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If you bet on Hillary, you should be worried

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Posted: #51
bunch of idiots, Arizona and Georgia are turning blue.

wake the f up
 
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Posted: #52
Point/counterpoint:

1) Domestic economics         Specifically: Lower corporate and personal tax rates. Revisiting trade agreements such as NAFTA, GATT, and TPP. A complete overhaul on tariffs and federal intervention in the export sector.

That's fantastic. I hope to pay lower taxes.  Just one problem though....the decrease in governmental revenue, the increase in military spending he proposed, the revision of trade agreements which will lead to higher costs and thus interest rates, has led nearly every major economic analyst to predict recession, similar to the trickle down days. 

Here is the WSJ, a highly conservative source, discussion. 
https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-economic-plan-up-close-doesnt-add-up-1476891467

I encourage anyone to check out the link. Rupert Murdoch owns the WSJ. He has been a large donor to the Clinton camp over the years: 

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/29/fox-is-one-of-the-biggest-donors-to-the-clintons/

As GDP grows, tax revenues increase even at lower tax rates. Tangible economic growth will provide more than enough revenue to cover increased defense spending as well as lower individual and corporate tax rates.

This piece outlines the hard data supporting this assertion: 

https://taxfoundation.org/blog/economic-growth-drives-level-tax-revenue

NAFTA is a great example of how various trade agreements have destroyed our economy. In 1993, shortly after NAFTA was enacted, the US had a $1.7 billion trade surplus with Mexico. By 2014, it was a $54 billion dollar deficit. Estimated loss of American jobs was 600,000. 

read it here: https://www.cfr.org/trade/naftas-economic-impact/p15790

For the record, NAFTA has enjoyed bipartisan support over the years and has served as a template for the transfer of wealth from the US to the international community. Trump will at least address this.
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Posted: #53
2) Healthcare                Listen to the nuts and bolts regarding a proposed repeal of Obamacare. Insurance companies have driven healthcare costs through the roof. Hospitals, dentists, and independent healthcare providers are facing unprecedented financial pressures. Consumers are having to drop policies because of rising premiums due to geographical location. A truly open and competitive insurance market will ensure affordability of insurance.

We can blame ObamaCare all we want, but the real facts are that EMTALA increased the costs of health care by 9000% since 1981. That is easy to understand because it forces providers to absorb costs with no assurance of payment. 

Oh, and we've had a competitive insurance market that entire time.

EMTALA is a big part of why the medical industry takes a major hit annually. Of course it wasn't actively enforced until the tail end of Bill Clinton's administration in 2000. That was a bullying tactic by the Feds against hospitals....they levied more fines than in the previous 10 years combined.

 https://www.acep.org/news-media-top-banner/emtala/

Why stop at 1981 to calculate healthcare costs? Why not take it back to 1950? We are talking about Obamacare here...and since its mandate, healthcare costs have grown faster than inflation. 

Check it out: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2015/06/29/u-s-health-care-costs-rise-faster-than-inflation/#139d94786ad2

What is alarming is that the gap between the growth in healthcare costs and inflation is getting larger. Obama care is a disaster.


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Posted: #54
3) National Security       The rhetoric out of the Clinton and Obama camp towards Russia is incendiary and polarizing. Allowing US aircraft carriers to be fired upon by assorted groups in Yemen without retaliation, coupled with fighting a "limited war" against ISIS in the middle east both undermine US strength and security. That will change under Trump.

So you are suggesting that Trump will get us into more conflict. I thought that was the main concern with HRC and Obama is that they are too hawkish.

My position is that we are already in conflict with ISIS in the middle east. The rhetoric out of the HRC camp predominately deals with Russia as our main foe, typically in the Syrian arena. There is a MAJOR difference between eliminating ISIS strongholds, taking care of rogues in Yemen, and a boots-on-the-ground war against a foe like Russia that will likely divide the globe into 2 sides. 

Here she openly threatens war against Russia as a response for cyber attacks: 

https://theduran.com/hillary-declare-war-cyberattackers-threatens-russia-half-full-auditorium/

Agreed the source is obscure, but they provide the video of her speach at Duke Energy Convention Center. Alarming at best, haunting at worst.
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Posted: #55
Facts are not very important to you I see. 

Murdock has been highly critical of Obama and Clinton and backed Trump for  awhile. 
https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/why-rupert-murdoch-decided-to-support-trump.html

Also, EMTALA is an Act. It prevents hospitals from denying a patient for treatment. Since 1981, hospitals cannot deny a person entry for treatment, which, as one might understand, has coincided with the incredible increase in rates (to compensate for the losses that a hospital incurs)

Also, citing Breibart for the proposition that another media source is biased will not get you much credibility at the big boy table.  



 
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Posted: #56
4) Political scandal         Wiki leaks has exposed the Clinton/media alliance.  This an example of government controlled media, as in Soviet Russia. This alliance will be challenged under Trump.

The government controlled media? Every day we are reading about scandals from the Clintons that did not arise from Wikileaks. Actually, he has promised to curb press freedom. 

My phrasing was poor in the original point. My goal was to praise Wiki leaks for exposing the links between the Clinton campaign, ABC news, CNN, and the New York Times.

This:  https://www.breitbart.com/wikileaks/2016/10/14/wikileaks-reveals-long-list-clinton-media-canoodling/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/26/trump-pledges-curb-press-freedom-libel-laws-first-amendment

The argument put forth in the piece is weak. Trump is saying that when a media outlet knowingly prints a story that is false, they are open for litigation. The "actual malice" portion of libel cases is extremely difficult to prove.

If it can be proved that a media outlet knowingly promotes falsehoods and publishes lies, no matter the motivation, why should they not be taken to task? 

And he has restricted press from following him. 
https://money.cnn.com/2016/06/13/media/donald-trump-washington-post-credentials/

So what? As of now, he is still a private citizen. To restrict the Washington post's access is his personal preference. After all, it is his airplane, not the taxpayers.  




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Posted: #57
5) Bengazi         This happened under Clinton. Inexcusable, and undeniable.

Agreed. Every president since Truman has presided over the deaths of Americans at the hands of terrorists. I cannot imagine that any President would be free from this reality. I hope I'm wrong. Certainly you fault Reagan, Bush, and Bush II the same.

Clinton was not the president. She was the Secretary of State. Maintaining communications with US embassies around world fell directly under her jurisdiction. She failed miserably at this task. 

6) Term limits       Unless you are a politician, term limits make perfect sense. Even proposing this change in governmental structure is bold, and a place to start.

I have mixed feelings on term limits. I kind of like this quote:

“Well, I’m not a believer in term limits,” Trump said at the time. “If you don’t like someone, you push a button.” He later added, “I don’t know why it’s popular. I think it’s people who really press it who want to run for office and the only way they’ll get elected is, I guess, to term limit people out because they can’t win an election.”

Quotes from 2008 when stumping for Bloomberg take a backseat to the campaign promises of October, 2016. 

Personally, I like this one:  

“Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody’s going to believe them.” –on Bill Clinton’s bimbo eruptions
 Hillary Clinton, the ardent feminist. 

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Posted: #58
if you think trump can fix everything u are an idiot, he cannot even run a casino.
 
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Posted: #59
Quote Originally Posted by bigvern1013:



“Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody’s going to believe them.” –on Bill Clinton’s bimbo eruptions
 Hillary Clinton, the ardent feminist. 


The quote you said above is what we call an indirect quote. In other words, it was reported by someone else. Some call this hearsay. She may have said it, she may not have. 

Have you seen Trump's quotes on his bimbo accusers? These are called direct quotes and not hearsay. 

But I digress....

Don't you think it is lightly ironic that Trump wants to be able to sue and shut down newspapers for the stories about his actions, yet attacks Bill Clinton for accusations made (which appeared in, gasp...the newspapers). 

See, the problem is you think how the far right wing tells you to think. To quote Good Will Hunting, don't do that. Think for yourself son. Its not too late. 
 
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Posted: #60
Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

Facts are not very important to you I see. 

Murdock has been highly critical of Obama and Clinton and backed Trump for  awhile. 
https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/why-rupert-murdoch-decided-to-support-trump.html

Also, EMTALA is an Act. It prevents hospitals from denying a patient for treatment. Since 1981, hospitals cannot deny a person entry for treatment, which, as one might understand, has coincided with the incredible increase in rates (to compensate for the losses that a hospital incurs)

Also, citing Breibart for the proposition that another media source is biased will not get you much credibility at the big boy table.  




The cost to hospitals associated with providing emergency healthcare to people whom cannot pay is considered to be a bad debt expense, and is written off on their balance sheets. Government subsidies often compensate the hospitals for this expense. This is the reason that many hospitals become "charitable providers."  https://www.journalnow.com/hospitals-likely-to-see-more-bad-debt-if-subsidies-go/article_909b31d3-91ca-51fd-bd0a-19d0ef019316.html Maybe take an accounting class?

By the way, mandatory emergency treatment began in the 1960's...enforcement of EMTALA did not come into vogue until 2000. It is arguable that it has been used as a tool by the government to bully the healthcare industry. 

As for sources, it is convenient that brietbart isn't an acceptable one but CNN.com, the guardian, and a WSJ opinion piece are gospel. Convenient. 

Seriously, nymag.com? Are you kidding.... 




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Posted: #61
Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:


The quote you said above is what we call an indirect quote. In other words, it was reported by someone else. Some call this hearsay. She may have said it, she may not have. 

Have you seen Trump's quotes on his bimbo accusers? These are called direct quotes and not hearsay. 

But I digress....

Don't you think it is lightly ironic that Trump wants to be able to sue and shut down newspapers for the stories about his actions, yet attacks Bill Clinton for accusations made (which appeared in, gasp...the newspapers). 

See, the problem is you think how the far right wing tells you to think. To quote Good Will Hunting, don't do that. Think for yourself son. Its not too late. 

Nah. Experience is my best teacher. I have been around for awhile, and have had the opportunity to see politicians come and go. Republicans, democrats, it is all the same. 

The conclusion that I have drawn is that being a politician is a career, and politicians have more in common with each other than with the public. Politics in Washington D.C. is an economy all of its own, with elected officials, lobbyists and media types all making a living working in concert with one another.

We are seeing the collusion first hand. Everyone in Washington is lining up against the outsider. And, I think that is great. History will show the election of 2016 to be a teachable moment.

So, I think our debate is winding down. I have outlined the issues, how I see them, and you have put forth your ideas. I may have even learned a little something. 

But, it is funny that you end the conversation by putting me in a group (profiling, if you will), attacking Trump's character, defending HRC, and ultimately avoiding the issues altogether.

Although you make some coherent arguments, at the end of the day your viewpoint is pretty simple. You hate Trump. Because you hate him. End of story. 
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Posted: #62
Quote Originally Posted by bigvern1013:


The cost to hospitals associated with providing emergency healthcare to people whom cannot pay is considered to be a bad debt expense, and is written off on their balance sheets. Government subsidies often compensate the hospitals for this expense. This is the reason that many hospitals become "charitable providers."  https://www.journalnow.com/hospitals-likely-to-see-more-bad-debt-if-subsidies-go/article_909b31d3-91ca-51fd-bd0a-19d0ef019316.html Maybe take an accounting class?

By the way, mandatory emergency treatment began in the 1960's...enforcement of EMTALA did not come into vogue until 2000. It is arguable that it has been used as a tool by the government to bully the healthcare industry. 

As for sources, it is convenient that brietbart isn't an acceptable one but CNN.com, the guardian, and a WSJ opinion piece are gospel. Convenient. 

Seriously, nymag.com? Are you kidding.... 





The article you cited had nothing to do with EMTALA, it had everything to do with the ACA. You are out of your league son. 

Sigh....

The government does not compensate the hospital for patients costs under EMTALA. 

And again, it is not a law to be enforced. It prevented hospitals from denying treatment. You should understand the law and the facts before commenting. And I should add, I agree on citing biased sources. My article had actual quotes about who Murdoch supported. Yours was an opinion piece
 
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Posted: #63
Quote Originally Posted by bigvern1013:




Although you make some coherent arguments, at the end of the day your viewpoint is pretty simple. You hate Trump. Because you hate him. End of story. 

Please point out where I said anything about Trump as a person or where I defended HRC. 

I look forward to that. 

But I will credit you that I did essentially agree with this quote you made:

My position is that we are already in conflict with ISIS in the middle east. The rhetoric out of the HRC camp predominately deals with Russia as our main foe, typically in the Syrian arena. There is a MAJOR difference between eliminating ISIS strongholds, taking care of rogues in Yemen, and a boots-on-the-ground war against a foe like Russia that will likely divide the globe into 2 sides. 

 
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Posted: #64
Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:


Please point out where I said anything about Trump as a person or where I defended HRC. 

Here is you calling HRC's quote "heresay":  The quote you said above is what we call an indirect quote. In other words, it was reported by someone else. Some call this hearsay. She may have said it, she may not have. 

Your quote on Trump as a person: Have you seen Trump's quotes on his bimbo accusers? These are called direct quotes and not hearsay. 

But I digress....

Don't you think it is lightly ironic that Trump wants to be able to sue and shut down newspapers for the stories about his actions, yet attacks Bill Clinton for accusations made (which appeared in, gasp...the newspapers).
I look forward to that. 

But I will credit you that you did essentially agree with this quote you made:

My position is that we are already in conflict with ISIS in the middle east. The rhetoric out of the HRC camp predominately deals with Russia as our main foe, typically in the Syrian arena. There is a MAJOR difference between eliminating ISIS strongholds, taking care of rogues in Yemen, and a boots-on-the-ground war against a foe like Russia that will likely divide the globe into 2 sides. 


The dismissal of the HRC quote as heresay is a direct defense of her, and the two quotes referencing Trump verbiage regarding his accusers and your argument that he wants to restrict the media implies that he is a hypocrite.

As for EMTALA, it passed congress in the 1980's. It is legislation that affords the government the ability to levy financial penalties against hospitals that deny emergency care to patients. It is a great example of the government using a "big stick" to make individual healthcare providers toe the line. Admittedly, in the source I gave you do have to read passed the first paragraph to understand when enforcement became popular.

OF course we are not debating the spike of healthcare costs since Obamacare (the original statement) due to insurance company consolidation and collusion, but that is to be expected
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Posted: #65
In any case, I will give you the last word. 
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Posted: #66
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

Certainly you fault Reagan, Bush, and Bush II the same.

it's one thing to have disagreements over issues but if you are going to suggest that BENGHAZI!!!!! isn't the most tragic event that has ever occurred on September 11, or any other date, then you've definitely crossed the line

Only on covers lol
 
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Posted: #67
No need for rigging the sensible average middle class voting majority is keeping trump out just fine. 

Not to mention trump seemingly trying to lose this single handedly. 

This is far from a tie being decided by weeks of hanging chads
 
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Posted: #68
BigVern I'm waiting for you to post that huge ML ticket on Trump with those favorable odds. You will CLEAN UP my friend. 
 
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Posted: #69

Quote Originally Posted by KingRGIII:

BigVern I'm waiting for you to post that huge ML ticket on Trump with those favorable odds. You will CLEAN UP my friend. 

Tempting....but I think that dl36 works for the IRS.

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Posted: #70
Quote Originally Posted by bigvern1013:

Tempting....but I think that dl36 works for the IRS.



Did he get banned ?
 
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Posted: #71
Quote Originally Posted by DRIBBLE4LIFE:

STOP WITH THESE POINTLESS THREADS.

THE PEOPEL WHO REALLY CONTRO LTHE WORLD (THE person, FOR THOSE WHO DONT KNOW), WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER ALLOW TRUMP INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

IF YOU ARENT SMART ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND, WE ALL SAW A RIGGED ELECTION IN 200, TO KEEP OUT AL GORE.

THERE, I JUST SAVED ALL OF YOU HEARTACHE AND LOADS OF TIME YOU MAY SPEND PICKING YOUR NOSE.

The Illuminati 


Phuckin jack@ss.  How is anyone suppose to take you as a conspiracy clown seriously?

So let's get this straight.  There's a New World Order, sports are fixed and OJ did not murder Nicole.  This is what I gathered from you so far.  Please let me know whether I omitted anything.  

The irony of someone calling another poster not smart when he/she consistently makes spelling and grammatical errors.  
 
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Posted: #72

Vern you can't be serious making a thread title like this on 10/16/16 after all we've seen.

You should be ashamed as a capper saying this...

 
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Posted: #73

With little more than two weeks before Election Day, early-voting data shows some positive signs for Clinton in Florida and for Trump in parts of the Midwest.

Approximately 4.9 million people have cast ballots under early voting that has begun in more than half the states, including major states such as Florida, Ohio, Iowa, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona and Colorado.

The actual vote tallies won't be available till Election Day but some information is available on the party registration of those casting or requesting early or absentee ballots.

Experts told ABC News that positive trends are starting to emerge for Clinton in Florida and for Trump in Ohio and Iowa.

In Florida, Republicans typically outperform Democrats in mail-in votes, but this year Democrats may be narrowing that gap and earlier this week were even ahead in the number of mailed ballots cast by voters registered with their party.

Registered Republicans had by Friday taken the lead on mail-in votes in Florida but only by about 5,800 votes, a number that pleases the state's Democratic Party.

“The Florida Democratic Party has successfully eliminated the historic Republican advantage in vote-by-mail,” state Democratic Party Executive Director Scott Arceneaux said in a statement. "We look forward to building on this momentum as we head into the beginning of early voting and Election Day.”

Elections expert Michael McDonald told ABC News that if registered Republicans fail to take a significant lead in mail-in votes in Florida, they are likely to fall further behind with in-person voting on Election Day. Currently, Republicans have a lead of less than 1 percent.

Early voting is showing more hopeful signs for Republicans in parts of the Midwest.

In Iowa, Democrats typically make more requests for absentee ballots while Republicans show up in greater numbers at the polls on Election Day.

This year, about 30,000 more registered Democrats than Republicans have asked for absentee ballots, a margin that is down 20 percent since the 2012 election, according to data provided by the Iowa Secretary of State. The number of GOP voters making ballot requests is pretty much the same as in 2012.

 
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Posted: #74
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

Vern you can't be serious making a thread title like this on 10/16/16 after all we've seen.

You should be ashamed as a capper saying this...

I was wondering how long it was going to take for you to weigh in on this thread.

The main objective was to point out that after all of the press that Trump was only 4 points behind in the polling data as of 10/16....and that any fool who was laying -600 to -750 on Clinton to win was way too exposed, and should be worried. No shame at all in that.

Now, as for guys like Vanzack and a few others who grabbed Clinton in May at prices around -200, I have ZERO issue with them. They assumed many risks, including the Sanders factor, and Hillary's health.

For the record, I can not agree more with Van's assertion that democrats start with 242 electoral votes, literally assuring them the victory.

My position is that we will be looking at voter turnout levels higher than we have seen in a long while.....and they are going to vote against the establishment candidate in droves. So, we will see if it is enough.

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Posted: #75
Quote Originally Posted by mainman11111:

With little more than two weeks before Election Day, early-voting data shows some positive signs for Clinton in Florida and for Trump in parts of the Midwest.

Approximately 4.9 million people have cast ballots under early voting that has begun in more than half the states, including major states such as Florida, Ohio, Iowa, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona and Colorado.

The actual vote tallies won't be available till Election Day but some information is available on the party registration of those casting or requesting early or absentee ballots.

Experts told ABC News that positive trends are starting to emerge for Clinton in Florida and for Trump in Ohio and Iowa.

In Florida, Republicans typically outperform Democrats in mail-in votes, but this year Democrats may be narrowing that gap and earlier this week were even ahead in the number of mailed ballots cast by voters registered with their party.

Registered Republicans had by Friday taken the lead on mail-in votes in Florida but only by about 5,800 votes, a number that pleases the state's Democratic Party.

“The Florida Democratic Party has successfully eliminated the historic Republican advantage in vote-by-mail,” state Democratic Party Executive Director Scott Arceneaux said in a statement. "We look forward to building on this momentum as we head into the beginning of early voting and Election Day.”

Elections expert Michael McDonald told ABC News that if registered Republicans fail to take a significant lead in mail-in votes in Florida, they are likely to fall further behind with in-person voting on Election Day. Currently, Republicans have a lead of less than 1 percent.

Early voting is showing more hopeful signs for Republicans in parts of the Midwest.

In Iowa, Democrats typically make more requests for absentee ballots while Republicans show up in greater numbers at the polls on Election Day.

This year, about 30,000 more registered Democrats than Republicans have asked for absentee ballots, a margin that is down 20 percent since the 2012 election, according to data provided by the Iowa Secretary of State. The number of GOP voters making ballot requests is pretty much the same as in 2012.

This type of reporting has only begun. Absentee balloting and early exit polling data will undoubtedly lean democrat.

If nothing else, Wikileaks has shown the collusion between media outlets like ABC and the DNC....I look upon any news releases with skepticism, and obvious attempts at suppressing the vote, specifically the Republican vote.

Like I said above, we will see.

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