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    All Forums | Systems & Strategies

    Interesting findings concerning NHL O/U

    jhudd70
    jv040
    calinreddog
    gasman33
    desertfx
    ...
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    Views: 1030
    Posts: 24
     
    jhudd70
    jhudd70
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    Posted: Jan. 16, 2009 - 4:21 AM ET #1

    I decided to see if we could use the last 5 games to determine o/u trends in the NHL. I used this formula: Here's an example:
     
    From Jan. 15th              GFA    GAA     LAST 5 GMS
                              BOS    3.20   2.20
                            @NYI     2.40   4.00
     
    Take BOS GFA(3.2)+NYI GAA(4.0), and divide by 2 (7.2/2=3.6)
    next NYI GFA(2.4)+BOS GAA(2.2), and divide by 2 (4.6/2=2.3)
     
    Add the totals (3.6+2.3=5.9) and play according to the total. In this case the total was set at 5.5, so you would play the over. I thought this might help find a trend, based on which teams were playing well on offensive or defense. Boy, was i off! Been tracking for 7 days and betting o/u using this formula would have netted me 13 winners and 29 losers! Not what i expected, but i'm gonna keep tracking. This could be some serious fade material if these numbers continue. Any thoughts? Anyone try this or something similiar before?
                               
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    I decided to see if we could use the last 5 games to determine o/u trends in the NHL. I used this formula: Here's an example:
     
    From Jan. 15th              GFA    GAA     LAST 5 GMS
                              BOS    3.20   2.20
                            @NYI     2.40   4.00
     
    Take BOS GFA(3.2)+NYI GAA(4.0), and divide by 2 (7.2/2=3.6)
    next NYI GFA(2.4)+BOS GAA(2.2), and divide by 2 (4.6/2=2.3)
     
    Add the totals (3.6+2.3=5.9) and play according to the total. In this case the total was set at 5.5, so you would play the over. I thought this might help find a trend, based on which teams were playing well on offensive or defense. Boy, was i off! Been tracking for 7 days and betting o/u using this formula would have netted me 13 winners and 29 losers! Not what i expected, but i'm gonna keep tracking. This could be some serious fade material if these numbers continue. Any thoughts? Anyone try this or something similiar before?
                               
     
    jv040
    jv040
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    Posted: Jan. 16, 2009 - 9:41 AM ET #2

    I think it will eventualy even out
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    I think it will eventualy even out
     
    calinreddog
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    Posted: Jan. 16, 2009 - 11:23 AM ET #3

    I also tried all kind of formulas to predict over/under not only for hockey, but also for soccer... But, the truth is beyond our knowledge...
    My systems worked at 72% for a week or two but after that I went broke. The idea is that they are all coming back somewhere to 50% and the odds are really not in your favour. The oddsmakers are very good statisticians and you can't beat them with their own weapons. 
    In the end I decided that the best approach is to treat the games as particular events that need to be analised in a very particular manner, beginning with the stats and finishing with the situational and psychological implications.
    My conclusion is that there is no system that lasts for ever and that applies to all games. Every game is a particular event and just take it as it is.
    Good luck anyway!
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    I also tried all kind of formulas to predict over/under not only for hockey, but also for soccer... But, the truth is beyond our knowledge...
    My systems worked at 72% for a week or two but after that I went broke. The idea is that they are all coming back somewhere to 50% and the odds are really not in your favour. The oddsmakers are very good statisticians and you can't beat them with their own weapons. 
    In the end I decided that the best approach is to treat the games as particular events that need to be analised in a very particular manner, beginning with the stats and finishing with the situational and psychological implications.
    My conclusion is that there is no system that lasts for ever and that applies to all games. Every game is a particular event and just take it as it is.
    Good luck anyway!
     
    calinreddog
    calinreddog
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    Posted: Jan. 16, 2009 - 11:56 AM ET #4

    Why don't you research a little this one:
    Work only with the offensive stats.
    Take into consideration the offensive for the last 5 games and the overall offensive. Substract the L5  offensive average from the overall offensive average and add the resulted difference to the overall offensive average and that will give the scoring of team A for the next game.
    Example: 16.01.09, Anaheim at Pittsburgh:
    Anaheim: overall = 2.8 
    last 5 = 3.2, so 2.8 - 3.2 = -0.4 and 2.8 + (-0.4) = 2.4
    Pittsburgh: overall = 3.0
     last 5 = 3.2, so 3.0 - 3.2 = -0.2 and 3.0 + (-0.2) = 2.8
    So, we expekt Anaheim to score 2.4 and Pittsburgh to score 2.8, so together they will score 5.2. We'll round up the total at 5 and play the under 5.5.
    I haven't tested the formula, but the basic idea is that any average must come back to its mean value. After a mountain comes a valley in order to stay to ground zero or at sea level.

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    Why don't you research a little this one:
    Work only with the offensive stats.
    Take into consideration the offensive for the last 5 games and the overall offensive. Substract the L5  offensive average from the overall offensive average and add the resulted difference to the overall offensive average and that will give the scoring of team A for the next game.
    Example: 16.01.09, Anaheim at Pittsburgh:
    Anaheim: overall = 2.8 
    last 5 = 3.2, so 2.8 - 3.2 = -0.4 and 2.8 + (-0.4) = 2.4
    Pittsburgh: overall = 3.0
     last 5 = 3.2, so 3.0 - 3.2 = -0.2 and 3.0 + (-0.2) = 2.8
    So, we expekt Anaheim to score 2.4 and Pittsburgh to score 2.8, so together they will score 5.2. We'll round up the total at 5 and play the under 5.5.
    I haven't tested the formula, but the basic idea is that any average must come back to its mean value. After a mountain comes a valley in order to stay to ground zero or at sea level.

     
    calinreddog
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    Posted: Jan. 16, 2009 - 2:33 PM ET #5

    Let's test the formula together, here on this forum:
    Accordingly to my theory, the totals would be:
    Anaheim@Pittsburgh 5.2 play under 5.5
    Toronto@Atlanta 6.8 play over 6.5
    Philadelphia@Florida 4.4 play under 5.5
    NYRangers@Chicago 6.4 play over 5.5
    Edmonton@Colorado 5.4 play under 5.5
    NewJersey@Columbus 5.6 no play 
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    Let's test the formula together, here on this forum:
    Accordingly to my theory, the totals would be:
    Anaheim@Pittsburgh 5.2 play under 5.5
    Toronto@Atlanta 6.8 play over 6.5
    Philadelphia@Florida 4.4 play under 5.5
    NYRangers@Chicago 6.4 play over 5.5
    Edmonton@Colorado 5.4 play under 5.5
    NewJersey@Columbus 5.6 no play 
     
    gasman33
    gasman33
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    Posted: Jan. 16, 2009 - 6:07 PM ET #6

    ......sweet....
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    ......sweet....
     
    calinreddog
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 4:34 AM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by calinreddog:

    Let's test the formula together, here on this forum:
    Accordingly to my theory, the totals would be:
    Anaheim@Pittsburgh 5.2 play under 5.5
    Toronto@Atlanta 6.8 play over 6.5
    Philadelphia@Florida 4.4 play under 5.5
    NYRangers@Chicago 6.4 play over 5.5
    Edmonton@Colorado 5.4 play under 5.5
    NewJersey@Columbus 5.6 no play 
    Anaheim@Pittsburgh = 5 = win
    Toronto@Atlanta = 7 = win
    Philadelphia@Florida = 5 = win
    NYRangers@Chicago = 5 = loss (next game)
    Edmonton@Colorado = 5 = win.
    4-1 W-L.
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    Quote Originally Posted by calinreddog:

    Let's test the formula together, here on this forum:
    Accordingly to my theory, the totals would be:
    Anaheim@Pittsburgh 5.2 play under 5.5
    Toronto@Atlanta 6.8 play over 6.5
    Philadelphia@Florida 4.4 play under 5.5
    NYRangers@Chicago 6.4 play over 5.5
    Edmonton@Colorado 5.4 play under 5.5
    NewJersey@Columbus 5.6 no play 
    Anaheim@Pittsburgh = 5 = win
    Toronto@Atlanta = 7 = win
    Philadelphia@Florida = 5 = win
    NYRangers@Chicago = 5 = loss (next game)
    Edmonton@Colorado = 5 = win.
    4-1 W-L.
     
    jhudd70
    jhudd70
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 5:53 AM ET #8

    Dog, continue to run your formula in this thread if you wish. I'll continue to update what has become my system to fade,lol.
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    Dog, continue to run your formula in this thread if you wish. I'll continue to update what has become my system to fade,lol.
     
    calinreddog
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 9:32 AM ET #9

    I am concerned about your system (fading the offensive and deffensive numbers for the last 5). If it keeps his "success" (13-29) as you said first than it's a gold mine. I think everybody cares about the money and not about the logic of the system. If it works it's perfect.
    Anyway, you have an interesting approach. Most of the players are trying to pick winners, overs and so on. Your system to fade the most recent evidence is very interesting.
    Good luck and please share your latest results.
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    I am concerned about your system (fading the offensive and deffensive numbers for the last 5). If it keeps his "success" (13-29) as you said first than it's a gold mine. I think everybody cares about the money and not about the logic of the system. If it works it's perfect.
    Anyway, you have an interesting approach. Most of the players are trying to pick winners, overs and so on. Your system to fade the most recent evidence is very interesting.
    Good luck and please share your latest results.
     
    calinreddog
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 10:20 AM ET #10

    Tonight O/U and moneyline plays:
    LA = 3.4 @ Dallas = 3.2 total =  6.6 
    play over 5.5 and LA moneyline
    Carolina = 3.0 @ Buffalo = 3.4 total = 6.4 
    play over 5.5 and Buffalo moneyline
    Montreal = 1.8 @ Ottawa = 2.0 total = 3.8 
    play under 5.5 and Ottawa moneyline
    NewJersey = 3.0 @ NYIslanders = 3.2 total = 6.2 
    play over 5.5 and NYIslanders moneyline
    Boston = 4.0 @ Washington = 3.8 total = 7.8
    play over 6.0 and Boston moneyline
    Florida = 1.0 @ TampaBay = 2.0 total = 3.0
    play under 5.5 and TB moneyline
    Atlanta = 2.6 @ Nashville = 2.0 total = 4.6
    play under 5.5 and Atlanta moneyline
    Chicago = 4.8 @ StLouis = 2.0 total = 6.8
    play over 6.0 and Chicago puckline
    Anaheim = 2.8 @ Minnesota = 2.0 total = 4.8
    play under 5.5 and Anaheim moneyline
    Phoenix = 3.0 @ Calgary = 2.8 total = 5.8
    play over 5.5 and Phoenix moneyline
    Detroit = 3.0 @ San Jose = 3.2 total = 6.2
    play over 5.5 and SanJose moneyline


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    Tonight O/U and moneyline plays:
    LA = 3.4 @ Dallas = 3.2 total =  6.6 
    play over 5.5 and LA moneyline
    Carolina = 3.0 @ Buffalo = 3.4 total = 6.4 
    play over 5.5 and Buffalo moneyline
    Montreal = 1.8 @ Ottawa = 2.0 total = 3.8 
    play under 5.5 and Ottawa moneyline
    NewJersey = 3.0 @ NYIslanders = 3.2 total = 6.2 
    play over 5.5 and NYIslanders moneyline
    Boston = 4.0 @ Washington = 3.8 total = 7.8
    play over 6.0 and Boston moneyline
    Florida = 1.0 @ TampaBay = 2.0 total = 3.0
    play under 5.5 and TB moneyline
    Atlanta = 2.6 @ Nashville = 2.0 total = 4.6
    play under 5.5 and Atlanta moneyline
    Chicago = 4.8 @ StLouis = 2.0 total = 6.8
    play over 6.0 and Chicago puckline
    Anaheim = 2.8 @ Minnesota = 2.0 total = 4.8
    play under 5.5 and Anaheim moneyline
    Phoenix = 3.0 @ Calgary = 2.8 total = 5.8
    play over 5.5 and Phoenix moneyline
    Detroit = 3.0 @ San Jose = 3.2 total = 6.2
    play over 5.5 and SanJose moneyline


     
    desertfx
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 11:14 AM ET #11

    hey dog   where r u getting your stats for the last 5 games. or how r u arriving at them  i would like to try it myself----kind of a quirk of mine        thnx  
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    hey dog   where r u getting your stats for the last 5 games. or how r u arriving at them  i would like to try it myself----kind of a quirk of mine        thnx  
     
    calinreddog
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 12:32 PM ET #12

    I get the last 5 stats from the matchups on covers.com:
    https://scores.covers.com/hockey-scores-matchups.aspx, select the "matchup" and on the bottom right side you'll find statistics (overall, home and away, lat 5 and so on).
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    I get the last 5 stats from the matchups on covers.com:
    https://scores.covers.com/hockey-scores-matchups.aspx, select the "matchup" and on the bottom right side you'll find statistics (overall, home and away, lat 5 and so on).
     
    jhudd70
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 2:10 PM ET #13

    1-4 last night with 1 no play. Since Jan 9th, 14-33-1. Will not be betting this system however until we get get more data. Still waiting to see if things even out.
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    1-4 last night with 1 no play. Since Jan 9th, 14-33-1. Will not be betting this system however until we get get more data. Still waiting to see if things even out.
     
    calinreddog
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 2:17 PM ET #14

    But that's 70% success rate. 
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    But that's 70% success rate. 
     
    fourfourdeagle
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 3:44 PM ET #15

    calinreddog

    Your  system seems interesting.  How are you coming up with who to play on the moneyline along with the over/under?

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    calinreddog

    Your  system seems interesting.  How are you coming up with who to play on the moneyline along with the over/under?

     
    JoshLewis
    JoshLewis
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 5:07 PM ET #16

    Looks interesting Calinreddog. 4-1 is an impressive result.
    GL tonight!
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    Looks interesting Calinreddog. 4-1 is an impressive result.
    GL tonight!
     
    jerm73
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 8:13 PM ET #17

    A little off topic here, but I figured maybe the right spot to ask...... does anyone have an idea of what the probability of 1(any) team losing as a dog or as a fav. (-1.5) for say 3-4 in a row? To clarify lets say tonight blackhawks -1.5 at +170 and St. Louis as dog at +140 I play both for the same unit if blackhawks win by 1 I Ioose on both sides, if I chase the blachawks for the next 2 or 3 games using the same system whether they are dogs or favs would you think they would either cover the -1.5 as favs or win str8 up as dogs?
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    A little off topic here, but I figured maybe the right spot to ask...... does anyone have an idea of what the probability of 1(any) team losing as a dog or as a fav. (-1.5) for say 3-4 in a row? To clarify lets say tonight blackhawks -1.5 at +170 and St. Louis as dog at +140 I play both for the same unit if blackhawks win by 1 I Ioose on both sides, if I chase the blachawks for the next 2 or 3 games using the same system whether they are dogs or favs would you think they would either cover the -1.5 as favs or win str8 up as dogs?
     
    fourfourdeagle
    fourfourdeagle
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2009 - 8:29 PM ET #18

    There is alot of variables in your question.  A good baseline is if you want to know the chance of a team losing 4 times in a row, with everything being equal, you just do .5*.5*.5*.5=.0625.  So if everything was equal there is about a 6% chance the team would lose 4 times in a row.  You can replace the .5 with whatever the odds are on the game you are wondering.  Beware though, 6% in the above example seems unlikely, but it happens way more than you think.  Which is why casinos and sportsbooks make so much money :)   good luck.
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    There is alot of variables in your question.  A good baseline is if you want to know the chance of a team losing 4 times in a row, with everything being equal, you just do .5*.5*.5*.5=.0625.  So if everything was equal there is about a 6% chance the team would lose 4 times in a row.  You can replace the .5 with whatever the odds are on the game you are wondering.  Beware though, 6% in the above example seems unlikely, but it happens way more than you think.  Which is why casinos and sportsbooks make so much money :)   good luck.
     
    calinreddog
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    Posted: Jan. 18, 2009 - 5:56 AM ET #19

    Thank you guys for your opinions but please forget about my formula.
    As you have seen already it's a disaster.
    I'll take a break from systems and formulas, because they'll burn all my money.
    Tonight I was 
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    Thank you guys for your opinions but please forget about my formula.
    As you have seen already it's a disaster.
    I'll take a break from systems and formulas, because they'll burn all my money.
    Tonight I was 
     
    jhudd70
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    Posted: Jan. 18, 2009 - 1:30 PM ET #20

    Last night, was NOT a night to fade the formula.8-2 last night, brings the record to 22-35-1, 62.8%. Dog's formula went 4-7 last night. Will see if the trends even out.
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    Last night, was NOT a night to fade the formula.8-2 last night, brings the record to 22-35-1, 62.8%. Dog's formula went 4-7 last night. Will see if the trends even out.
     
    desertfx
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    Posted: Jan. 19, 2009 - 8:32 AM ET #21

    dog   take another look at your formula.     reverse what u r
    betting.  if it says bet over----bet under and take a look?  now your success rate is???????????????  
     
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    dog   take another look at your formula.     reverse what u r
    betting.  if it says bet over----bet under and take a look?  now your success rate is???????????????  
     
     
    jhudd70
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    Posted: Jan. 19, 2009 - 11:00 PM ET #22

    4-6 the last 2 nights, ytd 26-41...fade at 61%. 
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    4-6 the last 2 nights, ytd 26-41...fade at 61%. 
     
    rudie
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2009 - 12:21 AM ET #23

    you guys are beating a dead horse. any system or theory you think you are coming up with is not usable by any stretch of the imagination. there are no consistant stats that can lead you to predict the nhl. think about it, there are no books on handicapping the nhl. there are very few handicapper that sell their nhl picks because there isnt a solid system or piece of information to really follow for handicapping nhl. any numbers or ideas that you come up wth dont hold up for the long term. they are all hit and miss, you just dont know when to hit and avoid the misses. as always good luck.
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    you guys are beating a dead horse. any system or theory you think you are coming up with is not usable by any stretch of the imagination. there are no consistant stats that can lead you to predict the nhl. think about it, there are no books on handicapping the nhl. there are very few handicapper that sell their nhl picks because there isnt a solid system or piece of information to really follow for handicapping nhl. any numbers or ideas that you come up wth dont hold up for the long term. they are all hit and miss, you just dont know when to hit and avoid the misses. as always good luck.
     
     
    jhudd70
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    Posted: Jan. 29, 2009 - 3:20 AM ET #24

    System update thru 1/28 is 46-51. Things are starting to even out, just as i thought they might. As far as rudie's comments, i do believe you can find some consistent strategies for NHL betting, at least some things you can add to your capping arsenal.
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    System update thru 1/28 is 46-51. Things are starting to even out, just as i thought they might. As far as rudie's comments, i do believe you can find some consistent strategies for NHL betting, at least some things you can add to your capping arsenal.
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