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    All Forums | Investments

    Own DWTI (3x inverse oil) and smile this week

    BountyHunt
    EndTheFed
    mainman11111
    Rush51
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    BountyHunt
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    Posted: Jan. 30, 2016 - 4:39 PM ET #1

    It seems like oil spiked 25% off the lows on speculation that there may be "talks" to "possibly" discuss production cut backs.  If it were as simple as a talk, it would have happened 1yr ago. Oil will dip back into 20s.

    DWTI is currently $244 and it was $365 when oil was $30 (and it peaked at $465 when oil dipped to $27).  This ETF is volatile but a good opportunity for a big up swing.

    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    It seems like oil spiked 25% off the lows on speculation that there may be "talks" to "possibly" discuss production cut backs.  If it were as simple as a talk, it would have happened 1yr ago. Oil will dip back into 20s.

    DWTI is currently $244 and it was $365 when oil was $30 (and it peaked at $465 when oil dipped to $27).  This ETF is volatile but a good opportunity for a big up swing.

     
    EndTheFed
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    Posted: Jan. 31, 2016 - 3:55 PM ET #2

    I believe the spike was on FORCED short covering by the late-to-the-trade retail shorts. I would only be interested if oil gapped up above $35 and I could snag some DWTI at more of a discount... that "story" floated by the media has been proved false now, so we may see it continue to bleed lower... gotta play it by ear.

    GL though

    Reply

    I believe the spike was on FORCED short covering by the late-to-the-trade retail shorts. I would only be interested if oil gapped up above $35 and I could snag some DWTI at more of a discount... that "story" floated by the media has been proved false now, so we may see it continue to bleed lower... gotta play it by ear.

    GL though

     
    mainman11111
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    Posted: Feb. 1, 2016 - 11:27 AM ET #3

    14% today.... dammmmmn

    scary though might be a good sell today or 2maro
    Reply
    14% today.... dammmmmn

    scary though might be a good sell today or 2maro
     
    EndTheFed
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    Posted: Feb. 1, 2016 - 11:18 PM ET #4

    Bounty

    way to go bud... oil is down again overnite, US futures are lobster red too... if oil tests $20 that sucker could double from here!

    Reply

    Bounty

    way to go bud... oil is down again overnite, US futures are lobster red too... if oil tests $20 that sucker could double from here!

     
    EndTheFed
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2016 - 2:03 PM ET #5

    another 11% today so far... shrewd boss, shrewd...

    Reply

    another 11% today so far... shrewd boss, shrewd...

     
    BountyHunt
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2016 - 10:52 PM ET #6

    Last Wed I originally bought in for $310 and doubled my position at Fri morning at $230 (so my average was $260).  Today I sold half my shares for $324 (20% gain).

    I don't want to get greedy but I think it could creep over $400 if oil slips into the $28s.

    I have a bigger position in HED.TO which is also an anti-oil ETF but it doesn't fluctuate as much. Unfortunately my average price was $23.10 so I am about even on that one...for now.

    Reply

    Last Wed I originally bought in for $310 and doubled my position at Fri morning at $230 (so my average was $260).  Today I sold half my shares for $324 (20% gain).

    I don't want to get greedy but I think it could creep over $400 if oil slips into the $28s.

    I have a bigger position in HED.TO which is also an anti-oil ETF but it doesn't fluctuate as much. Unfortunately my average price was $23.10 so I am about even on that one...for now.

     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Feb. 5, 2016 - 11:41 PM ET #7

    You're Even for now ? ..  Not good considering how well you've time your previous bet... but it all averages out I guess.

     You'd be better off buying an oil company at these levels and sitting on your investment (and get paid a dividend).    Where do you think oil will be in 2-3 years.  ($30 ?)

     

     

    Reply

    You're Even for now ? ..  Not good considering how well you've time your previous bet... but it all averages out I guess.

     You'd be better off buying an oil company at these levels and sitting on your investment (and get paid a dividend).    Where do you think oil will be in 2-3 years.  ($30 ?)

     

     

     
    EndTheFed
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    Posted: Feb. 6, 2016 - 5:00 PM ET #8

    that's decent advice Rush (cheers buddy) -- while I don't expect MOST of the oil majors to end their downtrends until the scale and scope of the coming defaults in shale co's and bank exposure to become known and discounted, it's not unwise to begin nibbling at your favorite companies in the energy space -- just realize that those dividends are not entirely safe and that the discounting of your principle (stock falling further) might not be made up by the divvy.

    I believe that miners and especially gold mining stocks are the best value BY FAR in the market. My picks are GG and AGI, we recently began snapping up GG below $10 (very briefly) and have been adding on weakness since... AGI is a cheaper spec junior but it could outperform the bigger diggers shorter term.

    Reply

    that's decent advice Rush (cheers buddy) -- while I don't expect MOST of the oil majors to end their downtrends until the scale and scope of the coming defaults in shale co's and bank exposure to become known and discounted, it's not unwise to begin nibbling at your favorite companies in the energy space -- just realize that those dividends are not entirely safe and that the discounting of your principle (stock falling further) might not be made up by the divvy.

    I believe that miners and especially gold mining stocks are the best value BY FAR in the market. My picks are GG and AGI, we recently began snapping up GG below $10 (very briefly) and have been adding on weakness since... AGI is a cheaper spec junior but it could outperform the bigger diggers shorter term.

     
    EndTheFed
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    Posted: Feb. 6, 2016 - 5:04 PM ET #9

    to with Rush, here's a taste of how overleveraged even a major oil company got, and subsequently had to unwind:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-06/folly-ages-after-buying-back-63-million-shares-83-hess-just-sold-25-million-shares-3

    buyer beware!

    Reply

    to with Rush, here's a taste of how overleveraged even a major oil company got, and subsequently had to unwind:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-06/folly-ages-after-buying-back-63-million-shares-83-hess-just-sold-25-million-shares-3

    buyer beware!

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Feb. 6, 2016 - 7:49 PM ET #10

    How can you buy a gold miner when the price of gold has not cratered nearly in the way oil has, and gold is still in a bullish long term uptrend?

    The drop in oil from 100 to 30 would be comparable to gold going from 1800 to 540..

    Yet the price for miners is similar to the drop in oil companies, what does that tell you?

    No way would I buy a gold miner, especially if the drop in the share price is greater than the drop in the commodity itself.
    Reply
    How can you buy a gold miner when the price of gold has not cratered nearly in the way oil has, and gold is still in a bullish long term uptrend?

    The drop in oil from 100 to 30 would be comparable to gold going from 1800 to 540..

    Yet the price for miners is similar to the drop in oil companies, what does that tell you?

    No way would I buy a gold miner, especially if the drop in the share price is greater than the drop in the commodity itself.
     
    BountyHunt
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    Posted: Feb. 6, 2016 - 8:34 PM ET #11

    I sold the rest of my DWTI for $278 for a small profit.  I'd kick myself next week if it hits $380 but I still have my HED.TO.  I will stick to mostly cash for now. I dodged a few bullets by selling off my AAPL, SBUX, and UA in the first week of Jan.
    Reply
    I sold the rest of my DWTI for $278 for a small profit.  I'd kick myself next week if it hits $380 but I still have my HED.TO.  I will stick to mostly cash for now. I dodged a few bullets by selling off my AAPL, SBUX, and UA in the first week of Jan.
     
    EndTheFed
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    Posted: Feb. 7, 2016 - 10:23 AM ET #12

    wallstreetcappers -- YES -- ask yourself why gold hasn't plunged the way oil has -- in terms of US dollars. Then go do some homework regarding global systemic risk, world currency (fiat) inflation, and what the true "risk-off" trade would look like if gold were allowed to seek its true value with regard to demand instead of what paper contracts fetch at the Comex (read: Crimex)... then go see where gold trades in all 48 currencies; you will find that in 8-9 currencies gold is back at all time highs. Check historical crude to gold ratios too.

    Miners have traded below book for too long, and gold's chart is a beautiful rounding bottom. Look for a breakout above 1195 soon, the shiny stuff has already seen about a 50% retracement from the 2011 highs to the 2015 lows. Premiums for physical Au and Ag for that matter are well above spot, look for the US mint to discontinue their coining and sale of silver eagles this year.

    Reply

    wallstreetcappers -- YES -- ask yourself why gold hasn't plunged the way oil has -- in terms of US dollars. Then go do some homework regarding global systemic risk, world currency (fiat) inflation, and what the true "risk-off" trade would look like if gold were allowed to seek its true value with regard to demand instead of what paper contracts fetch at the Comex (read: Crimex)... then go see where gold trades in all 48 currencies; you will find that in 8-9 currencies gold is back at all time highs. Check historical crude to gold ratios too.

    Miners have traded below book for too long, and gold's chart is a beautiful rounding bottom. Look for a breakout above 1195 soon, the shiny stuff has already seen about a 50% retracement from the 2011 highs to the 2015 lows. Premiums for physical Au and Ag for that matter are well above spot, look for the US mint to discontinue their coining and sale of silver eagles this year.

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Feb. 7, 2016 - 12:31 PM ET #13

    You dont get it.

    I am taking about owning shares of stock, not gold. I dont care if gold has a shiny bottom or that it is backed on X currencies..to me it is much more simple than all this.

    Gold is a hedge on inflation, it is also a counter risk asset when other classes are at risk..all the rest of supply and JP Morgan and backed by currencies and blah blah blah are just wasted noise to me.

    Gold goes up with inflation, down with deflation...gold goes up when risk assets go down, it goes down when risk assets are going up. There is a correlation that exists and will always exist.

    My comment was about gold miners, why purchase them when they have not gone down to the degree that the underlying asset has? Gold margins for producers isnt at rock bottom, it has still been set in a bull trend for multiple decades..there is no value in buying a gold miner given current market conditions. If a gold miner isnt surviving and business is not strong given the lack of supply and margins, then why would you want to own it at all?

    I compared oil and gold because of purchasing shares of stocks involved with each commodity. Oil shares are down because of the drop in oil, if you think this multi year drop in oil will reverse, there are many shares which are down MORE than the commodity because of leverage or exposure. I consider value purchasing when an asset is at discount prices and the opportunity exists for a strong return given the risk.

    Gold has not dropped that much, so if you are buying shares of a company in the business of mining a commodity that hasnt dropped much but the STOCK has dropped, there is a big problem doing this and the odds of success are much lower. 

    I'd consider gold miners and the commodity if gold got to 700..until then it will still be considered in a multi decade bull trend.
    Reply
    You dont get it.

    I am taking about owning shares of stock, not gold. I dont care if gold has a shiny bottom or that it is backed on X currencies..to me it is much more simple than all this.

    Gold is a hedge on inflation, it is also a counter risk asset when other classes are at risk..all the rest of supply and JP Morgan and backed by currencies and blah blah blah are just wasted noise to me.

    Gold goes up with inflation, down with deflation...gold goes up when risk assets go down, it goes down when risk assets are going up. There is a correlation that exists and will always exist.

    My comment was about gold miners, why purchase them when they have not gone down to the degree that the underlying asset has? Gold margins for producers isnt at rock bottom, it has still been set in a bull trend for multiple decades..there is no value in buying a gold miner given current market conditions. If a gold miner isnt surviving and business is not strong given the lack of supply and margins, then why would you want to own it at all?

    I compared oil and gold because of purchasing shares of stocks involved with each commodity. Oil shares are down because of the drop in oil, if you think this multi year drop in oil will reverse, there are many shares which are down MORE than the commodity because of leverage or exposure. I consider value purchasing when an asset is at discount prices and the opportunity exists for a strong return given the risk.

    Gold has not dropped that much, so if you are buying shares of a company in the business of mining a commodity that hasnt dropped much but the STOCK has dropped, there is a big problem doing this and the odds of success are much lower. 

    I'd consider gold miners and the commodity if gold got to 700..until then it will still be considered in a multi decade bull trend.
     
    BountyHunt
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    Posted: Feb. 22, 2016 - 3:03 PM ET #14

    I missed big profits last week by being on the sidelines when DWTI jumped to $385 (like I had predicted), but at least I was able to dump my HED.TO during that spike.

    Today I bought back in to DWTI for $231. I am hoping that oil volatility continues (weekly $32 to $28 swings) so I can make a quick 10-20% and get out.

    Reply

    I missed big profits last week by being on the sidelines when DWTI jumped to $385 (like I had predicted), but at least I was able to dump my HED.TO during that spike.

    Today I bought back in to DWTI for $231. I am hoping that oil volatility continues (weekly $32 to $28 swings) so I can make a quick 10-20% and get out.

     
    BountyHunt
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    Posted: Feb. 23, 2016 - 3:57 PM ET #15

    I cant get greedy...I just sold for $268.45 for a 14.5% gain in 1 day.

    Reply

    I cant get greedy...I just sold for $268.45 for a 14.5% gain in 1 day.

     
     
    cashbb1030
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    Posted: Feb. 27, 2016 - 4:44 AM ET #16

    what is dwti   

    Reply
    what is dwti   

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