• Forums
  • Best Betting Sites
  • Sportsbook Promos
  • Best Sports Betting Apps
  • NFL Betting Forum
  • NBA Betting Forum
  • MLB Betting Forum
  • NHL Betting Forum
  • NCAAF Betting Forum
  • NCAAB Betting Forum
  • Soccer Betting Forum
  • Tennis Betting Forum
  • General Discussion
  • Help Forum
  • Guidelines
  • FAQ
  • Forum Updates
    Covers Logo
    Covers App
    Faster picks. Smarter bets.
    All in the NEW Covers App
    Download on the App Store Download on the Google Play Store
    • Sports
      • NFL
        • Back
        • NFL
        • NFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NFL Picks
        • NFL Prediction Prices
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NCAAF
        • Back
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAF Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NCAAF Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NBA
        • Back
        • NBA
        • NBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • NCAAB
        • Back
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • NCAAB Picks
        • Injuries
      • MLB
        • Back
        • MLB
        • MLB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • MLB Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NHL
        • Back
        • NHL
        • NHL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NHL Picks
        • Injuries
      • Soccer
      • UFC
        • Back
        • UFC
        • Odds
        • Picks
        • News & Analysis
      • WNBA
        • Back
        • WNBA
        • WNBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • WNBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • CFL
        • Back
        • CFL
        • CFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • CFL Picks
      • Golf
        • Back
        • Golf
        • Golf Home
        • Golf Odds
        • Masters Odds
        • PGA Championship Odds
        • US Open Odds
        • British Open Odds
        • Ryder Cup Odds
        • Golf Picks
    • Odds
      • All Odds
      • NFL
      • NCAAF
      • NBA
      • NCAAB
      • MLB
      • NHL
      • Golf
      • Soccer Odds
        • Back
        • Soccer Odds
        • MLS Odds
        • Champions League Odds
        • Premier League Odds
      • UFC
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • Election Odds
      • Futures
        • Back
        • Futures
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • MLB
        • NHL
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAF
      • Sports Odds History
      • Politics
        • Back
        • Politics
        • Politics Home
        • Presidential Election Odds
        • Midterm Election Odds
        • House Midterm Odds
        • Senate Midterm Odds
        • Texas Midterm Odds
        • Michigan Midterm Odds
    • Picks
      • All Picks
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • NHL
      • MLB
      • NCAAF
      • NCAAB
      • UFC
      • Golf
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • User Picks
      • Team User Picks
      • Consensus Picks
        • Back
        • Consensus Picks
        • All Consensus Picks
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • NHL
        • MLB
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAB
        • CFL
        • WNBA
        • Consensus FAQ
        • Public Money
    • Prop Projections
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • MLB
      • NHL
    • Betting
      • US Betting Sites
      • Canada Betting Sites
      • Sportsbook Reviews
      • States
        • Back
        • States
        • US Legal Tracker
        • Revenue Tracker
        • Arizona
        • Arkansas
        • California
        • Colorado
        • Connecticut
        • DC
        • Florida
        • Georgia
        • Illinois
        • Indiana
        • Iowa
        • Kansas
        • Kentucky
        • Louisiana
        • Maine
        • Maryland
        • Massachusetts
        • Michigan
        • Mississippi
        • Missouri
        • Nevada
        • New Hampshire
        • New Jersey
        • New York
        • North Carolina
        • Ohio
        • Oregon
        • Pennsylvania
        • Tennessee
        • Texas
        • Vermont
        • Virginia
        • West Virginia
        • Wyoming
      • Provinces
        • Back
        • Provinces
        • Alberta
        • British Columbia
        • Manitoba
        • New Brunswick
        • Newfoundland and Labrador
        • Northwest Territories
        • Nova Scotia
        • Nunavut
        • Ontario
        • Prince Edward Island
        • Quebec (English)
        • Quebec (francais)
        • Saskatchewan
        • Yukon
      • By Sport
        • Back
        • By Sport
        • Baseball
        • Basketball
        • Boxing
        • College Football
        • F1
        • Football
        • Super Bowl
        • Golf
        • Hockey
        • Horse Racing
        • March Madness
        • Soccer
        • UFC
        • World Cup
      • Betting Apps
        • Back
        • Betting Apps
        • Best Sports Betting Apps USA
        • Ontario Sports Betting Apps
      • Rest of World
        • Back
        • Rest of World
        • UK Betting Offers
          • Back
          • UK Betting Offers
          • UK Betting Sites
          • bet365 Bonus Code UK
          • 888Sport Promo Code UK
          • William Hill Sign up Offer
          • Betway Sign up Offer
          • BetVictor Bonus Code UK
      • Betting Guides
        • Back
        • Betting Guides
        • All Guides
        • Glossary
        • Betting Calculators
          • Back
          • Betting Calculators
          • Odds Converter
          • Parlay Calculator
        • Futures Betting Guide
        • Moneyline Betting Guide
        • Over/Under Betting Guide
        • Parlay Betting Guide
        • Point Spread Betting Guide
        • Prop Betting Guide
        • Sports Betting Guides
          • Back
          • Sports Betting Guides
          • How To Bet On Sports Guide
          • NFL Betting Guide
          • NHL Betting Guide
          • NBA Betting Guide
          • MLB Betting Guide
          • NCAAB Betting Guide
          • NCAAF Betting Guide
          • Golf Betting Guide
          • Tennis Betting Guide
        • Teaser Betting Guide
      • Betting News
        • Back
        • Betting News
        • All News
        • Industry News
        • Podcasts
        • Covers Videos
        • Covers Writers
        • Offers & Boosts
    • Promos
      • Sportsbook Promos
      • Canada Sportsbook Promos
      • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • bet365 Bonus Code
        • BET99 Promo Code
        • BetMGM Bonus Code
        • BetRivers Bonus Code
        • Caesars Sportsbook Promo
        • DraftKings Promo Code
        • Fanatics Sportsbook Promo
        • FanDuel Promo Code
        • Hard Rock Bet Promo Code
        • Sports Interaction Promo
        • Stake Promo Code
        • theScore Bet Promo Code
        • TonyBet Promo Code
      • Bonuses By Region
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Region
        • Arkansas Promos
        • Arizona Promos
        • Colorado Promos
        • Connecticut Promos
        • DC Promos
        • Illinois Promos
        • Indiana Promos
        • Iowa Promos
        • Kansas Promos
        • Kentucky Promos
        • Louisiana Promos
        • Maine Promos
        • Maryland Promos
        • Massachusetts Promos
        • Michigan Promos
        • Missouri Promos
        • New Jersey Promos
        • New York Promos
        • North Carolina Promos
        • Ohio Promos
        • Pennsylvania Promos
        • Tennessee Promos
        • Vermont Promos
        • Virginia Promos
        • West Virginia Promos
        • Wyoming Promos
    • Forum & Contests
      • All Forums
      • NFL Betting Forum
      • MLB Betting Forum
      • NCAAB Betting Forum
      • NCAAF Betting Forum
      • NBA Betting Forum
      • NHL Betting Forum
      • Soccer Betting Forum
      • Contests
        • Back
        • Contests
        • Contests Home
        • Streak Survivor
        • King of Covers
        • My Contests
    • Casino
      • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Back
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes No-Deposit Bonuses
        • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Back
          • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Crown Coins Promo Code
          • FreeSpin Casino Promo Code
          • Jackpota Promo Code
          • LoneStar Promo Code
          • McLuck Promo Code
          • NoLimitCoins Promo Code
          • Rainbet.us Promo Code
          • RealPrize Promo Code
          • Splash Coins Promo Code
          • Stake.us Promo Code
      • US Casinos
        • Back
        • US Casinos
        • US Online Casinos
        • US Online Casino Bonuses
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • bet365 Casino Promo Code
          • BetMGM Casino Promo Code
          • BetRivers Casino Promo
          • Borgata Casino Bonus Code
          • Caesars Casino Bonus Code
          • DraftKings Casino Promo
          • Fanatics Casino Promo
          • FanDuel Casino Promo Code
          • Golden Nugget Casino Promo
          • Hard Rock Bet Casino Promo
          • Hollywood Casino Promo Code
      • Canada Casinos
        • Back
        • Canada Casinos
        • Canada Online Casinos
        • Provinces
          • Back
          • Provinces
          • Alberta Online Casino
          • BC Online Casino
          • Ontario Online Casinos
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • 7Bit Promo Code
          • BC.GAME Bonus Code
          • BitStarz Promo Code
          • Jack Casino Promo Code
          • JackpotCity Promo Code
          • Rainbet Promo Code
          • Roobet Promo Code
          • Shuffle Promo Code
          • Spin Casino Promo Code
          • TonyBet Casino Bonus Code
    • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Market Apps
      • Prediction Market Promos
      • Kalshi Promo Code
      • Kalshi Referral Code
      • Polymarket Promo Code
      • Polymarket Referral Code
      • FanDuel Predicts Promo Code
      • Gemini Predictions Promo Code
      • Novig Promo Code
      • Underdog Promo Code
      • ProphetX Promo Code
      • OG Promo Code
      • Plus500 Promo Code
      • Betr Promo Code
      • DraftKings Predictions Promo Code
      • Fanatics Markets Promo Code
    • NFL Week 10
      NFL Week 10
      • NFL Odds
      • NFL Picks
      • Commanders-Giants Picks
      • Week 10 Survivor Picks
      • NFL Prediction Markets
      • NFL Betting Sites
    Covers Account
    Log in Create account
    Join free Log in
    All Forums | Investments

    Counter Measures For Bear Market.........

    DiverRon
    wallstreetcappers
    thorpe
    Fire_Control
    SashimiKid
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 907
    Posts: 25
     
    DiverRon
    DiverRon
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2008
    Posts: 3837
    Posted: Nov. 24, 2014 - 10:43 PM ET #1

    Hi all,

    Put any ideas here for countermeasures when the market tanks.

    Will happen sooner or later. Not sure when.

     

    1.) Puts on the S&P for a minor fraction of portfolio
    2.) Sell and go into cash
    3.) Bond index funds

    A few ideas...Give me some if you'd like!

    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    Hi all,

    Put any ideas here for countermeasures when the market tanks.

    Will happen sooner or later. Not sure when.

     

    1.) Puts on the S&P for a minor fraction of portfolio
    2.) Sell and go into cash
    3.) Bond index funds

    A few ideas...Give me some if you'd like!

     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Nov. 24, 2014 - 10:48 PM ET #2

    Id say 1 or 2...not 3.

    Bond funds way down here, I dont see them as protection at rates this low.

    This market has gone straight up for how many years now? I am almost under the impression it will never go down again.

    Reply
    Id say 1 or 2...not 3.

    Bond funds way down here, I dont see them as protection at rates this low.

    This market has gone straight up for how many years now? I am almost under the impression it will never go down again.

     
    thorpe
    thorpe
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2002
    Posts: 12927
    Posted: Nov. 25, 2014 - 2:25 PM ET #3

    Yes, it will happen sooner or later, but what if the market goes up another 25% before it goes down 15%?  If you try to "time" the market it is easy to get burned, or to find yourself on the sidelines for a huge rally because you think the market is overinflated.

    Reply
    Yes, it will happen sooner or later, but what if the market goes up another 25% before it goes down 15%?  If you try to "time" the market it is easy to get burned, or to find yourself on the sidelines for a huge rally because you think the market is overinflated.

     
    Fire_Control
    Fire_Control
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2009
    Posts: 922
    Posted: Nov. 25, 2014 - 7:31 PM ET #4

    Vix call options a year out. Maybe uvxy.

    Reply

    Vix call options a year out. Maybe uvxy.

     
    SashimiKid
    SashimiKid
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2009
    Posts: 2090
    Posted: Nov. 27, 2014 - 10:51 AM ET #5

    Yep options on tvix and uvxy would offer protection
    Reply
    Yep options on tvix and uvxy would offer protection
     
    Rush51
    Rush51
    Covers Rehab
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2005
    Posts: 8856
    Posted: Nov. 28, 2014 - 5:10 AM ET #6

    As Wall eluded to , this market has gone almost straight up since the March 2009 lows.  Hardly a 10% correction to speak of, and when it has closely occurred, the market snaps  right back up.  Very difficult for folks who have been waiting for an entry point, so they just buy in at any price now.

    An amazing stat that came out recently  ; Since the October shock of just last month , the market has traded above its 5-day moving average for some 30 days in a row. 

    That hasn't happened since the 1920's !! 

     

    Reply

    As Wall eluded to , this market has gone almost straight up since the March 2009 lows.  Hardly a 10% correction to speak of, and when it has closely occurred, the market snaps  right back up.  Very difficult for folks who have been waiting for an entry point, so they just buy in at any price now.

    An amazing stat that came out recently  ; Since the October shock of just last month , the market has traded above its 5-day moving average for some 30 days in a row. 

    That hasn't happened since the 1920's !! 

     

     
    SashimiKid
    SashimiKid
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2009
    Posts: 2090
    Posted: Nov. 28, 2014 - 4:43 PM ET #7

    The drastic reduction in fuel prices is going to boom the economy--even Obama/EPA cant stop this train coming down the tracks--bears will have to be prudent and pick their spots wisely
    Reply
    The drastic reduction in fuel prices is going to boom the economy--even Obama/EPA cant stop this train coming down the tracks--bears will have to be prudent and pick their spots wisely
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Nov. 28, 2014 - 5:44 PM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by SashimiKid:

    The drastic reduction in fuel prices is going to boom the economy--even Obama/EPA cant stop this train coming down the tracks--bears will have to be prudent and pick their spots wisely

    It does not work that way...the gain for one group is the pain of another. As oil drops like this, the shale producers and general oil drillers and refiners are going to get hurt..and that is a big piece of this economy.

    Also our currency is getting super strong and that will hurt exports, and even though it might help foreign imports, that does not really weigh heavy on GDP.

    There is also no signs of wage growth, no inflation and to me the central banks are pumping our markets but that does not translate to actual growth.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SashimiKid:

    The drastic reduction in fuel prices is going to boom the economy--even Obama/EPA cant stop this train coming down the tracks--bears will have to be prudent and pick their spots wisely

    It does not work that way...the gain for one group is the pain of another. As oil drops like this, the shale producers and general oil drillers and refiners are going to get hurt..and that is a big piece of this economy.

    Also our currency is getting super strong and that will hurt exports, and even though it might help foreign imports, that does not really weigh heavy on GDP.

    There is also no signs of wage growth, no inflation and to me the central banks are pumping our markets but that does not translate to actual growth.
     
    SashimiKid
    SashimiKid
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2009
    Posts: 2090
    Posted: Nov. 28, 2014 - 6:25 PM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    It does not work that way...the gain for one group is the pain of another. As oil drops like this, the shale producers and general oil drillers and refiners are going to get hurt..and that is a big piece of this economy.

    Also our currency is getting super strong and that will hurt exports, and even though it might help foreign imports, that does not really weigh heavy on GDP.

    There is also no signs of wage growth, no inflation and to me the central banks are pumping our markets but that does not translate to actual growth.

    Wall I believe it does work this way, the bigger shale producers make money at $45 barrel according to Continental Resources CEO and the little guys go out of business at first hiccup anyway... living in a state poorer than most I can tell you firsthand my business is up 10% from three months ago and its directly related to fuel prices and lower income people having more $$ to spend...in a way this is a pay raise for the people making under 30k/year as its an effective tax cut..Recessions are caused by high oil prices and recoveries are bolstered by the opposite imo
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    It does not work that way...the gain for one group is the pain of another. As oil drops like this, the shale producers and general oil drillers and refiners are going to get hurt..and that is a big piece of this economy.

    Also our currency is getting super strong and that will hurt exports, and even though it might help foreign imports, that does not really weigh heavy on GDP.

    There is also no signs of wage growth, no inflation and to me the central banks are pumping our markets but that does not translate to actual growth.

    Wall I believe it does work this way, the bigger shale producers make money at $45 barrel according to Continental Resources CEO and the little guys go out of business at first hiccup anyway... living in a state poorer than most I can tell you firsthand my business is up 10% from three months ago and its directly related to fuel prices and lower income people having more $$ to spend...in a way this is a pay raise for the people making under 30k/year as its an effective tax cut..Recessions are caused by high oil prices and recoveries are bolstered by the opposite imo
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Nov. 28, 2014 - 6:53 PM ET #10

    Have you looked at the balance sheets of most shale producers?

    The issue isnt gross margins..its debt service.

    I was browsing a few of the public companies and I was shocked at the debt levels...between 10-100 times debt to cash and the rates of these debt types is not low compared to AAA rated companies.

    Debt service is a huge issue and even if SOME are profitable on a gross profit bases at 65 (oil now) that does not leave much for debt service OR capital investment.

    The pain is showing...and OPEC is attempting to push out most shale producers, and so I think oil will keep going lower.
    Reply
    Have you looked at the balance sheets of most shale producers?

    The issue isnt gross margins..its debt service.

    I was browsing a few of the public companies and I was shocked at the debt levels...between 10-100 times debt to cash and the rates of these debt types is not low compared to AAA rated companies.

    Debt service is a huge issue and even if SOME are profitable on a gross profit bases at 65 (oil now) that does not leave much for debt service OR capital investment.

    The pain is showing...and OPEC is attempting to push out most shale producers, and so I think oil will keep going lower.
     
    SashimiKid
    SashimiKid
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2009
    Posts: 2090
    Posted: Nov. 28, 2014 - 7:23 PM ET #11

    Yes i have looked at debt levels as i bought into a few for short term plays roughly 12-15 months ago but this is no different from other startups in different fields which is why I said the lil guys will go bellyup at first hiccup while the healthier will pay their debts and be profitable...Back to our original point of contention how does lower fuel prices negatively affect the economy? Reduction in food prices due to lower fuel costs is another thing that will help the low/middle class make ends meet with a lil leftover for mama which probably means restaurants will see bolstered bottom lines. The list is endless compared to potential jobs lost in oil sector-----why does every thread fly off the rails?

    PS--everyone, including our own citizens, underestimate the prowess of American companies..finest in the world
    Reply
    Yes i have looked at debt levels as i bought into a few for short term plays roughly 12-15 months ago but this is no different from other startups in different fields which is why I said the lil guys will go bellyup at first hiccup while the healthier will pay their debts and be profitable...Back to our original point of contention how does lower fuel prices negatively affect the economy? Reduction in food prices due to lower fuel costs is another thing that will help the low/middle class make ends meet with a lil leftover for mama which probably means restaurants will see bolstered bottom lines. The list is endless compared to potential jobs lost in oil sector-----why does every thread fly off the rails?

    PS--everyone, including our own citizens, underestimate the prowess of American companies..finest in the world
     
    Fire_Control
    Fire_Control
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2009
    Posts: 922
    Posted: Nov. 28, 2014 - 10:32 PM ET #12

    Speaking of oil prices... Let's here your predictions for the next 6 months.

    I got bottom of 60-65. Bumpy ride up to 80 by next OPEC meeting.

    After the meeting, no idea.

    Reply

    Speaking of oil prices... Let's here your predictions for the next 6 months.

    I got bottom of 60-65. Bumpy ride up to 80 by next OPEC meeting.

    After the meeting, no idea.

     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Nov. 29, 2014 - 12:07 AM ET #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire_Control:

    Speaking of oil prices... Let's here your predictions for the next 6 months.

    I got bottom of 60-65. Bumpy ride up to 80 by next OPEC meeting.

    After the meeting, no idea.


    OPEC trying to crush shale production...I could see the 50's easy.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire_Control:

    Speaking of oil prices... Let's here your predictions for the next 6 months.

    I got bottom of 60-65. Bumpy ride up to 80 by next OPEC meeting.

    After the meeting, no idea.


    OPEC trying to crush shale production...I could see the 50's easy.
     
    Fire_Control
    Fire_Control
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2009
    Posts: 922
    Posted: Nov. 29, 2014 - 10:13 AM ET #14

    Is OPEC really trying to crush shale production or is this the excuse they are using to avoid saying they are trying to crush Russia.

    My view is that the USA eventually wants to take Russia business of supplying the EU with gas. It may take 10 years to get LNG projects set up and terminals built but this is their goal.

    If OPEC thinks this will slow down the US I have bad news for them.

    Reply

    Is OPEC really trying to crush shale production or is this the excuse they are using to avoid saying they are trying to crush Russia.

    My view is that the USA eventually wants to take Russia business of supplying the EU with gas. It may take 10 years to get LNG projects set up and terminals built but this is their goal.

    If OPEC thinks this will slow down the US I have bad news for them.

     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Nov. 29, 2014 - 10:17 AM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire_Control:

    Is OPEC really trying to crush shale production or is this the excuse they are using to avoid saying they are trying to crush Russia.

    My view is that the USA eventually wants to take Russia business of supplying the EU with gas. It may take 10 years to get LNG projects set up and terminals built but this is their goal.

    If OPEC thinks this will slow down the US I have bad news for them.


    Either way if oil goes into the 50's and sticks for 6 months it will mean a severe reduction in shale output.

    If Russia thinks OPEC is trying to crush them, look out for an attack..I would think Putin would go after a large member nation if he feels that is the plan.

    High yield debt service will crush more shale producers than you think even if the fringe producers exit, the bigger issue is credit markets. If even the stronger players lose access to the capital markets it will be game over for more companies than you think.

    I think shale production is destructive and not worth the damage and cost to the environment.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire_Control:

    Is OPEC really trying to crush shale production or is this the excuse they are using to avoid saying they are trying to crush Russia.

    My view is that the USA eventually wants to take Russia business of supplying the EU with gas. It may take 10 years to get LNG projects set up and terminals built but this is their goal.

    If OPEC thinks this will slow down the US I have bad news for them.


    Either way if oil goes into the 50's and sticks for 6 months it will mean a severe reduction in shale output.

    If Russia thinks OPEC is trying to crush them, look out for an attack..I would think Putin would go after a large member nation if he feels that is the plan.

    High yield debt service will crush more shale producers than you think even if the fringe producers exit, the bigger issue is credit markets. If even the stronger players lose access to the capital markets it will be game over for more companies than you think.

    I think shale production is destructive and not worth the damage and cost to the environment.
     
    Fire_Control
    Fire_Control
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2009
    Posts: 922
    Posted: Nov. 29, 2014 - 10:42 AM ET #16

    Putin is a bit crazy but I can't see him attacking a large member nation. 

    I can see your point about sustained low oil prices. It's all about how low it goes and how long it stays there. Time will tell I guess.

    Reply

    Putin is a bit crazy but I can't see him attacking a large member nation. 

    I can see your point about sustained low oil prices. It's all about how low it goes and how long it stays there. Time will tell I guess.

     
    SashimiKid
    SashimiKid
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2009
    Posts: 2090
    Posted: Dec. 10, 2014 - 3:59 PM ET #17

    TVIX up 19% today,,hope you bought some protection DR as it paid off today
    Reply
    TVIX up 19% today,,hope you bought some protection DR as it paid off today
     
    Rush51
    Rush51
    Covers Rehab
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2005
    Posts: 8856
    Posted: Dec. 13, 2014 - 2:16 AM ET #18

    The drop in oil prices should be a net positive for the U.S economy, as Sashimi eluded to .  Remember folks, 2/3 of the U.S. economy is based on consumer spending.  Sure the drillers will get hurt, but this should be more than offset by the extra money that consumers have in their wallets and spend.

    Those countries most effected by the drop in oil prices will be the emerging countries ;  (Russia, Venezuela, Mexico, Nigeria, Brazil, ...pick your least favorite Middle East country, etc.  ) you get the picture..... 

    Reply

    The drop in oil prices should be a net positive for the U.S economy, as Sashimi eluded to .  Remember folks, 2/3 of the U.S. economy is based on consumer spending.  Sure the drillers will get hurt, but this should be more than offset by the extra money that consumers have in their wallets and spend.

    Those countries most effected by the drop in oil prices will be the emerging countries ;  (Russia, Venezuela, Mexico, Nigeria, Brazil, ...pick your least favorite Middle East country, etc.  ) you get the picture..... 

     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Dec. 13, 2014 - 11:16 AM ET #19

    I think the net pain on the US economy from this drop in oil is MUCH larger than the 10 bucks more I might have from a tank of gas.

    The leverage created by the FED from corporate balance sheets, and in this case the energy field is starting to squeeze the credit markets the last few weeks.

    To me if the credit markets freeze up the damage will be very large, and that cost is exponentially greater than the savings on gas to the consumer.
    Reply
    I think the net pain on the US economy from this drop in oil is MUCH larger than the 10 bucks more I might have from a tank of gas.

    The leverage created by the FED from corporate balance sheets, and in this case the energy field is starting to squeeze the credit markets the last few weeks.

    To me if the credit markets freeze up the damage will be very large, and that cost is exponentially greater than the savings on gas to the consumer.
     
    SashimiKid
    SashimiKid
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2009
    Posts: 2090
    Posted: Dec. 13, 2014 - 2:04 PM ET #20

    It goes deeper than saving 10 bucks on a fillup....food will become a bit cheaper, items transported by big rigs will become cheaper as the fuel surcharges are lifted, airline tickets will drop dramatically,, blah blah blah. I could list a thousand things.....literally
    Reply
    It goes deeper than saving 10 bucks on a fillup....food will become a bit cheaper, items transported by big rigs will become cheaper as the fuel surcharges are lifted, airline tickets will drop dramatically,, blah blah blah. I could list a thousand things.....literally
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Dec. 13, 2014 - 2:27 PM ET #21

    Quote Originally Posted by SashimiKid:

    It goes deeper than saving 10 bucks on a fillup....food will become a bit cheaper, items transported by big rigs will become cheaper as the fuel surcharges are lifted, airline tickets will drop dramatically,, blah blah blah. I could list a thousand things.....literally

    I disagree about reduction in prices, I think the opposite. I think airlines will keep prices up and it will increase profits, I think corporate profits will be increased and the "savings" will not be passed on to the consumer to ANY serious degree.

    Also keep in mind many airlines are hedged for a year plus, so airlines that pre-buy (hedge) their fuel will not begin to benefit for a long period of time unless they buy off the hedge...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SashimiKid:

    It goes deeper than saving 10 bucks on a fillup....food will become a bit cheaper, items transported by big rigs will become cheaper as the fuel surcharges are lifted, airline tickets will drop dramatically,, blah blah blah. I could list a thousand things.....literally

    I disagree about reduction in prices, I think the opposite. I think airlines will keep prices up and it will increase profits, I think corporate profits will be increased and the "savings" will not be passed on to the consumer to ANY serious degree.

    Also keep in mind many airlines are hedged for a year plus, so airlines that pre-buy (hedge) their fuel will not begin to benefit for a long period of time unless they buy off the hedge...
     
    thorpe
    thorpe
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2002
    Posts: 12927
    Posted: Dec. 19, 2014 - 12:10 PM ET #22

    There are two recent times that the price of oil dropped.

    Late 2000s it went up a lot then dropped a lot , and the Dow lost 33%

    Early 80s it dropped, and stayed low until about 2000, and the Dow went up about 10 times between 82 and 99.


    Reply
    There are two recent times that the price of oil dropped.

    Late 2000s it went up a lot then dropped a lot , and the Dow lost 33%

    Early 80s it dropped, and stayed low until about 2000, and the Dow went up about 10 times between 82 and 99.


     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Dec. 19, 2014 - 12:45 PM ET #23

    Well bear markets now last 2-3 days and are reversed in 1 or 2 sessions..

    Reply
    Well bear markets now last 2-3 days and are reversed in 1 or 2 sessions..

     
    SashimiKid
    SashimiKid
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2009
    Posts: 2090
    Posted: Dec. 19, 2014 - 6:50 PM ET #24

    Earnings growth, low inflation, low interest rates make for a happy market
    Reply
    Earnings growth, low inflation, low interest rates make for a happy market
     
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Dec. 19, 2014 - 9:02 PM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by SashimiKid:

    Earnings growth, low inflation, low interest rates make for a happy market


    No earnings growth, its called float shrink via record corporate debt.

    Corporations have been floating massive levels of cheap debt, buying back the float to reduce the share count and artificially boost EPS...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SashimiKid:

    Earnings growth, low inflation, low interest rates make for a happy market


    No earnings growth, its called float shrink via record corporate debt.

    Corporations have been floating massive levels of cheap debt, buying back the float to reduce the share count and artificially boost EPS...
    All Forums | Investments

    Hot Forums IconHot Forum Topics

    • BEAT Your book 127,497
    • Tuesday 11/10/2026 340
    • I'm embarrassed for Trump supporters 63,590
    • NFL LOCKED IN! 113,701
    • Florida Man Tuesday 3,785
    • Week 11 Money 2,710
    • Trump's legacy? 37,167
    • $$ALL IN ( 2x5uNIT=1-O,5UnitUNDER=4-2,5Unit over=1-O,5Unit ATS=2-O,2Unit=4-o_ =+ 43 Units 4,047
    • Bags Tuesday LARGE **Michigan State vs Duke** 2,067
    • ::Tuesday:: 11/10 (34-15-0) +18.6 units 2,492

    Warning - External Link

    Report User

    Thank you for reporting
    This content is abusive or harmful
    This post is spam
    An error has occurred
    This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

    Delete Post

    Are you sure you would like to remove this post?

    Remove Thread

    Are you sure you would like to remove this thread?

    Scan Results

    Login/Register

    Happy to have you join the conversation. To do so, please login or create an account.
    Accounts are free and easy to create.

    Search


    Loading…

    Loading…

    About Us
    Contact Us
    Careers
    Our Team
    Brand
    Testimonials
    Betting Guides
    Sportsbook Reviews
    Betting News
    Podcasts
    Responsible Gambling
    Betting Sites
    US Betting Sites
    Canada Betting Sites
    Canada Casinos
    Best Betting Apps
    Contests
    Streak Survivor
    King of Covers
    Office Pools
    The Covers community has
    810,221
    lifetime members worldwide
    Join our community today
    Covers 30 Years Logo Established in 1995,
    Covers is the world
    leader in sports
    betting information.
    21+
    Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER
    Help Privacy Privacy Choices Terms of Service Cookies Sitemap Forum
    YouTube logo
    Facebook logo
    Twitter logo
    Instagram logo
    LinkedIn logo
    Google News logo
    Covers is verified safe by:
    Evalon Logo Logo GPWA Logo GDPR logo Logo GeoTrust logo Logo
    Covers Logo
    Copyright © 1995 - 2026 Genius Sports. All Rights Reserved.
    If you choose to make use of any information on this website including online sports betting services from any websites that may be featured on this website, we strongly recommend that you carefully check your local laws before doing so.It is your sole responsibility to understand your local laws and observe them strictly.Covers does not provide any advice or guidance as to the legality of online sports betting or other online gambling activities within your jurisdiction and you are responsible for complying with laws that are applicable to you in your relevant locality.Covers disclaims all liability associated with your use of this website and use of any information contained on it.As a condition of using this website, you agree to hold the owner of this website harmless from any claims arising from your use of any services on any third party website that may be featured by Covers.