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    All Forums | Soccer

    World Cup Knockout Tournament.... Round of 16 and on....

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    Raiders22
    vanzack
    Learnersrealm
    begginerboy
    arkadymo
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    «First Previous 91011 ... 161718 Next Last»
     
    Raiders22
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 7:08 PM ET #201

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnstorm:


    Can you imagine having off-sides in basketball?! No fast breaks?!

    No goalie in BB ---why don't BB team have a guy sort hang close to taking off up court more often?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnstorm:


    Can you imagine having off-sides in basketball?! No fast breaks?!

    No goalie in BB ---why don't BB team have a guy sort hang close to taking off up court more often?

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 7:38 PM ET #202

    Germany / France - France to advance +125 (3 units) - Should be a great game.  Im pretty sure that my nemesis Olivier Giroud (not from the WC, but this guy screws me continuously when I bet on or against Arsenal) will not see any more time for the French.  When he is out there, the French have had no punch offensively - except against Switzerland when everyone had punch offensively.  Greizman and Valbuena make a much better pairing for Benzema - and I am prettty confident that is what we will see from here on out.

     

    The French were so lucky to win against Nigeria, and so lucky to win me my wager.  Matuidi should have had a red card at about the 60 minute mark, but instead of red, he got yellow and took out Nigerias best player to that point in the game.  Its amazing what that one call meant to the game.  But at that same point is when Giroud came out - and Valbuena and Griezman pushed up - and it was all France from that point forward.  Germany is weak on the Howedes side, and I still say that Lahm and Mertesacker are also vulnerable for different reasons.  Mertesacker because he is painfully immobile, while Lahm because he loses the ball in possession way too much.  The Algerians almost fully exposed this with their excellent counter attack - but just didnt have the talent in the end to finish.  But France does - and the key to this game will be if the French can turn the ball over and quickly exploit the Germany defense.

     

    I also think the German attack seems stiffled when defenses clog the middle.  Both Algeria and the US used this tactic almost to perfection, and I cant see the French doing anything different.  The vulnerability for the French is the space in behind Evra when he pushes up - because Benzema wont play defense ever - and there could be lots of space if Germany gets in behind Evra's side.  But the Germans just seem to refuse to play like this - opting for wanting to string 20 passes together and then pass it in to the net.

     

    Its do or die time for this talented French side.  This is the test.  The Germans are cominng off of an OT game which they were fully tested, and there has been rumors of a team-wide virus in the German camp  - and I will choose to believe it because I want to - and will take any advantage I can get.  Predicted final score France 1 Germany 0

     

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    Germany / France - France to advance +125 (3 units) - Should be a great game.  Im pretty sure that my nemesis Olivier Giroud (not from the WC, but this guy screws me continuously when I bet on or against Arsenal) will not see any more time for the French.  When he is out there, the French have had no punch offensively - except against Switzerland when everyone had punch offensively.  Greizman and Valbuena make a much better pairing for Benzema - and I am prettty confident that is what we will see from here on out.

     

    The French were so lucky to win against Nigeria, and so lucky to win me my wager.  Matuidi should have had a red card at about the 60 minute mark, but instead of red, he got yellow and took out Nigerias best player to that point in the game.  Its amazing what that one call meant to the game.  But at that same point is when Giroud came out - and Valbuena and Griezman pushed up - and it was all France from that point forward.  Germany is weak on the Howedes side, and I still say that Lahm and Mertesacker are also vulnerable for different reasons.  Mertesacker because he is painfully immobile, while Lahm because he loses the ball in possession way too much.  The Algerians almost fully exposed this with their excellent counter attack - but just didnt have the talent in the end to finish.  But France does - and the key to this game will be if the French can turn the ball over and quickly exploit the Germany defense.

     

    I also think the German attack seems stiffled when defenses clog the middle.  Both Algeria and the US used this tactic almost to perfection, and I cant see the French doing anything different.  The vulnerability for the French is the space in behind Evra when he pushes up - because Benzema wont play defense ever - and there could be lots of space if Germany gets in behind Evra's side.  But the Germans just seem to refuse to play like this - opting for wanting to string 20 passes together and then pass it in to the net.

     

    Its do or die time for this talented French side.  This is the test.  The Germans are cominng off of an OT game which they were fully tested, and there has been rumors of a team-wide virus in the German camp  - and I will choose to believe it because I want to - and will take any advantage I can get.  Predicted final score France 1 Germany 0

     

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 7:38 PM ET #203

    Colombia / Brazil - Colombia +.5 +110 (1 unit) Colombia to advance +215 (1 unit) - I cant resist.  Call me a square.  I know everyone is on this, and I will join the masses.  Current form and potential vs pedigree and home field.

     

    But everything in recent form points to the Colombians to at least play a close game here.  Brazil is coming off of the exhausting PK shootout - and their third performance out of four that has to be seriously questioned.  They just dont look to have a style that fits them - they have changed it up almost every game - and nobody is stepping up to lead the team.  Oscar was the star of the first game against Croatia - but has disappeared since.  Hulk had a decent game against Chile, but terrible otherwise.  Fred cant hit the side of a barn.  Mark my words - Julio (or as I call him - Julia) Caesar is a liability and will make a mistake or two that will knock this team out.  I have seen too much of this guy at my club team QPR to trust him.

     

    Chile was a great example of one way to beat Brazil - they played a frantic press that led to their goal off of a steal on a throw in - and disrupted Brazil all game.  They turned it in to an ugly turnover fest that Brazil really didnt have much answer for - it disrupted what Brazil wanted to do and what they did in the first 15 minutes of the game.  Colombia has the speed to pull off what Chile did - but have more individual finishing quality.

     

    Colombia couldnt be more the opposite.  They are quietly winning with their defense - still only allowing  2 goals (a late goal to IC and a meaningless goal to Japan) in 4 games.  Yes - they havent played the brightest offensive teams in the tournament - and I am nervous that the lack of competition might be putting bias in to my selection.  Their defense is relatively untested and I worry that if they are to collapse it will definitely be in the defensive third.  I think there will be lots of wing play by Colombia - with outside in runs to get behind the Brazilian defense with speed - and like I said earlier - sometimes it is as simple as finishing - and Colombia has provent hat they can put the ball on net.  Predicted final score Colombia 2 Brazil 1

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    Colombia / Brazil - Colombia +.5 +110 (1 unit) Colombia to advance +215 (1 unit) - I cant resist.  Call me a square.  I know everyone is on this, and I will join the masses.  Current form and potential vs pedigree and home field.

     

    But everything in recent form points to the Colombians to at least play a close game here.  Brazil is coming off of the exhausting PK shootout - and their third performance out of four that has to be seriously questioned.  They just dont look to have a style that fits them - they have changed it up almost every game - and nobody is stepping up to lead the team.  Oscar was the star of the first game against Croatia - but has disappeared since.  Hulk had a decent game against Chile, but terrible otherwise.  Fred cant hit the side of a barn.  Mark my words - Julio (or as I call him - Julia) Caesar is a liability and will make a mistake or two that will knock this team out.  I have seen too much of this guy at my club team QPR to trust him.

     

    Chile was a great example of one way to beat Brazil - they played a frantic press that led to their goal off of a steal on a throw in - and disrupted Brazil all game.  They turned it in to an ugly turnover fest that Brazil really didnt have much answer for - it disrupted what Brazil wanted to do and what they did in the first 15 minutes of the game.  Colombia has the speed to pull off what Chile did - but have more individual finishing quality.

     

    Colombia couldnt be more the opposite.  They are quietly winning with their defense - still only allowing  2 goals (a late goal to IC and a meaningless goal to Japan) in 4 games.  Yes - they havent played the brightest offensive teams in the tournament - and I am nervous that the lack of competition might be putting bias in to my selection.  Their defense is relatively untested and I worry that if they are to collapse it will definitely be in the defensive third.  I think there will be lots of wing play by Colombia - with outside in runs to get behind the Brazilian defense with speed - and like I said earlier - sometimes it is as simple as finishing - and Colombia has provent hat they can put the ball on net.  Predicted final score Colombia 2 Brazil 1

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 7:50 PM ET #204

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    Thoughts on tweaking offsides rule? What do you think strategy would be if there were no offsides, etc.  Or you much prefer the current rule as it is?

    It would so drastically change the game that guys like Messi might not even have a place in the sport.

    It is really impossible to even consider eliminating the offside rule.

    In the old old old days - the NASL had a "35 yard line" - instead of the half way line to enforce offside.  A very good article on it...    https://www.ussoccerplayers.com/a-worthy-experiment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    Thoughts on tweaking offsides rule? What do you think strategy would be if there were no offsides, etc.  Or you much prefer the current rule as it is?

    It would so drastically change the game that guys like Messi might not even have a place in the sport.

    It is really impossible to even consider eliminating the offside rule.

    In the old old old days - the NASL had a "35 yard line" - instead of the half way line to enforce offside.  A very good article on it...    https://www.ussoccerplayers.com/a-worthy-experiment

     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 8:07 PM ET #205

    I couldn't fault you on any part of your analysis except I disagree  Julio Ceasar is a liability. This is a guy who nearly singlehandedly got them out of the Chile quagmire. I felt the same about Colombian captain Yepes, that he will be the major liability, but after his last solid performance I'm beginnning to think I may have been too harsh having seen enough of his poor performances in Colombia's elimination games.

    If I wasn't a Colombian resident with the family to boot, there is zero, zilch way I would be on Colombia tomorrow as much as I want them to win. Theitdefense sucks. Watch tomorrow. I hope I'm wrong. Lord, please  show I'm being a two bit devil's advocate and that Colombia can actually draw or beat this side.
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    I couldn't fault you on any part of your analysis except I disagree  Julio Ceasar is a liability. This is a guy who nearly singlehandedly got them out of the Chile quagmire. I felt the same about Colombian captain Yepes, that he will be the major liability, but after his last solid performance I'm beginnning to think I may have been too harsh having seen enough of his poor performances in Colombia's elimination games.

    If I wasn't a Colombian resident with the family to boot, there is zero, zilch way I would be on Colombia tomorrow as much as I want them to win. Theitdefense sucks. Watch tomorrow. I hope I'm wrong. Lord, please  show I'm being a two bit devil's advocate and that Colombia can actually draw or beat this side.
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 8:09 PM ET #206

    Argentina / Belgium - Belgium PK and +.5 in 90 mins +105 (1.5 units), Belgium to advance +150 (1.5 units) - I have come to hate this Belgium team.  Beating the US was the final straw, but their cardiac performances in every game were at times not worth winning the bet.  And that TinTin lookalike Kevin De Bruyne needs to just go away.  But all of that being said - there is a blueprint to beat Argentina that has been exposed in their last several games.

     

    Its simple.  Stop Messi.  Yes, I know....  But you cant point to any one team in this tournament that has relied on one player more - not only for scoring - but if you watch Argentinas performance against Switzerland it was funny at times how when Argentina got the ball they only looked for one thing - Messi.  So Switzerland marked him all game - a lot of times with 2 and sometimes even 3 - and they almost pulled it off.  There is no creativity outside of Messi on Argentina - and they have come to rely on him too much.  I almost think they would be better off benching the guy - because then at least the other great players would actually play instead of always feeding the beast.  Iran almost did it.  Bosnia almost did it.  Nigeria didnt try to do it.  Switzerland did it - and almost pulled it off.  Argentina is flawed and I have yet to see a plan B, and these one dimensional teams lose - it is always just a matter of time.

     

    But I wish it wasnt Belgium.  The argument could easily be made that Belgiums games so far are almost a mirror image of Argentinas - with one exception - the hero has come from more than one guy.  But still - Belgium clearly hasnt been impressive.  Their issues stem from their ability to dominate in games for long stretches but their total inability to finish.  And in the end - finishing is what wins games - and bets.  But I am banking on Wilmots putting two marks on Messi in the midfield and kicking the hell out of his ankles at every opportunity.  In transition -Belgiums speed should give Argentina's back 4 problems - especially Rojo who has been extremely adventurous and sometimes leaving big space behind him.

     

    So it is pretty simple.  Make someone other than Messi beat you - and force Argentina to play a plan b.  I picked Argentina to win the tournament before it started - but nothing I have seen from them make me believe they can do it unless there is a massive shift in their philosophy.  Last world cup the Argentinians were upset that Maradona made Messi invisible - I think this time they will be upset that Sabella made Messi the only option.  This is a really close game - and I dont see why Argentina are favored.  Predicted final score 1-1 and someone wins in PK's.

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    Argentina / Belgium - Belgium PK and +.5 in 90 mins +105 (1.5 units), Belgium to advance +150 (1.5 units) - I have come to hate this Belgium team.  Beating the US was the final straw, but their cardiac performances in every game were at times not worth winning the bet.  And that TinTin lookalike Kevin De Bruyne needs to just go away.  But all of that being said - there is a blueprint to beat Argentina that has been exposed in their last several games.

     

    Its simple.  Stop Messi.  Yes, I know....  But you cant point to any one team in this tournament that has relied on one player more - not only for scoring - but if you watch Argentinas performance against Switzerland it was funny at times how when Argentina got the ball they only looked for one thing - Messi.  So Switzerland marked him all game - a lot of times with 2 and sometimes even 3 - and they almost pulled it off.  There is no creativity outside of Messi on Argentina - and they have come to rely on him too much.  I almost think they would be better off benching the guy - because then at least the other great players would actually play instead of always feeding the beast.  Iran almost did it.  Bosnia almost did it.  Nigeria didnt try to do it.  Switzerland did it - and almost pulled it off.  Argentina is flawed and I have yet to see a plan B, and these one dimensional teams lose - it is always just a matter of time.

     

    But I wish it wasnt Belgium.  The argument could easily be made that Belgiums games so far are almost a mirror image of Argentinas - with one exception - the hero has come from more than one guy.  But still - Belgium clearly hasnt been impressive.  Their issues stem from their ability to dominate in games for long stretches but their total inability to finish.  And in the end - finishing is what wins games - and bets.  But I am banking on Wilmots putting two marks on Messi in the midfield and kicking the hell out of his ankles at every opportunity.  In transition -Belgiums speed should give Argentina's back 4 problems - especially Rojo who has been extremely adventurous and sometimes leaving big space behind him.

     

    So it is pretty simple.  Make someone other than Messi beat you - and force Argentina to play a plan b.  I picked Argentina to win the tournament before it started - but nothing I have seen from them make me believe they can do it unless there is a massive shift in their philosophy.  Last world cup the Argentinians were upset that Maradona made Messi invisible - I think this time they will be upset that Sabella made Messi the only option.  This is a really close game - and I dont see why Argentina are favored.  Predicted final score 1-1 and someone wins in PK's.

     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 9:26 PM ET #207

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Germany / France - France to advance +125 (3 units) - Should be a great game.  Im pretty sure that my nemesis Olivier Giroud (not from the WC, but this guy screws me continuously when I bet on or against Arsenal) will not see any more time for the French.  When he is out there, the French have had no punch offensively - except against Switzerland when everyone had punch offensively.  Greizman and Valbuena make a much better pairing for Benzema - and I am prettty confident that is what we will see from here on out.

     

    The French were so lucky to win against Nigeria, and so lucky to win me my wager.  Matuidi should have had a red card at about the 60 minute mark, but instead of red, he got yellow and took out Nigerias best player to that point in the game.  Its amazing what that one call meant to the game.  But at that same point is when Giroud came out - and Valbuena and Griezman pushed up - and it was all France from that point forward.  Germany is weak on the Howedes side, and I still say that Lahm and Mertesacker are also vulnerable for different reasons.  Mertesacker because he is painfully immobile, while Lahm because he loses the ball in possession way too much.  The Algerians almost fully exposed this with their excellent counter attack - but just didnt have the talent in the end to finish.  But France does - and the key to this game will be if the French can turn the ball over and quickly exploit the Germany defense.

     

    I also think the German attack seems stiffled when defenses clog the middle.  Both Algeria and the US used this tactic almost to perfection, and I cant see the French doing anything different.  The vulnerability for the French is the space in behind Evra when he pushes up - because Benzema wont play defense ever - and there could be lots of space if Germany gets in behind Evra's side.  But the Germans just seem to refuse to play like this - opting for wanting to string 20 passes together and then pass it in to the net.

     

    Its do or die time for this talented French side.  This is the test.  The Germans are cominng off of an OT game which they were fully tested, and there has been rumors of a team-wide virus in the German camp  - and I will choose to believe it because I want to - and will take any advantage I can get.  Predicted final score France 1 Germany 0

     


    Oh Vanz, you're breaking my heart. As a boy I recall watching Germany and France in 1982 and rooting for Germany, with their fearless goalkeeper, Schumacher. On that day they kept a young boys dream alive by coming back from 0-2 in OT to beat the French on penalty kicks (only to be done in by the pesky Italians in the final). On that day, I also learned to never count the Germans out. If any team can overcome fatigue, sickness, etc and win a game on this stage, it is the Germans. I think you are picking the correct side but I just can't bet on the French. Not only because I'll be rooting for Germany and their great team spirit but also because I just can't trust the French. I'm very grateful for their win against Nigeria and they certainly have the upper hand here and should be (IMO) favorites (or at least even) but after seeing them wilt in 82 and again against Italy when Zidane imploded I just don't trust them (and that's to say nothing of all the French tennis players that have let me down with their lack of backbone). But wonderful writeup nonetheless, and I'd be with you if only it wasn't France against Germany, once again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Germany / France - France to advance +125 (3 units) - Should be a great game.  Im pretty sure that my nemesis Olivier Giroud (not from the WC, but this guy screws me continuously when I bet on or against Arsenal) will not see any more time for the French.  When he is out there, the French have had no punch offensively - except against Switzerland when everyone had punch offensively.  Greizman and Valbuena make a much better pairing for Benzema - and I am prettty confident that is what we will see from here on out.

     

    The French were so lucky to win against Nigeria, and so lucky to win me my wager.  Matuidi should have had a red card at about the 60 minute mark, but instead of red, he got yellow and took out Nigerias best player to that point in the game.  Its amazing what that one call meant to the game.  But at that same point is when Giroud came out - and Valbuena and Griezman pushed up - and it was all France from that point forward.  Germany is weak on the Howedes side, and I still say that Lahm and Mertesacker are also vulnerable for different reasons.  Mertesacker because he is painfully immobile, while Lahm because he loses the ball in possession way too much.  The Algerians almost fully exposed this with their excellent counter attack - but just didnt have the talent in the end to finish.  But France does - and the key to this game will be if the French can turn the ball over and quickly exploit the Germany defense.

     

    I also think the German attack seems stiffled when defenses clog the middle.  Both Algeria and the US used this tactic almost to perfection, and I cant see the French doing anything different.  The vulnerability for the French is the space in behind Evra when he pushes up - because Benzema wont play defense ever - and there could be lots of space if Germany gets in behind Evra's side.  But the Germans just seem to refuse to play like this - opting for wanting to string 20 passes together and then pass it in to the net.

     

    Its do or die time for this talented French side.  This is the test.  The Germans are cominng off of an OT game which they were fully tested, and there has been rumors of a team-wide virus in the German camp  - and I will choose to believe it because I want to - and will take any advantage I can get.  Predicted final score France 1 Germany 0

     


    Oh Vanz, you're breaking my heart. As a boy I recall watching Germany and France in 1982 and rooting for Germany, with their fearless goalkeeper, Schumacher. On that day they kept a young boys dream alive by coming back from 0-2 in OT to beat the French on penalty kicks (only to be done in by the pesky Italians in the final). On that day, I also learned to never count the Germans out. If any team can overcome fatigue, sickness, etc and win a game on this stage, it is the Germans. I think you are picking the correct side but I just can't bet on the French. Not only because I'll be rooting for Germany and their great team spirit but also because I just can't trust the French. I'm very grateful for their win against Nigeria and they certainly have the upper hand here and should be (IMO) favorites (or at least even) but after seeing them wilt in 82 and again against Italy when Zidane imploded I just don't trust them (and that's to say nothing of all the French tennis players that have let me down with their lack of backbone). But wonderful writeup nonetheless, and I'd be with you if only it wasn't France against Germany, once again.
     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:21 PM ET #208

    Vanz...I think you have Messi messed up with Di Maria.

    Di Maria is playing like he is Argentina. He is just so full of himself when he plays that it's almost infuriating to watch, but mostly he does one wonderful thing per game. And he did it because of Messi. Without Messi where would Argentina be?

    This anti Messi stuff really infuriates me. I see this anti Messi stuff outside of spanish and latin football time and time again and they just don't get it. It reinforces why England and the USA can't match it with these guys nor do they know why they are so great or why they have a crappy youth development scheme.

    Watch how latinos develop their players. And I don't mean in camps etc. Go to the streets and see them dance and play as young innocents. A good dose of time on the streets of Colombia, Brazil or Argentina could help an English youth program manager enormously. Ever heard of Futsal? Understand and study the background, and may be with even with one quarter of your brain how a man so young can win a 4th world's best player award.

    Messi could finish tomorrow and you and I will never see his likes again. The greatest player in history by some astonishing margin.


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    Vanz...I think you have Messi messed up with Di Maria.

    Di Maria is playing like he is Argentina. He is just so full of himself when he plays that it's almost infuriating to watch, but mostly he does one wonderful thing per game. And he did it because of Messi. Without Messi where would Argentina be?

    This anti Messi stuff really infuriates me. I see this anti Messi stuff outside of spanish and latin football time and time again and they just don't get it. It reinforces why England and the USA can't match it with these guys nor do they know why they are so great or why they have a crappy youth development scheme.

    Watch how latinos develop their players. And I don't mean in camps etc. Go to the streets and see them dance and play as young innocents. A good dose of time on the streets of Colombia, Brazil or Argentina could help an English youth program manager enormously. Ever heard of Futsal? Understand and study the background, and may be with even with one quarter of your brain how a man so young can win a 4th world's best player award.

    Messi could finish tomorrow and you and I will never see his likes again. The greatest player in history by some astonishing margin.


     
    arkadymo
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:24 PM ET #209

    He's not hating on Messi whatsoever. He's stating that in order to stop Argentina you ONLY need to stop him because they are one dimensional. Very different.

    The struggle for a coach is incorporating such a talent into a team setting. Too much reliance is bad but not enough is a waste of his talents.
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    He's not hating on Messi whatsoever. He's stating that in order to stop Argentina you ONLY need to stop him because they are one dimensional. Very different.

    The struggle for a coach is incorporating such a talent into a team setting. Too much reliance is bad but not enough is a waste of his talents.
     
    barneybeans
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:25 PM ET #210

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    It would so drastically change ...It is really impossible to even consider eliminating the offside rule...

    Or tweak it. I couldn't agree more. It's actually a very good rule that if it were to go, futbol would almost turn into rugby, hahahaha, just kidding, sort of.

    Diving is the cancer of the sport and everyone knows it. Leaving extra time secret and up to the refs matters little, to me...

    I am on Colombia and so are the squares but hey, the squares win too.

    I love both plays Van - first time I am saying that...

    I just don't know if I buy the whole "Scolari provided psychologists for the team after the penalty shootout vs Chile becase they were all so distraught" or "Neymar is doubtful and his knee is hurting".

    Is Brazil playing possum? Are the refs or FIFA putting a lean on Brazil? The Chile game tells me no.

    I got back from Brazil this morning and everyone from Bogota is already here. Rolos please learn how to celebrate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    It would so drastically change ...It is really impossible to even consider eliminating the offside rule...

    Or tweak it. I couldn't agree more. It's actually a very good rule that if it were to go, futbol would almost turn into rugby, hahahaha, just kidding, sort of.

    Diving is the cancer of the sport and everyone knows it. Leaving extra time secret and up to the refs matters little, to me...

    I am on Colombia and so are the squares but hey, the squares win too.

    I love both plays Van - first time I am saying that...

    I just don't know if I buy the whole "Scolari provided psychologists for the team after the penalty shootout vs Chile becase they were all so distraught" or "Neymar is doubtful and his knee is hurting".

    Is Brazil playing possum? Are the refs or FIFA putting a lean on Brazil? The Chile game tells me no.

    I got back from Brazil this morning and everyone from Bogota is already here. Rolos please learn how to celebrate.


    Vamanos chicos!

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:27 PM ET #211

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnersrealm:

    Vanz...I think you have Messi messed up with Di Maria.

    Di Maria is playing like he is Argentina. He is just so full of himself when he plays that it's almost infuriating to watch, but mostly he does one wonderful thing per game. And he did it because of Messi. Without Messi where would Argentina be?

    This anti Messi stuff really infuriates me. I see this anti Messi stuff outside of spanish and latin football time and time again and they just don't get it. It reinforces why England and the USA can't match it with these guys nor do they know why they are so great or why they have a crappy youth development scheme.

    Watch how latinos develop their players. And I don't mean in camps etc. Go to the streets and see them dance and play as young innocents. A good dose of time on the streets of Colombia, Brazil or Argentina could help an English youth program manager enormously. Ever heard of Futsal? Understand and study the background, and may be with even with one quarter of your brain how a man so young can win a 4th world's best player award.

    Messi could finish tomorrow and you and I will never see his likes again. The greatest player in history by some astonishing margin.


    I think you totally misinterpreted my writeup.

    There was nowhere in it where I said anything disparaging about Messi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnersrealm:

    Vanz...I think you have Messi messed up with Di Maria.

    Di Maria is playing like he is Argentina. He is just so full of himself when he plays that it's almost infuriating to watch, but mostly he does one wonderful thing per game. And he did it because of Messi. Without Messi where would Argentina be?

    This anti Messi stuff really infuriates me. I see this anti Messi stuff outside of spanish and latin football time and time again and they just don't get it. It reinforces why England and the USA can't match it with these guys nor do they know why they are so great or why they have a crappy youth development scheme.

    Watch how latinos develop their players. And I don't mean in camps etc. Go to the streets and see them dance and play as young innocents. A good dose of time on the streets of Colombia, Brazil or Argentina could help an English youth program manager enormously. Ever heard of Futsal? Understand and study the background, and may be with even with one quarter of your brain how a man so young can win a 4th world's best player award.

    Messi could finish tomorrow and you and I will never see his likes again. The greatest player in history by some astonishing margin.


    I think you totally misinterpreted my writeup.

    There was nowhere in it where I said anything disparaging about Messi.

     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:31 PM ET #212

    Quote Originally Posted by arkadymo:

    He's not hating on Messi whatsoever. He's stating that in order to stop Argentina you ONLY need to stop him because they are one dimensional. Very different.

    The struggle for a coach is incorporating such a talent into a team setting. Too much reliance is bad but not enough is a waste of his talents.


    He stated to take Messi out. They took Messi out early in a pre knockout game and nearly lost. Let's take Maradona out for the England match in 96. To even suggest such a thing is crazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkadymo:

    He's not hating on Messi whatsoever. He's stating that in order to stop Argentina you ONLY need to stop him because they are one dimensional. Very different.

    The struggle for a coach is incorporating such a talent into a team setting. Too much reliance is bad but not enough is a waste of his talents.


    He stated to take Messi out. They took Messi out early in a pre knockout game and nearly lost. Let's take Maradona out for the England match in 96. To even suggest such a thing is crazy.
     
    vegasrebel417
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:32 PM ET #213

    I could sit here and point out numerous things I'd change with every sport but to act like soccer is above evolution because of tradition seems absurd to me. Every sport should strive to keep the integrity of the game at the forefront. You don't want to change offsides I agree, but do something about the flops and time wasting. 

    People bang on dumb rules all the time I mean for the first time in my lifetime I will see college football have a playoff.

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    I could sit here and point out numerous things I'd change with every sport but to act like soccer is above evolution because of tradition seems absurd to me. Every sport should strive to keep the integrity of the game at the forefront. You don't want to change offsides I agree, but do something about the flops and time wasting. 

    People bang on dumb rules all the time I mean for the first time in my lifetime I will see college football have a playoff.

     
    barneybeans
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:35 PM ET #214

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnersrealm:

    ...Without Messi where would Argentina be?

    This anti Messi stuff really infuriates me. I see this anti Messi stuff outside of spanish and latin football time and time again and they just don't get it.
    Maybe I am in the wrong thread but I have not seen any anti Messi stuff here. The problem is whenever anyone talks about a team, any team, and says, "Oh, team X, they have player Y", "Oh, Argentina, they have Messi".

    This usually means the team is crap and lacks cohesion and that their one player Y is everything. That in itself does not win championships, which is why Argentina has zilch since 2006 with Messi.

    No one is hating on Messi, they/we all are hating an a one dimensional Argentina that has nothing BUT Messi.

    Not totally impressed with the 3 favs: Spain, Argentina nor Brazil since before the tourney. Lately they all don't play well as a team having only disjointed pockets of talent. That gets some impressive wins here and there and spots on the "plays of the week" segment but does not win championships.

    Just my two centavos...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnersrealm:

    ...Without Messi where would Argentina be?

    This anti Messi stuff really infuriates me. I see this anti Messi stuff outside of spanish and latin football time and time again and they just don't get it.
    Maybe I am in the wrong thread but I have not seen any anti Messi stuff here. The problem is whenever anyone talks about a team, any team, and says, "Oh, team X, they have player Y", "Oh, Argentina, they have Messi".

    This usually means the team is crap and lacks cohesion and that their one player Y is everything. That in itself does not win championships, which is why Argentina has zilch since 2006 with Messi.

    No one is hating on Messi, they/we all are hating an a one dimensional Argentina that has nothing BUT Messi.

    Not totally impressed with the 3 favs: Spain, Argentina nor Brazil since before the tourney. Lately they all don't play well as a team having only disjointed pockets of talent. That gets some impressive wins here and there and spots on the "plays of the week" segment but does not win championships.

    Just my two centavos...
     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:37 PM ET #215

    Let's bench arguably the greatest player ever to have played and see what happens. That is ludicrous. He has scored how many times and what was his last assist?
    I get your reliance argument, but what has he done wrong. Is it because he is so good that others feel intimidated. not likely. Di Maria has always felt he is God's gift to football like Robben.
    Yeh let's bench Messi who despite winning convincingly nearly singlehandledly all of Argentina's games. Please.....
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    Let's bench arguably the greatest player ever to have played and see what happens. That is ludicrous. He has scored how many times and what was his last assist?
    I get your reliance argument, but what has he done wrong. Is it because he is so good that others feel intimidated. not likely. Di Maria has always felt he is God's gift to football like Robben.
    Yeh let's bench Messi who despite winning convincingly nearly singlehandledly all of Argentina's games. Please.....
     
    Europa
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:38 PM ET #216

    Vanz, i'm on Belgium +1/2 as well. Good luck!  
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    Vanz, i'm on Belgium +1/2 as well. Good luck!  
     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:39 PM ET #217

    Quote Originally Posted by vegasrebel417:

    I could sit here and point out numerous things I'd change with every sport but to act like soccer is above evolution because of tradition seems absurd to me. Every sport should strive to keep the integrity of the game at the forefront. You don't want to change offsides I agree, but do something about the flops and time wasting. 

    People bang on dumb rules all the time I mean for the first time in my lifetime I will see college football have a playoff.

    Yes---offsides rule has been tweaked before---I think as recently as 1990? to aid offense.  Sports continue to evolve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegasrebel417:

    I could sit here and point out numerous things I'd change with every sport but to act like soccer is above evolution because of tradition seems absurd to me. Every sport should strive to keep the integrity of the game at the forefront. You don't want to change offsides I agree, but do something about the flops and time wasting. 

    People bang on dumb rules all the time I mean for the first time in my lifetime I will see college football have a playoff.

    Yes---offsides rule has been tweaked before---I think as recently as 1990? to aid offense.  Sports continue to evolve.

     
    arkadymo
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:40 PM ET #218

    That's the point. You bench Messi so the other players stop relying on him so much and step up their game. Then you incorporate him back into the lineup and you should have a more effective unit as a whole.
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    That's the point. You bench Messi so the other players stop relying on him so much and step up their game. Then you incorporate him back into the lineup and you should have a more effective unit as a whole.
     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:45 PM ET #219

    Everyone is looking for a Maradona equivalent because of his legend, but are forgetting what will be written in future pages about a much more modest man in Messi. Argentina won't have problems against Belgium. This is when the big guys step up and Belgium I'm afraid don't have them like Argentina does. They will trounce them.
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    Everyone is looking for a Maradona equivalent because of his legend, but are forgetting what will be written in future pages about a much more modest man in Messi. Argentina won't have problems against Belgium. This is when the big guys step up and Belgium I'm afraid don't have them like Argentina does. They will trounce them.
     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:48 PM ET #220

    Quote Originally Posted by arkadymo:

    That's the point. You bench Messi so the other players stop relying on him so much and step up their game. Then you incorporate him back into the lineup and you should have a more effective unit as a whole.


    You and Vanz would make good coaches. USA little league soccer.
    Let's leave our best man out hoping the team will play better and lose two on defence because the team isn't used to playing without their key man and then bring him on hoping for three quick goals. Yes..that's a good idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkadymo:

    That's the point. You bench Messi so the other players stop relying on him so much and step up their game. Then you incorporate him back into the lineup and you should have a more effective unit as a whole.


    You and Vanz would make good coaches. USA little league soccer.
    Let's leave our best man out hoping the team will play better and lose two on defence because the team isn't used to playing without their key man and then bring him on hoping for three quick goals. Yes..that's a good idea.
     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 10:50 PM ET #221

    Lets experiment with Messi at the quarter finals!
    Yes good idea gents.

    Can you believe the amateurs we have here. I  mean really lol
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    Lets experiment with Messi at the quarter finals!
    Yes good idea gents.

    Can you believe the amateurs we have here. I  mean really lol
     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 11:07 PM ET #222

    I love the Messi argument, just love it. I agree with both sides. I see Argentina being passive, underperforming because everyone is looking for Messi to save them. But I also see Messi saving them, time and time again, like a savior a christ figure on the soccer field. Will they beat a beat a great team playing that way? No. Will they beat most other teams? Yes. I recall France riding Zidane and his greatness to the finals, only to lose to Italy. All you need from the great ones is on or two plays and that's usually enough. BTW, I hate DiMaria as well. I blame that guy, and that guy alone, for Argentina not dominating. His passes, his finishes are garbage 99% of the time and I don't care about his OT goal (set up by the brilliance of Messi) that any of us could have made.
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    I love the Messi argument, just love it. I agree with both sides. I see Argentina being passive, underperforming because everyone is looking for Messi to save them. But I also see Messi saving them, time and time again, like a savior a christ figure on the soccer field. Will they beat a beat a great team playing that way? No. Will they beat most other teams? Yes. I recall France riding Zidane and his greatness to the finals, only to lose to Italy. All you need from the great ones is on or two plays and that's usually enough. BTW, I hate DiMaria as well. I blame that guy, and that guy alone, for Argentina not dominating. His passes, his finishes are garbage 99% of the time and I don't care about his OT goal (set up by the brilliance of Messi) that any of us could have made.
     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2014 - 11:27 PM ET #223

    Well I would prefer Di Maria on my team than off it. But he needs a good talking too, because he is just so self centered in his play.

    Can you imagine Argentina with a healthy Aguero at this stage? Nearly unstoppable. Higuain doesa perfect Fred like impersonation, but Higuain is a lot better so far.

    Fred is holding back. I'm sure of it. I think everything about Brazil is a trick including Fred's average performance.

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    Well I would prefer Di Maria on my team than off it. But he needs a good talking too, because he is just so self centered in his play.

    Can you imagine Argentina with a healthy Aguero at this stage? Nearly unstoppable. Higuain doesa perfect Fred like impersonation, but Higuain is a lot better so far.

    Fred is holding back. I'm sure of it. I think everything about Brazil is a trick including Fred's average performance.

     
    Crusher13
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    Posted: Jul. 4, 2014 - 12:31 AM ET #224

    Van, like all your picks this round except for Messi and crew...Argentina wins....BELGIUM youth finally exploited....I like the OVERS much more than final 16 round too..... Gonna be some VERY ENTERTAINING games on this 4th of JULY..

    Good luck..
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    Van, like all your picks this round except for Messi and crew...Argentina wins....BELGIUM youth finally exploited....I like the OVERS much more than final 16 round too..... Gonna be some VERY ENTERTAINING games on this 4th of JULY..

    Good luck..
     
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jul. 4, 2014 - 1:54 AM ET #225

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnersrealm:



    You and Vanz would make good coaches. USA little league soccer.
    Let's leave our best man out hoping the team will play better and lose two on defence because the team isn't used to playing without their key man and then bring him on hoping for three quick goals. Yes..that's a good idea.

    Dude - Im going to assume this is a language difference because ONCE AGAIN - you totally misinterpreted my post.

    I don't suggest they actually leave Messi on the bench.  I wrote "I almost think..." and then made an obviously over the top statement.

    But I get one thing for sure.  You sure like Messi - and you sure are quick to attack. 

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnersrealm:



    You and Vanz would make good coaches. USA little league soccer.
    Let's leave our best man out hoping the team will play better and lose two on defence because the team isn't used to playing without their key man and then bring him on hoping for three quick goals. Yes..that's a good idea.

    Dude - Im going to assume this is a language difference because ONCE AGAIN - you totally misinterpreted my post.

    I don't suggest they actually leave Messi on the bench.  I wrote "I almost think..." and then made an obviously over the top statement.

    But I get one thing for sure.  You sure like Messi - and you sure are quick to attack. 

     

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