Just want to point out a couple things on the Cal game. Although perhaps I'm on the wrong side, as evidenced by the insane movement on this game (I grabbed it at PK last night and since this time it's moved to +2.5), I don't see how you can bet against Cal here.
For those who are afraid of Cal on the road:
Cal's had two true road games this year and a "semi-away" game. The Missouri "semi-away" game was a slaughter. But Mizzou is still undefeated on the year, is 11-0 in home or semi-home games, and is a blowout type team, and is the #7 team in the country.
The loss at UNLV was by 17 points. UNLV is 12-0 at home this year and is a top 25 team.
The 1 point loss to San Diego State (#48) was tough. But San Diego state is 8-1 at home against D1 teams this year.
So although Cal has yet to earn a road victory, the teams they've played have a combined home or semi-home record of 31-1 for the year. So it's not really fair to call Cal a "bad road team". They also slaughtered Georgia in a neutral game, 70-46, in MO.
Oregon State comes in tonight as the #66 team overall, but has played the #315 overall schedule and #332 non-conference schedule. They were picked to finish 11 of 12 in the Pac 12 and #124 all of NCAA, and have only beaten one top-100 team on the season. The other 3 top 100 teams they've played they've lost to, and none of those teams are as good as Cal.
Oregon State posts a good home record, at 7-1, but one of those wins was against an unranked opponent, and only two of them were against teams in the top 200 (Hofstra barely makes the cut at #196; the other is #146 Montana).
Cal was picked to win the Pac-12, and they return all but one contributor from last year's team. They were able to win at Oregon State last year by 11 points, and are familiar with the arena. So I like Cal because I believe they're more talented, they're more experienced, they're familiar with Oregon State, and because there's a very good chance Oregon State's due for a downfall.
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Just want to point out a couple things on the Cal game. Although perhaps I'm on the wrong side, as evidenced by the insane movement on this game (I grabbed it at PK last night and since this time it's moved to +2.5), I don't see how you can bet against Cal here.
For those who are afraid of Cal on the road:
Cal's had two true road games this year and a "semi-away" game. The Missouri "semi-away" game was a slaughter. But Mizzou is still undefeated on the year, is 11-0 in home or semi-home games, and is a blowout type team, and is the #7 team in the country.
The loss at UNLV was by 17 points. UNLV is 12-0 at home this year and is a top 25 team.
The 1 point loss to San Diego State (#48) was tough. But San Diego state is 8-1 at home against D1 teams this year.
So although Cal has yet to earn a road victory, the teams they've played have a combined home or semi-home record of 31-1 for the year. So it's not really fair to call Cal a "bad road team". They also slaughtered Georgia in a neutral game, 70-46, in MO.
Oregon State comes in tonight as the #66 team overall, but has played the #315 overall schedule and #332 non-conference schedule. They were picked to finish 11 of 12 in the Pac 12 and #124 all of NCAA, and have only beaten one top-100 team on the season. The other 3 top 100 teams they've played they've lost to, and none of those teams are as good as Cal.
Oregon State posts a good home record, at 7-1, but one of those wins was against an unranked opponent, and only two of them were against teams in the top 200 (Hofstra barely makes the cut at #196; the other is #146 Montana).
Cal was picked to win the Pac-12, and they return all but one contributor from last year's team. They were able to win at Oregon State last year by 11 points, and are familiar with the arena. So I like Cal because I believe they're more talented, they're more experienced, they're familiar with Oregon State, and because there's a very good chance Oregon State's due for a downfall.
Can't disagree with you at all. Cal is bad on the road too. But I think both of these teams are so much more talented and can overcome that. They could both be wrong, but I still love both.
Are you an Arizona fan? Any feel on the game tonight? I'll be on Arizona myself.
i posted this on another thread... personally i'm not touching this game because i really don't get any joy betting UCLA unless i know for sure one way or the other...
Good insight... Actually the biggest issue UCLa has had all year is they
just don't have athleticism/quickness which is needed to defend the
perimeter when playing man to man defense... i think Howland has
realized that he really only has 2 decent defenders on the perimeter in
Lamb and Powell and that UCLA's length is better in a zone defense...
howland is very stubborn in his ways, hates playing zone def but has
realized that playing man will result in losses... not to mention
playing man defense really creates foul issues with josh smith pluggin
or hedging on screens... So in the past few weeks ucla has played zone
for most of its games... i will add that Howland is a preparation nut
and probably does it better that 99% of the coaches in the country... So
in conference when games are thurs/sat, you'll find that ucla has much
better success in their thursdays games vs sat games... Granted during
the final four stretch UCLA was so loaded it didn't really matter, but
now that the talent is nowhere near what it's been, you'll find ucla
playing better on thurs games...
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Quote Originally Posted by sloop703:
Can't disagree with you at all. Cal is bad on the road too. But I think both of these teams are so much more talented and can overcome that. They could both be wrong, but I still love both.
Are you an Arizona fan? Any feel on the game tonight? I'll be on Arizona myself.
i posted this on another thread... personally i'm not touching this game because i really don't get any joy betting UCLA unless i know for sure one way or the other...
Good insight... Actually the biggest issue UCLa has had all year is they
just don't have athleticism/quickness which is needed to defend the
perimeter when playing man to man defense... i think Howland has
realized that he really only has 2 decent defenders on the perimeter in
Lamb and Powell and that UCLA's length is better in a zone defense...
howland is very stubborn in his ways, hates playing zone def but has
realized that playing man will result in losses... not to mention
playing man defense really creates foul issues with josh smith pluggin
or hedging on screens... So in the past few weeks ucla has played zone
for most of its games... i will add that Howland is a preparation nut
and probably does it better that 99% of the coaches in the country... So
in conference when games are thurs/sat, you'll find that ucla has much
better success in their thursdays games vs sat games... Granted during
the final four stretch UCLA was so loaded it didn't really matter, but
now that the talent is nowhere near what it's been, you'll find ucla
playing better on thurs games...
Thanks! Perfect Scenario for both of us would be a 1 point win for UCLA. Cover for me, win for you.
Yeah you are so right man. Howland has always been about man-to-man and it's weird to see them playing zone. They tried it in the beginning of 09-10 and it was terrible.
"Zone is not preferred," Howland said, "but it's what is fitting for our team now. We practiced zone at each of our practices this week. We're going to need to use it and be a team that plays both man and zone."
Have they played a strict zone since the 2nd half of that richmond game? I know they used it at penn but i thuoght in the games between those that they went back to man. it worked well @ richmond, and i suppose it worked well at Stanford even though they lost they held them to 60 points....but Cal was an absolute disaster.
They'll probably try some hybrid form of it tonight, i didn't look it up, i dont really care either but i'm thinking it's a good chance to capitalize on a defense that seems to be in flux. Whatever form they come out in I still don't see them being able to stop AZ from scoring...
Great info on the Thurs/Saturday games. I took a quick look at their season last year and you're absolutely right.
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Thanks! Perfect Scenario for both of us would be a 1 point win for UCLA. Cover for me, win for you.
Yeah you are so right man. Howland has always been about man-to-man and it's weird to see them playing zone. They tried it in the beginning of 09-10 and it was terrible.
"Zone is not preferred," Howland said, "but it's what is fitting for our team now. We practiced zone at each of our practices this week. We're going to need to use it and be a team that plays both man and zone."
Have they played a strict zone since the 2nd half of that richmond game? I know they used it at penn but i thuoght in the games between those that they went back to man. it worked well @ richmond, and i suppose it worked well at Stanford even though they lost they held them to 60 points....but Cal was an absolute disaster.
They'll probably try some hybrid form of it tonight, i didn't look it up, i dont really care either but i'm thinking it's a good chance to capitalize on a defense that seems to be in flux. Whatever form they come out in I still don't see them being able to stop AZ from scoring...
Great info on the Thurs/Saturday games. I took a quick look at their season last year and you're absolutely right.
UCLA will have to play zone against Zona or else they will get cut up. Those tall, slow big men will not be able to guard Zona's quickness otherwise.
I'll be on Zona but you can't trust picks coming from a homer.
Only way Zona loses is if they are dead cold from the outside (which could happen being on the "road") or they forget how to beat a zone (which did happen last year - they struggled for a stretch against the zone)
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UCLA will have to play zone against Zona or else they will get cut up. Those tall, slow big men will not be able to guard Zona's quickness otherwise.
I'll be on Zona but you can't trust picks coming from a homer.
Only way Zona loses is if they are dead cold from the outside (which could happen being on the "road") or they forget how to beat a zone (which did happen last year - they struggled for a stretch against the zone)
UCLA will have to play zone against Zona or else they will get cut up. Those tall, slow big men will not be able to guard Zona's quickness otherwise.
I'll be on Zona but you can't trust picks coming from a homer.
Only way Zona loses is if they are dead cold from the outside (which could happen being on the "road") or they forget how to beat a zone (which did happen last year - they struggled for a stretch against the zone)
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Quote Originally Posted by ZonaCats:
UCLA will have to play zone against Zona or else they will get cut up. Those tall, slow big men will not be able to guard Zona's quickness otherwise.
I'll be on Zona but you can't trust picks coming from a homer.
Only way Zona loses is if they are dead cold from the outside (which could happen being on the "road") or they forget how to beat a zone (which did happen last year - they struggled for a stretch against the zone)
Love the analysis, and hope you're spot on with Cal. As a Bears fan who has watched a lot of their games (and attended the games here in KC), the problem with Cal on the road is that they really have just five legitimate players (6 if Solomon is healthy, which he hasn't been, though he made the trip). So if one or two are in foul trouble (more likely on road) or just have an off night (more likely on road) then the drop-off on the bench is really dramatic. And a team like Oregon State that gets up and down is the less good matchup -- see what Missouri and UNLV did -- because running teams are more likely to create more fouls and/or tire out a short-bench team.
Again, hope you nailed this one, but this may be the reason for the line movement.
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Sloop--
Love the analysis, and hope you're spot on with Cal. As a Bears fan who has watched a lot of their games (and attended the games here in KC), the problem with Cal on the road is that they really have just five legitimate players (6 if Solomon is healthy, which he hasn't been, though he made the trip). So if one or two are in foul trouble (more likely on road) or just have an off night (more likely on road) then the drop-off on the bench is really dramatic. And a team like Oregon State that gets up and down is the less good matchup -- see what Missouri and UNLV did -- because running teams are more likely to create more fouls and/or tire out a short-bench team.
Again, hope you nailed this one, but this may be the reason for the line movement.
Adding one more; just a half unit for me on this, as it's primarily for entertainment value. I'm a big CAA fan and just found out this game is televised. This is an awesome rivalry.
Mason +4
In the aftermath of George Mason’s victory over William & Mary on Monday, the locker room was buzzing about Thursday’s game at Old Dominion. The Patriots haven’t won in Norfolk in almost eight years — not during their Final Four run in 2006, not during last winter’s sensational regular season.
In recent years, they’ve ended dreary streaks at Northeastern and UNC Wilmington. A victory at Constant Center, however, has remained elusive.
“It’s something to check off the list,” senior forward Mike Morrison said.
Four of the losses during the seven-game stretch were by a combined nine points. Last year, with the Patriots trailing by two,Andre Cornelius missed a three-pointer with four seconds left and the Monarchs survived, 69-65.
Speaking on the losing streak at ODU, Paul Hewitt, the Patriots’ first-year coach, said his players “realize it because right after the [William & Mary] game, the first thing they said was that we hadn’t won down there in a while. So it’s not like it’s a secret, but at the same time, it’s not a major aspect of our preparation for the game. It’s about preparing for ODU.”
Mason's clearly motivated to win this game, and if ever there's a year for them to break this streak, it's this year. ODU's offense is so, so bad.
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Adding one more; just a half unit for me on this, as it's primarily for entertainment value. I'm a big CAA fan and just found out this game is televised. This is an awesome rivalry.
Mason +4
In the aftermath of George Mason’s victory over William & Mary on Monday, the locker room was buzzing about Thursday’s game at Old Dominion. The Patriots haven’t won in Norfolk in almost eight years — not during their Final Four run in 2006, not during last winter’s sensational regular season.
In recent years, they’ve ended dreary streaks at Northeastern and UNC Wilmington. A victory at Constant Center, however, has remained elusive.
“It’s something to check off the list,” senior forward Mike Morrison said.
Four of the losses during the seven-game stretch were by a combined nine points. Last year, with the Patriots trailing by two,Andre Cornelius missed a three-pointer with four seconds left and the Monarchs survived, 69-65.
Speaking on the losing streak at ODU, Paul Hewitt, the Patriots’ first-year coach, said his players “realize it because right after the [William & Mary] game, the first thing they said was that we hadn’t won down there in a while. So it’s not like it’s a secret, but at the same time, it’s not a major aspect of our preparation for the game. It’s about preparing for ODU.”
Mason's clearly motivated to win this game, and if ever there's a year for them to break this streak, it's this year. ODU's offense is so, so bad.
Love the analysis, and hope you're spot on with Cal. As a Bears fan who has watched a lot of their games (and attended the games here in KC), the problem with Cal on the road is that they really have just five legitimate players (6 if Solomon is healthy, which he hasn't been, though he made the trip). So if one or two are in foul trouble (more likely on road) or just have an off night (more likely on road) then the drop-off on the bench is really dramatic. And a team like Oregon State that gets up and down is the less good matchup -- see what Missouri and UNLV did -- because running teams are more likely to create more fouls and/or tire out a short-bench team.
Again, hope you nailed this one, but this may be the reason for the line movement.
Yeah, they're not really that deep, are they? I was a little concerned about the pace for this game, but (correct me if i'm wrong), Cal returns 4 starters this year, and they seemed to do fine last year against teams that were as quick as Oregon State, with the exception of Washington, who creamed them twice. So I'm banking on their experience and the fact that they were able to beat a quick Oregon St. team twice last year coming into effect here.
Damn, I forgot this game isn't on until 10. Oh well. It should be a good one. How about that insane shooting performance against UCLA on Saturday? Hope we see that again tonight...
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Quote Originally Posted by smoltzfan:
Sloop--
Love the analysis, and hope you're spot on with Cal. As a Bears fan who has watched a lot of their games (and attended the games here in KC), the problem with Cal on the road is that they really have just five legitimate players (6 if Solomon is healthy, which he hasn't been, though he made the trip). So if one or two are in foul trouble (more likely on road) or just have an off night (more likely on road) then the drop-off on the bench is really dramatic. And a team like Oregon State that gets up and down is the less good matchup -- see what Missouri and UNLV did -- because running teams are more likely to create more fouls and/or tire out a short-bench team.
Again, hope you nailed this one, but this may be the reason for the line movement.
Yeah, they're not really that deep, are they? I was a little concerned about the pace for this game, but (correct me if i'm wrong), Cal returns 4 starters this year, and they seemed to do fine last year against teams that were as quick as Oregon State, with the exception of Washington, who creamed them twice. So I'm banking on their experience and the fact that they were able to beat a quick Oregon St. team twice last year coming into effect here.
Damn, I forgot this game isn't on until 10. Oh well. It should be a good one. How about that insane shooting performance against UCLA on Saturday? Hope we see that again tonight...
hey sloop.. been reading your stuff.. great info... keep grinding... just a note.. .you wrote that when wyoming played colorado you noticed no affect of the altitude... the reason is because laramie is actually higher above sea level (7200 ft) or so... just remembered that from a football bet years ago and when i looked it up, my memory was actually right... good luck tonight...
and if someone else already told you this, please disregard
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hey sloop.. been reading your stuff.. great info... keep grinding... just a note.. .you wrote that when wyoming played colorado you noticed no affect of the altitude... the reason is because laramie is actually higher above sea level (7200 ft) or so... just remembered that from a football bet years ago and when i looked it up, my memory was actually right... good luck tonight...
and if someone else already told you this, please disregard
These are the total amount of points Loyola-CH has scored in the first half each D1 game so far this season:
@ illinois: 18 points
@ KSU: 23 points
@ EIU: 32 points
@ Furman: 23 points
vs Fordham: 34 points
@ Milwalkee: 18 points
@ Green Bay: 12 points
vs DePaul: 17 points
@ Toledo: 25 points
vs Chicago St.: 31 points @ Canisius: 20 points
vs Wright St: 18 points vs Detroit: 24 points
So out of a possible 13 games, they've only been able to score over 25 points in the first half three times. These were the games:
1) Chicago State: the 9th fastest team in the country, the #344 overall team, and the #334 defense.
2) Fordham: the 62nd fastest team in the country, #122 defense, #248 overall
3) EIU: #267 overall, #291 defense, #227 pace
So in the Chicago State and Fordham games, it was likely that those teams were really pushing the tempo and that's what allowed Loyola's offense to put up so many points. EIU just sucks. Fordham's defense is pretty good...but that was also the first home game of the season for Loyola, so it's likely they were really pumped to have a strong first half.
Loyola-CH is the 10th slowest team in the country, has the #295 offense, and #196 defense on the #251 overall schedule. Tonight they play Youngstown State- the 55th best shooting 3 point team in the country.
But despite Loyola's poor defensive efficiency stats, they are good at one thing: defending the 3 pointer. In fact, they're #25 in the nation at defending the long ball. Youngstown state is the #3 team in the country at relying on the 3 pointer, and they rely on it for 42.1% of their point distribution.
Youngstown State is #150 in pace, #133 in offense, and #254 in defense. So I'm not crazy about them having a "moderately fast" pace or a weak defense, but still, they're not committed to pushing the pace, and I still don't think Loyola will be able to score.
So here's a recap: Loyola is a perennial slow-starter, scoring over 25 points in the 1st half just 3 times this season out of 13 games, and 6 times scored 20 or less points. These numbers are even worse in the road. They are the 10th slowest team in the country, and are going up against a Youngstown State team that is faster, but still not committed to pushing the pace. Youngstown State relies heavily on the 3 pointer, but Loyola is the #25 team in the country at defending it.
There's absolutely a chance of Youngstown State catching fire and blowing away Loyola's 3-point defensive numbers. And there's also a possibility of a bunch of fouling taking this over the 55.5 1h number. Halves are difficult to play. But I'm pretty confident that Loyola will struggle offensively, and the numbers point in the direction that Youngstown won't get off those 3 pointers as easily. Youngstown has played two teams (Akron and Cleveland State) already that are similar to Loyola at defending the 3. One was more successful than the other. But in the first halves Youngstown still failed to score over 30 points (ok, they scored 29 and 30), and both of those teams are much faster in pace than Loyola is.
22-29 1h
This could not have gone any more perfectly. Another terrible 1h outing by the snails known as Loyola. YESSSSS
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Quote Originally Posted by sloop703:
Loyola CH 1h u55.5
These are the total amount of points Loyola-CH has scored in the first half each D1 game so far this season:
@ illinois: 18 points
@ KSU: 23 points
@ EIU: 32 points
@ Furman: 23 points
vs Fordham: 34 points
@ Milwalkee: 18 points
@ Green Bay: 12 points
vs DePaul: 17 points
@ Toledo: 25 points
vs Chicago St.: 31 points @ Canisius: 20 points
vs Wright St: 18 points vs Detroit: 24 points
So out of a possible 13 games, they've only been able to score over 25 points in the first half three times. These were the games:
1) Chicago State: the 9th fastest team in the country, the #344 overall team, and the #334 defense.
2) Fordham: the 62nd fastest team in the country, #122 defense, #248 overall
3) EIU: #267 overall, #291 defense, #227 pace
So in the Chicago State and Fordham games, it was likely that those teams were really pushing the tempo and that's what allowed Loyola's offense to put up so many points. EIU just sucks. Fordham's defense is pretty good...but that was also the first home game of the season for Loyola, so it's likely they were really pumped to have a strong first half.
Loyola-CH is the 10th slowest team in the country, has the #295 offense, and #196 defense on the #251 overall schedule. Tonight they play Youngstown State- the 55th best shooting 3 point team in the country.
But despite Loyola's poor defensive efficiency stats, they are good at one thing: defending the 3 pointer. In fact, they're #25 in the nation at defending the long ball. Youngstown state is the #3 team in the country at relying on the 3 pointer, and they rely on it for 42.1% of their point distribution.
Youngstown State is #150 in pace, #133 in offense, and #254 in defense. So I'm not crazy about them having a "moderately fast" pace or a weak defense, but still, they're not committed to pushing the pace, and I still don't think Loyola will be able to score.
So here's a recap: Loyola is a perennial slow-starter, scoring over 25 points in the 1st half just 3 times this season out of 13 games, and 6 times scored 20 or less points. These numbers are even worse in the road. They are the 10th slowest team in the country, and are going up against a Youngstown State team that is faster, but still not committed to pushing the pace. Youngstown State relies heavily on the 3 pointer, but Loyola is the #25 team in the country at defending it.
There's absolutely a chance of Youngstown State catching fire and blowing away Loyola's 3-point defensive numbers. And there's also a possibility of a bunch of fouling taking this over the 55.5 1h number. Halves are difficult to play. But I'm pretty confident that Loyola will struggle offensively, and the numbers point in the direction that Youngstown won't get off those 3 pointers as easily. Youngstown has played two teams (Akron and Cleveland State) already that are similar to Loyola at defending the 3. One was more successful than the other. But in the first halves Youngstown still failed to score over 30 points (ok, they scored 29 and 30), and both of those teams are much faster in pace than Loyola is.
22-29 1h
This could not have gone any more perfectly. Another terrible 1h outing by the snails known as Loyola. YESSSSS
If Cal returns 4 starters, it is a bit misleading because they have 2 new starters this year. One of their returning "starters," Brandon Smith, is really a non-factor and isn't even their 6th or 7th best player. They were deeper last year up front, but lost a starter and a couple bench guys to graduation/kicked off team. I have no doubt they can run with Oregon State, but the fatigue and foul factors could play a role.
If they play like they did 2H UCLA, they should be fine.
Quote Originally Posted by sloop703:
Yeah, they're not really that deep, are they? I was a little concerned about the pace for this game, but (correct me if i'm wrong), Cal returns 4 starters this year, and they seemed to do fine last year against teams that were as quick as Oregon State, with the exception of Washington, who creamed them twice. So I'm banking on their experience and the fact that they were able to beat a quick Oregon St. team twice last year coming into effect here.
Damn, I forgot this game isn't on until 10. Oh well. It should be a good one. How about that insane shooting performance against UCLA on Saturday? Hope we see that again tonight...
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If Cal returns 4 starters, it is a bit misleading because they have 2 new starters this year. One of their returning "starters," Brandon Smith, is really a non-factor and isn't even their 6th or 7th best player. They were deeper last year up front, but lost a starter and a couple bench guys to graduation/kicked off team. I have no doubt they can run with Oregon State, but the fatigue and foul factors could play a role.
If they play like they did 2H UCLA, they should be fine.
Quote Originally Posted by sloop703:
Yeah, they're not really that deep, are they? I was a little concerned about the pace for this game, but (correct me if i'm wrong), Cal returns 4 starters this year, and they seemed to do fine last year against teams that were as quick as Oregon State, with the exception of Washington, who creamed them twice. So I'm banking on their experience and the fact that they were able to beat a quick Oregon St. team twice last year coming into effect here.
Damn, I forgot this game isn't on until 10. Oh well. It should be a good one. How about that insane shooting performance against UCLA on Saturday? Hope we see that again tonight...
Oh my god. Did Monroe really only score 7 points in the first half against this horrible FAU defense?!?!?! The same team that Arkansas St. beat by TWO points?
I'm going to hate myself if Denver beats them by double digits...and it's probably going to happen...
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Oh my god. Did Monroe really only score 7 points in the first half against this horrible FAU defense?!?!?! The same team that Arkansas St. beat by TWO points?
I'm going to hate myself if Denver beats them by double digits...and it's probably going to happen...
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