
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Posted: #13
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Just another day in the land of the free and the home of the brave.  Where everyone deserves to have a gun, and use it when they want.



You can not legally purchase (there are no gun stores) or carry a firearm in the City of Chicago.

 
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Posted: #14
The US violent crime rate is at historically low levels.

Homicide by firearm is not a leading cause of death in America.
The Department of Justice's latest report on gun violence by the Bureau of Justice Statistics shows a 39% drop in gun murders from 1993 to 2011. Non-fatal gun crimes are down 69%.

If your response to these events in Chicago is to advocate for gun control, then you're not really serious about solving the problem.

 
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Posted: #15
Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:

Since most of this seem to stem from fighting over turf/selling drugs, I wonder what affect legalizing drugs would have on this violence.

Perhaps setting aside some part of the city where the general populace doesn't go and allowing dealers free reign to sell and users free reign to use, would keep this kind of stuff away from people who want no part of it. The police could then supervise this area to ensure there is no violence while dealers can operate their businesses.

Drug dealing/using is going to happen anyway, might a well take it as far away from the general public as possible .

Problem with zoned drug areas is the addicts will roam elsewhere and do whatever they need to in order to finance their addictions. Then people "that want no part of it" become victims of it
 
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Posted: #16
Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:

Since most of this seem to stem from fighting over turf/selling drugs, I wonder what affect legalizing drugs would have on this violence.

Perhaps setting aside some part of the city where the general populace doesn't go and allowing dealers free reign to sell and users free reign to use, would keep this kind of stuff away from people who want no part of it. The police could then supervise this area to ensure there is no violence while dealers can operate their businesses.

Drug dealing/using is going to happen anyway, might a well take it as far away from the general public as possible .


Yes.  Prohibition is the root of the problem.  Guns are just a symptom.  Doesn't mean you should just give them guns because they might get them anyway, but it isn't going to really solve the problem.  Take away their violence business by legalizing drugs.
 
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Posted: #17
I'd add that the issuances of concealed carry permits has gone up over 500% since the late 1980's and there have been over 171 million FBI NICS gun transfer background checks since November 1998

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/reports-total-nics-background-checks-1998_2013_monthly_yearly_totals-070213.pdf

And there has been a corresponding decrease in gun crime with this exponential growth in firearms sales.
 
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Posted: #18
Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:



  Take away their violence business by legalizing drugs.

Do you have any experience with relatives or close friends who have been on heroin or morphine?

Do you think people who are addicted to coke and heroin are productive citizens and can hold down jobs?

Since the answer to the latter is quite clear I'm not so sure how that is a serious suggestion.
 
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Posted: #19
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

as far as giun control goes, i don't like guns but i'm not a big gun control guy.  there are so many guns out there that i just don't know what the answer is and i'm pretty sure more government intrusion will only darn things up more.  like james said, it's like immigration.

but i also agree with vanzack and matt.  on some level, it's a matter of priorities and there are many out there who care more about having their guns than the death of kids.  it's easy to say, "well, what can we do about it?" so i can keep my guns, but if no one tries to stop these shootings, that's the only sure way to make sure nothing gets better.  but again, since pro life is the equivalent or pro women control and they don't care about people's lives in the slightest, i'm not sure those priorities will change. 

If Chicago is anything like other cities, and I'm sure it is, then the cops are hated in those areas.

The people in those neighborhoods should want the cops to do everything in their power to find the culprits who committed these murders but instead they would rather complain about the cops and turn a blind eye towards the crimes.

Result of that attitude: More murders and more crime.
 
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Posted: #20
Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

The US violent crime rate is at historically low levels.

Homicide by firearm is not a leading cause of death in America.
The Department of Justice's latest report on gun violence by the Bureau of Justice Statistics shows a 39% drop in gun murders from 1993 to 2011. Non-fatal gun crimes are down 69%.

If your response to these events in Chicago is to advocate for gun control, then you're not really serious about solving the problem.

 
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Posted: #21
After Australia did their gun ban violent crime increased, rape, assault & batter, and property crimes too.

So I'm sure those who are part of the 99.99999% of people in America who do not live in Chicago, will be thrilled when someone (who will have a gun illegally) kicks in their door, bashes them over the head and rapes their wife because some drug dealer in a ward in the windy city didn't get shot some weekend.

Or something.

 
 
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Posted: #22
Don't let the media fool you into thinking that these countries where there are stricter gun laws are heaven on earth, There's plenty of gun violence over here in London yet our gun laws are very strict. There's always going to be gun violence wherever there are gangs, No matter if the gun laws are strict or not. The common denominator for me is gangs and drugs, You can take away their guns, They will use a machete instead, I don't see the point of ruining life for people who have carried guns responsibly for decades just because of gangs and cartels.
 
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Posted: #23
JamesD,

Is that not already happening? Aren't addicts already involved in harming society? Dealers as well? I'm not saying my suggestion is the perfect solution. However I think it's a better alternative to the status quo of the current war on drugs.

 
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Posted: #24

Violent crime rates have been dropping in some countries.  But demographics or aging of population is a bigger reason than more guns or laws.  Most violent crimes are commited by young men. 

Depeche2 is right that drugs legalization would reduce crimes.  and free up money better spend elsewhere.  Violence was more common when alcohol industry was illegal.  Today, better solution is to treat addiction as a health problem. 

 
 
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Posted: #25
The good news is that more & more Americans are getting concealed carry permits. 

A dozen states surveyed for this article, including Texas, Utah and Wisconsin, issued 537,000 permits last year, an 18% increase compared with a year prior and more than double the number issued in 2007. Early figures for 2013 show many states are on pace for their biggest year ever.

 About eight million Americans had concealed-carry permits as of last year, the Government Accountability Office said in what it called a conservative estimate.


https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323689204578573763575086702.html?mod=rss_Politics_And_Policy

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