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    All Forums | Soccer

    World Cup Knockout Tournament.... Round of 16 and on....

    «First Previous 234 ... 161718 Next Last»
    vanzack
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    Participants:
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    vanzack
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 8:26 PM ET #26

    Quote Originally Posted by lbcake:

    Swiss over Large Tina

    oh my

    Yeah - I feel kind of funny making that prediction - and I guess I wouldn't be the Swiss at even money to advance - but I do think they have a good shot to pull it off.  If they don't, somebody else will....

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    Quote Originally Posted by lbcake:

    Swiss over Large Tina

    oh my

    Yeah - I feel kind of funny making that prediction - and I guess I wouldn't be the Swiss at even money to advance - but I do think they have a good shot to pull it off.  If they don't, somebody else will....

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 8:27 PM ET #27

    Just to get these together and on the same page...

    Brazil / Chile - Brazil -1 in 90 mins -105 (2 units) - Brazil have won, but haven't impressed.  Its not good enough that Brazil wins, they have enormous pressure to win impressively.  Their defense is playing very well giving up only 2 goals in their first 3 games - but the offense has sputtered.  But look closer - have they really?

     

    They dominated their performance against Mexico while not being able to score, and blitzed Cameroon.  Their real struggle was against Croatia scoring 3 very weak goals.  If you look in to some team stats so far, Brail are only 10th out of 32 in shot totals - but first in shots on target by a very long way (70% on target) and first in goals / shots ratio - all of this with the performance of Mexico GK Ochoa.  This opposed to Chile who have produced the 29th out of 32 in the tournament in shots and only slightly better in shots on target.  Chile benefitted from a perfect team for them to play in Spain, which created lots of turnovers in key positions.

     

    Chile play the 3 man defense I mentioned above with 2 wingbacks getting in to wide positions in attack.  I just feel that the Brazil defense is more than capable of handling the wide attack and forcing Chile to attack up the center - which doesn't suit them.  Chile will also keep up with the high press - which for example worked to perfection against a slow Spanish side and created turnovers and chances - but I don't see it working against Brazil.  And when it doesn't work - you see what happens like in the Netherlands / Chile game - if their opposition can get it out of the back with one or two exit passes you have man advantages on the counterattack.  Brazil should exploit this - and this is the key to the game.

     

    Brazil have the skill and speed to make the connections between the back 4 and the attack quickly to beat the press - and create lots of scoring chances which they have already proven to be lethally effective.  I wanted to like Chile here - they clearly have been an easy team to watch and the popular thought is that Brazil is not as good overall as advertised - but this is not the spot.  Predicted final score is a repeat of WC 2010 - Brazil 3 Chile 0.

     

    Colombia / Uruguay - Colombia to win in 90 mins +103 (2 units) - Age and experience vs youth and speed.  That about sums this one up.  Oh - and one other small thing - no Luis Suarez.

     

    Colombia and Uruguay are no strangers splitting their two qualifiers against each other - each winning at home. 

     

    Colombia won their 3 group games impressively - but it has to be said - they were in a relatively easy group - possibly the easiest 3 games of anyone still in the tournament - not so much from talent although that argument can be made - but more that the three sides they faced were very similar tactically and Colombia could play basically the same throughout.  But they did win - and looked good doing it.  Their speed down the flanks is frightening with most of their 9 goals so far coming from wide positions due to speed. 

     

    Uruguay have prospered for much different reasons - being able to stay in close games and taking advantage of finishing at key moments late in games.  I hate to sound cliché like and ESPN reporter - but it has to be said - the loss of Suarez is just huge.  And it isn't speculation - we have clear evidence of this from the difference in their first game against CR without Suarez (they scored only on a PK), and then their games against England and Italy with him.  Its no coincidence.  Uruguay without Suarez is a slow build side - with little surprise in any way that they play - hoping to just outgrind their opposition.  The defense is limited and immobile.  Look at their first 3 games defensively - CR picked them apart in the air and ground, England should have scored more only missing wide open chances, and Italy is just the same type of team as Uruguay which greatly benefitted them - along with Italy playing for basically a draw.  I fear for this defense against Colombia.

     

    Uruguay are close to the bottom of the pack in shots on goal - even with Suarez - with only 10 in 3 games - amazingly scoring on 4 of the 10.  But this has to be considered problematic - considering Suarez accounted for most of them.

     

    I am aware that this is somewhat of a "square" or popular play.  It is the obvious side.  I get that.  But the narrative is there for me to support it.  I just don't see Uruguay having the guns or the stamina (lets not forget this is the 4th game in 2 weeks in extreme conditions).  Predicted final score Colombia 2 Uruguay 0

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    Just to get these together and on the same page...

    Brazil / Chile - Brazil -1 in 90 mins -105 (2 units) - Brazil have won, but haven't impressed.  Its not good enough that Brazil wins, they have enormous pressure to win impressively.  Their defense is playing very well giving up only 2 goals in their first 3 games - but the offense has sputtered.  But look closer - have they really?

     

    They dominated their performance against Mexico while not being able to score, and blitzed Cameroon.  Their real struggle was against Croatia scoring 3 very weak goals.  If you look in to some team stats so far, Brail are only 10th out of 32 in shot totals - but first in shots on target by a very long way (70% on target) and first in goals / shots ratio - all of this with the performance of Mexico GK Ochoa.  This opposed to Chile who have produced the 29th out of 32 in the tournament in shots and only slightly better in shots on target.  Chile benefitted from a perfect team for them to play in Spain, which created lots of turnovers in key positions.

     

    Chile play the 3 man defense I mentioned above with 2 wingbacks getting in to wide positions in attack.  I just feel that the Brazil defense is more than capable of handling the wide attack and forcing Chile to attack up the center - which doesn't suit them.  Chile will also keep up with the high press - which for example worked to perfection against a slow Spanish side and created turnovers and chances - but I don't see it working against Brazil.  And when it doesn't work - you see what happens like in the Netherlands / Chile game - if their opposition can get it out of the back with one or two exit passes you have man advantages on the counterattack.  Brazil should exploit this - and this is the key to the game.

     

    Brazil have the skill and speed to make the connections between the back 4 and the attack quickly to beat the press - and create lots of scoring chances which they have already proven to be lethally effective.  I wanted to like Chile here - they clearly have been an easy team to watch and the popular thought is that Brazil is not as good overall as advertised - but this is not the spot.  Predicted final score is a repeat of WC 2010 - Brazil 3 Chile 0.

     

    Colombia / Uruguay - Colombia to win in 90 mins +103 (2 units) - Age and experience vs youth and speed.  That about sums this one up.  Oh - and one other small thing - no Luis Suarez.

     

    Colombia and Uruguay are no strangers splitting their two qualifiers against each other - each winning at home. 

     

    Colombia won their 3 group games impressively - but it has to be said - they were in a relatively easy group - possibly the easiest 3 games of anyone still in the tournament - not so much from talent although that argument can be made - but more that the three sides they faced were very similar tactically and Colombia could play basically the same throughout.  But they did win - and looked good doing it.  Their speed down the flanks is frightening with most of their 9 goals so far coming from wide positions due to speed. 

     

    Uruguay have prospered for much different reasons - being able to stay in close games and taking advantage of finishing at key moments late in games.  I hate to sound cliché like and ESPN reporter - but it has to be said - the loss of Suarez is just huge.  And it isn't speculation - we have clear evidence of this from the difference in their first game against CR without Suarez (they scored only on a PK), and then their games against England and Italy with him.  Its no coincidence.  Uruguay without Suarez is a slow build side - with little surprise in any way that they play - hoping to just outgrind their opposition.  The defense is limited and immobile.  Look at their first 3 games defensively - CR picked them apart in the air and ground, England should have scored more only missing wide open chances, and Italy is just the same type of team as Uruguay which greatly benefitted them - along with Italy playing for basically a draw.  I fear for this defense against Colombia.

     

    Uruguay are close to the bottom of the pack in shots on goal - even with Suarez - with only 10 in 3 games - amazingly scoring on 4 of the 10.  But this has to be considered problematic - considering Suarez accounted for most of them.

     

    I am aware that this is somewhat of a "square" or popular play.  It is the obvious side.  I get that.  But the narrative is there for me to support it.  I just don't see Uruguay having the guns or the stamina (lets not forget this is the 4th game in 2 weeks in extreme conditions).  Predicted final score Colombia 2 Uruguay 0

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 8:28 PM ET #28

    Mexico / Netherlands - Mexico PK and +.5 +102 (1 unit), Mexico to advance +160 (1.5 units) - I said this at the beginning of the tournament in my preview:  "I don’t really see how Mexico just suddenly flips a switch from their horrendous qualifying campaign."  It is clear now that that was misguided.

    Mexico's success can be largely attributed - once again - to their 3 man defense with speedy wing play.  It is concerning that they only scored 4 goals - although they probably had 2 in the Cameroon game that should have counted.  But they didn't score against Croatia until late when Croatia was in attack at all costs mode, but eventually got 3 goals. 

    This is going to be an extremely interesting tactical matchup as Louis Van Gaal has proven to be the tournaments chameleon - and to great success - altering his tactics drastically in every game and changing personnel to match the style.  We might see both sides take the 3 man defense approach - which will be decided down the flanks - but I think the Netherlands will come out with a high line with 4 in the back and challenge Mexico to get in behind them - like they played against Spain.

    The Netherlands weakness is clearly on defense - and although they swept their group play - you can point to the Australia game to show just how much trouble the Dutch had defending outside in attacks.  If the Mexicans can get space and speed down the wings - which I believe they will - they should have lots of success against a Dutch defense that struggles against this exact type of play.  On the opposite side of the pitch - RVP is back and so is Robben - and they have proven to be very dangerous - but the key to stopping them is playing a little bit more compact and central on defense and not allowing the 50 yard runs that they have been able to make on defenses allowing them space by playing high lines.  I assume Mexico will know this - and will be well scouted on not allowing the Robben cut ins or RVP to have space inside the box.  Let the other guys beat you - and let the Dutch beat you by either crosses - but do not let them get in behind you.

    I see this as a very even match, and possibly extra time and PK's.  Just think the Dutch are getting too much love in the betting line based on their 3 impressive wins....  Predicted final score 1-1 in 90, Mexico advance in ET or PK's.

     

    Greece / Costa Rica - Greece PK +116 (.5 unit) and Greece to advance +110 (.5 unit) - What can you say about this one?  It is definitely the stinker of the round of 16, and should be a very tight low scoring game decided by one or two events.  There is not a big tactical battle in this one - it is going to be defense first and counterattack second for both.

    This is a line play for me on a coinflip type of game.  CR has a speed advantage up front but Greece have the experience at sitting back and counterattacking - so if CR get too adventurous they could easily get punished.  Just cant see this being anything but a 1 goal game.  There are better wagers ahead....  Predicted final score Greece 1 CR 0

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    Mexico / Netherlands - Mexico PK and +.5 +102 (1 unit), Mexico to advance +160 (1.5 units) - I said this at the beginning of the tournament in my preview:  "I don’t really see how Mexico just suddenly flips a switch from their horrendous qualifying campaign."  It is clear now that that was misguided.

    Mexico's success can be largely attributed - once again - to their 3 man defense with speedy wing play.  It is concerning that they only scored 4 goals - although they probably had 2 in the Cameroon game that should have counted.  But they didn't score against Croatia until late when Croatia was in attack at all costs mode, but eventually got 3 goals. 

    This is going to be an extremely interesting tactical matchup as Louis Van Gaal has proven to be the tournaments chameleon - and to great success - altering his tactics drastically in every game and changing personnel to match the style.  We might see both sides take the 3 man defense approach - which will be decided down the flanks - but I think the Netherlands will come out with a high line with 4 in the back and challenge Mexico to get in behind them - like they played against Spain.

    The Netherlands weakness is clearly on defense - and although they swept their group play - you can point to the Australia game to show just how much trouble the Dutch had defending outside in attacks.  If the Mexicans can get space and speed down the wings - which I believe they will - they should have lots of success against a Dutch defense that struggles against this exact type of play.  On the opposite side of the pitch - RVP is back and so is Robben - and they have proven to be very dangerous - but the key to stopping them is playing a little bit more compact and central on defense and not allowing the 50 yard runs that they have been able to make on defenses allowing them space by playing high lines.  I assume Mexico will know this - and will be well scouted on not allowing the Robben cut ins or RVP to have space inside the box.  Let the other guys beat you - and let the Dutch beat you by either crosses - but do not let them get in behind you.

    I see this as a very even match, and possibly extra time and PK's.  Just think the Dutch are getting too much love in the betting line based on their 3 impressive wins....  Predicted final score 1-1 in 90, Mexico advance in ET or PK's.

     

    Greece / Costa Rica - Greece PK +116 (.5 unit) and Greece to advance +110 (.5 unit) - What can you say about this one?  It is definitely the stinker of the round of 16, and should be a very tight low scoring game decided by one or two events.  There is not a big tactical battle in this one - it is going to be defense first and counterattack second for both.

    This is a line play for me on a coinflip type of game.  CR has a speed advantage up front but Greece have the experience at sitting back and counterattacking - so if CR get too adventurous they could easily get punished.  Just cant see this being anything but a 1 goal game.  There are better wagers ahead....  Predicted final score Greece 1 CR 0

     
    LVTruck
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 8:41 PM ET #29

    VAN
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    VAN
     
    daysbtwin
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 9:44 PM ET #30

    Here's to an entertaining and profitable knockout round 

    Thanks for taking the time to post these write-ups 
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    Here's to an entertaining and profitable knockout round 

    Thanks for taking the time to post these write-ups 
     
    Barnstorm
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 10:25 PM ET #31

    My book has Mexico:

    +0 +157
    +.05 -132
    ML +261
    Draw +247

    Obviously the Draw wager is for 90 minutes plus added injury time.

    What about the others? All 90 minute plus injury time wagers? 

    ML only wins if Mexico wins in 90 minutes plus injury time?

    +0 is a push if it's tied after 90 minutes plus injury time, and even if they lose in ET?

    +.5 is a win if tied after 90 minutes plus injury time, and even if they lose in ET?


    Thanks!

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    My book has Mexico:

    +0 +157
    +.05 -132
    ML +261
    Draw +247

    Obviously the Draw wager is for 90 minutes plus added injury time.

    What about the others? All 90 minute plus injury time wagers? 

    ML only wins if Mexico wins in 90 minutes plus injury time?

    +0 is a push if it's tied after 90 minutes plus injury time, and even if they lose in ET?

    +.5 is a win if tied after 90 minutes plus injury time, and even if they lose in ET?


    Thanks!

     
    bk1374
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 10:38 PM ET #32

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnstorm:

    My book has Mexico:

    +0 +157
    +.05 -132
    ML +261
    Draw +247

    Obviously the Draw wager is for 90 minutes plus added injury time.

    What about the others? All 90 minute plus injury time wagers? 

    ML only wins if Mexico wins in 90 minutes plus injury time?

    +0 is a push if it's tied after 90 minutes plus injury time, and even if they lose in ET?

    +.5 is a win if tied after 90 minutes plus injury time, and even if they lose in ET?


    Thanks!


    All of those are for 90 minute regulation only (plus normal injury time).  The Mexico +0 would push on a draw, even if they lose in ET or PK's, yes. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnstorm:

    My book has Mexico:

    +0 +157
    +.05 -132
    ML +261
    Draw +247

    Obviously the Draw wager is for 90 minutes plus added injury time.

    What about the others? All 90 minute plus injury time wagers? 

    ML only wins if Mexico wins in 90 minutes plus injury time?

    +0 is a push if it's tied after 90 minutes plus injury time, and even if they lose in ET?

    +.5 is a win if tied after 90 minutes plus injury time, and even if they lose in ET?


    Thanks!


    All of those are for 90 minute regulation only (plus normal injury time).  The Mexico +0 would push on a draw, even if they lose in ET or PK's, yes. 
     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 11:17 PM ET #33

    Van, good stuff as always and your insight is appreciated.  You seem to be hitting your stride with better results of late.

    I had MEX to advance and want to pull the trigger here, but I think they will have a tough time with the Dutch.  Aside from the Germans,  I don't think they could not have drawn a worse opponent .  The Dutch like to play physical, and their size could present issues.  I paid attention to friendlies  before the WC, and their last loss was to Bosnia.   Solid, physical opponents do not seem to suit this MEX team  well.   MEX is .. and always has been an undersized squad.

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    Van, good stuff as always and your insight is appreciated.  You seem to be hitting your stride with better results of late.

    I had MEX to advance and want to pull the trigger here, but I think they will have a tough time with the Dutch.  Aside from the Germans,  I don't think they could not have drawn a worse opponent .  The Dutch like to play physical, and their size could present issues.  I paid attention to friendlies  before the WC, and their last loss was to Bosnia.   Solid, physical opponents do not seem to suit this MEX team  well.   MEX is .. and always has been an undersized squad.

     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 11:24 PM ET #34

    Nice write ups. Very good read.
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    Nice write ups. Very good read.
     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 11:25 PM ET #35

    I know Van has Belgium to advance past U.S, but I like the value here on this U.S. squad.  Belgium a young squad did not seem to impress in one of the weaker Groups in the tournament.  U.S. has played 3 solid squads well, and I think this preparation can only help them onto the KO round.  I think JK has one more in him to get this crew past the round of 16.
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    I know Van has Belgium to advance past U.S, but I like the value here on this U.S. squad.  Belgium a young squad did not seem to impress in one of the weaker Groups in the tournament.  U.S. has played 3 solid squads well, and I think this preparation can only help them onto the KO round.  I think JK has one more in him to get this crew past the round of 16.
     
    Zacreth
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    Posted: Jun. 27, 2014 - 11:54 PM ET #36

    If you had to pick a winner between CR or Mex which would you pick?
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    If you had to pick a winner between CR or Mex which would you pick?
     
    Learnersrealm
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 12:05 AM ET #37

    I also think the US has quite the chance against Belgium. Infact it is US ML for me.
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    I also think the US has quite the chance against Belgium. Infact it is US ML for me.
     
    3825
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 1:00 AM ET #38

    thanks much for all the effort . . . as someone wrote earlier . . . I am making much more informed wagers with your insight.

    I'm taking a stab at Mexico reaching the final at +1150, the pricing appears to assume that Mexico will face Argentina in a semi (should el tri get that far) , and I agree with your logic that Tina stands a decent chance of not even making it to the semi.  Also, taking the Swiss at +975 to reach the semi-final . . . i just don't think the prices within that quarter reflect each teams chances of making the semi.

    thanks again, glad i followed your lead and bought France at the low, low, low price of +2150.
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    thanks much for all the effort . . . as someone wrote earlier . . . I am making much more informed wagers with your insight.

    I'm taking a stab at Mexico reaching the final at +1150, the pricing appears to assume that Mexico will face Argentina in a semi (should el tri get that far) , and I agree with your logic that Tina stands a decent chance of not even making it to the semi.  Also, taking the Swiss at +975 to reach the semi-final . . . i just don't think the prices within that quarter reflect each teams chances of making the semi.

    thanks again, glad i followed your lead and bought France at the low, low, low price of +2150.
     
    Shark_Attack
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 3:22 AM ET #39

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Switzerland over Argentina (very close game, but winner in semi)


    Value is too good to pass up! This is a coin flip, from what I've seen... 

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Switzerland over Argentina (very close game, but winner in semi)


    Value is too good to pass up! This is a coin flip, from what I've seen... 

     
    begginerboy
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 3:48 AM ET #40

    Vanz,

    Thank you for the write-ups. They give us clear rationals explaining why we should back a side which we can then agree or disagree with. Like Rush 51 I'm very skeptical of the Mexico and Belgium pick as well as Switzerland. You began the tournament undervaluing Mexico and now you are (IMO) overvaluing them. The time to back Mexico was in the group stage. This team has overachieved and now it's time for them to return to earth. Against Brazil they rode the fortunes of their hot goalie. And against Croatia they ran into a team that ran out of gas and finally caved after they got scored on. With the way their coach and team was celebrating you could tell that they had already achieved their goal. Getting into the round of 16 was their world cup victory! Now they run into a team in the Dutch that came into the WC with an opportunity to take revenge (against Spain), which they did, in glorious fashion, and then had to play the Australias of the world, and had a let down as expected (though they still won). Now, after getting revenge and getting through the group stage, the Dutch can focus on the task at hand. If any Northern European team can beat a strong team from the Americas, away from home, it is the Dutch (who have the kind of flair, worldliness and wherewithal needed to win in a game on foreign soil) not a vanilla Switzerland team that is likely to wilt and melt away under the heat and pressure.

    Argentina will not lose to Switzerland despite all their flaws. In each game they played down to the level of their opponent and still won (they were toying with Nigeria, knowing they could get a goal at any time). Now the real tournament begins and they are not only playing at "home" (or in front of a home crowd at least) but they have one of the best (if not the best) soccer player in the world on their team: a guy who can affect the game in so many ways that it's as if his team is playing with an extra man.    

    As for the Americans, they were as tired as Croatia was against Mexico after playing in the "amazon jungle." They looked listless against Germany. I expect a much better effort against Belgium who will likely be looking past the Americans after beating them handily in their previous meeting. This is a great spot for team USA, they relish the role of underdog (as they did against Portugal). Against Ghana (where they were not an underdog and had to get a win) they played a nervy/passive and still got scores whenever they needed them. I think they will be more aggressive against a Belgium side they would love to get revenge on. 

    I've tried to respond to your cap of these games with some psychological angles that I think you are taking for granted (or overlooking) but which are (IMO) important; almost as important as the X's and O's that you explain so expertly. I hope this adds to the conversation. 

    Thanks again for all your work.
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    Vanz,

    Thank you for the write-ups. They give us clear rationals explaining why we should back a side which we can then agree or disagree with. Like Rush 51 I'm very skeptical of the Mexico and Belgium pick as well as Switzerland. You began the tournament undervaluing Mexico and now you are (IMO) overvaluing them. The time to back Mexico was in the group stage. This team has overachieved and now it's time for them to return to earth. Against Brazil they rode the fortunes of their hot goalie. And against Croatia they ran into a team that ran out of gas and finally caved after they got scored on. With the way their coach and team was celebrating you could tell that they had already achieved their goal. Getting into the round of 16 was their world cup victory! Now they run into a team in the Dutch that came into the WC with an opportunity to take revenge (against Spain), which they did, in glorious fashion, and then had to play the Australias of the world, and had a let down as expected (though they still won). Now, after getting revenge and getting through the group stage, the Dutch can focus on the task at hand. If any Northern European team can beat a strong team from the Americas, away from home, it is the Dutch (who have the kind of flair, worldliness and wherewithal needed to win in a game on foreign soil) not a vanilla Switzerland team that is likely to wilt and melt away under the heat and pressure.

    Argentina will not lose to Switzerland despite all their flaws. In each game they played down to the level of their opponent and still won (they were toying with Nigeria, knowing they could get a goal at any time). Now the real tournament begins and they are not only playing at "home" (or in front of a home crowd at least) but they have one of the best (if not the best) soccer player in the world on their team: a guy who can affect the game in so many ways that it's as if his team is playing with an extra man.    

    As for the Americans, they were as tired as Croatia was against Mexico after playing in the "amazon jungle." They looked listless against Germany. I expect a much better effort against Belgium who will likely be looking past the Americans after beating them handily in their previous meeting. This is a great spot for team USA, they relish the role of underdog (as they did against Portugal). Against Ghana (where they were not an underdog and had to get a win) they played a nervy/passive and still got scores whenever they needed them. I think they will be more aggressive against a Belgium side they would love to get revenge on. 

    I've tried to respond to your cap of these games with some psychological angles that I think you are taking for granted (or overlooking) but which are (IMO) important; almost as important as the X's and O's that you explain so expertly. I hope this adds to the conversation. 

    Thanks again for all your work.
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 8:11 AM ET #41

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    I know Van has Belgium to advance past U.S, but I like the value here on this U.S. squad.  Belgium a young squad did not seem to impress in one of the weaker Groups in the tournament.  U.S. has played 3 solid squads well, and I think this preparation can only help them onto the KO round.  I think JK has one more in him to get this crew past the round of 16.

    I also think the US has a good shot.  Even though I put that Belgium will likely advance - I think it will be a battle - and I think the US +.5 at even money is a good value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    I know Van has Belgium to advance past U.S, but I like the value here on this U.S. squad.  Belgium a young squad did not seem to impress in one of the weaker Groups in the tournament.  U.S. has played 3 solid squads well, and I think this preparation can only help them onto the KO round.  I think JK has one more in him to get this crew past the round of 16.

    I also think the US has a good shot.  Even though I put that Belgium will likely advance - I think it will be a battle - and I think the US +.5 at even money is a good value.

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 8:18 AM ET #42

    Not that it means too much...  But some prep reading for those who might not know that the US played Belgium a year ago and lost 4-2 with a pretty full squad....

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2013/may/30/usa-belgium-international-friendly

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    Not that it means too much...  But some prep reading for those who might not know that the US played Belgium a year ago and lost 4-2 with a pretty full squad....

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2013/may/30/usa-belgium-international-friendly

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 8:20 AM ET #43

    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    Vanz,

    Thank you for the write-ups. They give us clear rationals explaining why we should back a side which we can then agree or disagree with. Like Rush 51 I'm very skeptical of the Mexico and Belgium pick as well as Switzerland. You began the tournament undervaluing Mexico and now you are (IMO) overvaluing them. The time to back Mexico was in the group stage. This team has overachieved and now it's time for them to return to earth. Against Brazil they rode the fortunes of their hot goalie. And against Croatia they ran into a team that ran out of gas and finally caved after they got scored on. With the way their coach and team was celebrating you could tell that they had already achieved their goal. Getting into the round of 16 was their world cup victory! Now they run into a team in the Dutch that came into the WC with an opportunity to take revenge (against Spain), which they did, in glorious fashion, and then had to play the Australias of the world, and had a let down as expected (though they still won). Now, after getting revenge and getting through the group stage, the Dutch can focus on the task at hand. If any Northern European team can beat a strong team from the Americas, away from home, it is the Dutch (who have the kind of flair, worldliness and wherewithal needed to win in a game on foreign soil) not a vanilla Switzerland team that is likely to wilt and melt away under the heat and pressure.

    Argentina will not lose to Switzerland despite all their flaws. In each game they played down to the level of their opponent and still won (they were toying with Nigeria, knowing they could get a goal at any time). Now the real tournament begins and they are not only playing at "home" (or in front of a home crowd at least) but they have one of the best (if not the best) soccer player in the world on their team: a guy who can affect the game in so many ways that it's as if his team is playing with an extra man.    

    As for the Americans, they were as tired as Croatia was against Mexico after playing in the "amazon jungle." They looked listless against Germany. I expect a much better effort against Belgium who will likely be looking past the Americans after beating them handily in their previous meeting. This is a great spot for team USA, they relish the role of underdog (as they did against Portugal). Against Ghana (where they were not an underdog and had to get a win) they played a nervy/passive and still got scores whenever they needed them. I think they will be more aggressive against a Belgium side they would love to get revenge on. 

    I've tried to respond to your cap of these games with some psychological angles that I think you are taking for granted (or overlooking) but which are (IMO) important; almost as important as the X's and O's that you explain so expertly. I hope this adds to the conversation. 

    Thanks again for all your work.

    Cant really argue with any of that.  Good write up - thanks for contributing....

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by begginerboy:

    Vanz,

    Thank you for the write-ups. They give us clear rationals explaining why we should back a side which we can then agree or disagree with. Like Rush 51 I'm very skeptical of the Mexico and Belgium pick as well as Switzerland. You began the tournament undervaluing Mexico and now you are (IMO) overvaluing them. The time to back Mexico was in the group stage. This team has overachieved and now it's time for them to return to earth. Against Brazil they rode the fortunes of their hot goalie. And against Croatia they ran into a team that ran out of gas and finally caved after they got scored on. With the way their coach and team was celebrating you could tell that they had already achieved their goal. Getting into the round of 16 was their world cup victory! Now they run into a team in the Dutch that came into the WC with an opportunity to take revenge (against Spain), which they did, in glorious fashion, and then had to play the Australias of the world, and had a let down as expected (though they still won). Now, after getting revenge and getting through the group stage, the Dutch can focus on the task at hand. If any Northern European team can beat a strong team from the Americas, away from home, it is the Dutch (who have the kind of flair, worldliness and wherewithal needed to win in a game on foreign soil) not a vanilla Switzerland team that is likely to wilt and melt away under the heat and pressure.

    Argentina will not lose to Switzerland despite all their flaws. In each game they played down to the level of their opponent and still won (they were toying with Nigeria, knowing they could get a goal at any time). Now the real tournament begins and they are not only playing at "home" (or in front of a home crowd at least) but they have one of the best (if not the best) soccer player in the world on their team: a guy who can affect the game in so many ways that it's as if his team is playing with an extra man.    

    As for the Americans, they were as tired as Croatia was against Mexico after playing in the "amazon jungle." They looked listless against Germany. I expect a much better effort against Belgium who will likely be looking past the Americans after beating them handily in their previous meeting. This is a great spot for team USA, they relish the role of underdog (as they did against Portugal). Against Ghana (where they were not an underdog and had to get a win) they played a nervy/passive and still got scores whenever they needed them. I think they will be more aggressive against a Belgium side they would love to get revenge on. 

    I've tried to respond to your cap of these games with some psychological angles that I think you are taking for granted (or overlooking) but which are (IMO) important; almost as important as the X's and O's that you explain so expertly. I hope this adds to the conversation. 

    Thanks again for all your work.

    Cant really argue with any of that.  Good write up - thanks for contributing....

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 8:22 AM ET #44

    Quote Originally Posted by 3825:

    thanks much for all the effort . . . as someone wrote earlier . . . I am making much more informed wagers with your insight.

    I'm taking a stab at Mexico reaching the final at +1150, the pricing appears to assume that Mexico will face Argentina in a semi (should el tri get that far) , and I agree with your logic that Tina stands a decent chance of not even making it to the semi.  Also, taking the Swiss at +975 to reach the semi-final . . . i just don't think the prices within that quarter reflect each teams chances of making the semi.

    thanks again, glad i followed your lead and bought France at the low, low, low price of +2150.

    Blind and winning > informed and losing. 

    But thanks - and I certainly hope France makes a run. 

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3825:

    thanks much for all the effort . . . as someone wrote earlier . . . I am making much more informed wagers with your insight.

    I'm taking a stab at Mexico reaching the final at +1150, the pricing appears to assume that Mexico will face Argentina in a semi (should el tri get that far) , and I agree with your logic that Tina stands a decent chance of not even making it to the semi.  Also, taking the Swiss at +975 to reach the semi-final . . . i just don't think the prices within that quarter reflect each teams chances of making the semi.

    thanks again, glad i followed your lead and bought France at the low, low, low price of +2150.

    Blind and winning > informed and losing. 

    But thanks - and I certainly hope France makes a run. 

     
    Hoyasaxa
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 8:41 AM ET #45

    great stuff all over here and wise guys for sure...Hal Holbrook in the better Wall Street-"quick buck artists come and go with every bull market, it's the steady players who make it through"

    For any of the sisters out there who got pissy at Van so far, hope you still have a penny left for this round so you can give your mom a nickle in 2 weeks...

    I see parallels all the time between sports and stocks...I think Begginerboy is right-Mexico was a great value play and there was a significant reason for them to improve-the new coach instilled great adjustments on and off the field...but like the Chargers in the postseason-this ain't Cincinnati this week...

     I do love the Columbia play-I see controversy destroy focus all the time in other sports...the SF Giants never won until Bonds retired...Uruguay didn't look that great with Suarez...when they get behind today I see anarchy....

    Good Luck Van and thanks for sharing!
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    great stuff all over here and wise guys for sure...Hal Holbrook in the better Wall Street-"quick buck artists come and go with every bull market, it's the steady players who make it through"

    For any of the sisters out there who got pissy at Van so far, hope you still have a penny left for this round so you can give your mom a nickle in 2 weeks...

    I see parallels all the time between sports and stocks...I think Begginerboy is right-Mexico was a great value play and there was a significant reason for them to improve-the new coach instilled great adjustments on and off the field...but like the Chargers in the postseason-this ain't Cincinnati this week...

     I do love the Columbia play-I see controversy destroy focus all the time in other sports...the SF Giants never won until Bonds retired...Uruguay didn't look that great with Suarez...when they get behind today I see anarchy....

    Good Luck Van and thanks for sharing!
     
    llyod23
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 9:10 AM ET #46

    pretty sure that the US also scrimmaged against Belgium when they first got down to Brazil for the World Cup.  Would be interesting if anyone could find any articles about that, although doubtful since it was "closed"
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    pretty sure that the US also scrimmaged against Belgium when they first got down to Brazil for the World Cup.  Would be interesting if anyone could find any articles about that, although doubtful since it was "closed"
     
    alex0
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 9:27 AM ET #47

    i readed your analyse i think you win these
    i also like greece they will kill costarica with their boring game but in the end score and will advance :)
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    i readed your analyse i think you win these
    i also like greece they will kill costarica with their boring game but in the end score and will advance :)
     
    Dirk_Werner41
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 10:45 AM ET #48

    First of all, thanks for your work, vanzack. I read most of your detailed write-ups during group stage and I think your capping is great. The only problem is that this world cup seems to be strange and really hard to figure out. Im watching and playing football my whole life, I have a huge knowledge about football. Im usually quite successful in betting the european leagues. And what happened in this world cup? I almost lost the whole profit i made during the NBA playoffs. This world cup is difficult. It completely surprised me in many many ways. I learned a lot. And theres one rule I will follow the rest of the world cup: Take athleticism, physicality and team spirit over tactics and talent.

    I agree with Beginnerboy in everything he said. Mexico has a shot against the Dutch, but seeing them in the finals is too much. Same with Switzerland. They wont eliminate argentina. Its almost a home match for argentina and considering the way the swiss played, I would put not even one euro on them. They looked flat and were lucky to qualify (should have never won the match against ecuador). The biggest surprise of the tournament is the US team for me. They are so disciplined and strong and have a great team spirit. They will give belgium a hard time and I wouldnt be surprised if they eliminate them.
    I see France or Germany (whoever wins this match) winning against Brazil in the semi final. If Brazil doesnt make it (and im almost sure they dont), I would take Chile/Colombia over France/Germany. Just because of what i explained earlier. Athleticism over talent. Whoever survives on this side of the table will win the world cup. Argentina and the Dutch will probably play the semis. The dark horses could be mexico and the US. But I dont see either of them winning every match until the final. They would need a lot of luck to eliminate three teams in a row. But for one or two the US and mexico are always good.

    Good Luck, vanzack. Appreciate your work 
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    First of all, thanks for your work, vanzack. I read most of your detailed write-ups during group stage and I think your capping is great. The only problem is that this world cup seems to be strange and really hard to figure out. Im watching and playing football my whole life, I have a huge knowledge about football. Im usually quite successful in betting the european leagues. And what happened in this world cup? I almost lost the whole profit i made during the NBA playoffs. This world cup is difficult. It completely surprised me in many many ways. I learned a lot. And theres one rule I will follow the rest of the world cup: Take athleticism, physicality and team spirit over tactics and talent.

    I agree with Beginnerboy in everything he said. Mexico has a shot against the Dutch, but seeing them in the finals is too much. Same with Switzerland. They wont eliminate argentina. Its almost a home match for argentina and considering the way the swiss played, I would put not even one euro on them. They looked flat and were lucky to qualify (should have never won the match against ecuador). The biggest surprise of the tournament is the US team for me. They are so disciplined and strong and have a great team spirit. They will give belgium a hard time and I wouldnt be surprised if they eliminate them.
    I see France or Germany (whoever wins this match) winning against Brazil in the semi final. If Brazil doesnt make it (and im almost sure they dont), I would take Chile/Colombia over France/Germany. Just because of what i explained earlier. Athleticism over talent. Whoever survives on this side of the table will win the world cup. Argentina and the Dutch will probably play the semis. The dark horses could be mexico and the US. But I dont see either of them winning every match until the final. They would need a lot of luck to eliminate three teams in a row. But for one or two the US and mexico are always good.

    Good Luck, vanzack. Appreciate your work 
     
    Hoyasaxa
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 11:00 AM ET #49

    Dirk-

    The one thing most underestimated was "home continent advantage" Is this not relevant most WC's? Didn't the European teams do much better in Germany and France for example? The US in 1994, etc..

    These SA teams had tremendous familiarity, time and climate, fans, etc, etc...I will not forget this in the future except for odd locales like Quatar if they ever play there...
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    Dirk-

    The one thing most underestimated was "home continent advantage" Is this not relevant most WC's? Didn't the European teams do much better in Germany and France for example? The US in 1994, etc..

    These SA teams had tremendous familiarity, time and climate, fans, etc, etc...I will not forget this in the future except for odd locales like Quatar if they ever play there...
     
     
    Dirk_Werner41
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    Posted: Jun. 28, 2014 - 11:14 AM ET #50

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyasaxa:

    Dirk-

    The one thing most underestimated was "home continent advantage" Is this not relevant most WC's? Didn't the European teams do much better in Germany and France for example? The US in 1994, etc..

    These SA teams had tremendous familiarity, time and climate, fans, etc, etc...I will not forget this in the future except for odd locales like Quatar if they ever play there...

    Exactly. Thats a very good point. And my point athleticism and physicality is closely connected to it. Wheter north american, mid american or south american, they all play much better in this world cup. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyasaxa:

    Dirk-

    The one thing most underestimated was "home continent advantage" Is this not relevant most WC's? Didn't the European teams do much better in Germany and France for example? The US in 1994, etc..

    These SA teams had tremendous familiarity, time and climate, fans, etc, etc...I will not forget this in the future except for odd locales like Quatar if they ever play there...

    Exactly. Thats a very good point. And my point athleticism and physicality is closely connected to it. Wheter north american, mid american or south american, they all play much better in this world cup. 
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