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    All Forums | NFL Betting Forum

    Is Peyton Manning really Jesus Christ?

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    fel2718
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    fel2718
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 5:01 PM ET #51

    Quote Originally Posted by heeeeeh:



    Ok first of all, Manning doesn't have 8 loses, the Colts have 8 loses in the playoffs, last time I check football is a sport that is played 11 players on each side of the ball, Manning can not play defense, nor can he control what will happen on the defensive side of the ball.

    Brady won his 3 superbowls because of his defense, he has never brought his team back in the playoffs on a game winning drive while they were down, every time Brady has led his team on a game wining drive was when the game was tied and he had less pressure on him rather than when he was down. The only time I can remember Brady leading his team from being down was in the playoffs vs the Chargers a few years back. People think Brady is so clutch when that is a complete joke, he has benefited from having on of the best defenses to ever take the field. Maning has never had the benefit of that. Brady has shown his true colours of choking when his defense isn't as good, vs the Colts in the AFC Championship, Mr "Clutch" had the chance to lead his team to victory but choked and threw a pick, then again vs the Giants in the SB, he only managed to put of 14 points on the Giants while their defense did their part and held the Giants to 17, Brady choked with under a minute left. Then  again against the Dolphins this year, he threw another pick to end the game. Finally, against the Ravens in the playoffs with no defense, Brady could not do shit!


    Peyton finally proved all the haters who said Brady could win with no wideouts, well look what Peyton is doing with Collie and Garcon. People keep bringing up Dallas Clark who wasn't even a top 5 TE until peyton got him more involved in the offense. Clearly Wayne is a top reciever but would not be the WR he is today without Manning.


    That fact that Peyton has 5 MVPS (1 SB MVP) and 1 SB ring at the age of 33 and this year has a chance to get #2 is ridiculous with the defense he has had in the past. Give Peyton the Pats defense or Steelers defense of years past and Peyton could easily have 4 SBS.

    People like you tend not to watch the game insted just look at the stats after the game, yes Peyton may have not played some of his best games in the playoffs but unlike Brady or Ben there was never a defense to cover for his mistakes.

    People talk about Brady's injury and of course it was serious but people also tend to forget what Manning did with his injury last year, and he didn't play any preseason games or did not go through training camp and yet he got his team to 12 wins and a MVP while playing injured for half the year.

    Remember Peyton is doing this year in an year out with the lowest or one of the lowest ranked rush offenses.


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    Quote Originally Posted by heeeeeh:



    Ok first of all, Manning doesn't have 8 loses, the Colts have 8 loses in the playoffs, last time I check football is a sport that is played 11 players on each side of the ball, Manning can not play defense, nor can he control what will happen on the defensive side of the ball.

    Brady won his 3 superbowls because of his defense, he has never brought his team back in the playoffs on a game winning drive while they were down, every time Brady has led his team on a game wining drive was when the game was tied and he had less pressure on him rather than when he was down. The only time I can remember Brady leading his team from being down was in the playoffs vs the Chargers a few years back. People think Brady is so clutch when that is a complete joke, he has benefited from having on of the best defenses to ever take the field. Maning has never had the benefit of that. Brady has shown his true colours of choking when his defense isn't as good, vs the Colts in the AFC Championship, Mr "Clutch" had the chance to lead his team to victory but choked and threw a pick, then again vs the Giants in the SB, he only managed to put of 14 points on the Giants while their defense did their part and held the Giants to 17, Brady choked with under a minute left. Then  again against the Dolphins this year, he threw another pick to end the game. Finally, against the Ravens in the playoffs with no defense, Brady could not do shit!


    Peyton finally proved all the haters who said Brady could win with no wideouts, well look what Peyton is doing with Collie and Garcon. People keep bringing up Dallas Clark who wasn't even a top 5 TE until peyton got him more involved in the offense. Clearly Wayne is a top reciever but would not be the WR he is today without Manning.


    That fact that Peyton has 5 MVPS (1 SB MVP) and 1 SB ring at the age of 33 and this year has a chance to get #2 is ridiculous with the defense he has had in the past. Give Peyton the Pats defense or Steelers defense of years past and Peyton could easily have 4 SBS.

    People like you tend not to watch the game insted just look at the stats after the game, yes Peyton may have not played some of his best games in the playoffs but unlike Brady or Ben there was never a defense to cover for his mistakes.

    People talk about Brady's injury and of course it was serious but people also tend to forget what Manning did with his injury last year, and he didn't play any preseason games or did not go through training camp and yet he got his team to 12 wins and a MVP while playing injured for half the year.

    Remember Peyton is doing this year in an year out with the lowest or one of the lowest ranked rush offenses.


    +1

     
    heeeeeh
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 5:06 PM ET #52

    Tom Brady has never had the pressure to carry his team like Peyton Manning has because Brady has always had a defense and a good running game.
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    Tom Brady has never had the pressure to carry his team like Peyton Manning has because Brady has always had a defense and a good running game.
     
    heeeeeh
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 5:11 PM ET #53

    Quote Originally Posted by JimMack6:

    Defense and running game for pittsburgh actually was lacking this year and last year the run game wasn't that great either.  I'm not saying Peyton shouldn't have won the award just dont think it should've been in a landslide. 



    Exactly! The Pittsburgh defense and running game were lacking for Pittsburgh this year and what happened? They didn't even make the playoffs. New England defense and running game were lacking and what happened? 1st round ass kicking by Baltimore.


    THIS IS WHAT PEYTON HAS TO DEAL WITH EVERY SINGLE YEAR PEOPLE! WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimMack6:

    Defense and running game for pittsburgh actually was lacking this year and last year the run game wasn't that great either.  I'm not saying Peyton shouldn't have won the award just dont think it should've been in a landslide. 



    Exactly! The Pittsburgh defense and running game were lacking for Pittsburgh this year and what happened? They didn't even make the playoffs. New England defense and running game were lacking and what happened? 1st round ass kicking by Baltimore.


    THIS IS WHAT PEYTON HAS TO DEAL WITH EVERY SINGLE YEAR PEOPLE! WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
     
    gaybettor
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 5:16 PM ET #54

    Quote Originally Posted by Serb89:

    It's not based 100% on stats you idiot! What do you not understand about that. It's MOST VALUABLE TO YOUR TEAM, I know your pea sized brain can't handle all that info. The guy with the best stats won offensive player of the year award, hence why Chris Johnson won because he had the best stats. Fucking dumb ass.


    heeeeeh  View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: bet365

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    Posted: 1/20/2010 12:17:14 PM
    Don't listen to this clown. He is just a Steelers homer who has nothing better to do with his time since the Steelers are golfing right now and he wishes he had Peyton Manning as his QB because Big "overrated" Ben is only winning championships because of the defense. The steelers only go as far as their defense takes them unlike the Colts. Big Ben would have ZERO Sbs if he played on the Colts. Big Ben is OVERRATED!


    It's people like you two that clog up these forums... you are too insecure with themselves that they have to denigrate others to make themselves feel good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serb89:

    It's not based 100% on stats you idiot! What do you not understand about that. It's MOST VALUABLE TO YOUR TEAM, I know your pea sized brain can't handle all that info. The guy with the best stats won offensive player of the year award, hence why Chris Johnson won because he had the best stats. Fucking dumb ass.


    heeeeeh  View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: bet365

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    Posted: 1/20/2010 12:17:14 PM
    Don't listen to this clown. He is just a Steelers homer who has nothing better to do with his time since the Steelers are golfing right now and he wishes he had Peyton Manning as his QB because Big "overrated" Ben is only winning championships because of the defense. The steelers only go as far as their defense takes them unlike the Colts. Big Ben would have ZERO Sbs if he played on the Colts. Big Ben is OVERRATED!


    It's people like you two that clog up these forums... you are too insecure with themselves that they have to denigrate others to make themselves feel good.
     
    Splooge
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 5:53 PM ET #55

    Quote Originally Posted by heeeeeh:



    You can't mention Brady in the Same breath as Manning, they're on 2 completely different levels. If you're going to compare Playoff records then compare their teams and more importantly their defenses. You finally saw what Brady did this year with no defense, first round exit. People over rate Brady because of his Rings, well he can thank his defense for those rings and spygate. Brady is in the same category as Aikmen, Big Ben and Bradshaw, they are over rated based on their rings which they never would have had if they didn't have the defenses, they are just average QB's who had the benefit of playing on great teams with great defenses, unlike Peyton.

    You're all starting to see how far Peyton can go with a decent defense. He wins another ring this year and he is the greatest of all time by far!

    you could not be more off with these statements. Let the postseason record speak for itself. Brady 14-4 career postseason...Manning 8-8 career postseason.  Don't go back and start telling me about players on teams who had what etc. Brady won with some very middle of the road wr's and never a solid running game to speak of. This is the fist year Manning has had to take the offense on his shoulders w/ their sub zero rushing attack but you have seen how this has weighed on them winning games coming from behind by close margins rarely dominating anybody.  Alright i'm going off on my why Jets win tangent back to why Brady is better than Manning.....They are both 1st ballot hall of famers hands down. Who would I rather have to start my team? Brady because he is more of a gamer in the clutch does it outside in the elements year in year out w/ much less talent then Manning ever had and much less of a rush attack throught their careers no question about it.  I'd love to see how manning would do playing outdoor in the elements with all his timing plays etc perfect footing etc on turf vs what brady has to play 8+ games a year on.  Throw out Balt game pats/balt as he not only didnt have a running game to rely on but he was without his #1 & #2 wr in the game...not very difficult to shut down.  This makes Indy win over Balt look that much less impressive and more the reason why the Jets win Sunday and get to manning.  Let's see a SB ring this year on Manning and then talk until then save it...he's 8-8 post season and has had some clunkers in playoffs...pleassssse

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    Quote Originally Posted by heeeeeh:



    You can't mention Brady in the Same breath as Manning, they're on 2 completely different levels. If you're going to compare Playoff records then compare their teams and more importantly their defenses. You finally saw what Brady did this year with no defense, first round exit. People over rate Brady because of his Rings, well he can thank his defense for those rings and spygate. Brady is in the same category as Aikmen, Big Ben and Bradshaw, they are over rated based on their rings which they never would have had if they didn't have the defenses, they are just average QB's who had the benefit of playing on great teams with great defenses, unlike Peyton.

    You're all starting to see how far Peyton can go with a decent defense. He wins another ring this year and he is the greatest of all time by far!

    you could not be more off with these statements. Let the postseason record speak for itself. Brady 14-4 career postseason...Manning 8-8 career postseason.  Don't go back and start telling me about players on teams who had what etc. Brady won with some very middle of the road wr's and never a solid running game to speak of. This is the fist year Manning has had to take the offense on his shoulders w/ their sub zero rushing attack but you have seen how this has weighed on them winning games coming from behind by close margins rarely dominating anybody.  Alright i'm going off on my why Jets win tangent back to why Brady is better than Manning.....They are both 1st ballot hall of famers hands down. Who would I rather have to start my team? Brady because he is more of a gamer in the clutch does it outside in the elements year in year out w/ much less talent then Manning ever had and much less of a rush attack throught their careers no question about it.  I'd love to see how manning would do playing outdoor in the elements with all his timing plays etc perfect footing etc on turf vs what brady has to play 8+ games a year on.  Throw out Balt game pats/balt as he not only didnt have a running game to rely on but he was without his #1 & #2 wr in the game...not very difficult to shut down.  This makes Indy win over Balt look that much less impressive and more the reason why the Jets win Sunday and get to manning.  Let's see a SB ring this year on Manning and then talk until then save it...he's 8-8 post season and has had some clunkers in playoffs...pleassssse

     
    fel2718
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 6:14 PM ET #56

    The Colts haven't had a rushing game in the top 15 since 2001.

    Last year they were ranked 31st...so this is without a doubt not the first year it's been all Manning.

    It's also not about how many carries they have had because they haven't been top 15 in YPC since 2001.
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    The Colts haven't had a rushing game in the top 15 since 2001.

    Last year they were ranked 31st...so this is without a doubt not the first year it's been all Manning.

    It's also not about how many carries they have had because they haven't been top 15 in YPC since 2001.
     
    NJDevils
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 6:16 PM ET #57

    I dont really like Brees but the MVP was either him or Favre this year
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    I dont really like Brees but the MVP was either him or Favre this year
     
    fel2718
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 6:19 PM ET #58

    Favre took an 10-6 team to a 12-4 team.

    Brees could be in the argument but he has better offensive weapons.  He has the 6th ranked rushing offense, Peyton has the 32nd ranked rushing offense.

    If Manning had an off game it's an automatic loss whereas the Saints could run the ball.  It's MVP not best stats.
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    Favre took an 10-6 team to a 12-4 team.

    Brees could be in the argument but he has better offensive weapons.  He has the 6th ranked rushing offense, Peyton has the 32nd ranked rushing offense.

    If Manning had an off game it's an automatic loss whereas the Saints could run the ball.  It's MVP not best stats.
     
    heeeeeh
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 6:44 PM ET #59

    Quote Originally Posted by fel2718:

    Favre took an 10-6 team to a 12-4 team.

    Brees could be in the argument but he has better offensive weapons.  He has the 6th ranked rushing offense, Peyton has the 32nd ranked rushing offense.

    If Manning had an off game it's an automatic loss whereas the Saints could run the ball.  It's MVP not best stats.


    People do not understand this. THE COLTS DO NOT HAVE A RUNNING GAME AND THE WEAPONS THAT THE SAINTS AND VIKINGS HAVE! What do you people not understand about this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fel2718:

    Favre took an 10-6 team to a 12-4 team.

    Brees could be in the argument but he has better offensive weapons.  He has the 6th ranked rushing offense, Peyton has the 32nd ranked rushing offense.

    If Manning had an off game it's an automatic loss whereas the Saints could run the ball.  It's MVP not best stats.


    People do not understand this. THE COLTS DO NOT HAVE A RUNNING GAME AND THE WEAPONS THAT THE SAINTS AND VIKINGS HAVE! What do you people not understand about this?
     
    allstarkc9
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 7:38 PM ET #60

    Quote Originally Posted by heeeeeh:



    Ok first of all, Manning doesn't have 8 loses, the Colts have 8 loses in the playoffs, last time I check football is a sport that is played 11 players on each side of the ball, Manning can not play defense, nor can he control what will happen on the defensive side of the ball.

    Brady won his 3 superbowls because of his defense, he has never brought his team back in the playoffs on a game winning drive while they were down, every time Brady has led his team on a game wining drive was when the game was tied and he had less pressure on him rather than when he was down. The only time I can remember Brady leading his team from being down was in the playoffs vs the Chargers a few years back. People think Brady is so clutch when that is a complete joke, he has benefited from having on of the best defenses to ever take the field. Maning has never had the benefit of that. Brady has shown his true colours of choking when his defense isn't as good, vs the Colts in the AFC Championship, Mr "Clutch" had the chance to lead his team to victory but choked and threw a pick, then again vs the Giants in the SB, he only managed to put of 14 points on the Giants while their defense did their part and held the Giants to 17, Brady choked with under a minute left. Then  again against the Dolphins this year, he threw another pick to end the game. Finally, against the Ravens in the playoffs with no defense, Brady could not do shit!


    Peyton finally proved all the haters who said Brady could win with no wideouts, well look what Peyton is doing with Collie and Garcon. People keep bringing up Dallas Clark who wasn't even a top 5 TE until peyton got him more involved in the offense. Clearly Wayne is a top reciever but would not be the WR he is today without Manning.


    That fact that Peyton has 5 MVPS (1 SB MVP) and 1 SB ring at the age of 33 and this year has a chance to get #2 is ridiculous with the defense he has had in the past. Give Peyton the Pats defense or Steelers defense of years past and Peyton could easily have 4 SBS.

    People like you tend not to watch the game insted just look at the stats after the game, yes Peyton may have not played some of his best games in the playoffs but unlike Brady or Ben there was never a defense to cover for his mistakes.

    People talk about Brady's injury and of course it was serious but people also tend to forget what Manning did with his injury last year, and he didn't play any preseason games or did not go through training camp and yet he got his team to 12 wins and a MVP while playing injured for half the year.

    Remember Peyton is doing this year in an year out with the lowest or one of the lowest ranked rush offenses.

    This may be the most ignorant post that I have ever read in my life. The fact that I had to highlight almost the whole thing is absolutely rediculous. I don't even know where to start. But I guess I will start at the top and work my way to the bottom.

    #1 - Now if you don't want to pin the losses as Manning's and as the Colts, that is fine with me. This is a team game and it does take 11 guys on each side of the ball to play it. But the Colts have 8 losses with Manning as QB, while the Pats have only 4 losses with Brady as QB. The Colts have 8 wins with Manning at the helm, the Pats have 14 with Brady. The Colts have 1 SB, the Pats have 3.

    #2 - Tom Brady has never played on the same team as the 00' Ravens or the 85' Bears defenses, nor has any Pat D been ever compared to either of them. Brady has had the benefit of good defense but they are certainly not "one of the best to ever step onto the field". In fact, in the 2004 playoffs, the only game they let up less that 21 pts was against the Colts and Peyton Manning, who they held to 3 pts. Next, it baffles my mind how you can say you "watch" the games and don't think Brady is clutch. There is "less" pressure when the game is tied, come on!!!!!!!! Brady led his team to a comeback win down 13-3 going into the 4th against the Raiders in the divisional round in 2001. Then led his team down the field for the game winning field goal after the Rams had tied the game in the Superbowl. In 2003, the Pats went down 22-21 in the Superbowl to the Panthers, only to have Brady bring them down and score, and get the 2 pt conversion, only to have the Panthers comeback and tie the game at 29, to which Brady led the Pats down the field for another Vinitieri field goal.

    #3 - Peyton Manning has 4 MVP's not 5 first of all, and 1 SB, now if this is a team game like you eluded to I think 3 SBs, 4 SB appearances, and 1 MVP is more impressive.

    #4 - I dont watch the games, just look at the stats! I have watched Peyton choke time and time again with one of the best teams in the league! During Mannings tenure with the Colts, 5 times (2002 - 8th, 2003 - 11th, 2005 - 11th, 2007 - 3rd, 2008 - 11th) has he had a defense ranked in the top 11 in the league and not won anything.

    #5 - Peyton Manning had an infected bursa sac in his knee, Tom Brady tore his acl and mcl. Manning is a pocket passer give me a break, thats not playing injured, thats called being a man.

    #6 - Both the Pats and the Colts have always had middle of the road overall running attacks. But both teams throw the ball to their backs alot, difference is Manning has had much better backs. Manning has had the advantage of pass catching backs like Edge and Addai his whole carrier while Brady has Kevin Faulk and Sammy Morris.

    Wow I am tired of proving you wrong, I gotta get a beer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by heeeeeh:



    Ok first of all, Manning doesn't have 8 loses, the Colts have 8 loses in the playoffs, last time I check football is a sport that is played 11 players on each side of the ball, Manning can not play defense, nor can he control what will happen on the defensive side of the ball.

    Brady won his 3 superbowls because of his defense, he has never brought his team back in the playoffs on a game winning drive while they were down, every time Brady has led his team on a game wining drive was when the game was tied and he had less pressure on him rather than when he was down. The only time I can remember Brady leading his team from being down was in the playoffs vs the Chargers a few years back. People think Brady is so clutch when that is a complete joke, he has benefited from having on of the best defenses to ever take the field. Maning has never had the benefit of that. Brady has shown his true colours of choking when his defense isn't as good, vs the Colts in the AFC Championship, Mr "Clutch" had the chance to lead his team to victory but choked and threw a pick, then again vs the Giants in the SB, he only managed to put of 14 points on the Giants while their defense did their part and held the Giants to 17, Brady choked with under a minute left. Then  again against the Dolphins this year, he threw another pick to end the game. Finally, against the Ravens in the playoffs with no defense, Brady could not do shit!


    Peyton finally proved all the haters who said Brady could win with no wideouts, well look what Peyton is doing with Collie and Garcon. People keep bringing up Dallas Clark who wasn't even a top 5 TE until peyton got him more involved in the offense. Clearly Wayne is a top reciever but would not be the WR he is today without Manning.


    That fact that Peyton has 5 MVPS (1 SB MVP) and 1 SB ring at the age of 33 and this year has a chance to get #2 is ridiculous with the defense he has had in the past. Give Peyton the Pats defense or Steelers defense of years past and Peyton could easily have 4 SBS.

    People like you tend not to watch the game insted just look at the stats after the game, yes Peyton may have not played some of his best games in the playoffs but unlike Brady or Ben there was never a defense to cover for his mistakes.

    People talk about Brady's injury and of course it was serious but people also tend to forget what Manning did with his injury last year, and he didn't play any preseason games or did not go through training camp and yet he got his team to 12 wins and a MVP while playing injured for half the year.

    Remember Peyton is doing this year in an year out with the lowest or one of the lowest ranked rush offenses.

    This may be the most ignorant post that I have ever read in my life. The fact that I had to highlight almost the whole thing is absolutely rediculous. I don't even know where to start. But I guess I will start at the top and work my way to the bottom.

    #1 - Now if you don't want to pin the losses as Manning's and as the Colts, that is fine with me. This is a team game and it does take 11 guys on each side of the ball to play it. But the Colts have 8 losses with Manning as QB, while the Pats have only 4 losses with Brady as QB. The Colts have 8 wins with Manning at the helm, the Pats have 14 with Brady. The Colts have 1 SB, the Pats have 3.

    #2 - Tom Brady has never played on the same team as the 00' Ravens or the 85' Bears defenses, nor has any Pat D been ever compared to either of them. Brady has had the benefit of good defense but they are certainly not "one of the best to ever step onto the field". In fact, in the 2004 playoffs, the only game they let up less that 21 pts was against the Colts and Peyton Manning, who they held to 3 pts. Next, it baffles my mind how you can say you "watch" the games and don't think Brady is clutch. There is "less" pressure when the game is tied, come on!!!!!!!! Brady led his team to a comeback win down 13-3 going into the 4th against the Raiders in the divisional round in 2001. Then led his team down the field for the game winning field goal after the Rams had tied the game in the Superbowl. In 2003, the Pats went down 22-21 in the Superbowl to the Panthers, only to have Brady bring them down and score, and get the 2 pt conversion, only to have the Panthers comeback and tie the game at 29, to which Brady led the Pats down the field for another Vinitieri field goal.

    #3 - Peyton Manning has 4 MVP's not 5 first of all, and 1 SB, now if this is a team game like you eluded to I think 3 SBs, 4 SB appearances, and 1 MVP is more impressive.

    #4 - I dont watch the games, just look at the stats! I have watched Peyton choke time and time again with one of the best teams in the league! During Mannings tenure with the Colts, 5 times (2002 - 8th, 2003 - 11th, 2005 - 11th, 2007 - 3rd, 2008 - 11th) has he had a defense ranked in the top 11 in the league and not won anything.

    #5 - Peyton Manning had an infected bursa sac in his knee, Tom Brady tore his acl and mcl. Manning is a pocket passer give me a break, thats not playing injured, thats called being a man.

    #6 - Both the Pats and the Colts have always had middle of the road overall running attacks. But both teams throw the ball to their backs alot, difference is Manning has had much better backs. Manning has had the advantage of pass catching backs like Edge and Addai his whole carrier while Brady has Kevin Faulk and Sammy Morris.

    Wow I am tired of proving you wrong, I gotta get a beer!

     
    heeeeeh
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 8:20 PM ET #61

    Quote Originally Posted by allstarkc9:

    This may be the most ignorant post that I have ever read in my life. The fact that I had to highlight almost the whole thing is absolutely rediculous. I don't even know where to start. But I guess I will start at the top and work my way to the bottom.

    #1 - Now if you don't want to pin the losses as Manning's and as the Colts, that is fine with me. This is a team game and it does take 11 guys on each side of the ball to play it. But the Colts have 8 losses with Manning as QB, while the Pats have only 4 losses with Brady as QB. The Colts have 8 wins with Manning at the helm, the Pats have 14 with Brady. The Colts have 1 SB, the Pats have 3.

    #2 - Tom Brady has never played on the same team as the 00' Ravens or the 85' Bears defenses, nor has any Pat D been ever compared to either of them. Brady has had the benefit of good defense but they are certainly not "one of the best to ever step onto the field". In fact, in the 2004 playoffs, the only game they let up less that 21 pts was against the Colts and Peyton Manning, who they held to 3 pts. Next, it baffles my mind how you can say you "watch" the games and don't think Brady is clutch. There is "less" pressure when the game is tied, come on!!!!!!!! Brady led his team to a comeback win down 13-3 going into the 4th against the Raiders in the divisional round in 2001. Then led his team down the field for the game winning field goal after the Rams had tied the game in the Superbowl. In 2003, the Pats went down 22-21 in the Superbowl to the Panthers, only to have Brady bring them down and score, and get the 2 pt conversion, only to have the Panthers comeback and tie the game at 29, to which Brady led the Pats down the field for another Vinitieri field goal.

    #3 - Peyton Manning has 4 MVP's not 5 first of all, and 1 SB, now if this is a team game like you eluded to I think 3 SBs, 4 SB appearances, and 1 MVP is more impressive.

    #4 - I dont watch the games, just look at the stats! I have watched Peyton choke time and time again with one of the best teams in the league! During Mannings tenure with the Colts, 5 times (2002 - 8th, 2003 - 11th, 2005 - 11th, 2007 - 3rd, 2008 - 11th) has he had a defense ranked in the top 11 in the league and not won anything.

    #5 - Peyton Manning had an infected bursa sac in his knee, Tom Brady tore his acl and mcl. Manning is a pocket passer give me a break, thats not playing injured, thats called being a man.

    #6 - Both the Pats and the Colts have always had middle of the road overall running attacks. But both teams throw the ball to their backs alot, difference is Manning has had much better backs. Manning has had the advantage of pass catching backs like Edge and Addai his whole carrier while Brady has Kevin Faulk and Sammy Morris.

    Wow I am tired of proving you wrong, I gotta get a beer!



    Comeback against Raiders, lol more like the biggest bulll shit ever "tuck rule".

    Peyton has never had a running game an yet you bring up that the Colts have middle of the road running attacks Then you go on to name Addai and Edge, over Faulk and Morris. How about Corry Dillon? Do you remember him? IT doesnt matter which RB you have on the Colts, that O line can not open up holes for the running back as you see Addai is avg 3.8 ypc this year and 3.5 last yar. You can put Chris Johnson behind that line and he wouldn't do much better.

    You saw Peyton choke? Did you watch last years game vs the Chargers when the Colts D could not get a stop on 3rd down, When it was 3 and 10 late in the game and Rivers ran it for 11 yards? Or how about 2 years ago in the playoffs when Peyton threw for 400 yards and the Colts D let Billy Volek march down the field for a game leading TD. Then on 4th and 4 Dallas Clark drops an easy catch for a 1st down? Or during that same game when Harrison fumbled in the red zone or watch tipped a pass for a INT. I'm not making excuses just stating facts. Vanderjagt missing a 40yard FG vs the steelers?

    Yes Brady had a torn ACL but the reason people didn't think Peytons knee was a big deal was because Peyton didn't want to make a big deal out of it, because he is that type of player. He had to get his knee drained numerous times and had setbacks and yet he was ready for the 1st game, when he was supposed to miss atleast the 1st regular season game if not longer.

    I would take 3SB's as well but it can't happen if the players on the other side of the ball can't help you out. Fact of the matter is that Brady has always had one of the better defenses nd lets not mention spygate. We saw what Brady could do this year without a D, first round exit and got pounded by the team that the Colts beat handily. Brady is showing his true signs that he is just as average as Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikmen, QBs who benefited from great defenses and great teams but when really if they were on any other teams they wouldnt do jack shit, you can add big ben to that list.

    That fact that you say the Colts have a mediorce rushing attack proves you don't know anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by allstarkc9:

    This may be the most ignorant post that I have ever read in my life. The fact that I had to highlight almost the whole thing is absolutely rediculous. I don't even know where to start. But I guess I will start at the top and work my way to the bottom.

    #1 - Now if you don't want to pin the losses as Manning's and as the Colts, that is fine with me. This is a team game and it does take 11 guys on each side of the ball to play it. But the Colts have 8 losses with Manning as QB, while the Pats have only 4 losses with Brady as QB. The Colts have 8 wins with Manning at the helm, the Pats have 14 with Brady. The Colts have 1 SB, the Pats have 3.

    #2 - Tom Brady has never played on the same team as the 00' Ravens or the 85' Bears defenses, nor has any Pat D been ever compared to either of them. Brady has had the benefit of good defense but they are certainly not "one of the best to ever step onto the field". In fact, in the 2004 playoffs, the only game they let up less that 21 pts was against the Colts and Peyton Manning, who they held to 3 pts. Next, it baffles my mind how you can say you "watch" the games and don't think Brady is clutch. There is "less" pressure when the game is tied, come on!!!!!!!! Brady led his team to a comeback win down 13-3 going into the 4th against the Raiders in the divisional round in 2001. Then led his team down the field for the game winning field goal after the Rams had tied the game in the Superbowl. In 2003, the Pats went down 22-21 in the Superbowl to the Panthers, only to have Brady bring them down and score, and get the 2 pt conversion, only to have the Panthers comeback and tie the game at 29, to which Brady led the Pats down the field for another Vinitieri field goal.

    #3 - Peyton Manning has 4 MVP's not 5 first of all, and 1 SB, now if this is a team game like you eluded to I think 3 SBs, 4 SB appearances, and 1 MVP is more impressive.

    #4 - I dont watch the games, just look at the stats! I have watched Peyton choke time and time again with one of the best teams in the league! During Mannings tenure with the Colts, 5 times (2002 - 8th, 2003 - 11th, 2005 - 11th, 2007 - 3rd, 2008 - 11th) has he had a defense ranked in the top 11 in the league and not won anything.

    #5 - Peyton Manning had an infected bursa sac in his knee, Tom Brady tore his acl and mcl. Manning is a pocket passer give me a break, thats not playing injured, thats called being a man.

    #6 - Both the Pats and the Colts have always had middle of the road overall running attacks. But both teams throw the ball to their backs alot, difference is Manning has had much better backs. Manning has had the advantage of pass catching backs like Edge and Addai his whole carrier while Brady has Kevin Faulk and Sammy Morris.

    Wow I am tired of proving you wrong, I gotta get a beer!



    Comeback against Raiders, lol more like the biggest bulll shit ever "tuck rule".

    Peyton has never had a running game an yet you bring up that the Colts have middle of the road running attacks Then you go on to name Addai and Edge, over Faulk and Morris. How about Corry Dillon? Do you remember him? IT doesnt matter which RB you have on the Colts, that O line can not open up holes for the running back as you see Addai is avg 3.8 ypc this year and 3.5 last yar. You can put Chris Johnson behind that line and he wouldn't do much better.

    You saw Peyton choke? Did you watch last years game vs the Chargers when the Colts D could not get a stop on 3rd down, When it was 3 and 10 late in the game and Rivers ran it for 11 yards? Or how about 2 years ago in the playoffs when Peyton threw for 400 yards and the Colts D let Billy Volek march down the field for a game leading TD. Then on 4th and 4 Dallas Clark drops an easy catch for a 1st down? Or during that same game when Harrison fumbled in the red zone or watch tipped a pass for a INT. I'm not making excuses just stating facts. Vanderjagt missing a 40yard FG vs the steelers?

    Yes Brady had a torn ACL but the reason people didn't think Peytons knee was a big deal was because Peyton didn't want to make a big deal out of it, because he is that type of player. He had to get his knee drained numerous times and had setbacks and yet he was ready for the 1st game, when he was supposed to miss atleast the 1st regular season game if not longer.

    I would take 3SB's as well but it can't happen if the players on the other side of the ball can't help you out. Fact of the matter is that Brady has always had one of the better defenses nd lets not mention spygate. We saw what Brady could do this year without a D, first round exit and got pounded by the team that the Colts beat handily. Brady is showing his true signs that he is just as average as Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikmen, QBs who benefited from great defenses and great teams but when really if they were on any other teams they wouldnt do jack shit, you can add big ben to that list.

    That fact that you say the Colts have a mediorce rushing attack proves you don't know anything.
     
    benhogan76
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 8:33 PM ET #62

    Is the question to ask not if you put Brees on Indy this year and Manning on NO which one would still have great numbers and which team would still be #1 seed?  I like Brees and he has done great job but I dont think Indy is close to 1 seed with him. 

    I do find the Brady clutch comments a little funny, he is very good but has had alot around him.  Defense usually wins in the playoffs and he has had top defense in those years.  Also when rules are made up to win a game it doesnt hurt.

    Max Miller a great member of congress!
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    Is the question to ask not if you put Brees on Indy this year and Manning on NO which one would still have great numbers and which team would still be #1 seed?  I like Brees and he has done great job but I dont think Indy is close to 1 seed with him. 

    I do find the Brady clutch comments a little funny, he is very good but has had alot around him.  Defense usually wins in the playoffs and he has had top defense in those years.  Also when rules are made up to win a game it doesnt hurt.

     
    allstarkc9
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 8:46 PM ET #63

    Corey Dillon had one good year with the Pats and did nothing after. Your right, I dont know anything, I know everything apparently, because of the 7 seasons Edgerin James was with the Colts he rushed for over 1200 yards 5 times, had 4 seasons over 1500 yards, and 1 season over 1700 yards. Also, which I already established in my earlier post, the Colts like to throw to their running backs out of the backfield which sometimes might as well be a rush. That being said, James caught over 50 balls 5 times, over 60 3 times, and eclipsed the 2000 total yard mark in 3 of his 7 seasons.  Oh and Dominic Rhodes also rushed for over 1100 yards in 01. 

    Do you remember them? The fact that you think the Colts had a less than mediocre running game proves you dont know anything about your own team.

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    Corey Dillon had one good year with the Pats and did nothing after. Your right, I dont know anything, I know everything apparently, because of the 7 seasons Edgerin James was with the Colts he rushed for over 1200 yards 5 times, had 4 seasons over 1500 yards, and 1 season over 1700 yards. Also, which I already established in my earlier post, the Colts like to throw to their running backs out of the backfield which sometimes might as well be a rush. That being said, James caught over 50 balls 5 times, over 60 3 times, and eclipsed the 2000 total yard mark in 3 of his 7 seasons.  Oh and Dominic Rhodes also rushed for over 1100 yards in 01. 

    Do you remember them? The fact that you think the Colts had a less than mediocre running game proves you dont know anything about your own team.

     
    theclaw
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 9:08 PM ET #64

    Manning is no better than the other top QB's in the league, he just gets more hype and press because partly he says all the right things and the media loves guys like that.

    When he passes for 6 TD's against Detroit the media loves that, when he crashes and burns in the postseason the media excuses that.

    Rivers is a brass kinda guy and the media doesn't like that kinda guy.

    The world is all-about being political and the world of the NFL is no different.

    To say he doesn't have a running game is a bit misleading, they have no commitment to run because they don't want to run because Manning wants to pass more often.

    Also to say Manning didn't have a defense is again missleading, look at his losses in the postseason, the defense gave-up few points than they're season average it was the offense that crashed and burned, oh yes, let's not make excuses here for Manning, the offense was responsible for most of the losses scoring far, far below they're season average while the defense gave-up fewer points than they're season average.

     

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    Manning is no better than the other top QB's in the league, he just gets more hype and press because partly he says all the right things and the media loves guys like that.

    When he passes for 6 TD's against Detroit the media loves that, when he crashes and burns in the postseason the media excuses that.

    Rivers is a brass kinda guy and the media doesn't like that kinda guy.

    The world is all-about being political and the world of the NFL is no different.

    To say he doesn't have a running game is a bit misleading, they have no commitment to run because they don't want to run because Manning wants to pass more often.

    Also to say Manning didn't have a defense is again missleading, look at his losses in the postseason, the defense gave-up few points than they're season average it was the offense that crashed and burned, oh yes, let's not make excuses here for Manning, the offense was responsible for most of the losses scoring far, far below they're season average while the defense gave-up fewer points than they're season average.

     

     
    heeeeeh
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 9:33 PM ET #65

    Quote Originally Posted by allstarkc9:

    Corey Dillon had one good year with the Pats and did nothing after. Your right, I dont know anything, I know everything apparently, because of the 7 seasons Edgerin James was with the Colts he rushed for over 1200 yards 5 times, had 4 seasons over 1500 yards, and 1 season over 1700 yards. Also, which I already established in my earlier post, the Colts like to throw to their running backs out of the backfield which sometimes might as well be a rush. That being said, James caught over 50 balls 5 times, over 60 3 times, and eclipsed the 2000 total yard mark in 3 of his 7 seasons.  Oh and Dominic Rhodes also rushed for over 1100 yards in 01. 

    Do you remember them? The fact that you think the Colts had a less than mediocre running game proves you dont know anything about your own team.



    They're not my team, I am just pointing out why Peyton should get the MVP the last two years. With their running game being ranked bottom 2 the last 2 years, its pretty amazing where Peyton has got them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by allstarkc9:

    Corey Dillon had one good year with the Pats and did nothing after. Your right, I dont know anything, I know everything apparently, because of the 7 seasons Edgerin James was with the Colts he rushed for over 1200 yards 5 times, had 4 seasons over 1500 yards, and 1 season over 1700 yards. Also, which I already established in my earlier post, the Colts like to throw to their running backs out of the backfield which sometimes might as well be a rush. That being said, James caught over 50 balls 5 times, over 60 3 times, and eclipsed the 2000 total yard mark in 3 of his 7 seasons.  Oh and Dominic Rhodes also rushed for over 1100 yards in 01. 

    Do you remember them? The fact that you think the Colts had a less than mediocre running game proves you dont know anything about your own team.



    They're not my team, I am just pointing out why Peyton should get the MVP the last two years. With their running game being ranked bottom 2 the last 2 years, its pretty amazing where Peyton has got them.
     
    vvryan11
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    Posted: Jan. 20, 2010 - 10:06 PM ET #66

    MVP Most Valuable Player... Most Valuable Player.  These awards aren't based on stats.  Sure tons of guys had a great year but Peyton was the QB on the best team in the league (record-wise if nothing else).  Some people will always hate him but you can't deny that he is the most valuable player in the league.  Colts were supposed to have a down year because Dungy left.... well guess what they ran off 14 straight before their QB/Offensive coordinator sat out.  And whoever said Big Ben is better that #18 is a few fries short of a happy meal.
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    MVP Most Valuable Player... Most Valuable Player.  These awards aren't based on stats.  Sure tons of guys had a great year but Peyton was the QB on the best team in the league (record-wise if nothing else).  Some people will always hate him but you can't deny that he is the most valuable player in the league.  Colts were supposed to have a down year because Dungy left.... well guess what they ran off 14 straight before their QB/Offensive coordinator sat out.  And whoever said Big Ben is better that #18 is a few fries short of a happy meal.
     
    fel2718
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    Posted: Jan. 21, 2010 - 12:15 AM ET #67

    Quote Originally Posted by theclaw:

    Manning is no better than the other top QB's in the league, he just gets more hype and press because partly he says all the right things and the media loves guys like that.

    When he passes for 6 TD's against Detroit the media loves that, when he crashes and burns in the postseason the media excuses that.

    Rivers is a brass kinda guy and the media doesn't like that kinda guy.

    The world is all-about being political and the world of the NFL is no different.

    To say he doesn't have a running game is a bit misleading, they have no commitment to run because they don't want to run because Manning wants to pass more often.

    Also to say Manning didn't have a defense is again missleading, look at his losses in the postseason, the defense gave-up few points than they're season average it was the offense that crashed and burned, oh yes, let's not make excuses here for Manning, the offense was responsible for most of the losses scoring far, far below they're season average while the defense gave-up fewer points than they're season average.

     



    Do you not realize he is on pace to break every QB record?  How can you say he is no better, I mean I can deal with someone who thinks Brady is better then Manning, I think they are 2 of the best QB's of all time and there really is no way to determine who the best ever is.

    If Manning can get another ring along with breaking every QB record he'll probably have definitive reason to be the best.  But still I can't believe that, do you really think that he's not better then the rest of the other QB's?  So you would take Rivers over Manning next year if he kept his ego in check?  You bring up the playoffs and then say Rivers could be regarded as the best QB in the league if he didn't run his mouth?

    What does Brees or Brady say to the media that is so different that takes this distinction away from them, riddle me that!  Are Brees and Brady mean to the media?? I have never seen any of them say the wrong thing...that comment has 0 credibility, I don't even understand it.

    The Colts have averaged the least yards per carry the last 2 years too, so it's not about just the carries.

    Something I also didn't see mentioned in this thread is his ability to read defenses and the fact that he runs his offense.  He's basically been the only QB who calls his own plays and he's amazing at it.  He calls plays at the line and puts in more effort then many of the other players in the league.

    Have you ever watched a football game, that is the quesion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by theclaw:

    Manning is no better than the other top QB's in the league, he just gets more hype and press because partly he says all the right things and the media loves guys like that.

    When he passes for 6 TD's against Detroit the media loves that, when he crashes and burns in the postseason the media excuses that.

    Rivers is a brass kinda guy and the media doesn't like that kinda guy.

    The world is all-about being political and the world of the NFL is no different.

    To say he doesn't have a running game is a bit misleading, they have no commitment to run because they don't want to run because Manning wants to pass more often.

    Also to say Manning didn't have a defense is again missleading, look at his losses in the postseason, the defense gave-up few points than they're season average it was the offense that crashed and burned, oh yes, let's not make excuses here for Manning, the offense was responsible for most of the losses scoring far, far below they're season average while the defense gave-up fewer points than they're season average.

     



    Do you not realize he is on pace to break every QB record?  How can you say he is no better, I mean I can deal with someone who thinks Brady is better then Manning, I think they are 2 of the best QB's of all time and there really is no way to determine who the best ever is.

    If Manning can get another ring along with breaking every QB record he'll probably have definitive reason to be the best.  But still I can't believe that, do you really think that he's not better then the rest of the other QB's?  So you would take Rivers over Manning next year if he kept his ego in check?  You bring up the playoffs and then say Rivers could be regarded as the best QB in the league if he didn't run his mouth?

    What does Brees or Brady say to the media that is so different that takes this distinction away from them, riddle me that!  Are Brees and Brady mean to the media?? I have never seen any of them say the wrong thing...that comment has 0 credibility, I don't even understand it.

    The Colts have averaged the least yards per carry the last 2 years too, so it's not about just the carries.

    Something I also didn't see mentioned in this thread is his ability to read defenses and the fact that he runs his offense.  He's basically been the only QB who calls his own plays and he's amazing at it.  He calls plays at the line and puts in more effort then many of the other players in the league.

    Have you ever watched a football game, that is the quesion?
     
    fel2718
    fel2718
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    Posted: Jan. 21, 2010 - 12:17 AM ET #68

    Also he has was known as a 'choke artist' after he lost playoff games and if anything the media ripped him more then other players when he lost...I really wonder where you get your ideas from.
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    Also he has was known as a 'choke artist' after he lost playoff games and if anything the media ripped him more then other players when he lost...I really wonder where you get your ideas from.
     
    SteelCash
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Jan. 21, 2010 - 12:26 AM ET #69

    Attention allstarkc9...

    heeeeh is an idiot.  I've already had discussions with him in other threads.  It's pointless.  Trust me.

     

     

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    Attention allstarkc9...

    heeeeh is an idiot.  I've already had discussions with him in other threads.  It's pointless.  Trust me.

     

     

     
    johnnywad
    johnnywad
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    Posted: Jan. 21, 2010 - 12:59 AM ET #70

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    johnnywad
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    Posted: Jan. 21, 2010 - 1:00 AM ET #71

    [Quote: Originally Posted by johnnywad]

     

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    [Quote: Originally Posted by johnnywad]

     

     
    daveyt25
    daveyt25
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    Posted: Jan. 23, 2010 - 7:38 PM ET #72

    I am sticking to my point..You take Manning away from that Colts team and they win 5 or 6 games a year..You take away Ben or Brady or Favre and the teams stay a float IMO
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    I am sticking to my point..You take Manning away from that Colts team and they win 5 or 6 games a year..You take away Ben or Brady or Favre and the teams stay a float IMO
     
    JimMack6
    JimMack6
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    Posted: Jan. 23, 2010 - 9:04 PM ET #73

    The Steelers were 9-7 this year and you think they would've stayed afloat without Ben? 
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    The Steelers were 9-7 this year and you think they would've stayed afloat without Ben? 
     
    DANE_COOK
    DANE_COOK
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    Posted: Jan. 23, 2010 - 10:04 PM ET #74

    MVP awards are for fan consumption and are meaningless.
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    MVP awards are for fan consumption and are meaningless.
     
     
    Killer_B
    Killer_B
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    Posted: Jan. 23, 2010 - 11:08 PM ET #75

    He's the Golden Boy of the NFL. Even his brother is put on a pedestal and he's really a stiff. He makes the special treatment granted to Michael Jordan seem trivial. I see the Colts as the best money line bet in the history of football tomorrow. There is no way he doesn't get to the Super Bowl. Pay special attention to the calls if the game is close or the Colts are behind. It's a disgrace to the NFL because he doesn't need any help. If you need evidence watch the Houston game this year. Houston was up 20-7 and the refs gift wrapped 2 p.i.'s on the same drive to make sure the Colts closed the gap and of course won the game.
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    He's the Golden Boy of the NFL. Even his brother is put on a pedestal and he's really a stiff. He makes the special treatment granted to Michael Jordan seem trivial. I see the Colts as the best money line bet in the history of football tomorrow. There is no way he doesn't get to the Super Bowl. Pay special attention to the calls if the game is close or the Colts are behind. It's a disgrace to the NFL because he doesn't need any help. If you need evidence watch the Houston game this year. Houston was up 20-7 and the refs gift wrapped 2 p.i.'s on the same drive to make sure the Colts closed the gap and of course won the game.
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