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    Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE)

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    thirdperson
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    thirdperson
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 3:03 AM ET #126

    Department of government efficiency really isn't about improving effectiveness.  It aims to recklessly cut spending to satisfy anti-government ideology.  Sabotaging agencies by firing employees can only make government more dysfunctional.  Comparing countries, US is in the middle range in government expenditure as a percentage of GDP.  US spends relatively less than other rich countries rated higher in quality of government.

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    Department of government efficiency really isn't about improving effectiveness.  It aims to recklessly cut spending to satisfy anti-government ideology.  Sabotaging agencies by firing employees can only make government more dysfunctional.  Comparing countries, US is in the middle range in government expenditure as a percentage of GDP.  US spends relatively less than other rich countries rated higher in quality of government.

     
    User854910
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 9:55 AM ET #127

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    cd329
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 12:54 PM ET #128

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Quote Originally Posted by cd329: Remember when bannon said musk would be gone by jan 20th, lmfaooooo.  That shows you whos now in full control of trump. MUSK cd329 what in the hell does this have to do with the TOPIC ?
    0

    lmfaooooooo i knew a maga would try to side step this.  Well since musk is head of doge, why is the head of doge meeting with foreign leaders?  Its clear you cant grasp 2 + 2 and tried to down play the play how the head of doge is conducting his own personal business in the whitehouse

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Quote Originally Posted by cd329: Remember when bannon said musk would be gone by jan 20th, lmfaooooo.  That shows you whos now in full control of trump. MUSK cd329 what in the hell does this have to do with the TOPIC ?
    0

    lmfaooooooo i knew a maga would try to side step this.  Well since musk is head of doge, why is the head of doge meeting with foreign leaders?  Its clear you cant grasp 2 + 2 and tried to down play the play how the head of doge is conducting his own personal business in the whitehouse

     
    THEMUGG
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 2:49 PM ET #129

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Here's an audit ALL Americans should want Musk and DOGE to do ........... .Elon Musk wants to crack open Fort Knox and audit the gold at lest take a look inside Fort Knox just to make sure the 4,580 tons of US gold is there.... The first tour of the facility came in 1974 when journalists and a Congressional delegation were allowed in following claims the stores had been looted. The vaults were opened again in 2017, during the last Trump administration, for Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin to view them.( viewing is not an audit)....need a hands on audit ..all that glitters is not gold.... Fort Knox is heavily fortified. The US government claims that the precious metal bullion’s structure and content are “known by only a few” and “no one person knows all the procedures to open the vault.” Lets hope there is more in there than Al Capone's' vault that Geraldo Rivera opened...
    That would interesting to say the least.....& a helluva workout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Here's an audit ALL Americans should want Musk and DOGE to do ........... .Elon Musk wants to crack open Fort Knox and audit the gold at lest take a look inside Fort Knox just to make sure the 4,580 tons of US gold is there.... The first tour of the facility came in 1974 when journalists and a Congressional delegation were allowed in following claims the stores had been looted. The vaults were opened again in 2017, during the last Trump administration, for Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin to view them.( viewing is not an audit)....need a hands on audit ..all that glitters is not gold.... Fort Knox is heavily fortified. The US government claims that the precious metal bullion’s structure and content are “known by only a few” and “no one person knows all the procedures to open the vault.” Lets hope there is more in there than Al Capone's' vault that Geraldo Rivera opened...
    That would interesting to say the least.....& a helluva workout.

     
    User854910
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 2:55 PM ET #130

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    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 3:16 PM ET #131

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    @Midnight1   Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @Midnight1  Do you realize Muskrat looked like a fool again when he claimed people 150 years old were still getting Social Security? What do you mean?   He was not saying they were 150 years old, just that they would have been if they were still alive--because they were obviously dead.. This has been going on for a very long time.  This is not new.  They have always found this to be happening. I remember some years back when a lady was still 'collecting' from someone that had been dead for 25-30 years. No doubt at all that there is a large amount of fraud going on. I agree SS fraud is rampant but let me explain this if I can... SS runs on COBOL (believe it or not) & it doesn't use a date or time type. So the date is stored as a number using the ISO 8601 standard. The epoch for this is 150 years old (1875) aka the metre standard which identifies records & fields of the data. If you don't know the date of something, it will be a 0 (zero) value which in COBOL is 1875 or 150 years ago. His techs interpreted a COBOL error code of 150 to be actual "people" still receiving SS. Finally, if Musk had any proof of someone 150 years old (which is ridiculous on its face) receiving SS, he most certainly would have produced it. He would have been better off identifying "real"SS  fraud of those still receiving checks of deceased family members. He could have arranged FOX cameras to capture the drama when agents broke down doors & arrested the culprits. Instead he decided to peddle this bullshit to the press & they printed his claims. It is looking more and more likely that this is not the complete story.  But something someone posited and folks jumped aboard.  Several COBOL guys say this is not an automatic date, that it would have to be programmed that way. Several forums broke it down in greater detail. This is one that is fairly concise: https://iter.ca/post/1875-epoch/

    Yes, now believing the COBOL issue is not an issue.

    Musk posted on X. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891350795452654076?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1891350795452654076%7Ctwgr%5E2f07ff229942d09d22838aee9e8926191283b894%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fpolitics%2Felon-musk-says-millions-social-security-database-between-ages-100-159

    "The logic flow diagram for the Social Security system looks INSANE. No one person actually knows how it works. The payment files that move between Social Security and Treasury have significant inconsistencies that are not reconciled. It’s wild," Musk declared in a post on X.

    In another post, Musk said "there are FAR more ‘eligible’ social security numbers than there are citizens in the USA. This might be the biggest fraud in history."

     

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    @Midnight1   Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1: Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22: @Midnight1  Do you realize Muskrat looked like a fool again when he claimed people 150 years old were still getting Social Security? What do you mean?   He was not saying they were 150 years old, just that they would have been if they were still alive--because they were obviously dead.. This has been going on for a very long time.  This is not new.  They have always found this to be happening. I remember some years back when a lady was still 'collecting' from someone that had been dead for 25-30 years. No doubt at all that there is a large amount of fraud going on. I agree SS fraud is rampant but let me explain this if I can... SS runs on COBOL (believe it or not) & it doesn't use a date or time type. So the date is stored as a number using the ISO 8601 standard. The epoch for this is 150 years old (1875) aka the metre standard which identifies records & fields of the data. If you don't know the date of something, it will be a 0 (zero) value which in COBOL is 1875 or 150 years ago. His techs interpreted a COBOL error code of 150 to be actual "people" still receiving SS. Finally, if Musk had any proof of someone 150 years old (which is ridiculous on its face) receiving SS, he most certainly would have produced it. He would have been better off identifying "real"SS  fraud of those still receiving checks of deceased family members. He could have arranged FOX cameras to capture the drama when agents broke down doors & arrested the culprits. Instead he decided to peddle this bullshit to the press & they printed his claims. It is looking more and more likely that this is not the complete story.  But something someone posited and folks jumped aboard.  Several COBOL guys say this is not an automatic date, that it would have to be programmed that way. Several forums broke it down in greater detail. This is one that is fairly concise: https://iter.ca/post/1875-epoch/

    Yes, now believing the COBOL issue is not an issue.

    Musk posted on X. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891350795452654076?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1891350795452654076%7Ctwgr%5E2f07ff229942d09d22838aee9e8926191283b894%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fpolitics%2Felon-musk-says-millions-social-security-database-between-ages-100-159

    "The logic flow diagram for the Social Security system looks INSANE. No one person actually knows how it works. The payment files that move between Social Security and Treasury have significant inconsistencies that are not reconciled. It’s wild," Musk declared in a post on X.

    In another post, Musk said "there are FAR more ‘eligible’ social security numbers than there are citizens in the USA. This might be the biggest fraud in history."

     

     

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 3:25 PM ET #132

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    @UNIMAN I don't agree with it all, firing of some inspector generals with over 20 years of service is something I question. Why do you question this one? There are the very ones at the top that are in charge of investigating waste, fraud and inefficiency.  They get paid a lot of money to do this.  Quite obviously, they have been failing to do their jobs. Just curious why you question them being fired?

    Probably because I was once in a govt position, not federal, where I really couldn't do the job that should have been done. The old this is way it's always been done. I moved on. Had competent leadership shown up I would have gladly done my job the right way. Can't help but think some of these folks in the same boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    @UNIMAN I don't agree with it all, firing of some inspector generals with over 20 years of service is something I question. Why do you question this one? There are the very ones at the top that are in charge of investigating waste, fraud and inefficiency.  They get paid a lot of money to do this.  Quite obviously, they have been failing to do their jobs. Just curious why you question them being fired?

    Probably because I was once in a govt position, not federal, where I really couldn't do the job that should have been done. The old this is way it's always been done. I moved on. Had competent leadership shown up I would have gladly done my job the right way. Can't help but think some of these folks in the same boat.

     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 3:55 PM ET #133

    @UNIMAN

     I am not sure I follow that completely.  
    These are the ones in charge of finding the fraud and waste.  

    So, you are saying they did NOT do their jobs because the IGs before them did not do their jobs either?

    So, if it is found out that you have NOT been doing your job by your new boss, you do not think it warrants being fired?

    I would imagine the next person to do that job will actually do it now. 

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    @UNIMAN

     I am not sure I follow that completely.  
    These are the ones in charge of finding the fraud and waste.  

    So, you are saying they did NOT do their jobs because the IGs before them did not do their jobs either?

    So, if it is found out that you have NOT been doing your job by your new boss, you do not think it warrants being fired?

    I would imagine the next person to do that job will actually do it now. 

     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 6:27 PM ET #134

    Nothing DOGE has identified is evidence of fraud according to Jessica Tillipman government law dean at George Washington university.  Trump administration has different spending priorities than other administrations.  But to label everything as fraud or waste is misleading.  2023 report shows inspector generals work lead to 4000 prosecutions and $93 billion in potential savings.   Although fraud is determined by court of law. waste is in the eye of the beholder.  For examples, DEI and media subscriptions.  In social security, under 1% of payments are made improperly because of incorrect data or unnoticed deaths.  But since the program is so large, even a tiny fraction means big dollar amounts.

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    Nothing DOGE has identified is evidence of fraud according to Jessica Tillipman government law dean at George Washington university.  Trump administration has different spending priorities than other administrations.  But to label everything as fraud or waste is misleading.  2023 report shows inspector generals work lead to 4000 prosecutions and $93 billion in potential savings.   Although fraud is determined by court of law. waste is in the eye of the beholder.  For examples, DEI and media subscriptions.  In social security, under 1% of payments are made improperly because of incorrect data or unnoticed deaths.  But since the program is so large, even a tiny fraction means big dollar amounts.

     
    cd329
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 7:14 PM ET #135

    Quote Originally Posted by unplucked_gem:

    @cd329 #128 Because America doesn't lead the field in all categories and perhaps other world leaders can offer efficiency insight.  Asked and answered. #105 Musk doubled down with data contrary to the COBOL argument, so does the possibility that one of you could be wrong exist? For my part, I'd rather be a side stepper than constantly getting things wrong

    What a total bullshit maga answer.  Musk has no right holding meetings with foreign leaders.  Theres laws against this. no matter what these clowns do, even if illegal the magas will just keep defending them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unplucked_gem:

    @cd329 #128 Because America doesn't lead the field in all categories and perhaps other world leaders can offer efficiency insight.  Asked and answered. #105 Musk doubled down with data contrary to the COBOL argument, so does the possibility that one of you could be wrong exist? For my part, I'd rather be a side stepper than constantly getting things wrong

    What a total bullshit maga answer.  Musk has no right holding meetings with foreign leaders.  Theres laws against this. no matter what these clowns do, even if illegal the magas will just keep defending them.

     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 7:25 PM ET #136

    Elon Musk and President Trump are great friends and brilliant leaders working together to Make America Great Again.

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    Elon Musk and President Trump are great friends and brilliant leaders working together to Make America Great Again.

     
    cd329
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 7:28 PM ET #137

    Musk saying there are millions of people in the social security system over 100, 150 and 200 years old. This south african immigrant is such a fraud scammer its unreal and all the maga guppies are eating his bullshit right up. If all these people are collecting SS, then they should be sending cops to all these peoples houses and arresting them. If you cant see what he and trump are trying to do, then you need to get some street smarts. Hes gonna say the whole system needs to be shut down and people will have to apply all over again, which would take years and years to get people their money they earned. Most will endup dying before ever getting back onto the system.  Just watch how all the magas parents get screwed, then maybe they will wake up and realize how they all got royally fooled by con artists.

    I would love to make a wager with musk that there are no persons on social security that are 150 years old and getting checks. They might be in some database, but they arent collecting money. I would cash this bet so easily. Musk is a fraud and just looking to fleece money out of the govt and shut down all the investigations against him.

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    Musk saying there are millions of people in the social security system over 100, 150 and 200 years old. This south african immigrant is such a fraud scammer its unreal and all the maga guppies are eating his bullshit right up. If all these people are collecting SS, then they should be sending cops to all these peoples houses and arresting them. If you cant see what he and trump are trying to do, then you need to get some street smarts. Hes gonna say the whole system needs to be shut down and people will have to apply all over again, which would take years and years to get people their money they earned. Most will endup dying before ever getting back onto the system.  Just watch how all the magas parents get screwed, then maybe they will wake up and realize how they all got royally fooled by con artists.

    I would love to make a wager with musk that there are no persons on social security that are 150 years old and getting checks. They might be in some database, but they arent collecting money. I would cash this bet so easily. Musk is a fraud and just looking to fleece money out of the govt and shut down all the investigations against him.

     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 8:05 PM ET #138

    cd329, The problem with you is..you don't like African Americans..

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    cd329, The problem with you is..you don't like African Americans..

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 8:44 PM ET #139

    @cd329

     Who said anybody over 150, 200 years old are collecting SS. Only you did.

    The fact they are not listed as dead is some sloppy bookkeeping. 

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    @cd329

     Who said anybody over 150, 200 years old are collecting SS. Only you did.

    The fact they are not listed as dead is some sloppy bookkeeping. 

     
    spockgato
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 8:50 PM ET #140

    wallstreetcappers craps in his draws and pees fuckin backwards from his vaj with a squirt.
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    THEMUGG
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 9:23 PM ET #141

     

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Elon Musk and President Trump are great friends and brilliant leaders working together to Make America Great Again.
    peace_5

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    Elon Musk and President Trump are great friends and brilliant leaders working together to Make America Great Again.
    peace_5

     
    cd329
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 9:39 PM ET #142

    lmfaooo heres an opinion piece talking about the same thing i posted about musk and his social security bullshit.

    Just like i said musk and trumps plan is to say the whole social security system is fraud and then they will shut it down.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/opinion-elon-musk-coming-social-183000465.html

     

    The folks who keep saying this make America great again are nothing but traitors to our country. America has always been great. You magas just fell for a con artists fancy slogan.  Its a real shame most people, especially magas dont have any common sense and street smarts, they just believe what the career con artist tells you to believe.

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    lmfaooo heres an opinion piece talking about the same thing i posted about musk and his social security bullshit.

    Just like i said musk and trumps plan is to say the whole social security system is fraud and then they will shut it down.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/opinion-elon-musk-coming-social-183000465.html

     

    The folks who keep saying this make America great again are nothing but traitors to our country. America has always been great. You magas just fell for a con artists fancy slogan.  Its a real shame most people, especially magas dont have any common sense and street smarts, they just believe what the career con artist tells you to believe.

     
    cd329
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 9:40 PM ET #143

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    cd329, The problem with you is..you don't like African Americans..

     

    still the same old slim.  where have you been for so long?  Prison?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    cd329, The problem with you is..you don't like African Americans..

     

    still the same old slim.  where have you been for so long?  Prison?

     
    spockgato
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 9:54 PM ET #144

    Jesus Christ. Keep it civil . All you’ve done is come in here and talk down to people . My God . Stop attacking and harassing . If you want discussion that’s fine . But stop the insults . 

    wallstreetcappers craps in his draws and pees fuckin backwards from his vaj with a squirt.
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    Jesus Christ. Keep it civil . All you’ve done is come in here and talk down to people . My God . Stop attacking and harassing . If you want discussion that’s fine . But stop the insults . 

     
    cd329
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 10:29 PM ET #145

    Quote Originally Posted by spockgato:

    Jesus Christ. Keep it civil . All you’ve done is come in here and talk down to people . My God . Stop attacking and harassing . If you want discussion that’s fine . But stop the insults .

    sorry but not harassing anybody and the only people am attacking is musk, trump and the whole entire maga cult.  Nice try thou, you wont get me into back and forth battle.  Have a great day spocko

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    Quote Originally Posted by spockgato:

    Jesus Christ. Keep it civil . All you’ve done is come in here and talk down to people . My God . Stop attacking and harassing . If you want discussion that’s fine . But stop the insults .

    sorry but not harassing anybody and the only people am attacking is musk, trump and the whole entire maga cult.  Nice try thou, you wont get me into back and forth battle.  Have a great day spocko

     
    Midnight1
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 10:47 PM ET #146

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    cd329, The problem with you is..you don't like African Americans..

    Why would you say something so offensive to cd329??

    Seriously, what's wrong with you?

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    cd329, The problem with you is..you don't like African Americans..

    Why would you say something so offensive to cd329??

    Seriously, what's wrong with you?

     

     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 10:55 PM ET #147

    @cd329...DID YOU KNOW ....

    A common misconception is that Fort Knox is the largest gold deposit in the world,(4583 tons of gold) but ,,this title is actually held by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, located at 33 Liberty Street, New York City.

    The building is estimated to hold an impressive 6,350 tons of gold, worth $203.3 billion. The majority of this does not belong to the US though; over 95% of this bullion is stored for governments and international investors. 

                                                                                                              ...  US Mint figures are for January 2018

     

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    @cd329...DID YOU KNOW ....

    A common misconception is that Fort Knox is the largest gold deposit in the world,(4583 tons of gold) but ,,this title is actually held by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, located at 33 Liberty Street, New York City.

    The building is estimated to hold an impressive 6,350 tons of gold, worth $203.3 billion. The majority of this does not belong to the US though; over 95% of this bullion is stored for governments and international investors. 

                                                                                                              ...  US Mint figures are for January 2018

     

     
    Midnight1
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 11:04 PM ET #148

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    @cd329...DID YOU KNOW .... A common misconception is that Fort Knox is the largest gold deposit in the world,(4583 tons of gold) but ,,this title is actually held by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, located at 33 Liberty Street, New York City. The building is estimated to hold an impressive 6,350 tons of gold, worth $203.3 billion. The majority of this does not belong to the US though; over 95% of this bullion is stored for governments and international investors.                                                                                                            ...  US Mint figures are for January 2018

    Thanks for sharing 7 year old news with us all. Let us all know if anything changes.

    Keep up the fine work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    @cd329...DID YOU KNOW .... A common misconception is that Fort Knox is the largest gold deposit in the world,(4583 tons of gold) but ,,this title is actually held by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, located at 33 Liberty Street, New York City. The building is estimated to hold an impressive 6,350 tons of gold, worth $203.3 billion. The majority of this does not belong to the US though; over 95% of this bullion is stored for governments and international investors.                                                                                                            ...  US Mint figures are for January 2018

    Thanks for sharing 7 year old news with us all. Let us all know if anything changes.

    Keep up the fine work!

     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 11:08 PM ET #149

    @Midnight1

     

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1:

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim: cd329, The problem with you is..you don't like African Americans..

     

    Why would you say something so offensive to cd329?? Seriously, what's wrong with you?

     

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    @Midnight1

     

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1:

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim: cd329, The problem with you is..you don't like African Americans..

     

    Why would you say something so offensive to cd329?? Seriously, what's wrong with you?

     

     
     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2025 - 11:12 PM ET #150

    [Quote: Originally Posted by cd329]Musk saying there are millions of people in the social security system over 100, 150 and 200 years old. This south african immigrant is such a fraud scammer its unreal and all the maga guppies are eating his bullshit right up. If all these people are collecting SS, then they should be sending cops to all these peoples houses and arresting them.

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    [Quote: Originally Posted by cd329]Musk saying there are millions of people in the social security system over 100, 150 and 200 years old. This south african immigrant is such a fraud scammer its unreal and all the maga guppies are eating his bullshit right up. If all these people are collecting SS, then they should be sending cops to all these peoples houses and arresting them.

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