Military member families screwed because of Biden's migrant crisis

@wallstreetcappers

 it is a multi TRILLION and multi decade commitment

You continually repeat this, as if it is fact.  This is totally incorrect.  I think 1 Trillion dollars is more than you realize.

To be credible, if you are going to keep repeating this, you will have to provide where you are getting this figure from.

@Raiders22

 Raiders, my use of multi trillion is not inclusive of building the wall it is the decade after decade cost of servicing it, staffing it, executing on keeping it intact and regulated so people are not getting in.

Thanks for that great contribution though, super solid as always. I would actually imagine the long long term cost of this endeavor is a multiple T..

@wallstreetcappers

 I know what it includes -- you keep saying it.

Show where you are getting that figure?

Otherwise your 'contribution' is just political hyperbole.

@Raiders22

 Haha lets just avoid each other ok. You are not interested in conversation, you only reply as a put down and a copy/paste marathon. I am ok that you partisan disagree with me but I am smart enough to know that any source is a silly endeavor because how can you budget or forecast the build, the present value of future cash flows needed to maintain/improve/monitor and patrol it? 

The reality is the TRUE cost of doing things properly to a level of excellence are enormous, not pulling a Trump style chuck something up that looks like crap and does nothing close to execution at a level of high quality. 

How much do you think it would cost to shoddily monitor and patrol the thousands of miles of the border? Are you suggesting that the cost is just the build? I think the build cost is peanuts to the total cost...and then to do it properly to a high level of excellence. I also think if you are going to do ANY wall building it has to be done better than any wall we currently have, it has to be technologically superior to anything we have considered, it has to be monitored and patrolled at a 10X what we are doing now, maybe even higher than 10X. What we do now is nothing it is bare bones skeleton effort, Trump or Biden or Obama or Bush any president we have not funded a proper patrol to staff the need. To validate the build cost, the patrol and monitoring would need to be massive in scale..if not then why do it at all? 

I am not about some slogan or partisan click bait to get a vote or two, I say if it is done right from a build perspective and the proper patrol then the cost will be massive and it will be a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, decade after decade cost. Anything less is a waste of time and will not be effective.

@wallstreetcappers

 I am not replying as a put down.

It is okay to just admit you are wrong or that you exaggerated to make your point.

I know you are partisan and disagree with me about it.  That is why I have not said anything about it before.  I know you are not going to change your mind.  It is a solid politically-driven 'opinion'.

But to get upset and avoid someone when you get asked where you get your information from or what you are using to back it up is not good.

No numbers I have seen indicate a figure anywhere near what you are saying.  You are way off by many a factor, no matter how well-built and well-maintained.

The real question that you guys on the Left can never answer is why you are okay with illegals, period.  You can see the leading indicators of the issues now in Europe.

But my question is why exaggerate the cost just to back up that agenda.  You can easily support the agenda without saying something as outrageous as that.

@wallstreetcappers

 It is not even that I am for a wall.  The majority of this issue can be handled without a wall.

It is just weird that you have a figure that is so astronomical.  That is the only part I was questioning.

It is also a multi decade commitment to dishing out aid or aide, should one prefer, to those who should not be getting it....

Let's face it, you'd have be pretty naive to still think that these migrants come her for a better life or to better themselves....they come here because they can and they know that they will get assistance for whatever their concerns may be...no repercussions just continue to try until it works...great philosophy....

If you are not interested in keeping people out that should not be here then where do you draw the line? Countless welfare handed out to people who aren't who they say they are and there isn't a care in the world even though it is costing taxpayers money. How would you feel if countless people just came over your fence property line and were standing in your yard day after day after day....at what point would you want it to stop...if not today...when????

At least building a wall is a start...lots of other money being spent on welfare for those that are here illegally and milking the system...yes, legal folks are also milking the system but at least we account for who they are as opposed to an illegal who is just here for the free hand out or medical need....since the beginning of time walls have been used to secure ones property and to keep those who they don't want on their property out...I don't see how it's any different in today's world....If not a wall then what? Propose something versus just opposing it...and if you don't think the border is a problem then you've got issues....no wait mail!!!

When legal citizens do not feel secure in their own country then you need to step up...the borders are an American FX Horror Story...GTFOH!!!!

@ABooksNightmare

 I disagree with a lot of this.  The offer of 'free' stuff and welfare is fairly new.  

They have been coming to the USA for a long time for a better life.  People from all over the world do.

I do not know if you have been to the hills of Mexico or some of the Central American villages.  But I have and I cannot blame them at all for trying to leave.  Especially if there are not repercussions for doing it illegally.

I have known a lot of illegals and they are very hard-working and have never taken 'free' stuff once.

BUT that is not the point at all.

A wall is not a good start.  Many, better and easier ways to handle it.

@ABooksNightmare

 The bottom line is that there are many factors to blame on both sides of the aisle, politically.  Then businesses and farmers involvement.  Then there is the natural human sentiment for others.

But there is not resolve at this point to stop it nor is there willpower to do what it would take.

If you run a business you might have a different outlook...

I run a business that primarily focuses on hiring employees for other businesses and I am in California. A lot of perspective comes from ones surrounding. I'm not doubting that they work hard, but they are definitely milking the system. I live in a predominantly hispanic area and it's mostly farm land, so each persons experiences are related to what they see...

We deal with nothing but fake names and people trying to gain employment with rinky dink identification...and the feedback they we obtain from over the years comes form an entirely different place than most....we deal with healthcare and other benefits so I have a fairly good finger on the pulse when I state what I state, but I understand that it is situational....when your workforce is 85-90% hispanic and you employ thousands and thousands of employees I think you get the gist of what is taking place...plus even the legal hispanics that work for us have their own stories related to family....I'm not just shooting from the hip here...about 35 years doing this and you can see what it once was versus what it is now....it's astounding.

My point is the true cost of this endeavor done properly, my figure is on the light side and I really believe that. 

A good example is down here where I live there is a very populated freeway that handles a ton of traffic and it has a high value to the community. When it was built the expense was large and they decided to be conservative with the scope because of the cost. This happens in every metro area and it has happened here with multiple freeways. The build is dictated by the funds committed for the build and the time it takes to finish the project. And of course I am going to say that the current cost at that time was less than expanding the build now and forecasting into the future a MULTIPLE of what would ever be considered as a need...so you keep a conservative scope and cost and end up being unhappy with the result in a short time and new projects at higher costs are needed than say if you had dramatically overbuilt in the first place.

So whatever estimate and forecast you see from an RNC source is going to be short...it will be incomplete, inaccurate, lacking scale of required technology and quality to accomplish the task to a high level of excellence and that will continue to service for years and decades without massive costs to upgrade and repair. The true cost of properly building the wall are higher than anyone can estimate, that is having it done way in excess of any estimate of current need, that you can grow into it and it will last and service to a top level of quality and craftmanship. 

THEN you have to patrol, monitor and service this thing...which we are not doing now at all and that cost is how much? How much is the current, future and indefinite cost of servicing and utilizing this monster to accomplish its true purpose?

Trump had no intention of building a wall and to a level of excellence necessary.  Trump wants to talk about a wall, blast the other side for all the woes of not having a wall, but actually building it the way it should be? Nah he is not interested in that. Nobody is interested in that, so why spend a dime on something that is not going to be done to a level of excellence? Its a stupid partisan dividing talking point...lets just shelve the whole thing and quit pointing fingers at each other.

@Midnight1     and    @fubah2

"we few    we happy few    we band of brothers "

ARMY!!    

@ABooksNightmare

 They are 'miking' the system now because it is encouraged and offered.  Before it was offered they did not.  That is a separate issue -- a lot of people that are citizens 'milk' the system.

Of course, perspective is influenced by surroundings and experience.  But that should not change facts.  You can still sympathize with folks and still say they are wrong. 

It is a copout as well to lay the blame on employers and, at the same, time it is justified to not excuse them.  

If they were not hired, by and large, they would go home and fewer would come in the future.  But that part has to be enforced.  Otherwise there is no disincentive to make sure you are not hiring illegals, etc.

It is for sure a complex issue that is now more complicated because of the additional costs to the country's budget. 

But look at what is being faced now by a lot of European countries.  It has to be taken care of at some point -- and they failed to do so.  There are other unique factors there -- but the overall idea is the same.

@Raiders22

 Maybe I missed but who on the left said they are OK with illegals?

@wallstreetcappers

 I get what you are saying.

But even if you take the I-17 project it has not exceeded by that much and I doubt the I-10 widening will either.  But, yes, you are correct that a lot of projects have cost overruns and exceed budgets and estimates.

BUT NOT by the factor of overruns you are claiming on this. 

I also think the 'wall-advocates' UNDERestimate the 'true' costs -- BUT not by that much.

Your point can be easily made by saying you do not want to spend money on a wall, period.  No need to throw 'multiple-trillions' around.

@Midnight1

Pretty much all are saying it tacitly.  There are plenty that want an 'open-border' policy.

But when you fight the Right on any, and every, possible way to curb it -- that is 'okaying' it enough.

But you can look online and see many advocates for an open-door policy.

@Raiders22

 Last comment on your reply. I am not against a wall. I am against the use of the idea in a partisan vote driven approach. I have never said I am against it, I am saying we are not prepared to fund the build cost to a level of excellence nor the policing of the wall. If we were serious about the border we would put money and people behind what we have now and commit to it. We have never done that under DEM or REPUB, it is not partisan. These schemes are vote driven to enrage the unintelligent and divide the population, to point fingers at a group and motivate the election of a politician.

We have not really maximized the patrol aspect to any degree that tells me we are committed to improve things and the big guy had four years and did absolutely nothing, he has no intention of building a wall.

Raiders...don't you live in California? If so, I can't remember but are you the one that lives in Ventura or am I thinking of someone else?

@Midnight1

 It is very human-like to be sympathetic to folks that have it harder than you do.  It is very hard to juxtapose that with what is best for the country longterm.

So, it is going to be very tricky to get everyone on the same page.  When some want anyone to come in and some want harder restrictions it will not be easily resolved.

@Raiders22

 I am light on my multi T estimate, if you are committing to the deal then you are in for 100 years or longer if not then why even consider it?

The I-17 and 10 are a joke, they service tons of traffic and were under built and are wearing down. The problem is the expansion is impossible because there is no room to expand, the only way you could expand is to double decker the road and how much is that going to cost? The 10 has heavy heavy west cost commerce traffic, so much large scale transport runs through there it is woefully lacking.

@wallstreetcappers

I agree that it cannot be afforded.  But if monies need to be taken from elsewhere -- then that is what needs to be done.  BUT ONLY IF it is decided a wall is needed.

My contention is a wall is NOT needed and the money can be better spent on other ways to curtail the illegal problem.  

Absolutely it is vote-driven.  Because one party cares more about certain issues than the other party does.  

It will never be resolved UNTIL BOTH parties realize it is a problem that needs fixing.

This needs to be done internally, first.  Then the outside part of it will largely take care of itself.

@wallstreetcappers

 For one thing, I do not think PHX expected that sort of growth.  But a lot of cities are having issues with out-growing their infrastructure.

However, I think you are very high on your estimate.  Think of any major project that needs maintaining and ask how long it would take to get to 1T let alone multi-T.

Take the interstate highway system for example.

@wallstreetcappers

 This issue is in a lot of cities in the SE as well.  For a time Charleston was having over 40 people a day moving there.  I saw an article about how they were having to handle it because they cannot build east of course and there is swampland around.  Same thing with a lot of cities in FL.

But I saw at one point PHX was having 150-200 a day move in.  Their big issue at the time was a concern about water and drought.  I do not know if that number has slowed down any.

But the infrastructure costs in these cities is soon to explode I think.

@ABooksNightmare

No sir.  That must be someone else.  Many years ago was based in SoCal.  

Best weather in the country though.